ANARCHISM ~ For Or Against

[h2pogo]

Originally Posted by grandmasterp

Syndicates work.
We join syndicates for mutual benefit, all the syndicate members have an equal voice.
Anarcho-syndicalism is common sense, hence it has never really caught on.
Anarcho-syndicalists believe that workers’ organizations — the organizations that struggle against the wage system, and which, in anarcho-syndicalist theory, will eventually form the basis of a new society — should be self-managing. They should not have bosses or "business agents"; rather, the workers alone should decide on that which affects them.

Note 'workers'. Anarcho- syndicalists believe in work whereas most anarchist groups comprise lazy feckers sitting on their erses and falling out with other anarchist groups after the fashion of the Judaean Popular front et al in Monty Python's Life of Brian.

Couldnt agree more..Only when people can think for them selves can this work..Problem is most people need to be told what to do.

[herzmeister]

yup, i don't believe pure anarcho-capitalism would be stable for long, and anarcho-communism doesn't scale, so the pure natural form of anarchism would resemble anarcho-syndicalism. There'd be independent worker collectives and free entrepreneurs. There'd be natural balance between cooperation and competition. It's not that there won't be any money, but there would be a multitude of value systems used for different purposes (online reputation systems, crypto-currencies, local currencies, barter items, PMs).

[vorwahr]

Originally Posted by bodycomputer

Out of interest, what would anarchy be a stepping stone to in your opinion? A new and refreshed government? If so how would you stop a new government from becoming power hungry as anarchists tend to see that any sort of government by its nature does everything it can to expand, meaning that 100 years down the line the same country would probably be in a similar position like the US is currently when their government was formed under the constitution which has subsequently failed to keep government under control.

NOt to any return to governace but to a socialist republic pure ,
No profit seeking no remnants of capitalist greed that has all but killed the spirit of this planet's people .

[bikerdruid]

Originally Posted by gremlin

I am still for that anarchy was invented for the idiots to shout and rave about getting rid of government's.

I agree with NON COMPLY with the governement and it's robots. No sides just be!

are you incapable of thinking for yourself?
why do you feel the need to be governed, if you are not going to comply anyway?

[pepsi78]

Originally Posted by bikerdruid

are you incapable of thinking for yourself?
why do you feel the need to be governed, if you are not going to comply anyway?

A form of government that you don't have to comply with, that is the idea, with lots of options that you can be part of.

Everything in the end must become autonomic and independent, economy and social structure where people participate of their own will.

I want to be part of this, I want to be part of that, then get out when they want to and do something else.

There is nothing of the sort, there is very little diversity where you live in a system that obligates you to be part of something that you may not want to.

[bodycomputer]

Originally Posted by vorwahr

NOt to any return to governace but to a socialist republic pure ,
No profit seeking no remnants of capitalist greed that has all but killed the spirit of this planet's people .

ok, I'll have to go and have a think about that as in my mind the word republic implies a government of sorts. You see I always see it as a scale going left to right as Monarchy, Oligarchy, Democracy, Republic, Anarchy. This to me is the true left and right political paradigm but they messed it up by sticking all the bad things they don't want to be associated with like the nazis on the right with anarchy. So today we are between oligarchy/democracy, but I view the left four as needing a government of some sort and as soon as you step out of anarchy you are back on the trail back towards the left.

You see for me my ideal society would be where anyone can have freedom without force and coercion, so if you had a group of people that wanted to go and create their own socialist community that would be fine as long as it were voluntary, but there needs to be some sort of trade between localities as different areas are able to produce different products, and the only way that can see that happening is with trade, but trade is capitalistic, unless both localities were under a single entity (which to me implies a government and back on that route towards where we are now).

[reverendjim]

Originally Posted by h2pogo

There was a split in the anarchist philosophy with the volentary cooperation and just co-operation, ie anarcho comunism and anarcho capitalism..Anarcho comunism worked in spain for a short while but the pesants backin the day didnt have many possesions/property..I cant see it working in the uk today..But Anarcho capitalism could work but the UK would needs to spititualy evolve a bit first..

I think the word 'propertry' and the royal estate(real estate) and titles that go with it will have to be redefined for what it is, also for it to work.

If you want to eradicate tyranny.
Anarchy is the only way.

and there is a sure way to screw anarchy....just add another unneeded ism.

capitalism and spirituality do not mix.for that matter, socialism is no better. on the one hand we have whats mine is mine and on the other we have whats yours is mine. believe it or not, there is another way. but humanity is nowhere near ready for it. until then i guess theres always stumbling about.

[vorwahr]

Originally Posted by bikerdruid

are you incapable of thinking for yourself?
why do you feel the need to be governed, if you are not going to comply anyway?

One of the many paradoxes I've come across amongst in my travels that .
A lot of people want change but don't know what it is they want changed
But mention an idea and youl get your ears snapped off .

It's like there's a limmit to what authority people are willing to accept these days
Which is indicative of anarchic socialist societies ,
people working together for each other's benifit instead of profits for elites .

[porridge]

Weve been given a great opportunity to take over government & corporations from the internet, but people are to lazy or dumb?

We could have our own syndicate like Ebay & our own banking system like Paypal...but wed rather give our money away to these corporate vampires instead.

Mankind prefers to be enslaved I guess.

[vorwahr]

Originally Posted by reverendjim

and there is a sure way to screw anarchy....just add another unneeded ism.

capitalism and spirituality do not mix.for that matter, socialism is no better. on the one hand we have whats mine is mine and on the other we have whats yours is mine. believe it or not, there is another way. but humanity is nowhere near ready for it. until then i guess theres always stumbling about.

But socialism isn't "whats yours is mine" at all that's
A scareongering capitalist myth , in socialist society if you steal you get punished
You don't get anything for free but its certainly esier to atain a comfortable lifestyle th. It is in a capitalist society where most of ypur financial efforts are steered towards your boss or the state .

[vorwahr]

Originally Posted by porridge

Weve been given a great opportunity to take over government & corporations from the internet, but people are to lazy or dumb?

We could have our own syndicate like Ebay & our own banking system like Paypal...but wed rather give our money away to these corporate vampires instead.

Mankind prefers to be enslaved I guess.

Pure capitalism outside of state control paradoxically must have some sort of state control guided no matter how loosely or racketeering takes over even with gov or state control it can't be ruled out .

Imagine you were stranded on. Dessert island with a group of people would the first objective
Be to invent a currencey the god job interveiws and setup a bank ?
Then why the fek do we use that principal worldwide ?

[vorwahr]

The other day Alex jones was tearing into obama over Syria ,
He went off on a tangent saying socialist obamacare had destroyed free helthcare in america
Free healthcare that was charity based .

Charity based healthcare and insurance based healthcare in America are shite
There's people in debt up to their eyeballs lying for cancer treatments and people relying on charity healthcare getting no treatment .

And you hear his fans saying oh thats right damm obama etc
they see it as black and white as its painted for them ,
Hoffa had to call his socialist unons teamsters ffs
And still got pulled up on commy allegations ,
not thy he didn't skim off some union dues to make a profit so he had a living wage .
The elites are dug in but they are down to the redoubts
Look beyound what your told and think society relies on
It's not guys in suits organising everything its people like us
Who are told we can't organise a piss up in a brewery because of our lack of knowledge on
Global markets and buisness acumen ,

Every secound someone does in this stinking world while the pill that could sve them sits on a shelf waiting to be bought ,
And people put a quid in a charity tin and vote for the political party that will save them two pence a week on tax .

[bodycomputer]

Originally Posted by vorwahr

Pure capitalism outside of state control paradoxically must have some sort of state control guided no matter how loosely or racketeering takes over even with gov or state control it can't be ruled out .

Imagine you were stranded on. Dessert island with a group of people would the first objective
Be to invent a currencey the god job interveiws and setup a bank ?
Then why the fek do we use that principal worldwide ?

I'd disagree with you about the pure capitalism needing state control.

I like your little desert island analogy and I think it is obvious that you wouldn't set up a currency because survival would come first, but once the basics are sorted out you would probably split tasks up among the group as to who could achieve those tasks the best. Eventually though disagreement will set in as one person would think that he is doing more work than the others, this can easily be solved within a small community through agreement. Unfortunately I don't think that this scales up and so bigger societies need to trade so those disagreements don't happen and the best way of doing that is through currency.

[porridge]

Originally Posted by vorwahr

Pure capitalism outside of state control paradoxically must have some sort of state control guided no matter how loosely or racketeering takes over even with gov or state control it can't be ruled out .

Imagine you were stranded on. Dessert island with a group of people would the first objective
Be to invent a currencey the god job interveiws and setup a bank ?
Then why the fek do we use that principal worldwide ?

Thats nothing to do with my comment.

We are being given an opportunity now! The best opportunity to remove corporate control on a level paying field, but no1 wants it or is too dumb to see it & prefers giving their cash away to private individuals.

End game is everyone in the country picking & packing for Amazon or Tesco.
Its the choice weve made too...we are enslaving ourselves through our own ignorance.

[bodycomputer]

Originally Posted by porridge

Weve been given a great opportunity to take over government & corporations from the internet, but people are to lazy or dumb?

We could have our own syndicate like Ebay & our own banking system like Paypal...but wed rather give our money away to these corporate vampires instead.

Mankind prefers to be enslaved I guess.

Yeah the internet is one of the greatest tools we have and a great opportunity. Have you looked into Bitcoin, because I am really excited about that and the prospects and the possibilities of what it could mean for society. That is our own Paypal in my opinion.

[vorwahr]

Originally Posted by porridge

Weve been given a great opportunity to take over government & corporations from the internet, but people are to lazy or dumb?

We could have our own syndicate like Ebay & our own banking system like Paypal...but wed rather give our money away to these corporate vampires instead.

Mankind prefers to be enslaved I guess.

Go on then start a syndication online ,
I give it six months or less before its integrated into capitalism
Via tax or fees .
there's a few sites around that are close to what you propose
But with no production Lines and delivery system and lack of servers and the tax laws in each country they are no more than secound hand shops online with some free stuff

you couldn't setup an eBay type thing now in the current system
Who the hell would supply you under the premise that profits were minimal or non Existent .

It's why I gave the obamacare example ,
Socialist systems can't operate within capitalism , capitalism was almost designed around inhibiting or preventing self help it is the epitomy of dependencey on gov or big buisness and if you cross it there's jail .

[vorwahr]

Originally Posted by bodycomputer

Yeah the internet is one of the greatest tools we have and a great opportunity. Have you looked into Bitcoin, because I am really excited about that and the prospects and the possibilities of what it could mean for society. That is our own Paypal in my opinion.

How do you get bitcoins ?

Oh hang on you buy them with normal cash lol
What use is that its like changing the Uk money to new polymer money it means fek all in reality
Let's trade in bitcoins I've a dog for sale 10 bitcoins
Oh you don't have any that's ok exchange real money for some here a xxxx blah blah for a small fee

[bodycomputer]

Originally Posted by vorwahr

How do you get bitcoins ?

You can either mine them with a computer (these days this requires investment of special hardware) or you can exchange them with government currencies

[vorwahr]

Originally Posted by bodycomputer

You can either mine them with a computer (these days this requires investment of special hardware) or you can exchange them with government currencies

Be cool if you could earn them by playing a game
or maybe its how shills are paid hahaha

[bodycomputer]

Originally Posted by vorwahr

Be cool if you could earn them by playing a game
or maybe its how shills are paid hahaha

You can earn them playing the game of capitalism