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Old 02-05-2010, 04:56 PM   #41
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I'll play...is describe color A in relation to color B
Not enough information.

The letter "A" is the exact same color as the letter "B".

However, the square of "A" is a dark gray and the square of "B" is a light gray.
Q: ..... How long is a piece of string?

The squares....sorry I wasn't clear...I was still being baffled by this illusion

The original image of the illusion.
The squares marked A and B are the
same shade of gray,yet they appear different.
The original image plus two stripes.
By joining the squares marked A and B
with two vertical stripes of the same
shade of gray, it becomes apparent
that both squares are the same.

I'll freely admit the 2 vertical lines didn't really help me so I had to read proof & more evidence from MIT

Which still wasn't enough on its own...
I had to take the image into Paint and play with it to prove to myself they were the same color:
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Old 02-05-2010, 04:59 PM   #42
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Both squares are the same colour (only cos i've seen it before though)
I always get my art package out to prove it though
Glad I'm not the only one Do the two lines help you see it better or not? They were pretty useless to me...it was either that or I was convinced the colors were somehow off in my computer
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Old 02-05-2010, 05:03 PM   #43
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Before you made the effort to confirm it for yourself, somebody could have told you A was B over and over again, but no matter how hard you stared at A trying to see it as B, nothing would change.



If you perceived colour A as safe, and colour B as dangerous, would you be prepared to make the effort to discover that A really was B, or be happy to leave well enough alone and keep them separate?

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Old 04-05-2010, 02:33 PM   #44
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Top-Down processing is one way to make sense of information. With top-down processing, the large picture is considered and used to make sense of the smaller components that make up the larger picture. An important component of using top-down processing as an educational tool is activating prior knowledge. The big picture we use to make sense of new information is made up of the things we already know and have experienced. When we activate prior knowledge before introducing a new concept, it makes it easier to make sense of new information and work it into the framework of what we already know.

...

Read the text in the triangle below:



Did you read “A bird in the bush?” If so, read again, pointing to each word. The word “the” appears twice in the triangle. Due to a common top-down processing error, we ignore the duplication and read a sentence that makes sense.
If there's any merit to what I'm saying about the woodchopping shot in the Gable Film, then the 'animal head' would be analogous to the extra 'the' in the image above.

There's another good example of top-down processing with the slideshow at the top of the page at the same link: http://testplease.com/?tag=top-down-processing (Remember to only look at one of the two slideshows before looking at the image below them).











How certain are you that you're only looking at a head of human hair? If you examine the details carefully, do they confirm it?

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Old 04-05-2010, 03:03 PM   #45
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How certain are you that you're only looking at a head of human hair? If you examine the details carefully, do they confirm it?


If you weren't already familiar with this:



when it was pointed out there was a duplicate "the" in there that you missed, you had to go back and confirm it for yourself by examining the image more closely.

The woodchopping shot in the Gable Film is the same, though on a much more subtle level than a few white words printed on a blue background.

The effort to examine and confirm it for yourself therefore requires more attention and scrutiny, though the anomaly is no less glaringly obvious when you recognise it.

As a tip to get started, consider that the front of the woodchopper's head just before and immediately after he splits the log of wood might be that extra 'the' that you never paid attention to before. Be aware of any voices that might chime in from your subconscious mind at that moment telling you 'this is preposterous' etc. to try to dissuade you from simply examining the footage on it's own merits.

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Old 05-05-2010, 12:47 AM   #46
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Before you made the effort to confirm it for yourself, somebody could have told you A was B over and over again, but no matter how hard you stared at A trying to see it as B, nothing would change.
Just like no one can tell you SOL that Wood Splitter is Mike,
you're never going see anything differently & nothing will change
...unlike me, who is willing to look at things differently.



I think we can all agree if Mike was shaft shifting in example B, Linda Godfrey would not have been standing by calmly
...and Dogman would not have been MosterQuest's final episode
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Old 05-05-2010, 02:42 AM   #47
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The shirt in pic "B" has NO checks or stripes!!!


It MUST be CGI and thus,...... FAKE!!!
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Old 05-05-2010, 11:20 AM   #48
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The shirt in pic "B" has NO checks or stripes!!!


It MUST be CGI and thus,...... FAKE!!!
Nice try, but I have you figured out...in order to shape shift you have to be wearing your magic plaid shirts
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Old 05-05-2010, 02:07 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by scaredycat View Post
Just like no one can tell you SOL that Wood Splitter is Mike,
you're never going see anything differently & nothing will change
...unlike me, who is willing to look at things differently.



I think we can all agree if Mike was shaft shifting in example B, Linda Godfrey would not have been standing by calmly
...and Dogman would not have been MosterQuest's final episode
I'll respond to your post in more detail at a later date SC, because there's plenty to say, but at the moment it's a classic example of top-down processing, which for now I'm trying to point out needs to be circumvented in order to see the footage properly.

What you've done with the side-by-side comparison is the same as the example found here:

http://testplease.com/?tag=top-down-processing

where
Quote:
Slide Show 1 activated prior knowledge about ducks, Slide Show 2 activated prior knowledge about rabbits. The activated prior knowledge was brought to the front of your mind, which influenced the way you interpreted the final image.
In your example, the image of Agrusa from MQ is being used to activate prior knowledge about humans, which influences the interpretation of the Gable Film image.

What's needed here is bottom-up processing...

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Old 05-05-2010, 02:28 PM   #50
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Top-Down and Bottom-Up Processing

When an interpretation emerges from the data, this is called data-driven or bottom-up processing. Perception must be largely data-driven because it must accurately reflect events in the outside world. You want the interpretation of a scene to be determined mostly by information from the senses, not by your expectations.

What is data-driven or bottom-up processing? What is schema-driven or top-down processing?


In many situations, however, your knowledge or expectations will influence perception. This is called schema-driven or top-down processing. A schema is a pattern formed earlier in your experience.

Larger scale or more abstract concepts are referred to as higher level, while concrete details (such as the input from the senses) are referred to as lower level. Top-down processing occurs any time a higher-level concept influences your interpretation of lower level sensory data.

What is set or expectancy?

Top-down processing is shown by the phenomena of set or expectancy. A classic example is the Rat Man of Bugelski and Alampay (1961).


The "Rat Man" Picture

Subjects saw this picture after viewing earlier slides that showed line drawings of (1) animals, or (2) faces. Depending on whether they saw animals or faces in previous slides, subjects reported seeing either (1) a rat or (2) a man wearing glasses. They had been "set" for one or the other interpretation by the preceding slides. This is a form of top-down processing, in which a schema influences interpretation of the data.

In what respect do cartoons rely upon top-down processing?


Comics and cartoons provide many examples of top-down processing. Simple cues are used to suggest complex feelings and emotions. Cartoonists have a set of conventions for conveying information about mental and physical states. Tiny popping bubbles, for example, show drunkenness. Movement is shown by lines and little puffs of dust trailing after shoes. Spoken language is shown inside a bubble made out of a continuous line. A silent thought is shown inside a broken line. A sudden idea may be shown as a lightbulb lighting up over a character's head. Beads of sweat flying off a character show anxiety or physical exertion. After one gains some experience reading comics, these cues are processed automatically; one is hardly aware of them.

In what sense do we go "beyond the information given"?

In general, top-down processing—information processing based on previous knowledge or schemata—allows us to make inferences: to "perceive" or "know" more than is contained in the data. Little cartoon droplets do not contain the information that a character is working hard. We add that information based upon our previous experience and knowledge of the conventions of cartooning.

Jerome Bruner titled a book about cognitive development Beyond the Information Given (1972) He was acknowledging the pivotal role of inference in cognition. We go "beyond the information given" constantly in our mental processes. We learn to add assumptions and supplemental information derived from past experience to the evidence of our senses, and that is how we make sense of our world.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:44 PM   #51
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Sensation and Perception

This is a good clip that covers and demonstrates a range of topics relating to sensation and perception.

It explains the difference between top-down and bottom-up processing between 0:52 to 2:40.

After you've watched that section, consider the possibility that shapeshifters could exploit top-down processing to evade detection by merely approximating human appearance to a superficial degreee and then relying on our own top-down processing tendencies to kick in and fill in the blanks that make us perceive them as normal.

Animal camouflage in other words...


















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Old 05-05-2010, 04:04 PM   #52
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Reversed for a different perspective:



Could this shot have been specifically set up as a demonstration or test of the effectiveness of these same camouflage principles on humans?

If so, it would seem to have proven itself pretty damn effective to anyone with a vested interested in finding that out.

You've probably noticed by now that Don Coyote has infested this thread with the odd, inane, strategically-placed comment simply designed to make his presence felt here and by implication remind everybody there's nothing to all this, right?



Well in the above scenario, that wouldn't be much different to this snake remaining dead still in order to maintain the illusion while a cautious but unaware mouse approached.

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Old 05-05-2010, 06:20 PM   #53
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If your attention is drawn to a flower in a field, it may be simply that the flower is more visually salient than the surrounding field. The information that caused you to attend to the flower came to you in a bottom-up fashion — your attention was not contingent upon knowledge of the flower; the outside stimulus was sufficient on its own.

Contrast this situation with one in which you are looking for a flower. You have a representation of what you are looking for. When you see the object you are looking for, it is salient. This is an example of the use of top-down information.
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Old 06-05-2010, 12:01 AM   #54
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You've probably noticed by now that Don Coyote has infested this thread with the odd, inane, strategically-placed comment simply designed to make his presence felt here and by implication remind everybody there's nothing to all this, right?


I need more popcorn.
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Old 06-05-2010, 01:35 AM   #55
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I need more popcorn.
You can have my share...something about being allergic to corn keeps me far away from it.
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Old 11-05-2010, 10:19 AM   #56
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Frames 1 - 9/ 98 (Unenhanced)

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Old 11-05-2010, 12:17 PM   #57
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Frames 1 - 9 / 98

L - Unenhanced
C - Basic Brightness/Contrast/Sharpness Enhancement
R - Basic Brightness/Contrast/Sharpness Enhancement (closeup)




It might take some time to recognise it, but note if you can that there's no loss in quality or distortion of the original image when enhanced in this way (hence the term enhancement).

All that's happening is that the existing areas of light and shade are being delineated more clearly through brightness, contrast and sharpness adjustments to make the topographic details and the boundaries of the head easier to see.

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Old 11-05-2010, 02:41 PM   #58
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Frames 1 - 9 / 98

Normal & Horizontally Reversed






Note any differences in the 'pareidolia' images you perceive between the normal and the reversed versions.

How many distinct 'faces' can you already count?

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Old 13-05-2010, 02:12 AM   #59
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Note any differences in the 'pareidolia' images you perceive between the normal and the reversed versions.

How many distinct 'faces' can you already count?

How many can you see in that clip? Hundreds? Thousands?

I see none.
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Old 13-05-2010, 02:21 AM   #60
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I was beginning to think SOL and I had been completely abandoned.

It's so nice to have a little company, every now and again.


Thanks for stopping by, hudepohl!!!
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