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Old 22-04-2017, 04:59 AM   #21
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The lady described a Rape. Why are people making excuses. There are no excuses for Rape.
You don't have to be 25 to know you don't go back to anyones house on the first date or second date for that matter, the girl in question was star struck with tom jones as most were in those days including my mum. We are expecting men to behave in a gentlemanly fashion, most stars in those days and now I presume are used to getting what they want and getting away with it, so it boils down to parental advice and care. I am sorry for her she shouldn't have gone to his hotel. I am 58 now but at 14 I knew not to go to a mans/boys room unless I wanted to do something more than play cards.
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Old 22-04-2017, 05:06 AM   #22
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The lady described a Rape. Why are people making excuses. There are no excuses for Rape.
Did she tell him she was 14? Champagne might look like soda but it dosent smell like it the bandwagon continues.
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Old 22-04-2017, 06:22 AM   #23
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I wouldn't have run from Robert Plant omg he was my hero although, I think I may have fainted if he tried to kiss me lol
Hey I wouldn't have turned down a smooch in the arms of David Cassidy lol, but as you say at 14 sex was definitely not on the agenda. I'm amazed at lots here knowing differently. I didn't have a particularly sheltered upbringing.

As for going back to a Star's hotel room, the girl in question was invited to MEET him, was fooled by the dozen or so other people present in the suite. Even an adult might not expect a naked man on the other side of the door in these circumstances. And a hotel room is not necessarily a bedroom
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Old 22-04-2017, 11:38 AM   #24
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Hey I wouldn't have turned down a smooch in the arms of David Cassidy lol, but as you say at 14 sex was definitely not on the agenda. I'm amazed at lots here knowing differently. I didn't have a particularly sheltered upbringing.

As for going back to a Star's hotel room, the girl in question was invited to MEET him, was fooled by the dozen or so other people present in the suite. Even an adult might not expect a naked man on the other side of the door in these circumstances. And a hotel room is not necessarily a bedroom
Half of my school year had lost their virginity by the time they were 15 mostly with each other though, not 40 year old pop stars
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Old 22-04-2017, 11:53 AM   #25
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The OP describes a Rape, Child rape at that and the immediate response from some is to try to defend the perpetrators actions? to generalise and find the one scenario where the offending adult male is innocent of child rape! she described intimidation, manipulation, pain, fear and confusion...Why not empathise with the victim. I am not btw condemning the named 'star' I am commenting on what has been posted here.
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Old 22-04-2017, 12:44 PM   #26
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The OP describes a Rape, Child rape at that and the immediate response from some is to try to defend the perpetrators actions? to generalise and find the one scenario where the offending adult male is innocent of child rape! she described intimidation, manipulation, pain, fear and confusion...Why not empathise with the victim. I am not btw condemning the named 'star' I am commenting on what has been posted here.
No one is defending rape, they are exploring the possibilities of it not being so black and white.
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Old 22-04-2017, 01:00 PM   #27
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No one is defending rape, they are exploring the possibilities of it not being so black and white.
The situation described was Rape in simple Black and white terms. Child rape at that. Whilst I agree that sometimes the edges may seem a little blurred in some other cases this is not one of them.Having zero tolerance on Rape is not a condemnation of mens behaviour it is condemnation of Rapists and Rape culture.
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Old 22-04-2017, 01:12 PM   #28
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The situation described was Rape in simple Black and white terms. Child rape at that. Whilst I agree that sometimes the edges may seem a little blurred in some other cases this is not one of them.Having zero tolerance on Rape is not a condemnation of mens behaviour it is condemnation of Rapists and Rape culture.
I have zero tolerance for rape, but I can still debate a case dealing with it.

What you're doing is claiming moral high ground and anyone who isn't on it with you is therefore pro rape.

Sometimes these stars are the victims of people trying to con cash out of them, for example.

All we have so far is her word it happened as she states from what Ive read about it.
Investigation ongoing.
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Old 22-04-2017, 01:24 PM   #29
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But that is not what is being discussed Tinfoil Hat is it, whether or not his celebrity status is seen as a cash cow by undesirables hoping to benefit financially. What is being offered is generalisations about female teenagers sexuality and morals, its victim blaming...helps no-one changes nothing.
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Old 22-04-2017, 01:48 PM   #30
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But that is not what is being discussed Tinfoil Hat is it, whether or not his celebrity status is seen as a cash cow by undesirables hoping to benefit financially. What is being offered is generalisations about female teenagers sexuality and morals, its victim blaming...helps no-one changes nothing.
It was just an example, like I said.
One that may prove to be true.

Nothings going to be changed and no one helped because we are debating this.

People generalise sometimes, its human nature.
But generalisations often have truth in them.
Teenage girls can often be quick to open their legs and lie about their age.

Would they do it to meet a rock star?
Probably.

If its true what she says then I hope he goes to jail.
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Old 22-04-2017, 02:05 PM   #31
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It was just an example, like I said.
One that may prove to be true.

Nothings going to be changed and no one helped because we are debating this.

People generalise sometimes, its human nature.
But generalisations often have truth in them.
Teenage girls can often be quick to open their legs and lie about their age.

Would they do it to meet a rock star?
Probably.

If its true what she says then I hope he goes to jail.
The problem being here is that your generalisations are coming from a misogynistic view point. Maybe a better person than I will help you realise that someday and change will happen.
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Old 22-04-2017, 04:47 PM   #32
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The problem being here is that your generalisations are coming from a misogynistic view point. Maybe a better person than I will help you realise that someday and change will happen.
I wouldn't call it misogyny. It's more to do with being a realist. I don't think anyone has the intention of victim blaming- it's about looking at things from both sides, as opposed to just taking the victim's word as gospel. My main query was why, after already having drinks and spending time socially with the star, did she then choose to further that interaction by going to the bedroom. She could have got her autograph and left at that point. Obviously I don't condone rape, that goes without saying. But women do need to take some personal responsibility for their own actions also- if you go to the bedroom for some 'private time', it's hardly a surprise that the man got the wrong idea- superstar or not. When he unzipped her jumpsuit, that was her opportunity to say NO. At that point, it was clear where things were headed. But it was allowed to progress. Did she say NO?

Again, it's difficult because if she didn't say NO, then how was he supposed to know that it was non-consensual? She was clearly too young and far too immature to deal with the situation- but is that his fault if he was presuming she was older than she was?

In all fairness, when I was 14 I also put myself in some stupid situations. I appreciate that she was starstruck and naive, and it's an awful experience. I do find her claims of it having ruined her life ever since, to be maybe a bit embellished, but what do I know? I'm just trying to also see it from the man's point of view, where he may not have realised she was underage, and thought it was consensual.

It's not victim blaming, it's just trying to appreciate the fullness of the situation.

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Old 22-04-2017, 05:33 PM   #33
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Aurum do you believe men are nothing more than walking penis's with no self control or morality? I don't but I do believe that there are some predatory type males where sex is just about the power and self gratification. These men are the ones who take advantage of situations for their own pleasure. The majority of men will never have to ever try and justify their abuse of a child or vulnerable person because they see them for what they are and not something to be used. Instead of trying to get into the head of a young teenager who may have had a misguided view of the dangers of the adult world why not get into the head of the adult male in the situation. Women in low cut tops never hurt anyone btw.
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Old 22-04-2017, 05:53 PM   #34
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Women in low cut tops never hurt anyone btw.[/QUOTE]

What do you mean?
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Old 22-04-2017, 05:57 PM   #35
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Aurum do you believe men are nothing more than walking penis's with no self control or morality? I don't but I do believe that there are some predatory type males where sex is just about the power and self gratification. These men are the ones who take advantage of situations for their own pleasure. The majority of men will never have to ever try and justify their abuse of a child or vulnerable person because they see them for what they are and not something to be used. Instead of trying to get into the head of a young teenager who may have had a misguided view of the dangers of the adult world why not get into the head of the adult male in the situation. Women in low cut tops never hurt anyone btw.
No I edited my comment about low cut tops because I didn't want to trivialise things. I genuinely don't believe that all men are walking penises, no. But I appreciate that some men are, as do you. I'm just trying to look at it from another perspective, every situation is different obviously and I'm not making excuses for any man who takes advantage of a woman against her consent. Far from it.

My only point about low cut tops was simply to highlight that there's no point complaining that men are staring at your baps if you choose to pop them out there on display. It's confused logic. If you're proud of your puppies then by all means show 'em off- I'm not averse to a low cut top myself. But don't then start whinging about the attention you get- if you don't want that kind of attention, put them away. It's not really that difficult, is it?!

It's about women taking some personal responsibility also. It's not about maligning all men as sexual predators, but if you're smart you'll appreciate that some are. As I've said, ultimately it was her parents who reneged on their responsibilities- she was 14 and had no business attending a rock concert without adult supervision.

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Old 22-04-2017, 06:45 PM   #36
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I genuinely don't believe that all men are walking penises, no. But I appreciate that some men are, as do you.
Actually, every man is a walking penis and has all sorts of penis thoughts all day every day

Any man who tries to tell you otherwise is lying to appear ' gentle ' so he can ravish you later, I sometimes hate being this honest but basically 9/10 men you walked past today thought about a quickie even if it was a split second thought

There is a line though, between thought and actions and hopefully we like to live in a society where you don't cross that line every time you have that thought

Otherwise there would be a lot of raping going on , for the most part men can control it

As to the OP -- is it Tom Fucking JOnes ???????

Really? ???????????????????????
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Old 22-04-2017, 08:25 PM   #37
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thanks for the diagnosis Dave

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Old 22-04-2017, 08:40 PM   #38
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Actually, every man is a walking penis and has all sorts of penis thoughts all day every day

Any man who tries to tell you otherwise is lying to appear ' gentle ' so he can ravish you later, I sometimes hate being this honest but basically 9/10 men you walked past today thought about a quickie even if it was a split second thought

There is a line though, between thought and actions and hopefully we like to live in a society where you don't cross that line every time you have that thought

Otherwise there would be a lot of raping going on , for the most part men can control it

As to the OP -- is it Tom Fucking JOnes ???????

Really? ???????????????????????
Haha, well yep to be fair I reckon there is some truth to that. I've had lots of very good male friends over the years, and the more honest amongst them have pretty much said the same thing (usually whilst in a state of discombobulation)... That they probably wouldn't hang out and be 'friends' with you (as a female), if they didn't at least fancy you a bit.

It's just the way things are.
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Old 22-04-2017, 10:11 PM   #39
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Actually, every man is a walking penis and has all sorts of penis thoughts all day every day

Any man who tries to tell you otherwise is lying to appear ' gentle ' so he can ravish you later, I sometimes hate being this honest but basically 9/10 men you walked past today thought about a quickie even if it was a split second thought

There is a line though, between thought and actions and hopefully we like to live in a society where you don't cross that line every time you have that thought

Otherwise there would be a lot of raping going on , for the most part men can control it

As to the OP -- is it Tom Fucking JOnes ???????

Really? ???????????????????????
Yes sexual thoughts, women have them too...my mind can be a filthy cesspool of sexual gratification,but that's ok, that's normal and healthy but not once have I fantasied about a child or a vulnerable person. That is the problem here we are not discussing sex we are discussing the alleged rape of a young teen.
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Old 22-04-2017, 10:41 PM   #40
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yeh sorry wandered off topic

is it supposed to be about Tom Jones then ? someone mentioned him earlier

it seems that basically everyone from my childhood who was on TV has now been shown to be interested in sex with minors

everyone that is except people who are still protected from investigation - I'm sure there are many more who will never be named

it seems there was a dont ask dont tell policy in the so called entertainment industry

it does need to be exposed for what it is and if only to stop it being repeated

have you heard of a woman called Melanie Shaw ? she is still in prison I think , her crime is talking about the sexual abuse she suffered , they call her mentally ill
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