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Old 07-09-2017, 10:10 AM   #21
greatestiam
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Originally Posted by raburgeson View Post
It would be best to wait until man can create man spirit and all from scratch and make a universe before he can even claim equality.
God has yet to be shown to be able to do what you put.

We have had 2,000 years of war thanks mostly to religions run by the man spirit you speak of.

Does that record show a God who can create worthy moral man spirits?

You go ahead and set yourself below such a poor creator.

Look at secular law and recognize that you would not want to live under your creators law as like him, they are inferior laws to what man has put forward.

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Old 07-09-2017, 10:14 AM   #22
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wps. I think the linear simplistic version of god presented by man is a reflection of the thinking dominating. Ie. why did god create cures, as well as making disease's? I think the answers become more apparent when realising that you were given free will.

which is probably why the Satanists or whomever they are, throw everything in peoples faces, hence the subversion of their free will over life times



but honestly, planning to subvert peoples free will at such a sheer scale is beyond dodgy.
I agree that the mainstream religions are garbage and do a poor job of describing their war God as a loving God.

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Old 07-09-2017, 10:16 AM   #23
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So you are promoting a religion.... Gnostic Christianity?
That is against the forum rules so how are you allowed to do this?
I am likely allowed because all here promote their own ideologies.

How can a debate follow if we do not show our cards?

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Old 07-09-2017, 10:18 AM   #24
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God has yet to be shown to be able to do what you put.

We have had 2,000 years of war thanks mostly to religions run by the man spirit you speak of.

Does that record show a God who can create worthy moral man spirits?

You go ahead and set yourself below such a poor creator.

Look at secular law and recognize that you would not want to live under your creators law as like him, they are inferior laws to what man has put forward.

Regards
DL
The only bad (messed up a bit) creation was man - I think the creator got it right with the Earth and animals - it's a beautiful natural world.
And I've witnessed many a wild animal not kill each other when food is not scarce from man's greed.

Give the creator some slack - humans mess up all the time and even those who succeed at things messed up many times first.
If we are created in his/her (gender neutral I'm sure lol) likeness
why wouldn't we mess up things - but get it right eventually.
Why should the creator be perfect and aren't we learning things like perfection isn't always what you are told it is?
Beauty is changing because we are starting to understand that.
Maybe we should recognise that people have beauty inside even evil people have good traits
we just need to recognise that more maybe they'd be less evil.

Isn't that what life is all about? Learning from mistakes?
Even if you believe in reincarnation that's coming back to get it right eventually.

Life is about progress.

According to those who bash the creator he should just give up on us and start again.
How would that work for you?

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Old 07-09-2017, 10:59 AM   #25
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We have experienced things that God has not. When we return to the light we will be wiser than he.
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Old 07-09-2017, 11:14 AM   #26
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The only bad (messed up a bit) creation was man - I think the creator got it right with the Earth and animals - it's a beautiful natural world.
Yes but he created heaven first and screwed that up by creating Satan.

As a Gnostic, I see the world and everything else as a piece of heaven just the way Jesus did.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

And I've witnessed many a wild animal not kill each other when food is not scarce from man's greed.

Quote:
Give the creator some slack
If I have to, then that God is defective.

Quote:
- humans mess up all the time and even those who succeed at things messed up many times first.
If we are created in his/her (gender neutral I'm sure lol) likeness
why wouldn't we mess up things - but get it right eventually.

Not if one is following one of the immoral mainstream religions like Christianity or Islam.

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Why should the creator be perfect and aren't we learning things like perfection isn't always what you are told it is?
No argument except that scriptures tell us that God is perfect, even though he is a genocidal son murdering prick.

Quote:
Beauty is changing because we are starting to understand that.
I would have said that beauty has always been the same but it is our understanding that is changing.

That is shown by many people rejecting the ugly and immoral mainstream religions.

Quote:
Maybe we should recognise that people have beauty inside even evil people have good traits
we just need to recognise that more maybe they'd be less evil.

Isn't that what life is all about? Learning from mistakes?
Even if you believe in reincarnation that's coming back to get it right eventually.

Life is about progress.
I agree and we are progressively rejecting immoral religions.

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According to those who bash the creator he should just give up on us and start again.
How would that work for you?
That depends.

On a reboot, will God kill us off like he did with Noah's flood, or will he do the moral thing and cure instead of kill?

I also recognize that if a God had not given up on us, he would be here to be relevant to us instead of absent.

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Old 07-09-2017, 11:17 AM   #27
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We have experienced things that God has not. When we return to the light we will be wiser than he.
We are already wiser that the mainstream Gods.

If those Gods were wise, they would have grown their religions by good works, deeds and arguments showing better ways. They did not have that so used Jihad and Inquisitions instead of good arguments and ways.

Both Christianity and Islam have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

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Old 09-09-2017, 05:15 AM   #28
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We have experienced things that God has not. When we return to the light we will be wiser than he.
God has experienced every pain imo so I doubt that. That's not a bad thing at all though.
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Old 09-09-2017, 09:31 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by greatestiam View Post
We are already wiser that the mainstream Gods.

If those Gods were wise, they would have grown their religions by good works, deeds and arguments showing better ways. They did not have that so used Jihad and Inquisitions instead of good arguments and ways.

Both Christianity and Islam have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

Regards
DL
>>We are already wiser that the mainstream Gods.

If they are truly gods.
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Old 09-09-2017, 09:32 AM   #30
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God has experienced every pain imo so I doubt that. That's not a bad thing at all though.
Well if God is connected to us then maybe he is feeling our pain. So why do we not feel his love in return?
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Old 09-09-2017, 11:15 AM   #31
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Scary thought but what if there are no good people and that's why this world is so messed up.
What if this is our last chance as bad people to save us from Hell?

Maybe if you are really bad you go straight to Hell but if you are not that bad you just come back here
until you believe or get bad enough to go to hell.

I had an open mind even though I believe in an afterlife I didn't believe in Hell apart from one you create for yourself.

It's actually near death experiences of Hell that have made me reconsider - not religion at all.

What if the reason this place is so messed up is because we are all the bad people that are trying not to go into Hell

That means calling us all sinners makes sense - plus saying only Jesus can save us makes sense
and reincarnation makes sense - we keep being given chances.

But that means we do have free will - but free will to choose heaven or hell
so don't blame God .

Yet we feel God abandoned us - but maybe that's because we are not good people
and you know how you cut yourself off from bad people?

We all know you can't help someone if they don't want to be helped right?
You know the alcoholic/drug addict that can never get better until they want to get better.

So ask for help and we'll get it.

Is life really that simple? Be as kind and loving as you can to others because this place is
the only way you can prove yourself to God that you are not going to be trouble in Heaven?

So why is Hell so bad? People who are bad here seem to enjoy themselves....or do they?
They are sad and unhappy and lonely....you see the rich that don't care about people they are
so low in self confidence they cut their faces up as they are never happy or love even themselves.
So Hell is maybe full of pain and anguish as that's who they are.

You think religion scares people.....look at Near Death experiences that selfish people have...
that's scary.

The meaning of life? To avoid coming back here or going to Hell I guess.
This place is better than Hell though even if some people are trying to create one here.

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Old 09-09-2017, 03:12 PM   #32
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God has experienced every pain imo so I doubt that. That's not a bad thing at all though.
Even the pain of reproduction?

You say that as if you can know or show it is true , --- when you have no way of knowing it.

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Old 09-09-2017, 03:16 PM   #33
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>>We are already wiser that the mainstream Gods.

If they are truly gods.
They are just man made constructs.

Made by ancient men and that is why they have not evolved to become civilized and moral.

They were not to be taken literally but were to be a guide for us but instead Christians and Muslims made idols out of their ways instead of just a path to follow and improve.

The intelligent ancients were replaced with clergy that were too stupid to be able to see and use the ways shown.

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Old 09-09-2017, 03:22 PM   #34
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So ask for help and we'll get it.
So God lets 10 million or so children and kids under 10 die yearly because they do not ask him for help.

Quite the prick that god of yours.

Do you only help your children when they ask or do you go by what they need?

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Old 09-09-2017, 07:44 PM   #35
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That depends.

On a reboot, will God kill us off like he did with Noah's flood, or will he do the moral thing and cure instead of kill?

I also recognize that if a God had not given up on us, he would be here to be relevant to us instead of absent.

Regards
DL
Absent in what way though? there are many people who would say that they feel close to God in their lives and definitely relevant in their lives.
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Old 09-09-2017, 07:46 PM   #36
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So God lets 10 million or so children and kids under 10 die yearly because they do not ask him for help.

Quite the prick that god of yours.

Do you only help your children when they ask or do you go by what they need?

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But what are the true needs of people? I reckon that even a lot of people who follow religion dont know their true needs and seeks Gods help purely for their own comfort and safety.
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Old 09-09-2017, 07:47 PM   #37
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We have experienced things that God has not. When we return to the light we will be wiser than he.
But if God is our essence then he/she experiences things through us
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Old 09-09-2017, 07:49 PM   #38
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Very true, I see many people today blaming God for all the wrongs in the world. In the beginning we were commanded by God when he created us to go forth and multiply, bear much fruit and have dominion. So we have been given all authority to rule and reign on this earth, it is our responsibility to look after all creation on earth.

Bearing much fruit refers to:

Galatians 5:22-23New King James Version (NKJV)

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
I agree. People need to stop complaining and start making a difference. Humans often blame their parents for a lot of their lifes problems so its no shock that they look to blame God for the state of the world.
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Old 09-09-2017, 09:17 PM   #39
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So God lets 10 million or so children and kids under 10 die yearly because they do not ask him for help.

Quite the prick that god of yours.

Do you only help your children when they ask or do you go by what they need?

Regards
DL
But if they go to Heaven that's a better place than being here in pain.
How do you know they didn't ask for help and get it?
The parents ask for help only when its too late usually - did they ask before?

Is he rescuing them from this place?

If your kid was a druggie and you helped them all the time that's called enabling.
If they ask for help you know they are ready to change for the better.
Do you know who or what you were before you came here?

What are these kids dying from?

Man made disorders and diseases? Abortion?

I don't think you should name call.
It shows a lack of intelligence.
You lose any respect in a debate by using language like that.

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Old 10-09-2017, 12:42 AM   #40
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Even the pain of reproduction?

You say that as if you can know or show it is true , --- when you have no way of knowing it.

Regards
DL


well you have no way of knowing whether 'god' has lived as a woman (or not). What I said is my truth.. We are living in the dream time.
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