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View Poll Results: Do you believe the claims?
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Old 20-06-2015, 01:35 AM   #18601
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Originally Posted by blackyblue View Post
Thanks.
Have read the thread from page 800 way back at beginning of May.
Your posts and research has been amazing.
Time consuming.
Argona was another one that done some amazing work, not seen her for 50 pages or so.
Quite incredible work though, thanks
thanks. I started off as a 'believer', having been on araya somas fb list after she was involved in the outing of the fraud kevin annett. she said she knew ella, and had inside info, which made me trust her somewhat. this and the childrens performances convinced me it was true, although i feel a bit embarassed to admit that i believed such nonsense now. it was only later that i listened with new ears at the coaching going on in the background. as i investigated further, and was challenged, here, eventually, i realised what a big con this whole thing has been, and of the level of the hoax, in all its complexity. agrona has been on here very recently. when we were on page together a couple of nights ago, a couple of people kept insinuating she and i are one and the same, so silly. but not as silly as believing in this hoax lol.

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Old 20-06-2015, 07:46 AM   #18602
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yes i am honestly saying that. as you can hear the coaching going on if you listen for it, which i am sure you aren't. oh, good thing we have some independent verification of this here with a secret recording: does this sound like coaching to you?

95. Towards the end of the recording there is a passage when the children and Mr Christie
are all shouting, excitedly, “Kill, kill, kill.” Mr Christie urges the children to “Say it…
Say it how they say it.” A. “Kill, kill, kill.” …. Mr Christie, “What’s the word that you
say?” A. “Kill.” Mr Christie, “Say it more for me. I want to hear it…. I like the sound
of it. Can you say it together, say it, let’s all say it together.” There is then repeated
chanting of the word “Kill” and a little later of the phrase, “Kill the baby.” Once more
Mr Christie urges the children on saying, “Let’s say it together. Let’s say it together.
Kill the baby.” And they do.
96. Mr Christie brings the discussion to a close saying that it is “a quarter past one” in
the morning. He makes clear that he is tired, adding, “Some of us have been working
on this for a month full-time....

https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-cont...arman-2015.pdf

the children did have knowledge of sexual details they should not know of. the police are still investigating the possibility of sexual abuse. but that could mean anyone. is it possible in the years ella was a single mother she left the children with other people?

You are approaching this from the point of view that the children are not telling the truth and are looking for inconsistencies and trying to trivialise any areas that can be interpreted in several ways. This is not how investigations are conducted and is unlawful in cases of abuse.
With regards to the 'Kill kill' chanting episode above, it is obvious that the children had learned that from somewhere else ( the cult) and when they repeated it to AC, it was so shocking in its unnaturalness that AC demonstrated it to the 'family copper' . In my eyes this is evidence that the cult exists.

Last edited by i_am; 20-06-2015 at 08:13 AM. Reason: What part of cut out the personal crap are you not getting?
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Old 20-06-2015, 08:02 AM   #18603
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If some people want to believe this story that is up to them, but the people who do not, why the constant verbal attacks?

Last edited by i_am; 20-06-2015 at 08:14 AM. Reason: It isn't
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Old 20-06-2015, 09:05 AM   #18604
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it was so shocking
...that he said he 'liked it'. very plausible.
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Old 20-06-2015, 09:25 AM   #18605
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You are approaching this from the point of view that the children are not telling the truth and are looking for inconsistencies and trying to trivialise any areas that can be interpreted in several ways. This is not how investigations are conducted and is unlawful in cases of abuse.
With regards to the 'Kill kill' chanting episode above, it is obvious that the children had learned that from somewhere else ( the cult) and when they repeated it to AC, it was so shocking in its unnaturalness that AC demonstrated it to the 'family copper' . In my eyes this is evidence that the cult exists.
We already went through this when I was challenged to find a plausible context for the chanting (#18591) . No counter argument for what triggered it has been proffered.

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Old 20-06-2015, 09:33 AM   #18606
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Originally Posted by boiow View Post
You are approaching this from the point of view that the children are not telling the truth and are looking for inconsistencies and trying to trivialise any areas that can be interpreted in several ways. This is not how investigations are conducted and is unlawful in cases of abuse.
With regards to the 'Kill kill' chanting episode above, it is obvious that the children had learned that from somewhere else ( the cult) and when they repeated it to AC, it was so shocking in its unnaturalness that AC demonstrated it to the 'family copper' . In my eyes this is evidence that the cult exists.
I like how you managed to reach a firm conclusion out of something that only 4 sentences earlier you believed could be interpreted in several ways.
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Old 20-06-2015, 09:35 AM   #18607
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I also think that the 'Satanic' label is something that has been applied by people like Keelan Balderson, and lots of people here - rather than the children.
It is possible that there are murders, blood drinking etc. and that there is a 'cult', but that it has nothing to do with a concept of 'Satan'.
But then, taking the 'Satanic' theme and sprinting with it, is so very handy to use to springboard to the 'Satanic Panic' denouncement, isn't it?
Well you're completely incorrect then Ponpon. The label "Satanic" was applied in titles to youtube re-uploads of the Morocco videos from the outset. Even a cursory look at the childrens' recitals and it's obvious that what they describe has zilch connection to Satanic ritual, not even close.
Why do you feel the need to take a cheap, misguided and wholly inaccurate shot at Keelan? Surely you know full well that the Satanic meme was picked up and run with by McKenzie's team? Ward's "JF" blog has been hammering on about this since it started. When Sands was flown in from the US this strange gang, including Belinda and Neelu, went to the estate of the Hellfire Club and had a "demon cleansing" ceremony.

Attacking a public critic of the fake "cult" campaign like Keelan (WideShut.co.uk), a well informed and impartial critic, reveals rather more about yourself Ponpon.
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Old 20-06-2015, 09:38 AM   #18608
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I like how you managed to reach a firm conclusion out of something that only 4 sentences earlier you believed could be interpreted in several ways.
....because the official narrative is trying to force us to look in the opposite direction? Away from RD and focus on AC? Some people resist manipulation and recognise it gives weight to the allegation of cover-up. Why bother otherwise?
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Old 20-06-2015, 09:49 AM   #18609
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Sorry mods for not keeping to the thread and making your lives harder. I will try and keep a lid on it in future.
Sorry
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Old 20-06-2015, 09:53 AM   #18610
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....because the official narrative is trying to force us to look in the opposite direction? Away from RD and focus on AC? Some people resist manipulation and recognise it gives weight to the allegation of cover-up. Why bother otherwise?
Susan has already gave a personal testimony that she was on the side of the believers at the beginning of this, which is good, she was concerned about abused children and wanted to get to the truth.
However she displayed a wonderful trait, and that trait being not to allow bias to get in the way of truth.
She was involved in the truth campaign but switched sides "not" out of naivety, but due to becoming aware of all the information.
I have read all the posts on this thread since page 750/800 and i can see that Susan and others are incredibally well informed and researched individuals that are "not" being biased and "do" know bothsides of the debate.
It is the very thing that made up "the hollie hoax team" which "was not" made up of a group of naive pranksters but was made up of an ex team of Brian Gerrish google hollie campaign believers that where probably the most well informed and well research group of individuals that the truth movement had regarding that subject at that time.
Therefor, i see no reason to believe that "anyone" is being "forced" to look the otherway.
Infact i get the impression that people like Susan and Argona/agrona could possibally enlighten some of your team/section with some facts that yous have left out in supporting your case.
Nobody that you are arguing/debating with on this thread is unaware of anything you know regarding this case.
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Old 20-06-2015, 10:10 AM   #18611
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Susan has already gave a personal testimony that she was on the side of the believers at the beginning of this, which is good, she was concerned about abused children and wanted to get to the truth.
However she displayed a wonderful trait, and that trait being not to allow bias to get in the way of truth.
She was involved in the truth campaign but switched sides "not" out of naivety, but due to becoming aware of all the information.
I have read all the posts on this thread since page 750/800 and i can see that Susan and others are incredibally well informed and researched individuals that are "not" being biased and "do" know bothsides of the debate.
It is the very thing that made up "the hollie hoax team" which "was not" made up of a group of naive pranksters but was made up of an ex team of Brian Gerrish google hollie campaign believers that where probably the most well informed and well research group of individuals that the truth movement had regarding that subject at that time.
Therefor, i see no reason to believe that "anyone" is being "forced" to look the otherway.
Infact i get the impression that people like Susan and Argona/agrona could possibally enlighten some of your team/section with some facts that yous have left out in supporting your case.
Nobody that you are arguing/debating with on this thread is unaware of anything you know regarding this case.
Yeah Silent revolution thought the same, which he stated in a past post.
There is a huge amount of info on this thread but there is also a fair bit of waffle to go through. Some people cannot go through all the posts. Who can blame them.
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Old 20-06-2015, 10:11 AM   #18612
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Well you're completely incorrect then Ponpon. The label "Satanic" was applied in titles to youtube re-uploads of the Morocco videos from the outset. Even a cursory look at the childrens' recitals and it's obvious that what they describe has zilch connection to Satanic ritual, not even close.
Why do you feel the need to take a cheap, misguided and wholly inaccurate shot at Keelan? Surely you know full well that the Satanic meme was picked up and run with by McKenzie's team? Ward's "JF" blog has been hammering on about this since it started. When Sands was flown in from the US this strange gang, including Belinda and Neelu, went to the estate of the Hellfire Club and had a "demon cleansing" ceremony.

Attacking a public critic of the fake "cult" campaign like Keelan (WideShut.co.uk), a well informed and impartial critic, reveals rather more about yourself Ponpon.
How do you know this? You are possibly basing your 'knowledge' on the Hollywood meme of hooded figures and burning candles placed in a pentagram. However, I am sure there are as many variations of practice of this heinous behaviour as there are participants. The term satanic (lower case s) is only an umbrella description for behaviour which involves sexual torture, ritual murders and organ harvesting. I think this case has all those elements. If you are of a religious persuasion it is feasible to conclude that such practices could only be committed under the influence of Satan and are therefore Satanic. This is why the group felt the need to hold a 'demon cleansing ceremony'. It is just a word but the practises are very real.
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Old 20-06-2015, 10:23 AM   #18613
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Yeah Silent revolution thought the same, which he stated in a past post.
There is a huge amount of info on this thread but there is also a fair bit of waffle to go through. Some people cannot go through all the posts. Who can blame them.
It is actually the most interesting thread i have read on the David Icke Forum.
However i cannot possibally read it from page 1, it would take weeks.
From page 750 there is plenty of information and opinion, and you get a good jist of what has been discussed earlier as much of it is "as pointed out by posters" repeats of what has been said earlier and much of it is replying to posts, posted earlier.

One thing i would like to pick up on, but slightly concerned about doing so, is a post from wewillwin2016 who posted a GIF by David Icke which was a "comment" about the judge.
However the article that this GIF links to is from anngirfan and right next to the article David Icke linked to, is an article from Angirfan attempting to rip David Icke's reputation to shreds.
I am not sure if David Icke is aware that the website he linked to, to support his view, is a website that supports the views of Corilla799
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Last edited by blackyblue; 20-06-2015 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 20-06-2015, 10:28 AM   #18614
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We already went through this when I was challenged to find a plausible context for the chanting (#18591) . No counter argument for what triggered it has been proffered.
what triggered it? delusion. a fixation with such things, remember the '666' barcode that made abe stop importing hemp seeds??? seeing things where there are none. delusion: an unshakable belief despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. that is what abe is suffering from, imo, with paranoia. that's what triggered this whole thing, a pre-existing fascination, delusion, paranoia. and that is what triggered the 'kill kill kill' stuff.

Abe the thug with 64 charges for violence, theft, fraud, including the abuse of his own children. The very thug that had just days before shoved a spoon into the flesh of the face of the 9 year old girl. Suddenly the leopard changes his spots and becomes master therapist, conducting an ad hoc therapy session right there, in the kitchen in front of a guest...it's time for me to shake my head at your explanation. i know you want to believe, but it is really an unbelievable suggestion.

for the record, and for the truth of the matter to which i am responding to here, ie the quote above, here are my answers to your proposal, from last night:

...good try, but, according (to) the transcript what you write... was not said.

it is more like a whipping up of the children into a frenzied, heightened, state of being that is happening, not some kind of quasi-therapeutic attempt at the lessening of trauma.

read the paragraph again: there is just too much chanting for it to be what you are implying:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...ostcount=18593

...and there is enough there to show yes it is too much chanting, for it to have ever have been an attempt to alleviate distress. it could only be reinforcing with that level of excitement and repeating going on....

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...ostcount=18598

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Old 20-06-2015, 10:34 AM   #18615
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Originally Posted by notbuyingit View Post
....because the official narrative is trying to force us to look in the opposite direction? Away from RD and focus on AC? Some people resist manipulation and recognise it gives weight to the allegation of cover-up. Why bother otherwise?
Trouble is, some of us were believing the "official version" before it was official. The officials were actually confirming the thoughts of those who doubted the veracity of these tales, not influencing them.

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Old 20-06-2015, 10:39 AM   #18616
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64 charges of violence.

Therefor certain people "on the side" of the children are campaigning for the children to be released and given back to a man that (a) has 64 charges of violence (b) would never be allowed a license to work with children (c) would never be applicable to adopt children (therefor could never be legally accepted as their legal guardian)

astonishing to find childs rights activists campaigning in the best interests of children for children to be re-united with a man of this calibre.

Not sure AC is even interested in the children.
Is it not the Mother he wants?

Does not strike me with his gelled slick black hair and bling as being a man that is overly interested in childrens welfare.
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Last edited by blackyblue; 20-06-2015 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 20-06-2015, 10:41 AM   #18617
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How do you know this?
Look impartially at what the children describe as ritualistic elements (sacrifice, dancing). See anything remotely resembling "Satanism" as described by La Vey, Crowley, Aquino or contemporary self-declared Satanists? Some of them have made videos.
Compare the two sets of ritualistic elements. What the children describe is more like a pastiche of voodoo that you might see in a Scooby Doo cartoon.
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Old 20-06-2015, 10:45 AM   #18618
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Originally Posted by blackyblue View Post
Susan has already gave a personal testimony that she was on the side of the believers at the beginning of this, which is good, she was concerned about abused children and wanted to get to the truth.
However she displayed a wonderful trait, and that trait being not to allow bias to get in the way of truth.
She was involved in the truth campaign but switched sides "not" out of naivety, but due to becoming aware of all the information.
I have read all the posts on this thread since page 750/800 and i can see that Susan and others are incredibally well informed and researched individuals that are "not" being biased and "do" know bothsides of the debate.
It is the very thing that made up "the hollie hoax team" which "was not" made up of a group of naive pranksters but was made up of an ex team of Brian Gerrish google hollie campaign believers that where probably the most well informed and well research group of individuals that the truth movement had regarding that subject at that time.
Therefor, i see no reason to believe that "anyone" is being "forced" to look the otherway.

Infact i get the impression that people like Susan and Argona/agrona could possibally enlighten some of your team/section with some facts that yous have left out in supporting your case.
Nobody that you are arguing/debating with on this thread is unaware of anything you know regarding this case.

There shouldn't BE any sides! None of us know the truth, which is why we are engaged in discussion: to share information and ideas. Susan's opinions make her no more knowledegeable than you, me or anyone else! Everyone here has an opinion and therefore is biased to some extent. It is how some choose to present their arguments that disclose their integrity and intelligence and make their arguments null and void in my opinion.

Last edited by notbuyingit; 20-06-2015 at 10:46 AM.
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Old 20-06-2015, 11:02 AM   #18619
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what triggered it? delusion. a fixation with such things, remember the '666' barcode that made abe stop importing hemp seeds??? seeing things where there are none. delusion: an unshakable belief despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. that is what abe is suffering from, imo, with paranoia. that's what triggered this whole thing, a pre-existing fascination, delusion, paranoia. and that is what triggered the 'kill kill kill' stuff.

Abe the thug with 64 charges for violence, theft, fraud, including the abuse of his own children. The very thug that had just days before shoved a spoon into the flesh of the face of the 9 year old girl. Suddenly the leopard changes his spots and becomes master therapist, conducting an ad hoc therapy session right there, in the kitchen in front of a guest...it's time for me to shake my head at your explanation. i know you want to believe, but it is really an unbelievable suggestion.

for the record, and for the truth of the matter to which i am responding to here, ie the quote above, here are my answers to your proposal, from last night:

...good try, but, according (to) the transcript what you write... was not said.

it is more like a whipping up of the children into a frenzied, heightened, state of being that is happening, not some kind of quasi-therapeutic attempt at the lessening of trauma.

read the paragraph again: there is just too much chanting for it to be what you are implying:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...ostcount=18593

...and there is enough there to show yes it is too much chanting, for it to have ever have been an attempt to alleviate distress. it could only be reinforcing with that level of excitement and repeating going on....

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...ostcount=18598
What don't you understand? I am asking you why do you think the chanting began during the discussion with Mr Y in the so called secret video recording? What actual words do you think precluded the chanting? Do you think AC stood up and said, in front of Mr Y, "Come on, you little buggers, let's give MR Y a few bars of that Kill the Baby song we've been practising. Altogether now....".
I thought not. Not even close because that would have been transcribed verbatim as damning evidence of coaching. The omission of context is disturbing and without it presents AC's behaviour as bizarre, which I think the emphasis on the words was designed to do.
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Old 20-06-2015, 11:13 AM   #18620
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What don't you understand? I am asking you why do you think the chanting began during the discussion with Mr Y in the so called secret video recording? What actual words do you think precluded the chanting? Do you think AC stood up and said, in front of Mr Y, "Come on, you little buggers, let's give MR Y a few bars of that Kill the Baby song we've been practising. Altogether now....".
I thought not. Not even close because that would have been transcribed verbatim as damning evidence of coaching. The omission of context is disturbing and without it presents AC's behaviour as bizarre, which I think the emphasis on the words was designed to do.
all already answered, so am not going to do so again. much. read my posts. you may have missed it but i covered all of your queries already. if you are willing to see it, it's already all there, eg:
Quote:
'It is unreasonable to expect the whole of the entire evidence presented to be transcribed here. it is the pertinent bits that have been picked out. if you are calling for a re-investigation, will you trust anyone to make a judgement for you?
...if all of the evidence, all of the transcripts of what happened in the two week fact finding hearing, were recorded, transcribed, how big a document do you think that might become? how many pages?

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