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Old 20-12-2012, 07:29 PM   #1
1ndividua1
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Default Genuine Question

Just so folk here know I'm asking a genuine question and not looking to start a war of sorts, I'll show my trail of (for want of a better word) of research.

First, I watched this video: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=230636

I stopped the video at around 9 minutes to see which book the guy was brandishing, and it was this book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/They-Say-You.../dp/1470932210

I'm happy with the above book, even though it's only 52 pages long.

But then I then did a bit more poking around and found this book:
The trouble, and the reason for my question, is the above book ('Freedom is More than a Seven Letter Word') has been slammed by a few reviewers on Amazon. The criticising reviews are here for those who care to read them:


Does anyone know about all this, about how the FMotL laws are unable to hold up in a court of law? I'm looking for a good book on the subject to arm and prepare myself, but I'm not too sure if the above 'Freedom is More than a Seven Letter Word' is a good choice.

Any advice would be welcome as I readily admit to being clueless about my rights. Which itself is shocking state to be in, in this day and age.

Thank you
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Old 20-12-2012, 07:54 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by 1ndividua1 View Post

Does anyone know about all this, about how the FMotL laws are unable to hold up in a court of law? I'm looking for a good book on the subject to arm and prepare myself, but I'm not too sure if the above 'Freedom is More than a Seven Letter Word' is a good choice.

Any advice would be welcome as I readily admit to being clueless about my rights. Which itself is shocking state to be in, in this day and age.

Thank you
I would say that those reviews are correct. FMOTL ideas are uniformly rejected by courts to which they are presented. FMOTL ideas about the law are little more than variations on a theme which have existed in the United States since the 1970s.

What you ought to read really depends on what it is that you want to know.

If you want to understand how what the law actually is and how the legal system actually works, then you should try to find an introductory text on the subject that discusses the jurisdiction in which you live. There is little point, for example, in reading an introduction to English Law if you live in America: while there is a common heritage there are many important differences. Beyond that it really does depends what areas of law you have an interest in and how deep you want to go. For example, if you're interested in jurisprudence, you could read HLA Hart's The Concept of Law (which is about as accessible as jurisprudence gets).

If you want to understand why fmotl arguments are wrong, a good starting place is this recent judgment from a Canadian court. It is rather long, but unusually comprehensive. Regarding the earlier incarnations of similar arguments in the US, this website discusses a few of them, with citations to the cases in which those arguments were rejected. Often you can find the arguments of individual freemen addressed in particular judgments, many of which are publicly available for free through services such as CANLII (for Canada) and BAILII (for the UK and Ireland).
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"Leaders of the Freeman-on-the-Land movement... teach a political theory based on a radical interpretation of social contract... For them, the social contract is not a primordial construct founding the legitimacy of government but an actual contract between an individual and the state…
This teaching is not only wrong in the sense that it is false. It is wrongful. That is, it is full of wrong."
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Old 20-12-2012, 08:12 PM   #3
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According to her website,

"IMPORTANT: The Lioness is not qualified to give legal advice; she does not give legal advice and will not enter into correspondence regarding any individulal (sic)legal problem. Information contained on this website is NOT a substitute for legal advice".

The most sensible thing she has to say.

Last edited by msbpunk; 20-12-2012 at 08:14 PM.
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Old 20-12-2012, 08:13 PM   #4
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Oh well, pretty much as you were then. Keep your nose clean and your head down.

Thanks for the advice

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Old 20-12-2012, 08:40 PM   #5
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Oh well, pretty much as you were then. Keep your nose clean and your head down.

Thanks for the advice
Standard fmotl procedure - charge for advice on law and court action, cover your arse with a disclaimer. If it all goes pear shaped, blame the punter.
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Old 20-12-2012, 09:25 PM   #6
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Default Free book on Common Law

Get free pdf copy of

Freedom is more than just a 7 letter word, by Veronica Chapman of The Chapman family

She is giving it away

just click on link

If you like it buy it.

http://freedownloadb.com/pdf/bfreedo...n-1982132.html


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Old 20-12-2012, 09:54 PM   #7
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Thanks for the link.
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Old 20-12-2012, 11:39 PM   #8
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Watch this vid, it goes with the free book should you ever need to flex your knowledge
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Old 20-12-2012, 11:44 PM   #9
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Thank you for the link...
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Old 20-12-2012, 11:58 PM   #10
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Standard fmotl procedure - charge for advice on law and court action, cover your arse with a disclaimer. If it all goes pear shaped, blame the punter.
Yet again we see the old tarring all with the one brush modem executed as fact.

While it may be some fotl procedure, it isn't by any means 'standard' - unless you can cite proof that it is, your assertion is just conjecture, surely?

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Old 21-12-2012, 12:36 AM   #11
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I've never ventured into this part of the forum so I am clueless but if FOTL doesn't work then why this section of the forum exists? Is this a sort of myth-tical law....are we dreaming of?
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Old 21-12-2012, 12:54 AM   #12
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I've never ventured into this part of the forum so I am clueless but if FOTL doesn't work then why this section of the forum exists? Is this a sort of myth-tical law....are we dreaming of?
Sometimes, when I'm feeling whimsical, I liken FMOTL to Through the Looking Glass. There is a strong element of fantasy running throughout but there are many juicy nuggets of undeniable truths, plenty of wtf's as well as blatant misinterpretations. My advice, if I may offer it up, is to not act on anything written on these or other forums without first verifying everything.

That being said, in whom do you trust? Promoters of this stuff? Gov't? Yourself?

Hopefully, the latter will suffice.
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Old 21-12-2012, 01:01 AM   #13
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That being said, in whom do you trust? Promoters of this stuff? Gov't? Yourself?

Hopefully, the latter will suffice.
good question.
menard et al are snake oil peddlers and are only in it for their profit.
i have never met or heard anyone who actually knew anything real.
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Old 21-12-2012, 01:01 AM   #14
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Thanks lesactive,
the 'promoter'... disinformation is not helpful

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Old 21-12-2012, 11:58 AM   #15
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The law is whatever the law makers say it is. Constitutions and oaths mean nothing. If there is any truth in FMOTL but it contradicts what the law makers want, it will be ruled as wrong even when it's right.
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Old 21-12-2012, 12:42 PM   #16
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The law is whatever the law makers say it is. Constitutions and oaths mean nothing. If there is any truth in FMOTL but it contradicts what the law makers want, it will be ruled as wrong even when it's right.
That's exactly what I think.

Doesn't matter what you tell them, if they have a stick, they're going to beat you down. Sure it isn't right, or lawful, or legal, or humane, but what are you going to do about it?

Best protection today is a mobile phone with a camera - and sites allowing you to upload abuses of power
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Old 21-12-2012, 12:51 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by 1ndividua1 View Post
That's exactly what I think.

Doesn't matter what you tell them, if they have a stick, they're going to beat you down. Sure it isn't right, or lawful, or legal, or humane, but what are you going to do about it?

Best protection today is a mobile phone with a camera - and sites allowing you to upload abuses of power
And only communicate with these people by e-mail so you have a record of what you and they say. And think before you act - never act when angry.
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Old 21-12-2012, 04:31 PM   #18
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And only communicate with these people by e-mail so you have a record of what you and they say. And think before you act - never act when angry.
I think I am reading "common sense".

It's so rare it's a superpower!

So rare it is sometimes refered to as uncommon sence.

peace
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1. Wake-Up: Recognize the deception; discover your contribution
2. Grow-Up: Be responsible; stop deceiving yourself and others
3. Energize Peace: Apply your energy to loving and peaceful pursuits

Everything is FIXED by virtue of Waking-Up!

Last edited by thinker2; 21-12-2012 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 21-12-2012, 06:18 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by thinker2 View Post
I think I am reading "common sense".

It's so rare it's a superpower!

So rare it is sometimes refered to as uncommon sence.

peace
I'm trying to make sense of your post, but it's lost on me. Could you elucidate perhaps?
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Old 21-12-2012, 06:20 PM   #20
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Yet again we see the old tarring all with the one brush modem executed as fact.

While it may be some fotl procedure, it isn't by any means 'standard' - unless you can cite proof that it is, your assertion is just conjecture, surely?

http://www.canadianlawyermag.com/436...e-problem.html

I'm sure you're familiar with this -

http://www2.albertacourts.ab.ca/jdb/...bqb0571ed1.pdf
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