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Old 28-08-2011, 03:34 PM   #21
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This summer I have been mapping the exposures of the moon pyramid so that we can generate a cross section.
I will treat the exposures as though it is real geology, ignoring the fact I believe it is a pyramid.
It is my aim to have a detailed map of the whole valley in the coming months. I will send you my field data if you wish.
Great!
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Old 28-08-2011, 03:42 PM   #22
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The Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun is not the only example of an incredible 'Great' pyramid to have the apexes of its corners removed.

The Bent Pyramid in Egypt also has its lower courses of the apex removed. Remember, the only places we are allowed to dig thanks to ridiculous protection orders are the lower courses. Its not unimaginable that the same thing that happened to the Bent pyramid also happened in Visoko. Nothing new under the Sun 'n' all that shizz....
Yes that's the first thing that I imagined when I read the angle was destroyed. This and "What a pity!" (no "Ah-ha!" at all!) It was then when I hoped that the "steps" of the pyramid could still be aligned, if found on both sides.
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Old 28-08-2011, 05:13 PM   #23
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Gosh.
Why then did Sara Acconci want to look for the corner this year? (instead of digging here)
And why do the two faces that form the corner not go parallel to the ground but in its depth, if the ground makes the shape of a pyramid?
Because unfortunatly, since the time of the excavation critics and enemies of truthful knowledge have destroyed the exposed corners. The public can no longer see the apex, which is a more convincing piece of evidence for the layman.

Here is the same site photographed by me last year. Sorry its dark, i arrived at the site just after sunset..

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Old 28-08-2011, 06:25 PM   #24
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Because unfortunatly, since the time of the excavation critics and enemies of truthful knowledge have destroyed the exposed corners. The public can no longer see the apex, which is a more convincing piece of evidence for the layman.

Here is the same site photographed by me last year. Sorry its dark, i arrived at the site just after sunset..



I'm really sorry, but (apart from the fact that I can't see the same place in the pictures, are you sure you got to the same point?) the way you say it, it makes no sense...
Destroyed or not, the Foundation had the location of a corner and could expose the rest, instead of going looking for another in a completely different place.
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Old 28-08-2011, 06:32 PM   #25
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If you think a little about it, there is only one explanation to this lack of geological expertise in the Foundation team...

Irna
not a valid point in the least. in fact its a pathetic overly used scientific mind ploy. where geologists are invited yet do not go makes state ments like this infantile and petty.

if no geologist goes, none can opine, because pictures arent enough data for an opinion. The suggestion that they are is indicative of the same snails pace scientific approach that get people like newton and galileo in hot water with idiots.
The ego of science is validation from the external community, a codependant babe on a nipple approach that denies the truth of history, so damningly evident in oddities like the pyramid and all seeing eye carvings in central america as well as the manga bowls semitic cuneiform in the same location.

Science is really certain the hopi prophecy is jibberish yet scientists in their need to feel accepted by everyone but themselves, throw away some of the most astounding things just to satisfy their ability to find comfort in each other. Hence nothing but religious fanatics barring the beauty of true science.

Another punch it the face of these freaks,,,, the vimanas, the inscriptions at abyddos. Phd's dont mean shit if the holders are just insecure fanatics.

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Old 28-08-2011, 07:00 PM   #26
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"Lot of work and much money"???
Exactly 23 euros per year
And for the time, let's say it's a hobby for the holidays. You won't see me much in the next weeks, as soon as the semester begins.

Let me ask you something in my turn: Have you ever asked these same questions to the people who devote their time and efforts to the 'pyramids'? who run blogs and spend hours on various forums in order to convince the world that they exist? to Richard, to Prof. Debertolis, to Nenad Djurdjevic? Why should I have some hidden motives, and not they???

Irna

PS: if you really want to know my hidden motive, there it is: I hate bad science and pseudoscience. I could have written about homeopathy, or astrology... But that is not really in my area of expertise :-). When the 'pyramids affair' began, it happens that I had both the language skill (in 2006 it was not so easy as it now is to have access to the original documentation in Bosnian) and the scientific background (geomorphology, plus some experience in archaeology), so that I became involved in the forum discussions about it, then decided to summarize my documentation and opinions on a website.
Thanks for your response,
just thought about your motives
And to your question:
No, i haven`t ask anyone of them about their reasons, because for my opinion it is obvious.
They want to explore, they want to find and if they find they can change our history.
In every new post or video you find enthusiasm and joy about their work and their progress, so for myself there was no reason to question it.
Maybe a bit credulous from my side, but i`m a believer,sorry
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Old 28-08-2011, 07:47 PM   #27
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I once saw a scheme of how the hills could be formed by inclination of natural layers and later corrosion, but it seems to me that this is no more possible if the layers' inclinations are variable in different points of the pyramids.
1) The time of sedimentation is very long, several million years in the case of the middle-upper Miocene of Sarajevo-Zenica basin. During this time, the region was tectonically active, so that there were periods of emersion, the layers already sedimented could be deformed; then the lake is filled again, and another layer is deposed horizontally above the deformed ones (see the link about unconformities I put in my previous post), so that you may have very different dips depending of the layer.

2) After the end of the sedimentation (at the end of the Miocene), the layers were again deformed; but the deformations are not equal on every point. The stresses are not equally spread, and the layers do not react in the same way (depending of their lithology). So that, again, it's not very surprising to see this variety of dips. But it would be much more difficult, I think, to build something with so much layers and different slopes!

Irna
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Old 28-08-2011, 07:58 PM   #28
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I'm really sorry, but (apart from the fact that I can't see the same place in the pictures, are you sure you got to the same point?) the way you say it, it makes no sense...
Destroyed or not, the Foundation had the location of a corner and could expose the rest, instead of going looking for another in a completely different place.
I think that what Truthseeker wanted to say is that this place is in the part of the slope that is protected as National Monument. You probably know that there was a medieval fortress on the top of Visocica, that is protected. But what fewer people know is that around and below this fortress there was a medieval settlement. So that in 2007 the Commission for the Protection of National Monuments decided to extend the protected zone for fear that the Foundation excavations could damage or destroy these medieval remains. That's probably why these excavations of 2006/2007 are now abandoned.

However, I think - that is a personal opinion - that even if the Foundation were permitted to dig along the whole 'corner', they wouldn't do it, because the structure of the hill would become apparent - but you do not have to believe me :-)

Irna
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Old 28-08-2011, 08:09 PM   #29
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not a valid point in the least. in fact its a pathetic overly used scientific mind ploy. where geologists are invited yet do not go makes state ments like this infantile and petty. [...]
Sorry, I understood nothing of your post, except this little part:

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if no geologist goes, none can opine, because pictures arent enough data for an opinion.
But there have been several geologists in Visoko, some invited by Semir Osmanagic himself. I have mentioned some in this post and more on my website. Amer Smailbegovic, Robert Schoch, Sejfubin Vrabac, Stjepan Coric, Enes Ramovic... all have been there, have studied the 'pyramids' for a few hours or a few days, or even a few weeks, and all say the same... What is more, most of them (Smailbegovic, Schoch, Coric, Ramovic for instance) were willing to help Osmanagic, and were willing to accept his theories at the beginning.

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Old 28-08-2011, 10:28 PM   #30
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thats a decent argument especially here
http://irna.lautre.net/IMG/pdf/Geo_Vis_Eng_806.pdf

But even if the pyramid isnt manmade it was used very early on .
I am witholding judhement. some of the rock structures just dont look naturally occuring to me . which isnt to say either way. The thing that leads me to think they arent man made are the slope of the stone layers the angle isnt consistent with normal stone and brick laying that youd see in other antiquated structures.

. But I unlike most programmed wankologists do believe there is a probability of stone being the result of a poured medium as in south america where the would be carved features look moulded.

Scientists are too literally darwinian for the most part, and belief clouds the arrival at more profound truths that shed a much different light on history. Moreover scientists still regard the church inspired mannerisms highly. the conditional openmindedness that couyld kill or validate claims the hopis make about there being 4ages of earth.

to still unexplained things like puma punu. A ston strcture built from stone thats a 9 in hardness and incredibly detailed and fine carvings for construction use on the blocks.



My point is science hates discomfort and has a long cover up track record regarding it. The right geologist hasnt beento bosnia yet.
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Old 29-08-2011, 07:54 AM   #31
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thats a decent argument especially here
http://irna.lautre.net/IMG/pdf/Geo_Vis_Eng_806.pdf

But even if the pyramid isnt manmade it was used very early on .
I am witholding judhement. some of the rock structures just dont look naturally occuring to me . which isnt to say either way. The thing that leads me to think they arent man made are the slope of the stone layers the angle isnt consistent with normal stone and brick laying that youd see in other antiquated structures.

. But I unlike most programmed wankologists do believe there is a probability of stone being the result of a poured medium as in south america where the would be carved features look moulded.

Scientists are too literally darwinian for the most part, and belief clouds the arrival at more profound truths that shed a much different light on history. Moreover scientists still regard the church inspired mannerisms highly. the conditional openmindedness that couyld kill or validate claims the hopis make about there being 4ages of earth.

to still unexplained things like puma punu. A ston strcture built from stone thats a 9 in hardness and incredibly detailed and fine carvings for construction use on the blocks.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITpgQogb8XQ

My point is science hates discomfort and has a long cover up track record regarding it. The right geologist hasnt beento bosnia yet.
The right geologist? That sounds a little like 'keeping asking different people until you get the answer you want'.

It shouldn't matter which geologist you send, the rocks will be the same and the interpretations should also be the same.

I have no doubt that there has been human habitation on this hill, and that there are genuine human artefacts, and even the tunnels may well be historic mines, but it is not a pyramid. Nothing I have seen in the rock formations exposed by the volunteers has convinced me that they are anything other than geological formations tilted by local folding.

Your contempt for science is all too common on this forum and is disappointing. The point of science is not to hold back knowledge and understanding, but to provide a framework within which phenomena can be explored and a route by which a certainty is only declared as such when all possibilities have been explored and all the evidence is in. What the pyramid promoters have done is declare it a pyramid, then look around for evidence to prove it, ignoring all evidence that shows it isn't and dismissing naysayers with insults.

The corner picture is a prime example of this. The 'missing corner' is just a ridge in the ground that they have assumed is corner, dug up, found it isn't the shape of a corner, so have decided it has been stolen. It is not stolen, it was never there. The picture of the Egyptian pyramid posted to demonstrate that corners can go missing shows important evidence of a pyramid behind it - these pictures do not.

There are papers presented at conferences that are waved as definitive proofs when they are nothing more than poorly referenced conjecture pieces, and it is the fact that they have been presented at conferences that is being used to legitimise the evidence, not the evidence itself.

We're also expected to take seriously a home made invented instrument being waved around as proof that this is a direct link to Mars made by an ancient alien civilisation - bit of a leap, no? Geomagnetism is not evidence of an alien hand, and what's being done there is pretty much the Emporer's new clothes. Very little effort is made to explain properly what is being measured, how it is being measured (sampling strategy, repeated measurements, formal methodology etc etc), and most importantly what other possible explanations there might be for the measurements they get - that is what a scientist should be doing, not saying there are aliens here, waving a meter around and going "LOOK - SEE!!".
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Old 29-08-2011, 10:26 AM   #32
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Hey, Posidon, you are much too optimistic :-)
I never "agreed with the Foundation", I just told Richard it was a good idea to make this detailed map. I don't know what the Foundation will make of it. In fact, I actually doubt that Semir Osmanagic is interested in science at all, as the last years have shown...

Irna
A shame you don´t, i would like to see people with your skills, currently involving on this project, i feel beside your position about man made Pyramids or not, your expertise will be of a major benefit to the project, i still hope to see you one day front to front with Sam, for sure will be an interesting debate.

Just for curiosity, what is your academic formation?
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Old 29-08-2011, 12:08 PM   #33
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The right geologist hasnt beento bosnia yet.
Same remark as Moving Finger: what would be "the right geologist" for you?

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Old 29-08-2011, 12:19 PM   #34
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A shame you don´t, i would like to see people with your skills, currently involving on this project, i feel beside your position about man made Pyramids or not, your expertise will be of a major benefit to the project, i still hope to see you one day front to front with Sam, for sure will be an interesting debate.

Just for curiosity, what is your academic formation?
Well, I already have a job I love, and would not leave it even for the pleasure of contradicting Mr. Osmanagic
Frankly, the Foundation could easily find a skilled geologist and/or geomorphologist; as far as I know, there are lots of underemployed young or even older graduates in Bosnia. The problem is that I know few correct scientists who would accept to see their reports heavily edited when they don't match with the Foundation 'official truth'

As for your question, my academic background is geomorphology.

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Old 29-08-2011, 02:45 PM   #35
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The right geologist? That sounds a little like 'keeping asking different people until you get the answer you want'.

It shouldn't matter which geologist you send, the rocks will be the same and the interpretations should also be the same.

I have no doubt that there has been human habitation on this hill, and that there are genuine human artefacts, and even the tunnels may well be historic mines, but it is not a pyramid. Nothing I have seen in the rock formations exposed by the volunteers has convinced me that they are anything other than geological formations tilted by local folding.

Your contempt for science is all too common on this forum and is disappointing. The point of science is not to hold back knowledge and understanding, but to provide a framework within which phenomena can be explored and a route by which a certainty is only declared as such when all possibilities have been explored and all the evidence is in. What the pyramid promoters have done is declare it a pyramid, then look around for evidence to prove it, ignoring all evidence that shows it isn't and dismissing naysayers with insults.

The corner picture is a prime example of this. The 'missing corner' is just a ridge in the ground that they have assumed is corner, dug up, found it isn't the shape of a corner, so have decided it has been stolen. It is not stolen, it was never there. The picture of the Egyptian pyramid posted to demonstrate that corners can go missing shows important evidence of a pyramid behind it - these pictures do not.

There are papers presented at conferences that are waved as definitive proofs when they are nothing more than poorly referenced conjecture pieces, and it is the fact that they have been presented at conferences that is being used to legitimise the evidence, not the evidence itself.

We're also expected to take seriously a home made invented instrument being waved around as proof that this is a direct link to Mars made by an ancient alien civilisation - bit of a leap, no? Geomagnetism is not evidence of an alien hand, and what's being done there is pretty much the Emporer's new clothes. Very little effort is made to explain properly what is being measured, how it is being measured (sampling strategy, repeated measurements, formal methodology etc etc), and most importantly what other possible explanations there might be for the measurements they get - that is what a scientist should be doing, not saying there are aliens here, waving a meter around and going "LOOK - SEE!!".
my contempt was clearly not for science , but thanks for being the traditionalist point perverter, its so refreshing to know , where 'er one goes on the web there are armies of people prepared to take what you say and twist it then accuse you of saying what you havent.


science is a beautiful thing, its too bad science is safeguarded by a pack of asskissing idiots for the most part. science would be much more appetizing if it werent run by people sucking the establishments ass and cock and bending over to take a sandy dick from the rothschilds.
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Old 29-08-2011, 02:53 PM   #36
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Same remark as Moving Finger: what would be "the right geologist" for you?

Irna
you and the other monkey seeing what I wrote yet replying like giddy monkeys offered a bannana for a trick done right

take my hand let me show you what I mean and grab the other trolls hand i will speak slowly.

the right geologist is brilliant, and totally honest, ok ? with me? but hes she's open minded enough to consider the idea that this could be man made.

See the brilliant part is missing in bosnia , and in the threads here pertaining to bosnia. obviously if you missed the inferrance that I might say exactly what i just said about the right geo man, given the support for the pdf i offered,,,,,,,,

yeah learning learning everywhere yet none of brilliant think.

STC

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Old 29-08-2011, 02:57 PM   #37
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"Aren't pyramids brilliant?
Even when they're not pyramids,
like this pyramid behind me,
they're still brilliant!"
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Old 29-08-2011, 03:33 PM   #38
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the right geologist is brilliant, and totally honest, ok ? with me? but hes she's open minded enough to consider the idea that this could be man made.
According to the report by the geologist Stjepan Coric, Visocica was formed of
Quote:
Lasva series conglomerate and breccia (which can be found all over the Zenica region)", which "lay above fine-grained to medium-grained sandstones, sandy marls and so on, generally of brown and yellow colour... On the top (of the plateau), in a trench under the road, can be found sandstone of a thickness of some 25-30 cm (interpreted as a step). Overlying this same sandstone can be found further classic examples of the sort of layers that exist in this area. The same layer can also be seen near the road in a cutting, proof that its position is completely natural ... The conglomerates, containing roughly rounded elements, lie partly over the breccia and are of natural origin... The regular geometric form of some hills in these parts seems to be a natural feature that occurs quite frequently – a consequence of erosion ...
According to the geologist Enes Ramovic:
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The layers of slab-like sandstone, containing regular geometrical arrangements of blocks, particularly on the south-west part of the terrain at the foot of the Pyramid of the Moon, and the regular disposition and extension of the joints between the rows of sandstone slabs, are interstratified with layers of marl and clay. This means that, above and underneath them lie concordant layers of marl and clay - normally deposited one above the other. Because of this, it will be immediately evident, as it was to the author of this report, that these layers of horizontal sandstone were not placed during construction of the pyramid, but are rather the normal product of lacustrine sedimentation; and that the joints were created during the process of sandstone lithification; in other words, they represent contraction joints ...
In other words, geologists considered that what they were being presented with were geological phenomena. They didn't think that there was evidence of human intervention.
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Old 29-08-2011, 03:47 PM   #39
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According to the report by the geologist Stjepan Coric, Visocica was formed of

According to the geologist Enes Ramovic:

In other words, geologists considered that what they were being presented with were geological phenomena. They didn't think that there was evidence of human intervention.
I know i read it. But there is evidence of early humans , thats also in the report. The report only leaves that idea on the table and none other while some of the stone simply doesnt look naturally occurring. So the report isnt as open minded as I would have liked.

as I said I am on the fence, the conglomerates in the tunnel really dont support the manmade idea the angle of the rock slabs generally dont either; But i dont think the dig has really been conclusive either way. Though from my gut feeling it leans towards supporting the report. I just dont close my mind down because of it.
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Old 29-08-2011, 06:01 PM   #40
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the right geologist is brilliant, and totally honest, ok ? with me? but hes she's open minded enough to consider the idea that this could be man made.

See the brilliant part is missing in bosnia
Do you know who is really brilliant - at least according to Semir Osmanagic and the Foundation? Robert Schoch!
Just have a look at these old news that are still available on the Bosnian part of the Foundation website (you can have them translated with Google, using Croatian/English):
http://www.piramidasunca.ba/ba/index...471&Itemid=126
http://www.piramidasunca.ba/ba/index...456&Itemid=126
http://www.piramidasunca.ba/ba/index...443&Itemid=126

"The world leading geologist joins the excavations of the Bosnian pyramids"
"The Foundation is particularly pleased to announce that the world renowned geologist Robert Schoch is joining the research team..."
"From his rich scientific opus, one has to mention the books about the Great Sphinx..."
"The eminent American scientist..."

It seems that the Foundation considered him to be sufficiently brilliant. Here is his opinion about the pyramids:
http://www.robertschoch.com/bosniacontent.html
http://download.dailygrail.com/subro...ue6-Spread.pdf (pdf file)

Curiously, every elogious mention of Dr. Schoch disappeared from the English part of the Foundation website. There is still one link to a piece of news here (last link at the bottom of the page : Dr. Robert Schoch i dr. Collete Dowel stigli u Visoko - Dr. Schoch and Dr. Dowell arrived in Visoko), but the news itself had its title changed, and every mention of Schoch has disappeared, even if there are still photographs of him and Dowell in the "gallery" page

So, if even a "world leading geologist" (and who has proved he is open minded, see his work about the Sphinx) is not sufficiently brilliant, who will be???

Irna
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