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Old 01-02-2010, 06:19 PM   #41
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No, it doesn't matter.

Magicians still go to Hell, even if they're female.
Who made you judge over others? let him without sin cast the first stone.
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Old 01-02-2010, 07:24 PM   #42
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I recommend reading some Joseph Lisiewski: "Kabbalistic Handbook-for the Practising Magician". Don't let the title fool you, this is not a flakey new age cookbook style approach...

The book isn't specific to Enochian magic in order to keep the book short and sweet (handbook), but it is still very much applicable. Great place to begin laying a solid foundation of Kabbalah in regards to its application and analysis of Western Magic (Prepatory and magical practices, Invocation/Evocation, Planetary and Talismanic Magic, Elemental Magic, Zodiacal Magic, Enochian Magic, Sephirothic Magic, Divinatory Magic and Path Working Magic).

In my opinion, Lisiewki's theory of "subjective synthesis" that he presents in this book is the single most important factor in getting consistent positive results from your practises...it's what allows you to actually integrate your Magic into your sub-conciousness/conciousness rather than just jumping through the hoops blindly and hoping for the best. Hope that helps!
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Old 01-02-2010, 08:18 PM   #43
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If you want to get results do it yourself. You cant sit with a thumb up your arse waiting for somebody else to give you proof. You say it shouldn't be difficult so do it then

Typical answer. SUURE...I can SHOW you anything or provide any substantial proof...but just DO IT.


Maybe I like to see evidence before gambling with my SOUL...if the shit WORKS it should be very VERY easy to prove.
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Old 01-02-2010, 08:29 PM   #44
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Typical answer. SUURE...I can SHOW you anything or provide any substantial proof...but just DO IT.


Maybe I like to see evidence before gambling with my SOUL...if the shit WORKS it should be very VERY easy to prove.
So you want proof but want somebody else to put themself at risk? you are a spiritual coward. Nothing good is without some risk.

Personally I would not care about trying to prove anything to somebody like you. Gambling with your soul? the words of a blind man led by outdated, fear based dogmas.

What you seem to be saying is that if it did work you would be happy to gamble with your soul to be able to do such things.

Havent you considered the many factors that go to success in such things? no, you havent because your shallow, dull post just makes this plain. How do you know what should be very easy to prove when you haven't even tried it? its like saying that running a marathon is easy but being incapable of walking to the end of your street.

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Old 01-02-2010, 10:16 PM   #45
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So you want proof but want somebody else to put themself at risk? you are a spiritual coward. Nothing good is without some risk.

Personally I would not care about trying to prove anything to somebody like you. Gambling with your soul? the words of a blind man led by outdated, fear based dogmas.

What you seem to be saying is that if it did work you would be happy to gamble with your soul to be able to do such things.

Havent you considered the many factors that go to success in such things? no, you havent because your shallow, dull post just makes this plain. How do you know what should be very easy to prove when you haven't even tried it? its like saying that running a marathon is easy but being incapable of walking to the end of your street.
You sure are quick to insult arent you. Thats two posts in a row you've blatantly insulted me for merely asking for PROOF that this works.

The difference is that I'M not the one claiming this works. If I were the one claiming such things the burden of proof would be on ME...not on the one listening to me.

Any man can walk across the street and record himself doing so. I'm merely asking the same here.

Manifest something...anything. Get it on film and post it.
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Old 01-02-2010, 10:30 PM   #46
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You sure are quick to insult arent you. Thats two posts in a row you've blatantly insulted me for merely asking for PROOF that this works.

The difference is that I'M not the one claiming this works. If I were the one claiming such things the burden of proof would be on ME...not on the one listening to me.

Any man can walk across the street and record himself doing so. I'm merely asking the same here.

Manifest something...anything. Get it on film and post it.
Why should anybody prove anything to you when you are not interested

Why should laws that govern invisible energies obey the laws of the physical world, or be forced to act according to the will of people for the amusement of somebody who is merely curious? you also make the assuption that just because people are into such subject that they suddenly have vast power to manifest all sorts of materialisations. People have different degrees of success, some of them quite subtle so why do you presume that they can suddenly conjour up some physical object for the benefit of the camera? you are not interested in anything except trying to use a materialistic arguement to say it doesnt work. You think events that are generated in timeless areas of awareness are suddenly going to be restricted to a false time scale, measured by a clock?
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Old 01-02-2010, 11:57 PM   #47
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Why should anybody prove anything to you when you are not interested

Why should laws that govern invisible energies obey the laws of the physical world, or be forced to act according to the will of people for the amusement of somebody who is merely curious? you also make the assuption that just because people are into such subject that they suddenly have vast power to manifest all sorts of materialisations. People have different degrees of success, some of them quite subtle so why do you presume that they can suddenly conjour up some physical object for the benefit of the camera? you are not interested in anything except trying to use a materialistic arguement to say it doesnt work. You think events that are generated in timeless areas of awareness are suddenly going to be restricted to a false time scale, measured by a clock?
Im not interested? Surely I am or I wouldn't ask to see it. I don't wish to partake in demonology if thats what you mean. But that doesn't mean that I don't want to see proof in peoples claims that they can conjure. If it's THIER will to conjure so be it....prove it.

I don't want a materialistic argument. I've SEEN empty evil people that have gotten into the occult...people that were once warm. But thats still a personal decision.

All I'm saying is that this has been going on since time immemorial and it's about time...in THIS day in age for someone to prove it.
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Old 02-02-2010, 12:35 AM   #48
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I don't believe in rituals or specific rhyming spells to carry out certain invocations, you have to know it will work first then it will. I have made certain things happen, the only drawback is it happens when I am supremely angry and I mean furious. I once made lightning and I have witnesses to prove it.
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Old 02-02-2010, 02:06 AM   #49
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In short you're a Devil worshiper who has congress with demons, but tricks yourself into believing they're just aspects of your own mind.
I have a question for you Mr.alexc-

Do you think that understanding, learning and practicing your connection back to other aspects of our existence that we're not normally privy to (perhaps what you'd refer to as God's Kingdom, and his many mansions), in order to integrate their mechanics consciously into our current manifestation in the physical is...evil? From a Christian perspective, couldn't this be considered understanding and living by the Word of God, the Word being the behind the scenes mechanics of our reality, God's unseen hand? Is this not how Jesus would have performed his miracles?

Perhaps if you open up a little, you'll see that Magic and Christianity have many congruences; they're just 2 different viewpoints of the same big picture...which is true of the core of most religion and spirituality. Strip away dogmas and other misuses and you always find the same thing deep down. Another thing to consider is that any system of belief of practice can be used for good or bad, just look at what the Catholics have done with Christianity...they made a war machine out of it!
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Old 02-02-2010, 03:37 AM   #50
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In short you're a Devil worshiper who has congress with demons, but tricks yourself into believing they're just aspects of your own mind.
Multiple dimensions in which your soul takes on many diffrent forms is open to those who follow the Enochian traditions. Its these forms in which we gain awareness while astral projecting and we use these entities or aethyr's as vehicles to explore the realms of existence they dwell within. Plus what christians call possession is the same process but in reverse.

I worship no idol as heaven and hell are just a droplets from the same infinite source as is the devil and the god consciousness. Christians throughout the centuries used this system and it has been well documented yet they said it was never by choice blaming the holy spirit as the cause for there experiences. So anyone claming astral projection and Enochian magic is the work of the devil may want to ponder on this notion and the origins of there own belief system.
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Old 02-02-2010, 03:32 PM   #51
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Old 02-02-2010, 05:01 PM   #52
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Im not interested? Surely I am or I wouldn't ask to see it. I don't wish to partake in demonology if thats what you mean. But that doesn't mean that I don't want to see proof in peoples claims that they can conjure. If it's THIER will to conjure so be it....prove it.

I don't want a materialistic argument. I've SEEN empty evil people that have gotten into the occult...people that were once warm. But thats still a personal decision.

All I'm saying is that this has been going on since time immemorial and it's about time...in THIS day in age for someone to prove it.
There are evil people in every walk of life, people who turn nasty for one reason or another. You would seem to imply that they became nasty because of their involvement but maybe the fact is that they could not deal with the things that exist within themselves. I suppose you would prefer them to sit with you on the pews. Most people use the word occult in such a vague and sweeping manner that it does not offer any insight to what they are trying to say.

Who cares about conjouring anyway, it is considered pretty pointless anyway. Does a hypnotist not conjour an illusion before the eyes?
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Old 02-02-2010, 05:27 PM   #53
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There are evil people in every walk of life, people who turn nasty for one reason or another. You would seem to imply that they became nasty because of their involvement but maybe the fact is that they could not deal with the things that exist within themselves. I suppose you would prefer them to sit with you on the pews. Most people use the word occult in such a vague and sweeping manner that it does not offer any insight to what they are trying to say.

Who cares about conjouring anyway, it is considered pretty pointless anyway. Does a hypnotist not conjour an illusion before the eyes?
More insults? Trying to shame me and point me as a hypocrite. I don't sit on any pew. And you're REALLY reaching by saying that everyone on a pew can't handle whats inside themselves anyway.

I understand that the occult is vague. It's meant to be. Proof should still be easy to produce.
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Old 02-02-2010, 07:08 PM   #54
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Who cares about conjouring anyway, it is considered pretty pointless anyway. Does a hypnotist not conjour an illusion before the eyes?
Could you explain more about this, marpat? Is it that conjuration is not effective, or that its just illusionary to begin with?
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Old 02-02-2010, 07:23 PM   #55
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Could you explain more about this, marpat? Is it that conjuration is not effective, or that its just illusionary to begin with?
The effort required to produce a result far outweighs the benefits. If you got an angel to appear in the physicla world then they have to step down their vibrations to your level so you can perceive them, cutting them off from their source. It is far better to develop your own perception, learn to raise your own vibrations so that you can communicate more directly on a higher level and it takes less effort. Spiritual development is the goal and this is not going to be achieved if people are going to spend time trying to reduce the spiritual world to a material object.
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Old 02-02-2010, 07:25 PM   #56
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More insults? Trying to shame me and point me as a hypocrite. I don't sit on any pew. And you're REALLY reaching by saying that everyone on a pew can't handle whats inside themselves anyway.

I understand that the occult is vague. It's meant to be. Proof should still be easy to produce.
Why should proof be easy to produce? you keep saying this but are you an expert? on what basis do you make such a ridiculous claim?
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Old 04-02-2010, 08:53 PM   #57
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Why should proof be easy to produce? you keep saying this but are you an expert? on what basis do you make such a ridiculous claim?
I understand your concepts of Alchemy and vibration.

I'm saying that the idea is that you can use "magic" to force an "entity" be it good or evil to appear.

That is the idea and the statement made my many people. If it's true and can be done....lets see it. Film it already.
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Old 04-02-2010, 09:21 PM   #58
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I understand your concepts of Alchemy and vibration.

I'm saying that the idea is that you can use "magic" to force an "entity" be it good or evil to appear.

That is the idea and the statement made my many people. If it's true and can be done....lets see it. Film it already.
Personally I would not even be interested in trying to materialise an entity as I think there is no need to. I have never had an interest in that field nor ever tried to do such a thing. You are the one claiming it should be easy so why not manifest an angel?

If you understand the concept of vibration then why do you not understand the concept of materialisation, after all is it not just a matter of changing the vibration of something?
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Old 06-02-2010, 12:53 AM   #59
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Personally I would not even be interested in trying to materialise an entity as I think there is no need to. I have never had an interest in that field nor ever tried to do such a thing. You are the one claiming it should be easy so why not manifest an angel?

If you understand the concept of vibration then why do you not understand the concept of materialisation, after all is it not just a matter of changing the vibration of something?
Im not the one claiming that I can do such things. Like LuciferHorus here to claims to be the master of Solomons key and the entire Goatia.

And it IS funny how the occult never mentions summoning an angel just demons or what it claims are "neutral" entities.

Nor does the Church....because if the Church DID claim to be able to summon good angels at will people would be demanding it to back thier faith!
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Old 10-02-2010, 01:31 PM   #60
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Apart from the usual squabling, this is an interesting thead. Years ago I read Dions Fortunes the "mystical kabalah" and "Psychic self defence", and I still have the books somewhere in my boxes of books. Last year I listened to "Lon Milo Duquette" (sp?) on Red Ice (still there under the archives) and was interested enough to get his book on Enochian sex magick.

Havent read it yet but looks interesting.
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