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Old 28-12-2017, 09:31 PM   #41
surfer12
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@ surfer & cinder

sometimes the way I say things sounds drastic and final , bad habit of mine

when I said God is an invention of man used to back up his desires I didn't mean there is no god or no divine source

of course there is a creator , a divine , a source of all that is

I believe personally that we are energy first and matter second , no matter would exist without the energy infusing it and binding it together

but the reason I personally don't appreciate the Abrahamic religions is because of what they inspire

there are , without doubt , incredible insights into the human condition and our relationship with the creator in the works inspired from Abraham

what is the line '' ye shall know them by their fruits '' ?

little things like that , or Solomons '' there is nothing new under the sun ''

when it comes to the fruits line , we shall know them by their fruits , this to me is one of the ironies of ironies when it comes to Abrahamic beliefs

we shall know them by their fruits

we shall know them by their deeds not their words , but their actions

so how do they act these representatives of the abrahamic faiths ?

on an individual level it can produce great acts of kindness but as you said , the human condition plays a part and collectively the three branches of Abraham are rotten fruits

Namaste would be a good word to use here , because the spirit in me recognizes the spirit in you and I would no more make fun of that than I would of death

but the rest ? insisting that on the one hand corruption and an astro turf of lies covers the truth ?

what is the truth of the spirit ? that it is bound to a creator ? or part of an ever changing dance ?

is the creation also the destruction ? is it both ?

would it inspire to murder for the sake of what ?

cleansing ?

I just cannot see it like that

I think what we know as Abrahmic faith is the will of a creature , not the creator , to me the faiths of Abraham are the will of the creature and the desires of man together blocking the creator from inspiring us

I have noticed how far from love all three faiths take people while all three scream of love in competition

false Gods indeed , IMO Abraham was inspired by a creature be it energetic or physical , maybe a bit of both

it's interesting talking to you both , thank you for being you
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. From many years of research and from chatting and having debates with people from many different secret societies, I've come to understand that there is truth in the Abrahamic religion, which describes there being two seeds that emerged from the Fall of man. The seed of the woman (the sons of Adam) and the seed of the serpent (the sons of Cain). It's a huge subject, but over time, the seed of the serpent (the generational reptilian families which control the secretive societies that David Icke has researched) usurped and co-opted the Abrahamic faith and created three organised religions out of it, which we now know today as Judaism, Christianity and Islam. In addition to these three institutional religions, there is also the Pagan pantheon of gods, which also derives from this reptilian race. Because they were once divine, they have immense Divine knowledge which they use to deceive mankind. God punished the early Israelites for corrupting themselves with the serpent's seed and they were taken into captivity in Babylon. God did protect the Israelites because they carried the seed of the woman that would lead to Christ. When he arrived, there was no need for the Covenant of the Old Testament because Christ fulfilled that mission, and he introduced a new Covenant, which did not involve starting a new religion. 'The kingdom of God is within you and not in any building built by human hands', he said. The reptilian seed had him killed, thus fulfilling the first prophecy in the Bible.
"And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel." - Genesis 3:15
Although the reptilian seed managed to have Christ killed, from a spiritual perspective, the reptilian seed was only able to bruise Christ in the heal because physical death is not the end of life. The fulfilment of this prophecy will be completed when Christ crushes the serpent in the head, and the brain centre of reptilian NWO agenda will be destroyed. This why the secretive societies hate Christ so much.





"And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations..." - Revelation 20:1-3
As to why God or Christ will not act sooner, I've already explained this with the parable of the wheat and that tares.

But I think we are soon heading for the denouement.



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"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (TROUBLE FOR THE WICKED): I the Lord do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7
God is pure and does not approve of evil. The word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew does not mean evil in the moral sense. Contextually, when God speaks of creating evil, he is speaking of the calamities that he brings upon the enemies of his purpose.
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Old 28-12-2017, 10:30 PM   #42
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see it's this idea that the creator will sit in judgement that I find problematic

or that it would allow for such deviations in the first place as in the fallen ones being given dominion of the Earth

this all still relies on the premise that the Israealites are the chosen ones

I can't agree with that bit , that they were once the chosen tribes of the creator above all others

it makes it seem like they are our natural rulers under a creator and we should ultimately submit to their rule ?

or naturally the best , the most in tune , the tribes with the greatest connection to the creator

*edit* I find that hard to believe because IMO this raises the questions of rulers and subjects again and we end up with the conclusion that the Israelites are the chosen ones of the creator

special people deserving of special treatment ?

priest class , kingship , divine right to rule etc etc

sounds like if that will come , we have gone full circle and must begin the process of awakening the spirit of humanity again free from those constraints

maybe I'm being pedantic , I still appreciate the chance of a civil conversation and please keep in mind I am not trying to convince you of anything contrary to your understanding

I think we all have something to offer and we all have lots to learn so it's great to exchange thoughts freely without someone attempting to sit in judgement

thanks again
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Old 29-12-2017, 01:34 AM   #43
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I think man often uses the excuse that God does not exist so that he feels he can do whatever he likes and not have to account for any wrongdoings, but that's just my opinion.


Again this is only an opinion. It's not possible to know for a fact that there is no God.


cinder,

Where did you get the idea that Abraham killed his son? That's not what the book of Genesis says at all!
I have to look it all up bro. Might be a good time to re read. hehehe I didn't have the book beside. an the bibles I keep around these day'z. are not of my own faith purely. so I could be wrong. divine beaning human. n human error is always passable. n so divine human is next to IMPOSSABLE

T2 Did Sarah pull her gun shoot an then jump away, or did she Jump away pull here an then shoot.

Abraham killed his son. Abraham was ORDER to kill his son to prove his faith. At the very last second there is an intervention I think. I'll re-read over the next few days. Abraham often inspires me to produce some pretty fine material. an always worth the read.

that part of the story always reminded of a state pardon.

God Tells Abraham to Kill his Son
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_oQbQH1QdQ

Originally Posted by surfer12 View Post
I think man often uses the excuse that God does not exist so that he feels he can do whatever he likes and not have to account for any wrongdoings, but that's just my opinion.


I think man ALWAYS uses the excuse that God does not exist so that he feels he can do whatever he likes and not have to account for any wrongdoings, but that's just my opinion.


n tat thar is why I put ACCOUNTABILITY 1st in any government I deal with. IF there NOT ACCOUNTABLE I sure the FUCK am not. N I'll do as please because of, that lack of accountability. Step on who what ever I like kill who I want. UNTIL there is FULL accountability.

This NEXT year you see how far I am willing to go for that accountability.

an space u for get that until that accountability come FULLY in to play.

About protests. Protesting in summer is easy. Its like beaning bad any one can do it. Protesting in WINTER SHOWS COMMITMENT. like beaning GOOD not every one can do it.

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Old 29-12-2017, 11:08 AM   #44
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see it's this idea that the creator will sit in judgement that I find problematic
I don't find anything problematic about a creator who punishes injustice. I would find it very problematic, though, if a creator did not.

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Originally Posted by mranderson View Post
or that it would allow for such deviations in the first place as in the fallen ones being given dominion of the Earth
The creator also gave the gift of free will to angels. What greater gift could a creator give? Would you rather he created robots?

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this all still relies on the premise that the Israealites are the chosen ones

I can't agree with that bit , that they were once the chosen tribes of the creator above all others
No one is forcing you to agree to anything. Only God can say why he chose and protected a race (up to a certain point), but a clue is what I already explained that there are two types of humans on earth. The sons of Adam and the sons of Cain.

Humans who have no soul (G.I. Gurdjieff):
“A considerable percentage of the people we meet on the street are people who are empty inside, that is, they are actually already dead. It is fortunate for us that we do not see and do not know it. If we knew what a number of people are actually dead and what a number of these dead people govern our lives, we should go mad with horror.”
Bernhard Guenther has written an excellent article on the subject that's worth reading called, "Organic Portals – Soulless Humans". It doesn't take much working out to see that those following the transhumanist agenda are organic portals trying to reunite with matter and machine consciousness.

Organic Portals – Soulless Humans (Bernhard Guenther):

https://veilofreality.com/2011/04/18...ulless-humans/
These are interesting times. On one hand there are changes happening on a global scale that can’t really be ignored much longer. On the other hand the majority of the population seem to live their lives as if everything is just as it always is and always will be, locked in a tunnel vision of personal and material interest.

[...]

Some sources that talk about a Shift or Transformation occurring in our age also mention a “splitting” of humanity and that not everyone is going to wake up. The main reason for this can be found in a very interesting issue this planet faces and which has been written about in various esoteric teachings as well as transmitted through certain channelled material. It relates to two different “races” or “humanities” coexisting on earth, alike from the outside, but unlike in the inside.

[...]

Mouravieff is telling us that there were originally TWO races that evolved on the earth, and that these two races while being physically almost identical, were very different from a soul point of view. It seems that one had the potential to develop a sovereign and integral soul in this lifetime, while the other were as empty cylinders in comparison and were destined to wait another “turn of the wheel” or cosmic cycle. The adamic race is the race that suffered the Fall, which meant the breaking of the connection between the higher centers (giving access to higher knowing/awareness) and the lower centers (which govern physical existence), and which left adamic man in the same “playground” as pre-adamic man, effectively rendering us all OP’s until we learn how to develop the soul.

Basically, until adamic man starts to develop himself consciously through esoteric work, he is on the same level as pre-adamic man (Organic Portal), however he has the potential to develop a soul (activating the higher centers) through work and conscious efforts. Hence everyone is essentially an “Organic Portal” until the Awakening of the higher centers, which is only possible for adamic man.

[...]

This is a very important point. There is nothing “wrong” with Organic Portals or being an OP. They serve a specific function in the grand scheme of existence. They can’t be anything else but that.

[...]

It seems there are possibly 3 billion organic portals sharing the planet, that is, one out of two people on the planet may be effectively soul-less.

[...]

"The basic idea is that pre-Adamic human types basically have no “soul,” nor any possibility of growing one. This is certainly shocking, but there have been many recent scholarly discussions of this matter based on what seems to be clinical evidence that, indeed, there are human beings who are just “mechanical” and have no “inner” or “higher self” at all. Gurdjieff talked about this and so did Castaneda." (“The Secret History of the World” by Laura Knight-Jadczyk)

[...]

"These soulless humans simply don’t care what happens to another person. If another person is in pain or misery, they don’t know how to care. [...] The only pain they experience is “withdrawal” of “food” or comfort, or what they want. They are also masters of twisting perception of others so as to seem to be empathetic. But, in general, such actions are simply to retain control." (“The Secret History of the World” by Laura Knight-Jadczyk)

[...]

Consider this further. The DNA of these two races is so mixed that both can be found within the same families.

[...]

The principal role of the Organic Portal is now to prevent the genuine seeker from advancing along the Way.

This is clear when we look at the following:

* OPs collect soul energy from souled individuals.
* When one makes a commitment to the “work,” one comes under attack.
* This “attack” comes from those closest to you: family and friends.
* When someone is in the process of ‘growing’ and strengthening the soul, the Control System will seek to insert even more ‘units’ into that person’s life.”

[...]

Perhaps we are getting close to the answer, for the truth would seem to be that there is not and never has been a homogenous “we” (the human race) on the planet, “we” are not all alike, “we” do not see the world in the same way, “we” are not just a divided race, we are two different races.

It becomes clearer then why most “top scientists”, in their theories, do not consider the spiritual dimension, or quickly write off any “unconventional” theories. The OP scientist (and just how many OP scientists there are is discussed further below) has no notion whatsoever of “spirit” or of the existence of higher centres. They are incapable of experiencing these higher centres, and therefore their descriptions of the world are lacking them. And because they cannot experience them, they deny their existence for everyone, including for those who are capable of “seeing” what the OP is incapable of seeing. In a materialistic world, where Organic Portals are in their Natural Element, and Souled Beings are NOT, with Organic Portal science drawing the boundary between what is true and what is false, there is no place for the Higher realms. It is “false” compared with the self-evident “truth” of materialism as experienced at all levels by the OP.

[...]

Identifying Organic Portals

Cleckley is describing a person who is able to mimic the human personality, but who leaves the impression that something is not there. They have a personality structure which “functions in a manner apparently identical with that of normal, sane functioning” and yet when all is said and done, “we are dealing here not with a complete man at all but with something that suggests a subtly constructed reflex machine which can mimic the human personality perfectly” to the point that “no one who examines him in a clinical setting can point out in scientific or objective terms why, or how, he is not real.”

[...]

* They [organic portals] are “very efficient machines” and “The best ones cannot be discerned except by long and careful observation.”
* They steal energy from souled beings so as to emulate them.
* They make-up one-half of humanity.

[...]

Having come to the realization that there are 3 billion Organic Portals in the world, discussion at the Quantum Future School turned to “How do we identify them?” This is not easy, as their primary talent is that of imitation, of mimicry. As we saw in the section on where they fit in the Organic world, it is through imitation that they are able to begin the process of developing their own souls. This ability to mimic must therefore be an integral part of their character. To progress, they must be good at it.?? This implies that the “best” OPs will be the best mimics, the ones best able to mimic being “souled.”

However, the internal structure of the OP is missing the higher centres, having only the three lower centres which form the Personality, the “I” of the small “I”s, and the “I” of the body, and a sexual centre cut off from the other higher centres. A study of the following passage by Mouravieff gives indications on how a careful study of the inner dynamic of people can separate the “good seed” from the “tares”.

The adamic man who has even a vague consciousness of his real ‘I’ finds that this is a source of internal conflict that he cannot solve on a purely human plane. This conflict becomes more acute from the moment he actively enters esoteric work. It is then that he becomes weak and falls a prey to uncertainty, doubt, and mistrust towards himself, for the road that leads to Truth always passes through doubts.

[...]

So the first indication of an Organic Portal is a lack of “internal conflict and resulting doubt.” There are people who never doubt their thoughts or what they are told or what they have chosen to believe. No matter the circumstances, the failures or set-backs, these people are unassailed by self-questioning or questioning of the system.

[...]

Should we then be surprised that we live in a world which is more and more “mechanical,” which treats individuals as “units,” where “creativity” is the replication of existing ideas as in a production line, where “franchising” and “branding” are so important in the economic world?
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Originally Posted by mranderson View Post
it makes it seem like they are our natural rulers under a creator and we should ultimately submit to their rule ?

or naturally the best , the most in tune , the tribes with the greatest connection to the creator[

*edit* I find that hard to believe because IMO this raises the questions of rulers and subjects again and we end up with the conclusion that the Israelites are the chosen ones of the creator

special people deserving of special treatment ?

priest class , kingship , divine right to rule etc etc
Thanks for raising a valid point and I also shared your concerns, which is what led me to undertake a lot of research many years ago. What I learned was that God told Adam to look after the animals. He did not tell Adam he should lord and rule over other men. It's true the Israelites had kings, but they went against God's advice. The Israelites wanted a king because they saw that other nations had kings. God advised the Israelites that if they chose to have a king, then their king would exploit them, tax them, and send their sons to war. All of this happened, of course because the Israelites went against God's advice. The divine right to rule is a concept conceived od by the sons of Cain.

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Originally Posted by mranderson View Post
sounds like if that will come , we have gone full circle and must begin the process of awakening the spirit of humanity again free from those constraints
It's all well and good awakening humanity, but to what if one rejects the authority of a divine Will? David Icke is really struggling with that question and is very vague with his details about how these issues can be resolved, but I think his heart is in the right place and means well.

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Originally Posted by mranderson View Post
maybe I'm being pedantic , I still appreciate the chance of a civil conversation and please keep in mind I am not trying to convince you of anything contrary to your understanding

I think we all have something to offer and we all have lots to learn so it's great to exchange thoughts freely without someone attempting to sit in judgement

thanks again
Thank you for your thought provoking post. It's always worth coming back to these issues and re-examining them.
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"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (TROUBLE FOR THE WICKED): I the Lord do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7
God is pure and does not approve of evil. The word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew does not mean evil in the moral sense. Contextually, when God speaks of creating evil, he is speaking of the calamities that he brings upon the enemies of his purpose.
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Old 29-12-2017, 11:09 AM   #45
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I have to look it all up bro. Might be a good time to re read. hehehe I didn't have the book beside. an the bibles I keep around these day'z. are not of my own faith purely. so I could be wrong. divine beaning human. n human error is always passable. n so divine human is next to IMPOSSABLE

T2 Did Sarah pull her gun shoot an then jump away, or did she Jump away pull here an then shoot.

Abraham killed his son.
I can't find anywhere in Genesis that Abraham killed his son.

Thanks for the rest of the reply.
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"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (TROUBLE FOR THE WICKED): I the Lord do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7
God is pure and does not approve of evil. The word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew does not mean evil in the moral sense. Contextually, when God speaks of creating evil, he is speaking of the calamities that he brings upon the enemies of his purpose.
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Old 30-12-2017, 02:47 AM   #46
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Verse of the Day
[ Jesus Comforts His Disciples ] “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

John 14:1-3 NIV


yea he was told to do burnt offering Which was one the things Christ came to stop. Abraham did very much as he was TOLD. HE was a man who was DEALING with what we call angles. an so NO matter what the debate on him.

He him self would find him self in the darkest parts of hell dealing with them. he just simple man probably goat farmer. in very simple times. in primitive times.

In our time we call it survivalist times. for him its just another day. an he old in those times.

If you left the safety of a town. you were putting your life at risk. every square mile would be full of bandits. or small roving band of Merc's. trying to make them self's the law. Why because the LAW maker are not effected by the LAWS they are making the LAWS or the RULERS.

This what Lucifer words mean better rule on Earth. better to make the laws. then the mass's force to fallow them.

Genesis 22New International Version (NIV)
Abraham Tested
22 Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, “Abraham!”

“Here I am,” he replied.

2 Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.”

3 Early the next morning Abraham got up and loaded his donkey. He took with him two of his servants and his son Isaac. When he had cut enough wood for the burnt offering, he set out for the place God had told him about. 4 On the third day Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance. 5 He said to his servants, “Stay here with the donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship and then we will come back to you.”

6 Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and placed it on his son Isaac, and he himself carried the fire and the knife. As the two of them went on together, 7 Isaac spoke up and said to his father Abraham, “Father?”

“Yes, my son?” Abraham replied.

“The fire and wood are here,” Isaac said, “but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?”

8 Abraham answered, “God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son.” And the two of them went on together.

9 When they reached the place God had told him about, Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. 10 Then he reached out his hand and took the knife to slay his son. 11 But the angel of the Lord called out to him from heaven, “Abraham! Abraham!”

“Here I am,” he replied.

12 “Do not lay a hand on the boy,” he said. “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.”

13 Abraham looked up and there in a thicket he saw a ram[a] caught by its horns. He went over and took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son. 14 So Abraham called that place The Lord Will Provide. And to this day it is said, “On the mountain of the Lord it will be provided.”

15 The angel of the Lord called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16 and said, “I swear by myself, declares the Lord, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, 18 and through your offspring[b] all nations on earth will be blessed,[c] because you have obeyed me.”

19 Then Abraham returned to his servants, and they set off together for Beersheba. And Abraham stayed in Beersheba.

Nahor’s Sons
20 Some time later Abraham was told, “Milkah is also a mother; she has borne sons to your brother Nahor: 21 Uz the firstborn, Buz his brother, Kemuel (the father of Aram), 22 Kesed, Hazo, Pildash, Jidlaph and Bethuel.” 23 Bethuel became the father of Rebekah. Milkah bore these eight sons to Abraham’s brother Nahor. 24 His concubine, whose name was Reumah, also had sons: Tebah, Gaham, Tahash and Maakah.

It a good story

I'm luck to live in a nation like Canada where the laws GENERALLY apply to every one. all it takes is the right piece of logic. an things will change. If there a problem with a part of the government. It can n HAS been removed. TESTED. Canada still suffer's from transparency. hidden agendas. profiteering from DEATH n WARS. By supplying material that can be USED for war. These people I like arrested an JAILED for mass murder an he promotion of MASS MURDER. This would include CANADA's last LEADERSHIP. who have try to sell Canada uranium. To people that would use it against there own. India

In Canada I can not sell a firearm. If I had 100 Shot guns an I put them up for sale I would be arrested. an Should be the very same way for the highest LEVELS of my government. In-fact it should be 1,000 x more harsh to sell those 100 shot guns for them. because they claim to be HONORABLE. because they hold a place of trust. so it should far worst for leader ship. then the common person

The burnt offering brings the death of a lamb. By god placing Abraham in this possession in these time's place's Abraham to make a harshest of choices. Do I fallow GODS command if there WRONG. do FALLOW history Aztec ideology ; human offered to the God's. Which's was his pass. Killing humans for the gods in those times was common

you read this u say wow this is harsh what Abraham is planing to do. but its happen on the street corner of his town day to day All over the world in these times.

reply

No

And What dose God learn about humans of this time. If Abraham killed his son we have not changed. but if he dose not even in the FACE of his God. Man kind has started to progress by the dogma of the bible in just 2000 years Christ would show up ending it by the last supper. Christ has been shown to be a AO.

Skys
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Old 30-12-2017, 03:32 AM   #47
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Kewl stuff the bible no wonder they trying to killm

Wouldn't want u to learn how to be moral. you would stop killing each other. Why pretty soon you would stop point out our differences an see what we all have in common

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Old 30-12-2017, 01:21 PM   #48
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Kewl stuff the bible no wonder they trying to killm

Wouldn't want u to learn how to be moral. you would stop killing each other. Why pretty soon you would stop point out our differences an see what we all have in common

Skys
cinder,

I still can't find the verse where Abraham killed his son. I'm sure God told him not to do it and a Ram was sacrificed instead. Interesting comments you made about Abraham probably being a simple goat farmer living in a hostile and tough environment. A good reminder that may figures in the OT were not saints or superhuman people.
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"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (TROUBLE FOR THE WICKED): I the Lord do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7
God is pure and does not approve of evil. The word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew does not mean evil in the moral sense. Contextually, when God speaks of creating evil, he is speaking of the calamities that he brings upon the enemies of his purpose.
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Old 30-12-2017, 09:58 PM   #49
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revisiting Abraham from a historical point of view Genesis says he was from Ur

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Ur was the principal center of worship of the Sumerian moon god Nanna and of his Babylonian equivalent Sin. The massive ziggurat of this deity, one of the best preserved in Iraq, stands about 21 m (about 70 ft) above the desert. The biblical name, Ur of the Chaldees, refers to the Chaldeans, who settled in the area about 900 BC. The Book of Genesis (see 11:27-32) describes Ur as the starting point of the migration westward to Palestine of the family of Abraham about 1900 BC.
from http://history-world.org/ur.htm

I know some people cannot take Sitchin seriously , but I believe some of his work stands up especially the geographical locations of where Sumeria was located and the surrounding areas

So Abraham it seems was Sumerian and the City of Ur was dedicated to the Moon Goddess Nanna and the Babylonian counterpart Sin.

The reason I bring this up is because IMO there is a link , albeit it difficult to prove between Sumer and the later Abrahamic religions.

In fact it's not at all difficult to prove when we get access to Enuma Elish , or the seven tablets of creation ( known as Enuma Elish because those are the first words )

IMO it's in that earlier period where it's possible to get a glimpse of who Abraham was and what might have motivated him in his time.

Anyway , that's one of the reasons I can't accept that Abrahams God is the true creator and his people the only chosen ones of this same God.

I find it difficult to believe the one and only '' God '' emerged from Sumerian lore

I can believe A god emerged from that , but not THE god

and all writing from that time and since is the writing of man IMO , not the creator itself

but that's just my skepticism and I don't want it to appear as though the spiritual messages given are entirely invalid due to my silly opinion

far from it there are still great things to be gleaned from those texts

but I don't think they can be taken so seriously without understanding where Abraham was from and what was going on at that time

IMO he was far from a simple goat herder type and may even have been IMO a messenger sent from one of the ''gods'' of sumer to branch out and begin again

but like I said please don't take that as trying to undermine your beliefs or the spiritual messages you have all ready gleaned

I am just posing the suggestion that perhaps Abrahams idea of God is very different to todays idea of God

perhaps to Abraham his God was none other than EL , which does make it into the original Hebrew versions of Genesis does it not ?
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Old 30-12-2017, 11:58 PM   #50
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revisiting Abraham from a historical point of view Genesis says he was from Ur

from http://history-world.org/ur.htm

I know some people cannot take Sitchin seriously , but I believe some of his work stands up especially the geographical locations of where Sumeria was located and the surrounding areas

So Abraham it seems was Sumerian and the City of Ur was dedicated to the Moon Goddess Nanna and the Babylonian counterpart Sin.

The reason I bring this up is because IMO there is a link , albeit it difficult to prove between Sumer and the later Abrahamic religions.

In fact it's not at all difficult to prove when we get access to Enuma Elish , or the seven tablets of creation ( known as Enuma Elish because those are the first words )

IMO it's in that earlier period where it's possible to get a glimpse of who Abraham was and what might have motivated him in his time.

Anyway , that's one of the reasons I can't accept that Abrahams God is the true creator and his people the only chosen ones of this same God.

I find it difficult to believe the one and only '' God '' emerged from Sumerian lore

I can believe A god emerged from that , but not THE god

and all writing from that time and since is the writing of man IMO , not the creator itself

but that's just my skepticism and I don't want it to appear as though the spiritual messages given are entirely invalid due to my silly opinion

far from it there are still great things to be gleaned from those texts

but I don't think they can be taken so seriously without understanding where Abraham was from and what was going on at that time

IMO he was far from a simple goat herder type and may even have been IMO a messenger sent from one of the ''gods'' of sumer to branch out and begin again

but like I said please don't take that as trying to undermine your beliefs or the spiritual messages you have all ready gleaned

I am just posing the suggestion that perhaps Abrahams idea of God is very different to todays idea of God

perhaps to Abraham his God was none other than EL , which does make it into the original Hebrew versions of Genesis does it not ?
It's true, serious scholars don't take Sitchin seriously, so I don't buy his claims.

Regarding the "chosen ones", as I explained, they were chosen in the sense of not descending from the Sons of Cain, the reptilian bloodline. Therefore, I don't see them as being "chosen" in the same way as you're trying to see them. They weren't "chosen" without a reason. If they were chosen for no good reason, I would entirely agree with your feelings and resent this status that God had given them. It's all well and good dismissing the interesting insight about the two seeds, the seed of Adam and the seed of the reptiian Serpent (the sons of Cain, and you do realise the Freemasons are known as the Sons of Cain... how do you explain that in your wider scheme of things?), as you do, but then you're left with no context for how the reptilian generational elite that David Icke has vastly researched, fits into the bigger picture. David Icke acknowledges the existence of this elite, but he has very little idea of who exactly the rest of humanity are and how they fit in with the overall plan of evolutionary creation, and how we can be saved from the other dimensional reptilians, the matrix they have created, and their NWO agenda. The Bible, on the other hand, gives a very plausible explanation and fits in with the findings of mystics, such as Boris Mouravieff and George Gurdjieff, who both spoke extensively about humans with souls and humans with no souls. IMO, this is the reality of the planet we live in and at the end of the Apocalypse, which we're now living through, "one will be taken and one will be left".

Regarding the reptilian NWO agenda, it stands to reason that man alone cannot win any battle against spiritual wickedness in high places, and a non-physical enemy. The only manner in which man can survive such a battle is if there are more powerful other-dimensional beings than the reptilian other dimensional race. The Bible gives an incredible amount of information about how these other dimensional reptilian beings will be defeated by God and his Divine Beings. It's no wonder the only teachings the secretive societies, like Freemasonry, are hostile to, are those teachings from the Bible. They constantly try and undermine Jesus as the Son of God and they do nothing about exposing the reptilian agenda. They only pay lip service the Bible in order to cover and conceal what they really believe in. For me, this is all evidence that the teachings of the Bible are true, and that things are unfolding just as Christ and the Prophets predicted they would. There are so many so-called Pagan Christs, and elite Freemasons are proud to embrace them all, but the only one they can't abide is Jesus the Son of God. I know which one I'm going with, and it's not the ones that Freemasonry wants to designate for me! LOL!

You wrote:

"I am just posing the suggestion that perhaps Abrahams idea of God is very different to todays idea of God"

Depends what you mean by "whose idea". Not everyone agrees with your idea (and the ideas of others) that we have a different understanding of God today than what Abraham understood.

You wrote:

"perhaps to Abraham his God was none other than EL, which does make it into the original Hebrew versions of Genesis does it not ?"

I don't accept this is the case because "El" is a non-specific term, it's not a personal name, it's just a title. So in order to understand what "El" means one has to look at the context it's used in, and in the context of the Bible, God is very clear and consistent about who he is, for example:
"Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me." Isaiah 43:10

"I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me." Isaiah 44:6

"Is there a God besides Me? Indeed there is no other Rock; I know not one." - Isaiah 44:8

"I am the LORD, and there is no other; There is no God besides Me." - Isaiah 45:5

"And there is no other; There is no other God." - Isaiah 45:14

"I am Yahweh, and there is none else." - Isaiah 45:18

"And there is no other God besides Me, A just God and a Savior; There is none besides Me." - Isaiah 45:21

"For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me." - Isaiah 46:9
I've read a lot of your posts. I've noticed you haven’t tried to communicate a bigger picture, but if you do have one, and I missed it, please do present it. For example, what do you think the purpose is for humanity? How do you think the other-dimensional Reptilian problem can be solved? How can humanity realistically win against AI and the NWO agenda? If you don't have any dot-connecting ideas now, that's fine too! There's always the possibility you may have a realisation in the future, and if that changes the world for the better, great, I'd be all for that!

Please don't take any of this as an attempt to force you what to believe and neither am I trying to undermine any personal beliefs you may have. For me, this is all in the spirit of healthy debate.
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"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (TROUBLE FOR THE WICKED): I the Lord do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7
God is pure and does not approve of evil. The word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew does not mean evil in the moral sense. Contextually, when God speaks of creating evil, he is speaking of the calamities that he brings upon the enemies of his purpose.
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Old 31-12-2017, 03:23 AM   #51
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cinder,

I still can't find the verse where Abraham killed his son. I'm sure God told him not to do it and a Ram was sacrificed instead. Interesting comments you made about Abraham probably being a simple goat farmer living in a hostile and tough environment. A good reminder that may figures in the OT were not saints or superhuman people.
But god can not talk to any one. So he would had to send an angle to Abraham. Of all the things I show @ any time has GOD spoke as a human. No he has not. but has made his mind n line of thinking KNOWN and really very very clear.

In our time we can't get passed the disillusionment of religion. because the people who made the construct. have fail to conclusively gather there facts. They choose to hide the more unseemly parts. Change a angel for GOD him self. pretty soon people get smart enough to know. Used it to gain what we call power. Used it to propagate mass murder. Used it to CONTROL the uneducated mass's.

Well that just dose not make sense.

But what dose make sense is he reading the world around him an trying to make sense of it all


Genesis 22New International Version (NIV)

well there is in modern text for enjoy my Brothra

I'm off to play sum Hellion an Walk my pupyz
Skys
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Old 31-12-2017, 08:14 AM   #52
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Please don't take any of this as an attempt to force you what to believe and neither am I trying to undermine any personal beliefs you may have. For me, this is all in the spirit of healthy debate.
^ Same here ^

The reason I point to Abraham is because he or ze is the root of the entire three part Saga no ?

So in the wider context of that time as we are starting to understand it , he or the movement he was with came from Ur in Sumeria around the time shortly before Ur went into decline.

So that's why I wonder what is going on with that area at that time ?

God or EL , just plain old God with a capital G , chose Abraham to be the line that would what ? Leave Ur and beget until his hearts content until ....... Rule the earth ? Go to heaven ? It's just ................ is that how the creation dances ? Is that just it ? All else is folly ? Nothing and nobody else can provide a tangible connection to the creator ? creatrix ? :/

But again in a wider context look at the iconography of the time of Sumeria and look at what the three branches of Abraham offer as visual aids , objects of focus. It's very , very similar to everything that survives to this day isn't it ?

All belief structures need their symbols , their iconography as a means of standing the test of time by attaching allegory and hidden meaning.

All three branches of Abraham have produced the desire for ultimate reunion with their deity and all three are at the expense of others in some horrific way.

Who has considered that Abraham is a continuation , a movement , an entire mystery school that left Ur ? Not a goat herder , a simple wandering man of little means.

Look at the symbols of Abraham's legacy they are all from a time once thought long buried in the dunes and look at how each branch still uses those long forgotten objects of focus to weave it's spell

And alongside this comes the mystery schools hidden in plain sight with one hand tucked in the lapel of their jacket , flowers and fractals , sacred geometry , astronomy and astrology also playing an immense part in each branch for different reasons of course - it's a mystery school ( nobody is really supposed to know wtf is going on )

And surprisingly or un surprisingly, with such humble figure heads each branch is rolling in gold at the top and gives out these dreams of one day winning a ticket to see God and everyone else going to suffer because they didn't do the things that were said by people who didn't do the things other people said ? it's a bit .......
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Old 31-12-2017, 01:45 PM   #53
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^ Same here ^

The reason I point to Abraham is because he or ze is the root of the entire three part Saga no ?

So in the wider context of that time as we are starting to understand it , he or the movement he was with came from Ur in Sumeria around the time shortly before Ur went into decline.

So that's why I wonder what is going on with that area at that time ?

God or EL , just plain old God with a capital G , chose Abraham to be the line that would what ? Leave Ur and beget until his hearts content until ....... Rule the earth ? Go to heaven ? It's just ................ is that how the creation dances ? Is that just it ? All else is folly ? Nothing and nobody else can provide a tangible connection to the creator ? creatrix ? :/

But again in a wider context look at the iconography of the time of Sumeria and look at what the three branches of Abraham offer as visual aids , objects of focus. It's very , very similar to everything that survives to this day isn't it ?

All belief structures need their symbols , their iconography as a means of standing the test of time by attaching allegory and hidden meaning.

All three branches of Abraham have produced the desire for ultimate reunion with their deity and all three are at the expense of others in some horrific way.

Who has considered that Abraham is a continuation , a movement , an entire mystery school that left Ur ? Not a goat herder , a simple wandering man of little means.

Look at the symbols of Abraham's legacy they are all from a time once thought long buried in the dunes and look at how each branch still uses those long forgotten objects of focus to weave it's spell

And alongside this comes the mystery schools hidden in plain sight with one hand tucked in the lapel of their jacket , flowers and fractals , sacred geometry , astronomy and astrology also playing an immense part in each branch for different reasons of course - it's a mystery school ( nobody is really supposed to know wtf is going on )

And surprisingly or un surprisingly, with such humble figure heads each branch is rolling in gold at the top and gives out these dreams of one day winning a ticket to see God and everyone else going to suffer because they didn't do the things that were said by people who didn't do the things other people said ? it's a bit .......
You asked, is not Abraham the root of the entire three-part saga?

My research has led me to the understanding that he's not the root of the entire three-part saga.

What I've discovered is that the root of the entire thrre-part saga has its roots in the Divine, in a place that is not of this world.

Humanity is part of this Divine reality, but separated from it on order to evolve in the world of matter. If one wishes to understand why this adventure became necessary, I would suggest researching and studying the "Hymn of the Pearl". This gnostic story is from the Acts of Thomas and in it we find a beautiful and complete statement describing the exile and redemption of the soul. Complete transformation of the human being cannot be accomplished by the mind on its own. The mind, along with the vital forces and the physical nature, are just too limited. Only an increasingly conscious surrender to Divine realities can bring about a transformation. All the characteristics of the Divine can then manifest itself in the physical body, such as immortality, beauty and bliss. Being in the world of matter is not just being here and going nowhere, it's about the process of awakening and the transformation of the physical body into the Divine.

Ancient Sumer was the location where the sons of Cain began building the world's first cities and civilisations. They are the masters of the Craft and the Master Builders. They were connected to the Divine, but only part of that Divinity that rebelled from God. Their agenda is to prevent human spirits from returning to the Divine. This is the purpose of the ancient Pagan Mystery School Religion and, on Earth, it has its roots in Sumer.

However, as an antedote to this hellish state of affairs on earth, the Divine brought revelations to men who were not contaminated by the seed of the reptilian Serpent. Abraham may have been one of the first men to receive these revelations from the Divine, but as time went by, and one age went into another, these revelations became co-opted by the sons of Cain and the ancient Mystery School Religion. It was these corruptions that became what we know today as organised Judaism, Christianity and Islam. They all derive from the reptilian bloodline that divorced itself from the Divine and which seeks to establish a counterfeit virtual reality New World Order on earth, as a substitute for Divine reality that the evolving and maturing human spirit has an opportunity of reconnecting with.

At the centre of the Ancient Mystery School Religion is the Kabalah, and essentially, this is part of the root of organised Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
"ALL truly dogmatic religions have issued from the Kabalah and return to it; everything scientific and grand in the religious dreams of all the Illuminati, Jacob Boeheme, Swedenborg, Saint Martin, and others, is borrowed from the Kabalah: all Masonic associations owe to it their Secrets and their Symbols." - Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma p.744
So what we essentially have in the world are four different types of people...
1. The sons of Cain and those that knowingly serve and protect the interests of other-dimensional reptilian Beings and their NWO agenda to entrap humanity.

2. Adherents who have been tricked into following the world's organised religions, and by default, the Ancient Mystery School Religion, and who believe they are returning to the Divine, when in fact, they are being hearded into a false AI, virutal relaity matrix, cut off from Divine realms.

3. There are many people who don't know what's going on at all, and who just muddle through life in survival mode.

4. There are those who are looking for the "Pearl", and a transformation of physical reality, into spiritual reality connected to the Divine.
These are four main categories, but of course there are many people who may fit into the grey areas between these catagories. We humans have the extraordinary power, through free volition, to be able to transition from one state or another, betwixt and between. So many people may also inhabit the grey areas, but there does come a time when one has to make a choice, and this is where Christ's illustration of "one will be taken and one will be left". There comes a time when it will no longer be possible to sit on the fence. This time comes at the end of the Apocalypse, which the Reptilian seed are trying so hard to subdue. We live in a period where so much is being revealed and we have an opprtunity of joining the dots and putting back together the lost pieces of the jig-saw puzzle, in order to form a picture of creation that we had long ago forgotten. However, the reptilian seed does not want us to remember, so in this time of apocalyptic revelation, it is doing everything it can to distract humanity, with wars, deceptions, political and religious quarrels, economic fakery, even creating creating fake reality with mobile phones, social media, AI and virtual reality. All these things are designed by the reptilians to distract us from discovering the Divine that lies within. Organised Judaism, Christianity and Islam were all part of the agenda to keep humanity in a fake reality paradigm.
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"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (TROUBLE FOR THE WICKED): I the Lord do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7
God is pure and does not approve of evil. The word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew does not mean evil in the moral sense. Contextually, when God speaks of creating evil, he is speaking of the calamities that he brings upon the enemies of his purpose.
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Old 31-12-2017, 01:49 PM   #54
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But god can not talk to any one. So he would had to send an angle to Abraham. Of all the things I show @ any time has GOD spoke as a human. No he has not. but has made his mind n line of thinking KNOWN and really very very clear.

In our time we can't get passed the disillusionment of religion. because the people who made the construct. have fail to conclusively gather there facts. They choose to hide the more unseemly parts. Change a angel for GOD him self. pretty soon people get smart enough to know. Used it to gain what we call power. Used it to propagate mass murder. Used it to CONTROL the uneducated mass's.

Well that just dose not make sense.

But what dose make sense is he reading the world around him an trying to make sense of it all


Genesis 22New International Version (NIV)

well there is in modern text for enjoy my Brothra

I'm off to play sum Hellion an Walk my pupyz
Skys
I agree that organised religion is all part of the Devil's deception, but I'm still wondering why you haven't acknowledged that Abraham didn't kill his son. May be you didn't read all of my reply? Anyhow, best wishes with trying to make sense of things!
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"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (TROUBLE FOR THE WICKED): I the Lord do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7
God is pure and does not approve of evil. The word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew does not mean evil in the moral sense. Contextually, when God speaks of creating evil, he is speaking of the calamities that he brings upon the enemies of his purpose.
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Old 31-12-2017, 07:10 PM   #55
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John of Patmos (also called John the Revelator, John the Divine or John the Theologian; Greek: ??????? ? ????????) is the name given to the presumed author of the Book of Revelation, the apocalyptic text forming the final chapter of the New Testament.

https://translate.google.co.uk/?hl=e...%20???%0A?????

??????? ? ????????

?
? ? ? ???
? ???
?????

''I
as a whole
  God
reason


https://youtu.be/010UM6ilmNo



Pharaoh- NEW YEARS RITUAL(THE TRUE AGENDA OF RELIGION)

Happy New Year

Peace

Last edited by edit; 31-12-2017 at 07:15 PM. Reason: Greek letters when splitt - i ohn the Theo logian - Aquarius age - Whole I - as explained in the video
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Old 01-01-2018, 12:47 AM   #56
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Ancient Sumer was the location where the sons of Cain began building the world's first cities and civilisations.
but again here we are assuming a lineage presented to us from an Abrahamic interpretation

that the sons of Cain built sumers civilisations ?

did they really ? that's not what the Sumerians said at all is it ?

I still see no evidence that anyone called Cain gave birth to sons who built Sumer and the mystery religions which spawned Abraham and on to the three part saga of Judaism , Christianity and Islam

all three rely on the foundations of a world view which emerged from Ur in Sumer and Ur was part of a larger network of polytheistic beliefs

it's my own opinion that Abraham was not a single man but a move out of Ur from one of the mystery schools as they foresaw the fall of Sumer and branched out

it's my own opinion after looking at all this from many perspectives that the three branches of Abraham all promise the reunion with God , just God / El plain old God with a capital G and their main purpose was multifold

partly to maintain their own hides , partly to begin again a movement of followers and partly as a means of carrying occult info by infusing it into allegory and further mysticism

Judaism is tied eternally to the Kabbalah , one cannot exist without the other
and it is my opinion that is what we are facing today with all three Abrahamic religions linked through baylonian mystery school freemasonry and the front orgs are the fronts we know as Judaism / Christianity & Islam

behind the scenes the top brass of those orgs are occultists and they believe nothing of the scriptures available to us

I cannot accept that the creator of this universe and it's many dimensions chose one man from Ur to produce the divine right to rule that manifested itself as the israelites

I do not believe the israelites are supposed to inherit the Earth at the expense of the life of countless others and neither do I accept that all this has just been a big side show as we wait for God , just plain old God with a capital G to show up and bestow some kind of crown upon the head of a jew who will rule the world

not having it
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Old 01-01-2018, 04:46 PM   #57
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but again here we are assuming a lineage presented to us from an Abrahamic interpretation

that the sons of Cain built sumers civilisations ?

did they really ? that's not what the Sumerians said at all is it ?

I still see no evidence that anyone called Cain gave birth to sons who built Sumer and the mystery religions which spawned Abraham and on to the three part saga of Judaism , Christianity and Islam

all three rely on the foundations of a world view which emerged from Ur in Sumer and Ur was part of a larger network of polytheistic beliefs

it's my own opinion that Abraham was not a single man but a move out of Ur from one of the mystery schools as they foresaw the fall of Sumer and branched out

it's my own opinion after looking at all this from many perspectives that the three branches of Abraham all promise the reunion with God , just God / El plain old God with a capital G and their main purpose was multifold

partly to maintain their own hides , partly to begin again a movement of followers and partly as a means of carrying occult info by infusing it into allegory and further mysticism

Judaism is tied eternally to the Kabbalah , one cannot exist without the other
and it is my opinion that is what we are facing today with all three Abrahamic religions linked through baylonian mystery school freemasonry and the front orgs are the fronts we know as Judaism / Christianity & Islam

behind the scenes the top brass of those orgs are occultists and they believe nothing of the scriptures available to us

I cannot accept that the creator of this universe and it's many dimensions chose one man from Ur to produce the divine right to rule that manifested itself as the israelites

I do not believe the israelites are supposed to inherit the Earth at the expense of the life of countless others and neither do I accept that all this has just been a big side show as we wait for God , just plain old God with a capital G to show up and bestow some kind of crown upon the head of a jew who will rule the world

not having it
If you see no evidence the sons of Cain built the earliest civilisations, and that their generational elite have continued to the present day with their associations with secretive societies such as Freemasonry, then you'll not achieve a deep understanding of why the civilisation we live in today is based on fabrications.
"The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists." - J. Edgar Hoover, Former FBI director (1924-1972)

"History is an account mostly false, of events mostly unimportant, which are brought about by rulers, mostly knaves, and soldiers, mostly fools." - Ambrose Bierce (1842-1914)

"History is the lie commonly agreed upon." - Voltaire

"All of history is nothing more than an outside view of the schemes and struggles of the illuminati."

"Americans are now beginning to pay the price for sleeping through history classes, ignoring important information in the alternative media and neglecting to participate in their own political process." - Jim Marrs

"The reason why many mainstream historians deliberately fail to acknowledge the occult dimension of history is because it always raises difficult and awkward to answer questions."

"Recent history is the record of a vast conspiracy to impose one level of mechanical consciousness on mankind." - Allen Ginsberg
There are countless ancient accounts, from all over the world, of a time when 'gods' brought advanced knowledge to mankind and helped man build these ancient cities and civilisations. When I mentioned Sumer, I was simply stating that this was the location where the earliest city states became formed.

Of course, it's impossible to prove a man called Cain existed. All we can do is quote ancient texts, but even if we disagree about every single fine detail about history, there's plenty evidence in our own time of how secretive societies operate and form the "cement" of our modern civilisation, and this has always been the case. These secretive societies are largely based on the Kabalah, which in turn stretches back to the Old Testament and all the earliest locations where cities and civilisations first developed.

If you research the secretive societies, they all derive knowledge from other dimensional sources. Leading figures in these societies steeped themselves in the Ancient Mystery School traditions and in witchcraft and the occult, and all these traditions stretch back to that area in ancient Sumer and Babylon.

Who brought this supernatural knowledge to selected individuals? David Icke's research has led him to a generational elite... a reptilian bloodline and he traces this back to ancient Sumer where various ancient sacred texts reveal that other dimensional beings came to earth and had intercourse with human women and out of this interbreeding, a generational elite developed that became the builders of civilisation and the masterminds behind the secretive societies.

David Icke (The Biggest Secret, PP.3,4):
You will probably have to go back hundreds of thousands of years to find the starting point of this story of human manipulation and of the family lines which orchestrate the Great Work. The more I have researched this over the years, the more obvious it has become to me that the origin of the bloodlines and the plan for the takeover of the Earth goes off planet to a race or races from other spheres or dimensions of evolution. Extra-terrestrial as we call them.

[...]

All over the planet are fantastic structures built thousands of years ago which could only have been created with technology as good as, often even better than, we have today. At Baalbek, north east of Beirut in the Lebanon, three massive chunks of stone, each weighing 800 tons, were moved at least a third of a mile and positioned high up in a wall. This was done thousands of years BC! Another block nearby weighs 1,000 tons - the weight of three jumbo jets. How was this possible? Official history does not wish to address such questions because of where it might lead.

[...]

The knowledge which allowed wonders like Nazca, Baalbek, the Great Pyramid at Giza and other amazing creations to be built with such precision and scale, came from an advanced race who, in ancient times, lived among a far more primitive general population. This race is described as ‘the gods’ in the Old Testament texts and other works and in oral traditions of antiquity.

[...]

An influx of knowledge from outside this planet or another source would explain so many of the ‘mysteries’ that official history greets with a deafening silence. The incredible feats of building also become explainable and so does the mystery of why early civilisations like Egypt and Sumer (the land of Shinar in the Bible) began at the peak of their development and then fell into decay, when the normal course of evolution is to start at a lower level and slowly advance through learning and experience. There was clearly an infusion of highly advanced knowledge that was later lost to most people. In every culture throughout the world are ancient stories and texts which describe the ‘gods’ who brought this advanced knowledge. This would again explain the mystery of how the ancients had a phenomenal understanding of astronomy. There are endless legends all over the world of a time they call the Golden Age, which was destroyed by cataclysm and the ‘fall of Man’. The ancient Greek poet, Heslod, described the world before the ‘fall’:
“Man lived like Gods, without vices or passions, vexation or toil. In happy companionship with divine beings (extra-terrestrials?), they passed their days in tranquillity and joy, living together in perfect equality, united by mutual confidence and love. The Earth was more beautiful than now, and spontaneously yielded an abundant variety of fruits. Human beings and animals spoke the same language and conversed with each other (telepathy). Men were considered mere boys at a hundred years old. They had none of the infirmities of age to trouble them and when they passed to regions of superior life, it was in a gentle slumber.”
The Torah, from which the Kabalah is derived, explains that Cain complained to God that if he was displaced to the East (the Land of Nod), for his crime of murdering Able, he would become vulnerable to attack. God made covenant with Cain that whoever should attack him, "will suffer vengeance seven times over". This mark is known as "the mark of Cain". So Cain went forth into the land of Nod and with his descendants and began building the first cities. With the Divine covenant, they became a powerful elite family and whoever attacked them, they became seven times more powerful. Provoking violence and wars became an incredibly useful tool for them to build powerbases and civilisations, and this is how the generational elite behave today. They provoke wars and violence in the lands, and they continue to become seven times more powerful and who can defeat them? They derive their knowledge from the Kabalah, magic and a connection with the Divine, helped along the way by fallen angels who came to earth as extra-terrestrials who mated with this generational elite and formed secret societies.
The Mark of Cain

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_...n#Mark_of_Cain

The mark of Cain is God's promise to offer Cain divine protection from premature death with the stated purpose of preventing anyone from killing him.

In Kabbalah, the Zohar states that the mark of Cain was one of the twenty-two Hebrew letters of the Torah, although the Zohar's native Aramaic does not actually tell us which of the letters it was. Some commentators, such as Rabbi Michael Berg in his English commentary on the Zohar, suggest that the mark of Cain was the letter vav (the sixth letter of the Semitic abjads, which is the consonant "w" in original Hebrew).
This is how modern day Islam, Christianity and Judaism was created. These religions were created to keep a large proportion of the masses in captivity.

Anyone who sins will be administered by Satan.

The sons of Cain generational elite misused the covenant from God. They use the mark of Cain for self-serving ends, when according to the Torah, it should only have been used for the purposes of protection.

Of course Islam, Christianity and Judaism all promise a reunion with God, but the followers of these religions are being deceived. By following these three religions, the masses are actually binding themselves to Satan's NWO agenda, which is nothing less than a counterfeit of the kingdom of heaven promised by Christ. We now discover that the NWO agenda is pushing the masses towards a future defined by Artificial Intelligence, and virtual reality.

People are being pushed towards a virtual reality matrix, cut off from Divine realms. In other words, the plan is to cut humanity off from God. A global lobotomy from the Divine source. That is the NWO agenda.

I agree with you when you say that, "behind the scenes the top brass of those orgs are occultists and they believe nothing of the scriptures available to us". Spot on!

You wrote:
"I cannot accept that the creator of this universe and it's many dimensions chose one man from Ur to produce the divine right to rule that manifested itself as the israelites."
You have misunderstood the Torah. God chose many men to communicate with. Abraham just happened to be the first to start broadcasting God's Word through text.

Regarding the Divine right to rule, as I explained in a previous post, the Israelite's Divine right to rule was not God's idea. God advised the Israelites not to adopt a king because a king would exploit their income through taxation and would send their sons to war. The Israelites went against God's advice because they wanted to be like the surrounding nations who had kings. The Israelites imported the Divine right to rule from the sons of Cain. The Divine right to rule comes from misuse of the powerful Covenant God made with Cain. The Divine right to rule comes from the mark of Cain. This mark of Cain is the Holy Grail of the secretive societies, such as Freemasonry. The mark of Cain is also the Holy Grail of royal families and the ruling generational elite that have their roots in the cradle of civilisation in the lands of Sumer and Babylon.

It doesn't matter whether you believe Cain existed or not. The fact is that the Cain is mentioned in the Torah, and via the Kabalah, the Torah is what the Builders (latterly known as the Freemasons) have based civilisation on. So in order to understand civilisation and where we are today, you have to understand the significance of Cain, whether you believe he existed or not.

The cabal that rules the world gleaned deep insights from the Torah and formed this into the Kabalah, and the Cabal use the Kabalah to build cities and civilisations. The Kabalah, however, is a misuse of the Torah. If they had followed the Torah, there would be no Divine right to rule because God told Adam only to look after the animals. God did not tell Adam to lord over other men. The idea of men ruling men comes from the Cabal and the Kabalah, Pagan doctrines, and the reptilian generational elite.

In the ENCYCLOPEDIA OF FREEMASONRY, Albert McKay states that Tubal-Cain was the founder of the smith-craft in operative Freemasonry, which later became speculative Freemasonry:
Tubal Cain

http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/mackey...clopedia/t.htm

"The first Masonic reference to Tubal Cain is found in the Legend of the Craft, where he is called the Founder of Smith-Craft, an explanation agreeing closely with modern biblical scholarship which designates him as the "Founder of the Gild of Smiths or Metal Workers."

[...]

Before Noah's flood there was a man called Lamedh, as it is written in the Bible, in the fourth Chapter of Genesis; and this Lamedh had two wives, the one named Ada and the other named Zilla by his first wife Ada, he got two sons, the one Jubal, and the other Jabal: and by the other wife he got a son and a daughter. And these four children founded the beginning of all the sciences in the world.

[...]

The use of Tubal Cain as a significant word in the Masonic instructions is derived from the Legend of the Craft, by which the name was made familiar to the Operative and then to the Speculative Freemasons; and it refers not symbolically, but historically to his Scriptural and traditional reputation as an artificer.
According to Genesis, Tubal-Cain was a descendant of Cain (see Gensis 4:17-22). This is why the Freemasons are known as the sons of Cain and they also bear the mark of Cain.

In the ENCYCLOPEDIA OF FREEMASONRY, Albert McKay states that Nimrod is considered to be "one of the founders Of Freemasonry":
NIMROD

http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/mackey...clopedia/n.htm

The Legend of the Craft in the Old Constitutions refers to Nimrod as one of the founders Of Freemasonry. Thus in the York Manuscript. No. 1, we read: 'At ye makeing of ye Toure of Babell there was Masonrie first much esteemed of, and the King of Babilon yt was called Nimrod was A Mason himself and loved well Masons." And the Cooke Manuscript thus repeats the story: 'And this same Nembroth began the towre of babilon and he taught to his werkemen the craft of Masonrie, and he had with him many Masons more than forty thousand. And he loved and cherished them well" (see line 343). The idea no doubt sprang out of the Scriptural teaching that Nimrod was the architect of many cities; a statement not so well expressed in the authorized version, as it is in the improved one of Bochart, which says: "From that land Nimrod went forth to Asshur, and builded Nineveh, and Rehoboth city, and Calah and Resen between Nineveh and Calah, that is the great city."
According to the Torah, Nimrod was a descendant of Cain who in Hebrew scriptures is described as the seed of the serpent.

Cain is not listed on the genealogy of Adam.

Cain had a different disposition, a different spirit and DNA.

Cain is the father of the Ancient Mystery Religion.

You keep telling me that what I believe is based on false history because there's no proof that Cain existed, but what I'm saying is that it doesn't matter whether you believe Cain existed or not because if you want to understand why the whole history of civilisation is based on a lie, you have to understand what Freemasons believe because it's the Freemasons who are behind the Great Work of the Ages. It's the Cabal ("Cabal" is derived from the word "Kabalah") who are behind the every civilisation since the founding of the cradle of civilisation in Sumer and Babylon. It's the cabal who are behind the Ancient Mystery religion and they inverted the Torah and turned every truth in the Torah upside down. In the Cabal's world black is white, and white is black, the Serpent/Dragon is good and Jesus Christ is bad, the Devil is good and God is bad.
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"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (TROUBLE FOR THE WICKED): I the Lord do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7
God is pure and does not approve of evil. The word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew does not mean evil in the moral sense. Contextually, when God speaks of creating evil, he is speaking of the calamities that he brings upon the enemies of his purpose.
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Old 01-01-2018, 05:31 PM   #58
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I think actually surfer our understanding is quite similar in the respect that the mystery schools are for the most part a dead end path

also that the mystery school that emerged from Ur formed what we know of today as secret societies etc

so really I am not saying what you believe is a fantasy , far from it

the bit I have a problem with is following the mythology of that same mystery school to fathom a way through to freeing the consciousness of this earth from their grip

so when they say Cain , even if Cain was just a way to give a face to an idea - the idea we were genetically inclined to be in tune with the creator and the mystery ( misery ) schools bend reality to slow or stop that - I still think that is allowing the mystery school to dictate the terms of this matrix system

it's a bit like the new testament and the water into wine , raising the dead , healing the blind

all allegories for initiation , the soul of a person being perfected through resurrection during life , a spiritual death while alive

let the dead bury the dead - as we know now the Essenes considered those outside of the fold spiritually dead though physically living

it's a similar theme to the empty vessel isn't it ?

all very interesting surfer and thanks again for the exchange
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Old 01-01-2018, 06:05 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by mranderson View Post
I think actually surfer our understanding is quite similar in the respect that the mystery schools are for the most part a dead end path

also that the mystery school that emerged from Ur formed what we know of today as secret societies etc

so really I am not saying what you believe is a fantasy , far from it

the bit I have a problem with is following the mythology of that same mystery school to fathom a way through to freeing the consciousness of this earth from their grip

so when they say Cain , even if Cain was just a way to give a face to an idea - the idea we were genetically inclined to be in tune with the creator and the mystery ( misery ) schools bend reality to slow or stop that - I still think that is allowing the mystery school to dictate the terms of this matrix system

it's a bit like the new testament and the water into wine , raising the dead , healing the blind

all allegories for initiation , the soul of a person being perfected through resurrection during life , a spiritual death while alive

let the dead bury the dead - as we know now the Essenes considered those outside of the fold spiritually dead though physically living

it's a similar theme to the empty vessel isn't it ?

all very interesting surfer and thanks again for the exchange
I'm not sure what your beliefs are or what they're based on, but if the reptilian generational elite are informed enough to orchestrate an agenda (The Great Work/NWO agenda) over millennia, based on the Kaballah, there must be some intelligence they are opposing and fighting against. They know how to program animal intelligence but it appears they have no power over the spirit. Their only weapon is to seduce people to their agenda, which, as we can now see, is all about creating an astral reality, a fake reality, a virtual reality based on AI. It's pretty obvious they are trying to shield humanity from a reality that is much higher than what they are in touch with or have access to.

Is it that you find it difficult to accept that there are people on earth that are minion incarnations (as David Icke calls them, or in other words, soulless humans, organic portals)?

You wrote:
the bit I have a problem with is following the mythology of that same mystery school to fathom a way through to freeing the consciousness of this earth from their grip
From my research, the Mystery School they follow is not the same as the Torah. It's derived from the Torah, I agree but it's a reversal. It's a total 180 degree reversal of the Torah... a mirror reflection. Therefore, I see the Torah as steering things in completely the opposite direction to the direction the reptilian bloodline wish to take humanity in.

I see the Torah as being like a vehicle which is designed to take man safely from A to B, through the world of matter, but within the vehicle is a powerful engine. That engine is like the Kabalah. God forbade man to taste the knowledge of how the mechanics of consciousness works because he knew this knowledge would have a corrupting effect. God knew that man would use this knowledge for power and with that power, man would enslave his fellow man through materialism. The Torah is like a vehicle. One gets in it, one drives it, and it safely takes you to where you need to get to, which is paradise and eternal bliss. No need to start tinkering about with the engine. Once man started listening to the Serpent, the vehicle they were travelling in started playing up, doubts set in and man succumb to reptilian forces and began delving into the mechanics of how consciousness works, then all hell was let loose as man started to dominate man.

Even delving into the Kabalah with good intentions can lead to loss of higher consciousness. The rest is history. If the engine goes wrong, take time to reflect and allow time to heal and the engine will fix itself. Getting involved in the mechanics of the occult only leads to more confusion and a loss of control, which in turn leads to trying to control others.
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"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (TROUBLE FOR THE WICKED): I the Lord do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7
God is pure and does not approve of evil. The word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew does not mean evil in the moral sense. Contextually, when God speaks of creating evil, he is speaking of the calamities that he brings upon the enemies of his purpose.
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Old 01-01-2018, 06:29 PM   #60
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I'm not sure what your beliefs are or what they're based on
I don't have a belief as such , I just know we are energy first and matter second

that what we see with our eyes is only half of what we can know with our hearts

I can score pretty high on Noetics testing and have been known to short street lighting on demand and the amount of times someone says '' I'm sorry it's never done this before '' when they are using their computer to help me entrench myself in the matrix is not by accident

parlor tricks to some but this world is not what it seems , nothing Icke says phases me

multi dimensional reality ? no problem

reptilians ? no problem

hidden in plain sight objects of energetic focus that keep us pinned down ? no problem !

have to be honest that's why I am so moved by watching the third part of the saga be given such blatant prescience in society

it makes me sick to my stomach because I know it's as false as the other two parts and is just another dead end put in front of humanity to slow us down
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