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Old 04-12-2017, 11:20 PM   #1
greatestiam
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Default Is it honorable to force men or women to wear veils or any particular

Is it honorable to force men or women to wear veils or any particular garment?

I ask this question, because forcing people to do so, seems to go against the notions of freedom, liberty, equality and fraternity. It is an insult to our fiduciary duty to each other and is responsible for many honor killings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIvdqNU8rX4

In many countries, be it a religious, political or social custom; women and men are forced to wear particular garments;, veils hijabs, or beards are three examples of this.

Does this practice of using force go against our fiduciary duty to women and men?

The Golden Rules or some form of reciprocity exists in most religions and cultures.

No one likes to be forced to do anything, this is irrefutable. In some cultures, force is used to have men and women kowtow to the culture or religion. This is a poor and immoral ideology.

I believe that obliging or forcing people to submit to any political, social or religious norm, including forcing various apparel, --- without a just cause, --- is immoral.

Do you agree?

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Old 05-12-2017, 03:12 AM   #2
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I do not think it appropriate to force anyone to do anything or think anything or refrain from saying what they think.
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Old 05-12-2017, 05:41 AM   #3
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But when you ask this, you will usually get the obligatory responses that women enjoy wearing veils and that they aren't being forced.
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Old 05-12-2017, 07:13 AM   #4
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Is it honorable to force men or women to wear veils or any particular garment?
What a silly question ! ... of course it's only decent that women should be forced to cover themselves ...

Not men , they are not the trouble , it's loose women showing their hair , and sometimes even ankles ... it excites the men sexually , drives them insane with lust , then they forget to pray to allah 5 times a day...
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Old 05-12-2017, 09:04 AM   #5
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The idea was to take away or block attention so the people would focus on god and not lust. Women come to church all attractive and pretty no one thinks about god they just think about banging the babe in the front pew.

So to block attention from the big lure for most women, the hair, they wear a veil to aid the men that can't control themselves being the primitive reactive jerk offs that they are unable to control their own urges of course it's the women's fault and they should cover themselves so the immature men that cannot control their own biological urges don't lose control. It's always been the fault of the women of course not the men or their lack of discipline or self control.

In Catholic services it backfired. Veils became so fancy, so pretty and so attractive themselves that the Catholics for a time decided not to make the women wear veils because now the veils were distractions!

What the public really needs to do is tell the whimpy ass men in the world to grow the fuck up and get control of their own fucking urges and emotions and realize if you grope and molest a woman it's a crime you stupid ass and it's your fault not that of a woman just because she happens to be pretty.
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Old 05-12-2017, 09:58 AM   #6
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The idea was to take away or block attention so the people would focus on god and not lust. Women come to church ....
That's right , the "gods" at the root of christianity and islam are fairly powerful demonic leaches , feeding off the grovelling adoration of their idiot followers ... they don't want any competition ... "... for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God" Exodus 20:5

These demon gods jehovah and allah don't want followers giving their attention anywhere else .. no normal health interaction between the sexes...

Happily this sickness is coming to an end ... the cult of Thelema is moving in . No outside gods ... the only virtuous expression of worship is that directed towards ones sweetheart .... making love the tangible expression of this worship ...Yoga the path to perfecting ones performance.
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Old 05-12-2017, 01:00 PM   #7
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Aren't we all forced to like things? By reality? food. water. air. TV. Worse. We are put in a situation where we have no choice but to ACTUALLY like them without being forced.

Too deep? I often think evil is a satire on good. The elite watch our every mood. So does God. They are taking the piss.
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Old 05-12-2017, 01:55 PM   #8
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I do not think it appropriate to force anyone to do anything or think anything or refrain from saying what they think.
Every law forces us to do certain things. Laws are generally good.

You are not thinking that they are evil are you?

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Old 05-12-2017, 01:58 PM   #9
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But when you ask this, you will usually get the obligatory responses that women enjoy wearing veils and that they aren't being forced.
True, but that can be countered by the lack of religious text asking for the imposition of the various veils.

If women enjoyed their veils, so many Muslim women would not likely be fighting against that imposition.

Do you have a reply to my question now that I have dealt with your objection?

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Old 05-12-2017, 01:59 PM   #10
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What a silly question ! ... of course it's only decent that women should be forced to cover themselves ...

Not men , they are not the trouble , it's loose women showing their hair , and sometimes even ankles ... it excites the men sexually , drives them insane with lust , then they forget to pray to allah 5 times a day...
Humor is always good.

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Old 05-12-2017, 02:04 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by fudgetusk View Post
Aren't we all forced to like things? By reality? food. water. air. TV. Worse. We are put in a situation where we have no choice but to ACTUALLY like them without being forced.

Too deep? I often think evil is a satire on good. The elite watch our every mood. So does God. They are taking the piss.
We are indeed forced to do many things. Most have a just cause. The forced imposition of various wearing apparel for religious reasons does not have a just cause.

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Old 05-12-2017, 02:28 PM   #12
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I am the highest authority of my own consciousness. I would no more impose my consciousness upon others than I would allow others to impose their consciousness upon me. Religion abrigates this authority to an abstract and imposes abstract rules which no consciousness is in control of. Headless chickens!
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Old 05-12-2017, 02:30 PM   #13
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I am the highest authority of my own consciousness. I would no more impose my consciousness upon others than I would allow others to impose their consciousness upon me. Religion abrigates this authority to an abstract and imposes abstract rules which no consciousness is in control of. Headless chickens!
Atta boy.

Always good to see a thinking mind.

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Old 05-12-2017, 04:15 PM   #14
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True, but that can be countered by the lack of religious text asking for the imposition of the various veils.

If women enjoyed their veils, so many Muslim women would not likely be fighting against that imposition.

Do you have a reply to my question now that I have dealt with your objection?

Regards
DL
Does religious text mention modesty?

Who defines modesty?
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Old 05-12-2017, 04:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oz93666 View Post
What a silly question ! ... of course it's only decent that women should be forced to cover themselves ...

Not men , they are not the trouble , it's loose women showing their hair , and sometimes even ankles ... it excites the men sexually , drives them insane with lust , then they forget to pray to allah 5 times a day...
Really? Ankles?
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Old 05-12-2017, 05:27 PM   #16
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Quote:
Does religious text mention modesty?
Nothing comes to mind but I would imagine that many would.
Religions are supposed to be all about our spiritual situation but many stray from that into the political/physical world. Inappropriately in my view.

Censorship of that kind shows a lack of confidence in the population and suggests that they are too stupid to know what is appropriate social norms or not.

Quote:
Who defines modesty?
You and I and everyone else.

Modesty , like morals, is a subjective view that each of us will have our own opinion on.

Regards
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Old 05-12-2017, 07:17 PM   #17
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Really? Ankles?
It would take a jolly long veil to cover those, i should imagine !
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Old 05-12-2017, 07:23 PM   #18
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It all boils down to the same thing it always boils down to, money!
How? Turn guilt into income! Morality, modesty, these can be programmed into anyone over time with the proper lectures each mass. The confessional helps to allow the leader of the flock to better manage his income you see? I mean he'll tell you to better manage his flock but it's his income make no mistake but it's for the church of course, of course? But anyway, back to the logic, Lay the guilt on the people feel obligated to pay a little more when salvation is basically put up for sale. So lay on the guilt, make them pay, make them want to pay because they'll be forgiven! It's a tried and true method!
Scientology liked it so much they copied the idea but replaced the confessional with an e-meter to better know exactly what buttons to push and when to get their next direct deposit! All about money! Always money!
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Old 05-12-2017, 09:03 PM   #19
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...and even the algorithm is not excluded here interesting fact: the Vatican recently announced that less time can be spent in purgatory by following the Pope on Twitter.
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Old 06-12-2017, 01:50 AM   #20
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Every law forces us to do certain things. Laws are generally good.

You are not thinking that they are evil are you?
Yes I am ..Laws are the cause of all the trouble ...

Do what thou Will shall be the whole of the Law

This sounds like a nightmare to a chistian who believes humans are innately sinners ...born with original sin we need laws to keep our bestiality in check otherwise we'd all be raping and murdering ...

But evidence does not back this up. Where do we find rapists and child molesters ?? Among the chistian priests ... among the devout followers of islam ... both groups try to live under the laws of god ,cover their women , stay 'pure' and keep their minds off sex ... but this is repression and never works ... In addition these groups have swallowed the lie we need laws , so by implication we are lawless ... you become what you believe yourself to be ...

Thelema suggest we are all very fine , with built in decency and a desire to do good and get along with others ...

Human society will smoothly move into this world view , in the future there will be no laws or police ... perhaps not quite ready for this now , but it is our destiny as we become an advanced space travelling civilization.
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