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Old 26-12-2017, 07:30 PM   #21
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Who is Joseph Atwill?

http://en.rightpedia.info/w/Joseph_Atwill

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Joseph Atwill (born c. 1951), also known as Joe Atwill, is an American writer about Christianity from Montecito, California and a supporter of the Zeitgeist movement. He is best known for his book Ceasar's Messiah, which claims that the Gospels were written by Josephus for the Flavian dynasty as a fabrication to pacify rebellious Jews.[1] Atwill is very sympathetic to Jews, bewails their supposed "persecution" and on his Facebook page likes "Kabbalah Info" and "Connections Israel". His claims have been debunked.[2][3][4]
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"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (TROUBLE FOR THE WICKED): I the Lord do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7
God is pure and does not approve of evil. The word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew does not mean evil in the moral sense. Contextually, when God speaks of creating evil, he is speaking of the calamities that he brings upon the enemies of his purpose.
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Old 26-12-2017, 07:36 PM   #22
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Atheists Skeptical of Atwill’s Claim of a ‘Fabricated Jesus’

http://guardianlv.com/2013/10/atheis...ricated-jesus/

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Self-proclaimed Biblical scholar Joseph Atwill has written a book in which he claims that Jesus was fabricated by a little-known group called the Flavians. He also claims he has some sort of “smoking gun” type of “confession” from these ancient people that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that they entered into a conspiracy with the Roman government of the time to fabricate a character called Jesus as a “gentle Messiah” figure to wage psychological warfare on, and control, the masses so they would pay Caesar taxes without complaining. He is apparently going to present this evidence at a symposium later this month to which he is selling tickets. Atheists don’t believe in God, and therefore, don’t believe in Jesus, so Atwill’s claim must be immediately adopted and enthusiastically promoted by Atheists, right? …Wrong. Atheists are a notoriously skeptical lot, and when reviewing this claim by Atwill of a fabricated Jesus, their famous skepticism is not only alive, but thriving.
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"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (TROUBLE FOR THE WICKED): I the Lord do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7
God is pure and does not approve of evil. The word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew does not mean evil in the moral sense. Contextually, when God speaks of creating evil, he is speaking of the calamities that he brings upon the enemies of his purpose.
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Old 26-12-2017, 07:39 PM   #23
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Joseph Atwill's Caesar's Messiah - Wikipedia...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar%27s_Messiah
Caesar’s Messiah is a 2006 book of speculative non-fiction by Joseph Atwill, which argues that the New Testament Gospels were written as wartime propaganda by scholars connected to the Roman imperial court of the Flavian emperors: Vespasian, Titus and Domitian.

Reception

The mythicist Biblical scholar Robert M. Price said that Atwill "gives himself license to indulge in the most outrageous display of parallelomania ever seen." Price acknowledges that the New Testament has "persistent pro-Roman tendencies", but says this was done "for apologetical reasons, to avoid persecution."[29] The mythicist Richard Carrier similarly stated that all of Atwill's alleged parallels can be explained as either coincidences, mistranslations, or references to Old Testament sources or tropes. However, Carrier also agreed that the New Testament has pro-Roman aspects. According to Carrier, "Christianity was probably constructed to 'divert Jewish hostility and aggressiveness into a pacifist religion, supportive of–and subservient to–Roman rule,' but not by Romans, but exasperated Jews like Paul."[36]

Biblical scholar Bart Ehrman said "I know sophomores in college who could rip this ... to shreds" and pointed out that Atwill had "no training in any relevant field."[54]
__________________
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"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (TROUBLE FOR THE WICKED): I the Lord do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7
God is pure and does not approve of evil. The word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew does not mean evil in the moral sense. Contextually, when God speaks of creating evil, he is speaking of the calamities that he brings upon the enemies of his purpose.
.

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Old 26-12-2017, 07:42 PM   #24
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I've never been able to find any
credible scholar that endorses Atwill's claims!

Can't even find a decent biography to find out if
he has any proper qualifications on the subject...
critics call him self-proclaimed!
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"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (TROUBLE FOR THE WICKED): I the Lord do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7
God is pure and does not approve of evil. The word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew does not mean evil in the moral sense. Contextually, when God speaks of creating evil, he is speaking of the calamities that he brings upon the enemies of his purpose.
.

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Old 26-12-2017, 07:46 PM   #25
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Other Roman sources for the existence of Christ

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ
Tacitus is one of three key Roman authors who may refer to early Christians, the other two being Pliny the Younger and Suetonius.[65][66] These authors refer to events which took place during the reign of various Roman emperors, Suetonius writing about an expulsion from Rome during the reign of Claudius (41 to 54), and also punishments by Nero (who reigned from 54 to 68), Pliny's letters are to Trajan about the trials he was holding for Christians around 111 AD.[65] But the temporal order for the documents begins with Pliny writing around 111 AD, then Tacitus around 115/116 AD and then Suetonius writing in the Lives of the Twelve Caesars around 122 AD.[65][67] Thus 47 to 58 years after the 64 AD fire and Nero's alleged persecution.
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"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (TROUBLE FOR THE WICKED): I the Lord do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7
God is pure and does not approve of evil. The word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew does not mean evil in the moral sense. Contextually, when God speaks of creating evil, he is speaking of the calamities that he brings upon the enemies of his purpose.
.
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Old 26-12-2017, 07:51 PM   #26
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The historical Jesus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus#Historical_views
Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed historically,[g] although the quest for the historical Jesus has produced little agreement on the historical reliability of the Gospels and on how closely the biblical Jesus reflects the historical Jesus.[21][h][i] Jesus was a Galilean Jew[12] who was baptized by John the Baptist and subsequently began his own ministry, preaching his message orally[24] and often being referred to as "rabbi".[25] Jesus debated fellow Jews on how to best follow God, engaged in healings, taught in parables and gathered followers.[26][27] He was arrested and tried by the Jewish authorities,[28] and turned over to the Roman government, and was subsequently crucified on the order of Pontius Pilate, the Roman prefect.[26]

[...]

Early non-Christian sources that attest to the historical existence of Jesus include the works of the historians Josephus and Tacitus.[n][242][249] Josephus scholar Louis Feldman has stated that "few have doubted the genuineness" of Josephus' reference to Jesus in book 20 of the Antiquities of the Jews, and it is disputed only by a small number of scholars.[250][251] Tacitus referred to Christ and his execution by Pilate in book 15 of his work Annals. Scholars generally consider Tacitus's reference to the execution of Jesus to be both authentic and of historical value as an independent Roman source.[252]

Non-Christian sources are valuable in two ways. First, they show that even neutral or hostile parties never evince any doubt that Jesus actually existed.

Second, they present a rough picture of Jesus that is compatible with that found in the Christian sources: that Jesus was a teacher, had a reputation as a miracle worker, had a brother James, and died a violent death.[11]

Archeology helps scholars better understand Jesus' social world.[253] Recent archeological work, for example, indicates that Capernaum, a city important in Jesus' ministry, was poor and small, without even a forum or an agora.[254][255] This archaeological discovery resonates well with the scholarly view that Jesus advocated reciprocal sharing among the destitute in that area of Galilee.[254]
__________________
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"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (TROUBLE FOR THE WICKED): I the Lord do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7
God is pure and does not approve of evil. The word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew does not mean evil in the moral sense. Contextually, when God speaks of creating evil, he is speaking of the calamities that he brings upon the enemies of his purpose.
.

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Old 26-12-2017, 10:10 PM   #27
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Abraham would be so proud !

in fact God would be proud

for at least the past couple of thousand years of history ( mind boggling ) people have been butchering each other and persecuting each other over what ?

entry to see God when it boils down to it

and what a crock of shit it all is when you consider how easy it would be for God to just make an appearance and settle it once and for all

Abrahamic religions bring nothing but suffering and persecution where ever they are followed

Jesus ? Ezra ? Mohammed ?

which one ? some say just one some say all but especially one

bollocks , bollocks and bollocks

all three Abrahamic religions remove us from the natural cycles of observing the passing of the seasons and instead of celebrating life they celebrate death

what a set up of the ages

all three Abrahamic religions believe themselves to have the only answer to all our problems and all three like a satanic triangle keep humanity from evolving

one teaches disdain , one teaches judgement and one teaches violence

all while claiming to be the opposite

what a mind fuck
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Old 26-12-2017, 10:26 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by mranderson View Post
Abraham would be so proud !

in fact God would be proud

for at least the past couple of thousand years of history ( mind boggling ) people have been butchering each other and persecuting each other over what ?

entry to see God when it boils down to it

and what a crock of shit it all is when you consider how easy it would be for God to just make an appearance and settle it once and for all

Abrahamic religions bring nothing but suffering and persecution where ever they are followed

Jesus ? Ezra ? Mohammed ?

which one ? some say just one some say all but especially one

bollocks , bollocks and bollocks

all three Abrahamic religions remove us from the natural cycles of observing the passing of the seasons and instead of celebrating life they celebrate death

what a set up of the ages

all three Abrahamic religions believe themselves to have the only answer to all our problems and all three like a satanic triangle keep humanity from evolving

one teaches disdain , one teaches judgement and one teaches violence

all while claiming to be the opposite

what a mind fuck
Of course, you forgot to mention that atheists and people not involved in religions butcher and murder each other too, and start wars and commit all manner of obnoxious crimes. Look at the crimes of Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot.

If anyone murders, starts a war or commits a crime in the name of religion, they were never spiritual in the first place!!!

Churchianity is a wolf in sheep's clothing. It's the old Babylonian Pagan religion in disguise.

Churchianity is nothing less than the co-opting of spiritual principals by reptilian demons.

They have astro-turfed the world with lies and deceptions.


It's got absolutely nothing to do with God or Abrahamic religions. It's a human problem.

It's humans doing the killing, not to mention demons and reptilian beings behind the scenes doing their best to corrupt humanity and turn humanity away from God.

As for why God doesn't intervene? Man is on earth to evolve and mature. If God were to intervene too prematurely, it would interfere with the maturing process, which is why Christ gave the parable of the harvest.

A farmer cannot sort the wheat from the tares until the time is right for the harvest.



__________________
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"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (TROUBLE FOR THE WICKED): I the Lord do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7
God is pure and does not approve of evil. The word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew does not mean evil in the moral sense. Contextually, when God speaks of creating evil, he is speaking of the calamities that he brings upon the enemies of his purpose.
.

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Old 27-12-2017, 03:17 AM   #29
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I'm not going to get into a christianity debate ...people have strongly held beliefs , and are not likely to change them ......

But Atwill is doing excellent work , clearly has a first class mind ... has weekly broadcasts exposing the NWO ...

http://

The above video charts the organised sexual corruption of the west , and many other issues ...

http://

20:30... "elvis was jewish .... his mother was jewish , she had the star of david on her grave stone "

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Old 27-12-2017, 12:26 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by oz93666 View Post
20:30... "elvis was jewish .... his mother was jewish , she had the star of david on her grave stone "
Who is Joseph Atwill?

http://en.rightpedia.info/w/Joseph_Atwill

Quote:
Joseph Atwill (born c. 1951), also known as Joe Atwill, is an American writer about Christianity from Montecito, California and a supporter of the Zeitgeist movement. He is best known for his book Ceasar's Messiah, which claims that the Gospels were written by Josephus for the Flavian dynasty as a fabrication to pacify rebellious Jews.[1] Atwill is very sympathetic to Jews, bewails their supposed "persecution" and on his Facebook page likes "Kabbalah Info" and "Connections Israel". His claims have been debunked.[2][3][4]
__________________
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"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (TROUBLE FOR THE WICKED): I the Lord do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7
God is pure and does not approve of evil. The word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew does not mean evil in the moral sense. Contextually, when God speaks of creating evil, he is speaking of the calamities that he brings upon the enemies of his purpose.
.
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Old 27-12-2017, 12:28 PM   #31
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Atwill doesn't know what he's talking about. Atwill claims Christ was conceived by the Romans in 73 AD, but the Roman historian and senator Tacitus referred to Christ much earlier than that, in 64 AD.
Tacitus on Christ

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ

The Roman historian and senator Tacitus referred to Christ, his execution by Pontius Pilate, and the existence of early Christians in Rome in one page of his final work, Annals (written ca. AD 116), book 15, chapter 44.[1]

The context of the passage is the six-day Great Fire of Rome that burned much of the city in AD 64 during the reign of Roman Emperor Nero.[2] The passage is one of the earliest non-Christian references to the origins of Christianity, the execution of Christ described in the canonical gospels, and the presence and persecution of Christians in 1st-century Rome.[3][4]

Scholars generally consider Tacitus' reference to the execution of Jesus by Pontius Pilate to be both authentic, and of historical value as an independent Roman source.[5][6][7] Paul Eddy and Gregory Boyd state that it is now "firmly established" that Tacitus provides a non-Christian confirmation of the crucifixion of Jesus.[8]

Historian Ronald Mellor has stated that the Annals is "Tacitus's crowning achievement" which represents the "pinnacle of Roman historical writing".[9] Scholars view it as establishing three separate facts about Rome around AD 60: (i) that there were a sizable number of Christians in Rome at the time, (ii) that it was possible to distinguish between Christians and Jews in Rome, and (iii) that at the time pagans made a connection between Christianity in Rome and its origin in Roman Judea.[10][11]

Authenticity and historical value

Most modern scholars consider the passage to be authentic.[41][42] William L. Portier has stated that the consistency in the references by Tacitus, Josephus and the letters to Emperor Trajan by Pliny the Younger reaffirm the validity of all three accounts.[42] Scholars generally consider Tacitus's reference to be of historical value as an independent Roman source about early Christianity that is in unison with other historical records.[5][6][7][42]
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"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (TROUBLE FOR THE WICKED): I the Lord do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7
God is pure and does not approve of evil. The word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew does not mean evil in the moral sense. Contextually, when God speaks of creating evil, he is speaking of the calamities that he brings upon the enemies of his purpose.
.
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Old 27-12-2017, 07:27 PM   #32
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It's got absolutely nothing to do with God or Abrahamic religions. It's a human problem.
I think it's got everything to do with Abraham but thats another story

I also think God is an invention of man and man uses God as an excuse to back up his desires

abrahams God told the Jewish people they are the chosen ones and you can do whatever you like to anyone else , pretty much

then abrahams God apparently inspired Jesus to say no that's quite right but also inspired another man made 2000 years of more skull splitting

and then for the finale of Abraham you have Mohammed who , apparently being the perfect man under God was told to go on a killing spree to stop the oppression he felt , all ways oppressed you see these men of God - all ways with a promise of further reward if you just do as we say

and of course from each of those Abrahamic systems comes the later interpretations of Man and the doctoring of language to reflect the political climate of the day

and people want to emulate the poltical climate of the middle east a couple of thousand years ago ?

go ahead , try applying that shit to a world that has opened it's heart to understanding we are all connected to the divine 100% of the time

the need for intermediaries between us and '' God '' is fast on the way out

I think this is what we are seeing with the last Abrahamic incarnation

the religion of peace is getting the exposure it deserves and will be bathed in the light of the truth like any other

if it survives intact , is not up to man
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Old 27-12-2017, 07:39 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by mranderson View Post
I think it's got everything to do with Abraham but thats another story

I also think God is an invention of man and man uses God as an excuse to back up his desires

abrahams God told the Jewish people they are the chosen ones and you can do whatever you like to anyone else , pretty much

then abrahams God apparently inspired Jesus to say no that's quite right but also inspired another man made 2000 years of more skull splitting

and then for the finale of Abraham you have Mohammed who , apparently being the perfect man under God was told to go on a killing spree to stop the oppression he felt , all ways oppressed you see these men of God - all ways with a promise of further reward if you just do as we say

and of course from each of those Abrahamic systems comes the later interpretations of Man and the doctoring of language to reflect the political climate of the day

and people want to emulate the poltical climate of the middle east a couple of thousand years ago ?

go ahead , try applying that shit to a world that has opened it's heart to understanding we are all connected to the divine 100% of the time

the need for intermediaries between us and '' God '' is fast on the way out

I think this is what we are seeing with the last Abrahamic incarnation

the religion of peace is getting the exposure it deserves and will be bathed in the light of the truth like any other

if it survives intact , is not up to man
I've said it so many times, I do not support or promote Churchianity or any organised religion.

That, therefore, does away with the need for an intermediary between God and man.

Regarding God being an invention of man, we'll just have to agree to disagree about that!

And, as you totally ignored the points I made in the post you replied to, here we go again:

Of course, you forgot to mention that atheists and people not involved in religions butcher and murder each other too, and start wars and commit all manner of obnoxious crimes. Look at the crimes of Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot.

If anyone murders, starts a war or commits a crime in the name of religion, they were never spiritual in the first place!!!

Churchianity is a wolf in sheep's clothing. It's the old Babylonian Pagan religion in disguise.

Churchianity is nothing less than the co-opting of spiritual principals by reptilian demons.

They have astro-turfed the world with lies and deceptions.

It's got absolutely nothing to do with God or Abrahamic religions and you completely misunderstand the OT because in order to understand, you have to look at the context and what the neighbouring Pagan nations were doing at the time, such as human sacrifices. The Israelites in the OT weren't blameless always, of course, and God punished them too.

It's humans instigating the killing, not to mention demons and reptilian beings behind the scenes doing their best to corrupt humanity and turn humanity away from God. If humanity didn't engage in violence, there would've been no need for God act as he did in the OT.

As for why God doesn't intervene in our times? Man is on earth to evolve and mature. If God were to intervene too prematurely, it would interfere with the maturing process, which is why Christ gave the parable of the harvest.

A farmer cannot sort the wheat from the tares until the time is right for the harvest.



__________________
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"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (TROUBLE FOR THE WICKED): I the Lord do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7
God is pure and does not approve of evil. The word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew does not mean evil in the moral sense. Contextually, when God speaks of creating evil, he is speaking of the calamities that he brings upon the enemies of his purpose.
.

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Old 27-12-2017, 10:25 PM   #34
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Could also = DNA strands, could mean evolution, where one species or kind continue and one fall.
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Old 28-12-2017, 12:15 AM   #35
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Could also = DNA strands, could mean evolution, where one species or kind continue and one fall.
Any group that consistently intermarries and reproduces with close consanguinous relatives will lead to the dominance of defective genes and thus lead to a degradation of the species. We know this to be a fact.
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Old 28-12-2017, 12:51 AM   #36
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mranderson
Quote:
Originally Posted by mranderson View Post
I think it's got everything to do with Abraham but thats another story

I also think God is an invention of man and man uses God as an excuse to back up his desires

abrahams God told the Jewish people they are the chosen ones and you can do whatever you like to anyone else , pretty much

then abrahams God apparently inspired Jesus to say no that's quite right but also inspired another man made 2000 years of more skull splitting

and then for the finale of Abraham you have Mohammed who , apparently being the perfect man under God was told to go on a killing spree to stop the oppression he felt , all ways oppressed you see these men of God - all ways with a promise of further reward if you just do as we say

and of course from each of those Abrahamic systems comes the later interpretations of Man and the doctoring of language to reflect the political climate of the day

and people want to emulate the poltical climate of the middle east a couple of thousand years ago ?

go ahead , try applying that shit to a world that has opened it's heart to understanding we are all connected to the divine 100% of the time

the need for intermediaries between us and '' God '' is fast on the way out

I think this is what we are seeing with the last Abrahamic incarnation

the religion of peace is getting the exposure it deserves and will be bathed in the light of the truth like any other

if it survives intact , is not up to man
I also think God is an invention of man and man uses God as an excuse to back up his desires

God has not talked to any one. you can ask the wind question or the sea or the land you will not get a human responce. I can not speak out to god an have him speak to me in a human sounding voice. can one understand stand what the sea say or a rock or a tree.

lean to talk to all these things 1st. then maybe you may have a hope in hearing an understanding what GOD wants for us. Gods really only gift to us is the soul.

When Abraham was about to kill his child. He looked up in to the sky. before he drove his knife in to his child heart. when he walk down the hill @ Sodom an Gomorrah. an he asked what if I find x number of good men. an god say to him I will spare them.

HE walking down a goat trail OUT SIDE. what out side the Sky the trees an the Rocks. I'm not seeming any priest or holy men. that passage reads as if he walking an out side an alone.

Just like we all die. A lone.

That the problem with the divine UNDERSTANDING IT to this date I read nothing seen nothing human made that talks about God. there are no religions that understand what God is or how to talk to him.

The 1's that do are not a loud to say. They can point it out maybe using arts. an we have many.

These kind of topics filled the Forum when I got here. It took years kicking ass to have our Vet member's use straight up facts. Before this time 2 year people would be looking for a debate. In other word there not interested in facts. They interested in winning a fight. that 2 different frames of mind set. On 1 hand WE all want the facts. on the we want to be right.

surfer12; uses facts which are supported. I would say surfer12 fallowing God in way is good

If anyone murders, starts a war or commits a crime in the name of religion, they were never spiritual in the first place!!!

Churchianity is a wolf in sheep's clothing. It's the old Babylonian Pagan religion in disguise.

Churchianity is nothing less than the co-opting of spiritual principals by reptilian demons.

He dose not support the satanist words my bible an my gun. HE knows what GODS 1st law is n is willing to live under it

They have astro-turfed the world with lies and deceptions.

I've said it so many times, I do not support or promote Churchianity or any organised religion.

That, therefore, does away with the need for an intermediary between God and man.


surfer12 fit the criteria of Neo modern Christian. People who realize those teaching us religion really have Zero information. Because God don't spend a lot of time @ home. his home is every thing.

mranderson
the need for intermediaries between us and '' God '' is fast on the way out

I think this is what we are seeing with the last Abrahamic incarnation

the religion of peace is getting the exposure it deserves and will be bathed in the light of the truth like any other

if it survives intact , is not up to man


I've never need any religion or magic to do what I do. To have my place with God I have not needed religion I needed faith. only so long as I did not KNOW the truth. the second I knew Faith when out the window for the facts.

The sad fact is when we died very few have raise. an most say right here. this very huge problem in Asia

imagine a nations cutting down every tree in there land. an then complaining about air quality. this is what human mental virus is. We fuckin need those trees to breath. that fucking evil cutting DOWN EVERY tree. for farm land

this is the same primitive behaviors looping an the same for topic's.

If your NOT able to identify with the source want's. why should it help you. any one can make up there own shit an there own believe. it dose not make them facts.

Working Class Hero - John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziwsjE1O4Ow

Well I hope this helps
nice one surfer12 way more effective then a 2 sided debate.

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Old 28-12-2017, 05:57 AM   #37
ianw
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Any group that consistently intermarries and reproduces with close consanguinous relatives will lead to the dominance of defective genes and thus lead to a degradation of the species. We know this to be a fact.
There are species of fish that self fertilize yet their offspring maintain biodiversity, but we digress.
The parable is a metaphor relating to spiritual evolution.
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Old 28-12-2017, 07:41 AM   #38
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Could also = DNA strands, could mean evolution, where one species or kind continue and one fall.
you'd be surprised how often the strength of a species has no bearing on it's survival or extinction.

a given amount of animals from any species will always die and a given amount will always survive; often a species survival will come down to nothing but luck, coincidence, or extra-terrestrial intervention.
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Old 28-12-2017, 12:55 PM   #39
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I also think God is an invention of man and man uses God as an excuse to back up his desires
I think man often uses the excuse that God does not exist so that he feels he can do whatever he likes and not have to account for any wrongdoings, but that's just my opinion.

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God has not talked to any one. you can ask the wind question or the sea or the land you will not get a human responce. I can not speak out to god an have him speak to me in a human sounding voice. can one understand stand what the sea say or a rock or a tree.

lean to talk to all these things 1st. then maybe you may have a hope in hearing an understanding what GOD wants for us. Gods really only gift to us is the soul.
Again this is only an opinion. It's not possible to know for a fact that there is no God.

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When Abraham was about to kill his child. He looked up in to the sky. before he drove his knife in to his child heart.
cinder,

Where did you get the idea that Abraham killed his son? That's not what the book of Genesis says at all!
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"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (TROUBLE FOR THE WICKED): I the Lord do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7
God is pure and does not approve of evil. The word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew does not mean evil in the moral sense. Contextually, when God speaks of creating evil, he is speaking of the calamities that he brings upon the enemies of his purpose.
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Old 28-12-2017, 07:51 PM   #40
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@ surfer & cinder

sometimes the way I say things sounds drastic and final , bad habit of mine

when I said God is an invention of man used to back up his desires I didn't mean there is no god or no divine source

of course there is a creator , a divine , a source of all that is

I believe personally that we are energy first and matter second , no matter would exist without the energy infusing it and binding it together

but the reason I personally don't appreciate the Abrahamic religions is because of what they inspire

there are , without doubt , incredible insights into the human condition and our relationship with the creator in the works inspired from Abraham

what is the line '' ye shall know them by their fruits '' ?

little things like that , or Solomons '' there is nothing new under the sun ''

when it comes to the fruits line , we shall know them by their fruits , this to me is one of the ironies of ironies when it comes to Abrahamic beliefs

we shall know them by their fruits

we shall know them by their deeds not their words , but their actions

so how do they act these representatives of the abrahamic faiths ?

on an individual level it can produce great acts of kindness but as you said , the human condition plays a part and collectively the three branches of Abraham are rotten fruits

Namaste would be a good word to use here , because the spirit in me recognizes the spirit in you and I would no more make fun of that than I would of death

but the rest ? insisting that on the one hand corruption and an astro turf of lies covers the truth ?

what is the truth of the spirit ? that it is bound to a creator ? or part of an ever changing dance ?

is the creation also the destruction ? is it both ?

would it inspire to murder for the sake of what ?

cleansing ?

I just cannot see it like that

I think what we know as Abrahmic faith is the will of a creature , not the creator , to me the faiths of Abraham are the will of the creature and the desires of man together blocking the creator from inspiring us

I have noticed how far from love all three faiths take people while all three scream of love in competition

false Gods indeed , IMO Abraham was inspired by a creature be it energetic or physical , maybe a bit of both

it's interesting talking to you both , thank you for being you
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It's symbolic of his struggle against reality
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