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Old 30-04-2015, 12:38 PM   #16741
getagrip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Getagrip View Post
Moderators Note:

Please stick to discussing the thread topic and leave out the point scoring digs aimed towards other members.

You all know this already, ( there have been enough notices given) but still it continues day after day.


If it continues, thread will have to be temporarily closed and cleaned up of off topic and I understand that no one wants this to happen.


Get a grip
I have removed several off topic posts which seemed to come about by confusion. As this has now been read, understood and resolved please lets have no more. Back on topic.

Last edited by Getagrip; 30-04-2015 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 30-04-2015, 12:38 PM   #16742
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Originally Posted by nathanhale View Post
I find it disturbing how some people focus on and repeat the graphic depictions of child abuse that constitute a form of covert pornography yet avoid such common sense things such as posting babies in boxes, making shoes from their skin at the local cobblers and cooking and eating them in a specially adapted mcdonalds.

It seems they are using confirmation bias to avoid letting the fantasy end for aslong as possible, like they're delaying climax as they can't usually get this kind of 'buzz' or 'camaraderie' or 'acceptance' in public. They're clearly intoxicated by this, as shown by their actions.
The psychology of the True Cult Believers is interesting, if sometimes tragic as in the case of Neelu Berry who is now being fully exploited by all three of the main hoax organisers - Sabine, Belinda and Jacqui Farmer (a false name).

What is more concerning is that these people, and presumably their backroom staff, are not just "a bit swept up with the hysteria" or a bit gullible or whatever. These are serious, well resourced, organised, funded and very malicious people who have committed a catalogue of criminal acts in this case alone.

Their apparent protection from prosecution, and thus Home Office backing, is quite alarming when one stops to think about it.

They are hurting and recklessly endangering real people and real children, they are committing real and continual acts of harassment. They are committing fraud with fake charities. They are ensnaring vulnerable gullible people some of whom have already been arrested and charged gaining criminal records based on a deliberate hoax.
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Old 30-04-2015, 12:40 PM   #16743
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Originally Posted by oreally View Post
- according to the Pauffley judgement, visits to the Tavistock took place between May 2010 and October 2013 'Intermittent therapeutic sessions at the Tavistock Clinic'

- according to ED's own chronology, around the end of 2009 (dates are a bit unclear, this might not have been until 2010), P returns from Russia, ED's older son has started counselling at Tavistock. Soon after ED starts to take 'P and Q to see psychologist CB too'. RD is invited to one session, ED says he was rude and argumentative with CB (psychologist).

- she also states (without dates) that she had attended a positive parenting course and was due to start a second course on 9th Sept, and that she twice approached the school for referrals to the Tavistock.

- according to the Joint Strategy Meeting held on 9th Sept, 'Several referrals were made to CAMHS and Tavistock in the past that ED did not attend.'
Quote:
Originally Posted by rory123 View Post
Something tells me some posters in this thread haven't actually read the full thread.
While I do admit to falling asleep during periods of intense bickering, here I was simply making a point about Tavistock. As you've observed the thread is huge, swamped with guff and many circular discussions. Read my comments again (if you have the stomach for it) in the context of the other comments on that page.

Edit: Thanks for taking the time to recap the Tavistock information by the way. Appears that nothing was missed.

Last edited by bsharp; 30-04-2015 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 30-04-2015, 12:42 PM   #16744
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meta - The Pauffley judgement states that they went to Morocco, via Gibraltar in 'early August', and that they returned to the UK on 4th September 2014.
thanks for that O'really.
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Old 30-04-2015, 12:43 PM   #16745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oreally View Post
I'm not infected with 'satanic panic', but I am also not convinced that the police investigation was as thorough as it could have been. It seems very strange to me that they should interview RD specifically about an allegation of abuse at the swimming pool, but then not secure a specific retraction from child Q in relation to this allegation. That said, I am also very aware that we do not have the full information about what exactly was done as part of the investigation.
Yes we talked about this, even the way the report was written and I said it was worse than mine and that is saying something.

It needs cleaning up, proper resources put into. People who have no links/mates involved to investigate child abuse and such.
Untill all changes are made a proper investigation will not happen with any child abuse case.
They system is overloaded and corrupted
We need to change the system to reduce the cover up, the fucks up so on so on.
Weather this case is true or not.
Until then nothing will change.

PS why do you think pedo's get of with the crimes they commit or get a light sentence?
Because the system is fucked up .
I am not distracting the issue, but unless the above happens, then issues that has come up in this case and many others such as bad reports putting doubt into peoples heads ,nothing but confusion..
This will just carry on.
Can you see what am saying?

ps again. I do think children should have a choice in whom they want to interview them, ie a man or a woman, then this would sort out that issue.

Last edited by baboshka1; 30-04-2015 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 30-04-2015, 12:46 PM   #16746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Getagrip View Post
I have removed several off topic posts which seemed to come about by confusion. As this has now been read, understood and resolved please lets have no more. Back on topic.
thanks
Less confusion then
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Old 30-04-2015, 01:40 PM   #16747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baboshka1 View Post
thanks
Less confusion then
And hopefully less Coffee Breaks required.

Last edited by lobuk; 30-04-2015 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 30-04-2015, 01:56 PM   #16748
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Led you are getting as naughty as silent :P

I just checked this that silent had posted.
https://orderoftruth.wordpress.com/2...buse-radio4-2/
Quote:
In a turn of events, it appears that the ‘Association of McKenzie Friends’ (part of the group making false claims of a Hampstead child abuse cult) has links to a particularly nasty group of renowned paedophiles.

We previously reported how the ‘Association of McKenzie Friends’, and in particular their leaders, Belinda McKenzie and Sabine McNeill, are the driving force behind a vicious campaign of harassment against the residents of a Hampstead community where two children (after being prompted by their mother, Ella Draper) made bizarre allegations of a satanic child abuse ring.

The campaign was recently featured on a Radio 4 programme, ‘The Report – The Satanic Cult that Wasn’t’, aired on Thursday 23rd April.

Taking a closer look at the ‘Association of McKenzie Friends’ it appears as though renowned fraudster – and business associate of convicted paedophiles -, Terence Ewing, was an ‘Advisor’ to the ‘association’, and McKenzie and McNeill feature in a promotional photograph with him after one of his (many) court cases. cont.. via link

Last edited by baboshka1; 30-04-2015 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 30-04-2015, 02:16 PM   #16749
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So, as of late, many have agreed that we have to question a quite few things about the police investigation.
Some of the issues below are 'new' (- i.e. the last few days), some are more long-standing.
I think it's useful to document them all together (at the risk of bringing stuff up we already covered, sorry folks!).

I'm begining with some of the things which stick in my memory..please feel free to add to this.


1//
=======
RoastPotaoes made a very good point in this post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by roastpotatoes View Post
[snip]at least half a year to a year before the examination" [snip]
- that Dr. Hodes stated the "injurues occurred at least half a year to a year before the examination" (This is in the document titled "14 12 22 Chronology of events", on page 2)
-RD may be somewhat cleared if this can be verified AND if RD never went to the school, behind mum's back.
-Why, then, did the police not:
a) record the seizure (in the crime report) of CCTV from the school…?
Or
b) secure a statement from RD or any of the teachers regarding visits to the school.
-It becomes important to verify this if:
"my dad lies to my mum... he sees us every day in school"

2//
=======
-We also have to ask why the police did not seize/record RD's phone (with, at least, photos in swimming baths of the kids)
-RD admitted himself he took photos of them in the changing rooms. Details in this post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by incensed View Post
.
3//
=======
-RD's computer was not mentioned in the CRIS report as being seized. Same as 2//.

4//
=======
-Child G made what seemed to be coherent statements about sniffing white powder so why did the police not search RD's house for at least the presence of drugs?

5//
=======
-We have poor-quality searches for other evidence e.g.
-no ultrasound or Ground-Penetrating Radar searches for dungeons (just looking thru windows)
-evidence for drawers in the vestry which may or may not have stored baby or foetus skulls, but were "too shallow" to fit skulls inside (how small is a foetus skull? baby skull?)
-door to the 'secret room' existed but the room was considered unsecretive, and not examined/swabbed.
-evidence for the existence of a fridge which may or may not have been used to store baby body parts but was not forensically examined/swabbed.

6//
=======
Tattoos/birthmarks - not checked though alleged AND drawings made.

7//
=======
Social contacts of the subjects of the allegations were not examined.

8//
=======
Hair strands - did any results show up for drugs other than THC? (remember, G alleged white powder sniffing)


9//
=======
Inconsistencies in the retractions.
- G didn't actually retract all his allegations.
- Zorro was mentioned first by the Police Officer, not the children - (Leading!)
- Police officer actually talked about the episode in the car, prior to the 'retraction' where they discussed what woud later be said in the interview.

10//
========
The other kids- named in the "mothers statement" no investigation into their welfare, to our knowledge



Conclusion:
==========
So, Judicial Review, Serious Case Review, Criminal trial?
Let's ask the police, and ED+AC:
Will any of them bring a criminal case against RD, KF and MrH. for example?
(I think we know the police's answer!)
MET Commissioner Hogan-Howe scuppered a Judicial Review request.



APPENDIX:
==========
Also I'm appending the "police list" above with a few issues I am still very unclear about.
- Why did ED name the first husband as a perpetrator; it does seem unlikely to me that both RD and first hubby are involved separately.
- ED appears to have a record of neglect/abuse, to complement RD's violence (admitted in BBC interview).
- The involvement of Sab+Bel, and the possiblity that they are agents (though their actions are likely the very reason that we are here discussing this is important to remember, they have acted bizarrely at some times.)
- EDIT Dr. Hodes medical report - -even after she was aware of the 'retraction' interviews, she still appeared to stand by her assertion that injuries were caused by blunt force trauma and even cited studies re false retractions particularly in young children where the alleged abuser is a parent.



EDIT:
added correct name of document cited by RoastPotatoes.

Last edited by incensed; 30-04-2015 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 30-04-2015, 02:27 PM   #16750
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@ oreally

i know you are interested in the timeline aspect of things. it would be really valuable to put this up in its entirety so we can add to it bits and pieces that either add or dont add up and other bits of info as a living update of info we have...and keep updating.
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Old 30-04-2015, 02:48 PM   #16751
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The police investigation is indeed open to criticism but of course none of that refutes the obvious conclusion that the Hampstead Cult is a fabricated, exploited hoax.
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Old 30-04-2015, 03:01 PM   #16752
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Wrong link. This is the information to verify that if sexual abuse did occur, it happened at least 6 months to one year PRIOR to September 2014. That's what Dr Hodes said.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?...jkzX3IwLXRKUFk
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Old 30-04-2015, 03:11 PM   #16753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incensed View Post
So, as of late, many have agreed that we have to question a quite few things about the police investigation.
Some of the issues below are 'new' (- i.e. the last few days), some are more long-standing.
I think it's useful to document them all together (at the risk of bringing stuff up we already covered, sorry folks!).

I'm begining with some of the things which stick in my memory..please feel free to add to this.


1//
=======
RoastPotaoes made a very good point in this post: - that Dr. Hodes stated the "injurues occurred at least half a year to a year before the exaination" (apparently this is in the full CRIS report, though I cannot find it!! Maybe it's in the medical report?)
-RD may be somewhat cleared if this post can be verified AND if RD never went to the school, behind mum's back.
-Why, then, did the police not:
a) record the seizure (in the crime report) of CCTV from the school…?
Or
b) secure a statement from RD or any of the teachers regarding visits to the school.
-It becomes important to verify this if:
"my dad lies to my mum... he sees us every day in school"

2//
=======
-We also have to ask why the police did not seize/record RD's phone (with, at least, photos in swimming baths of the kids)
-RD admitted himself he took photos of them in the changing rooms. Details in this post:

3//
=======
-RD's computer was not mentioned in the CRIS report as being seized. Same as 2//.

4//
=======
-Child G made what seemed to be coherent statements about sniffing white powder so why did the police not search RD's house for at least the presence of drugs?

5//
=======
-We have poor-quality searches for other evidence e.g.
-no ultrasound or Ground-Penetrating Radar searches for dungeons (just looking thru windows)
-evidence for drawers in the vestry which may or may not have stored baby or foetus skulls, but were "too shallow" to fit skulls inside (how small is a foetus skull? baby skull?)
-door to the 'secret room' existed but the room was considered unsecretive, and not examined/swabbed.
-evidence for the existence of a fridge which may or may not have been used to store baby body parts but was not forensically examined/swabbed.

6//
=======
Tattoos/birthmarks - not checked though alleged AND drawings made.

7//
=======
Social contacts of the subjects of the allegations were not examined.

8//
=======
Hair strands - did any results show up for drugs other than THC? (remember, G alleged white powder sniffing)


9//
=======
Inconsistencies in the retractions.
- G didn't actually retract all his allegations.
- Zorro was mentioned first by the Police Officer, not the children - (Leading!)
- Police officer actually talked about the episode in the car, prior to the 'retraction' where they discussed what woud later be said in the interview.

10//
========
The other kids- named in the "mothers statement" no investigation into their welfare, to our knowledge


Conclusion:
==========
So, Judicial Review, Serious Case Review, Criminal trial?
Let's ask the police, and ED+AC:
Will any of them bring a criminal case against RD, KF and MrH. for example?
(I think we know the police's answer!)
MET Commissioner Hogan-Howe scuppered a Judicial Review request.



APPENDIX:
==========
Also I'm appending the "police list" above with a few issues I am still very unclear about.
- Why did ED name the first husband as a perpetrator; it does seem unlikely to me that both RD and first hubby are involved separately.
- ED appears to have a record of neglect/abuse, to complement RD's violence (admitted in BBC interview).
- The involvement of Sab+Bel, and the possiblity that they are agents (though their actions are likely the very reason that we are here discussing this is important to remember, they have acted bizarrely at some times.)
This is the information to verify that if sexual abuse did occur, it happened at least 6 months to one year PRIOR to September 2014. That's what Dr Hodes said. (the tenth document in the drive.)

https://drive.google.com/folderview?...jkzX3IwLXRKUFk
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Old 30-04-2015, 03:27 PM   #16754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastpotatoes View Post
This is the information to verify that if sexual abuse did occur, it happened at least 6 months to one year PRIOR to September 2014. That's what Dr Hodes said. (the tenth document in the drive.)

https://drive.google.com/folderview?...jkzX3IwLXRKUFk
cheers, i updated my original post with the name of the document and the page number.
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Old 30-04-2015, 03:39 PM   #16755
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Originally Posted by silent revolution View Post
38.64% yes and 50% no does not quite make 50/50 or are my eyes lying to me? Or are your eyes lying to you?

My mum has a picture of me naked being bathed in a large bathroom sink/basin by my grandmother when I was a baby. Does that make my mother a pedo? I'll bet plenty of parents have pictures of their kids half naked on a beach etc. Does that make all those parents pedos? And where is the proof that RD has naked pictures of his children on his computer? eh? And what about Abraham Christie and the child porn on his phone that was seized by the police? What about that? Christie is a saint?

Peace, love, harmony and wisdom
The boy says his dad has pictures of him when he was 1 year old while being abuse by him - not a picture of him naked in the bath.

RD computer was not sized and therefore there is no proof - you are right about that.

Where have you read/heard that AC has porn on his phone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by metaspiral View Post
To be honest in this day, age and current climate regarding child abuse, A deranged dad taking his two kids swimming and them abusing them in a disabled toilet, is not that far fetched.

The children's testimony ring true on those police interviews.

Rather than get bogged down in Silent's analysis of what would make a good or not good lubricant for abusing children. I'd go check the latest Hampstead research video, as there's some poignant and crucial information being disclosed, witness testimonies, 1st hand and jaw dropping honest information direct from the children's mouth.

If your inserting plastic willies into 9 year old children, I imagine you don't give much of a fuck what "lubricant" you use or if it hurts or not.

Look at the bigger picture. The boy actually describes the sensation as being "sticky, like glue" so you've actually substantiated what the boy was saying Silent.

That RD used the hair wax as a lubricant to abuse the boy.

Or did Abe coach them to say this and somehow know that RD carried "hair wax" on his person?

Seems a bit "far fetched?"

Meta
Quote:
Originally Posted by silent revolution View Post
Which allegations are not stupid? Also I used google translate and it tells me 'nouse' is a finnish word meaning 'arise'. I'm a little confused

Firstly that video is a slander and propaganda video made by a nut job who is trying to brainwash possibly well meaning people. Secondly, why bother to use any kind of lubricant if the person doesn't care if it hurts or not? Thirdly regarding the sensation being sticky and like glue, the boy also claims that he ejaculates a half litre of semen at a time and it having a consistency like urine.

I think some people want the allegations to be true. People will stop at nothing to fuel their delusions.

Peace, love, harmony and wisdom
The boy describes ejaculating in a way possible only if he had experienced it. He said that it happens when his dad touches him. When the policeman asks him' 'what when you were 4 years old?', the boy answers that it did not happen then, only now. And yes, a boy describing sperm like pee but sticky and white, makes perfect sense to me.
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Old 30-04-2015, 03:44 PM   #16756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miaoandbau View Post
The boy says his dad has pictures of him when he was 1 year old while being abuse by him - not a picture of him naked in the bath.

RD computer was not sized and therefore there is no proof - you are right about that.

Where have you read/heard that AC has porn on his phone?





The boy describes ejaculating in a way possible only if he had experienced it. He said that it happens when his dad touches him. When the policeman asks him' 'what when you were 4 years old?', the boy answers that it did not happen then, only now. And yes, a boy describing sperm like pee but sticky and white, makes perfect sense to me.
Good post miaoandbau, it's the little details like this that are getting fudged over by people.
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Old 30-04-2015, 03:45 PM   #16757
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Originally Posted by silent revolution View Post
Which the children both admitted in the final police videos that it they made it up; that nobody stuck anything up their bottoms.



The spoonlicks were all given by Abraham, and not the father. You are completely ignoring the final police video evidence to try to make your belief fit.



Peace, love, harmony and wisdom
Silent, I think that the people who think that he abuse took place, that there is a possible cover-up and above all that a proper investigation is needed, do not rely much on the farcical retraction videos, therefore binging those video up with them/us as evidence would be near to pointless, in other words, a waste of time.
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Old 30-04-2015, 03:50 PM   #16758
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.

Last edited by metaspiral; 30-04-2015 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 30-04-2015, 03:50 PM   #16759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incensed View Post
Ok, I apologise to baboshka. I find it hard to get the context of many of her posts because there is no 'quote' as to what she is referring to.
In that case it can appear 'spammy'.

Sorry Baboshka.

EDIT
I still however disagree with you baboshka; inasmuch as waxing legs and hair wax aren't the same.
And who knows what RD uses for hair wax? - could be Vaseline in a Hair-wax tub, for all we know.
Of course hair wax and the wax for hair removal are totally different. Hair wax has a similar consistency to Vaseline. Coconut hair waxes may appear harder than Vaseline, but they melt on contact with the skin.
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Old 30-04-2015, 03:55 PM   #16760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miaoandbau View Post
The boy describes ejaculating in a way possible only if he had experienced it. He said that it happens when his dad touches him. When the policeman asks him' 'what when you were 4 years old?', the boy answers that it did not happen then, only now. And yes, a boy describing sperm like pee but sticky and white, makes perfect sense to me.
But he didn't, you're misrepresenting what he said (or just repeating a misrepresentation you've read and heard e.g. on Jacqui Farmer's website.)

He described ejaculating during "sex parties" at the school, time unspecified as these had gone on for 3 years in his case, so aged 5 and up
He described half filling a large pop bottle
He said it was like wee

The "glue/sticky" reference was in describing something being spread on/in his bottom.

As I've said before, if you watch the whole of this police interview (no. 2) you will be able to see sufficient inaccuracies, contradictions, conflations & confusions, sexual ignorance etc not to mention that his knowledge of female anatomy came from his mother at bathtime -- *not* from supposed hundreds of real sexual experiences -- that it is significant evidence that the story is a concocted fabrication.

Last edited by ledingue; 30-04-2015 at 03:56 PM.
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