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Old 16-10-2010, 04:49 AM   #1
verndewd
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Default The eternal symbiosis

I and my sister were comparing theories on consciousness,my theory as you may know by reading some of my posts is that we have a higherself we are meant to grow into.
Her theory is we actually have a symbiotic relationship with an ascended being who is showing us how to create our higher being by existing within our consciousness as a model.

in either theory all things we experience as mystical and whatnot are manifest, obviously we have to make the effort to create the higher self But what I didnt identify is the higher self isnt OUR higher self literally but a brother or whatever in consciousness holding up an etheral body guide for us to compare with our creation on earth.

Thanks to the fact that I am an abstract thinker I can see the two ideas as different ways of viewing the same thing.

Last edited by verndewd; 16-10-2010 at 04:52 AM.
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Old 16-10-2010, 01:05 PM   #2
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Actually, she told me that we are the human body, and that we are entered
by an alien when we are born.. and that this alien, inspires us to do what is
right, so that when we die we don't enter into darkness.

But how can we go anywhere after death when we are physical bodies? If we
are physical bodies then death is the end for us, only the alien lives on and
our consciousness dies.

Verndewd, I am interested in your theories about where we come from, our
consciousness that is, when it is born and where it goes to after death, I do
not think you ever illuminated this, and if you have then I haven't read it.

What is your theory about who we really are, where we come from and
where we go after death? You don't believe in reincarnation, so what do
you believe the point of being a human is? The vast majorities of humans
live and die without ever having learned anything, or ever having gotten
the chance to learn anything, let alone the nature of spirituality and the
Universe, so what do you believe the point of being human is? What is
our relationship with the Universe, why do we exist, what is our purpose?

I've already found the answer to all those questions for myself, but I am
always interested in comparing notes about this very important concept,
I often learn from others when I feel in my heart they get it right, and I
do adjust my own beliefs then.

Last edited by zsymon; 16-10-2010 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 16-10-2010, 04:34 PM   #3
verndewd
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Originally Posted by zsymon View Post
Actually, she told me that we are the human body, and that we are entered
by an alien when we are born.. and that this alien, inspires us to do what is
right, so that when we die we don't enter into darkness.

But how can we go anywhere after death when we are physical bodies? If we
are physical bodies then death is the end for us, only the alien lives on and
our consciousness dies.

Verndewd, I am interested in your theories about where we come from, our
consciousness that is, when it is born and where it goes to after death, I do
not think you ever illuminated this, and if you have then I haven't read it.

What is your theory about who we really are, where we come from and
where we go after death? You don't believe in reincarnation, so what do
you believe the point of being a human is? The vast majorities of humans
live and die without ever having learned anything, or ever having gotten
the chance to learn anything, let alone the nature of spirituality and the
Universe, so what do you believe the point of being human is? What is
our relationship with the Universe, why do we exist, what is our purpose?

I've already found the answer to all those questions for myself, but I am
always interested in comparing notes about this very important concept,
I often learn from others when I feel in my heart they get it right, and I
do adjust my own beliefs then.
I have outlined alot of this in my threads on quantum consciousness. After talking with my sister we agreed that the alien symbiot terminology is relative , it being alien to us and our world but is simply an ethereal being working out its ascension by helping us create our ethereal form.

technocally not alien in the context of infinite consciousness but alien to us and our world possibly . her inspiration on the idea was really inspiring to the concepts I have worked on for years. I knew we were new and we created ourselves but theorized we created our being from the ascended plane down where as her vision is reverse of that which makes perfect sense.

according to her theory the symbiot cannot move to its next state unless its successful in helping us create our light being.


this is exactly what I intended by the speaking in tongues project, her ideas and mine seem very different until i put them in the anstract and saw the similarities and found they were nearly identical to my theories but different ways of viewing them, like the 5 core theories on strings were "merged' by M theory.

What we have in spiritual identification is potentially billions of ways of looking at the same thing.

My theory on what we are is light beyond measurable speed, we have the choice to become a personality within this via our co creation on this 4d world, And I think the requirements are very basic, that we recognize our inner light and create our light body by looking at eveything dark and creating the opposite within our lives.

energy is neither created nor destroyed, people set on learning will continue learning infinitely, those set on destroyintg will be recycled, wiped clean of their consciousness that energy would become sub particles that become poisons and the core consciousness would become someone else or a new iteration of that person?

I prefer paralell lives to past lives and paralell information bleed, past life could be a symbiot that has tried to help many other consciousness and retains the lesson from those lives. I have always believed that densities like earth are like gardens for planting new consciousness. And my sisters idea fits my quantum consciousness ideas to a T on that.

Where I state that consciousness is the effect of stacked function from the string level creating the ability for consciousness in the right assembled patterns, and the idea that its a self assembling organic technology that according to her is a design that enables the ability to manifest an eternal light body by sheer will of thought.
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Old 16-10-2010, 05:25 PM   #4
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Well, it is interesting, but I just can't match it with my own experiences.. the
theory you describe seems very weird and strange to me.. and it just can not
be reconsiled with any of my experiences. But it is interesting nonetheless, I
do not dismiss it.

So you believe that before we were born, we did not exist.. that in order to
continue existing when we die, the alien being that possesses us must be
successful in creating a soul for us.. that we become this soul and after we
die, we can live on, instead of dying and disappearing permanently?

So basically, if the alien that possesses us does not succeed, we will vanish
and disappear after death, all our memories lost, our consciousness dead and
gone for good?

Why is this alien an immortal soul, but we are not? What makes the Earth so
different from other solar systems that our consciousness dies if the alien can
not succeed in creating an etheric body for us?

Also, what made you believe this theory? I asked your sister why she believed
this, but she hasn't answered me, she only repeated her theory again. I do
wonder what made you and your sister reach this conclusion? In all my time
searching for information, I have never come across a theory like this one, I
am not saying it is wrong though, just that it is extremely weird, I don't claim
to know the truth. But I guess my beliefs may seem weird for you as well.

Last edited by zsymon; 16-10-2010 at 05:30 PM.
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Old 16-10-2010, 05:49 PM   #5
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Default I will try to answer that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zsymon View Post
Well, it is interesting, but I just can't match it with my own experiences.. the
theory you describe seems very weird and strange to me.. and it just can not
be reconsiled with any of my experiences. But it is interesting nonetheless, I
do not dismiss it.

So you believe that before we were born, we did not exist.. that in order to
continue existing when we die, the alien being that possesses us must be
successful in creating a soul for us.. that we become this soul and after we
die, we can live on, instead of dying and disappearing permanently?

So basically, if the alien that possesses us does not succeed, we will vanish
and disappear after death, all our memories lost, our consciousness dead and
gone for good?

Why is this alien an immortal soul, but we are not? What makes the Earth so
different from other solar systems that our consciousness dies if the alien can
not succeed in creating an etheric body for us?

Also, what made you believe this theory? I asked your sister why she believed
this, but she hasn't answered me, she only repeated her theory again. I do
wonder what made you and your sister reach this conclusion? In all my time
searching for information, I have never come across a theory like this one, I
am not saying it is wrong though, just that it is extremely weird, I don't claim
to know the truth. But I guess my beliefs may seem weird for you as well.
Have you ever read the bible?
Don't discount everything in it the lord says that if we live in righteousness we will find our eternal souls.
like I said when my step dad died I had a strange period of sudden theoretical epiphanies is how I describe it.
I think there for I am.
I believe this describes the one who one day realized he could think of becoming a living solid physical being and suddenly he was that being which spurred him to investigate further.
Which created more etherial life that was fresh and new and they also thought of being and therefor they became the etherial entities continually inspire new creations of new conscienceness.
Also there was a woman who wrote a book of her NDE describing the etherial spirit thinking of a flower and she became it and was a part of it feeling it in every true sense which was much greater than us picking the flower and experiencing the smell and touch and sight of it,
and when she went back into her body she remembered the whole experience.
So if I think therefor I am in the etherial spirit I am what I am thinking of wanting to feel.
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Old 16-10-2010, 05:50 PM   #6
verndewd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zsymon View Post
Well, it is interesting, but I just can't match it with my own experiences.. the
theory you describe seems very weird and strange to me.. and it just can not
be reconsiled with any of my experiences. But it is interesting nonetheless, I
do not dismiss it.

So you believe that before we were born, we did not exist.. that in order to
continue existing when we die, the alien being that possesses us must be
successful in creating a soul for us.. that we become this soul and after we
die, we can live on, instead of dying and disappearing permanently?

So basically, if the alien that possesses us does not succeed, we will vanish
and disappear after death, all our memories lost, our consciousness dead and
gone for good?

Why is this alien an immortal soul, but we are not? What makes the Earth so
different from other solar systems that our consciousness dies if the alien can
not succeed in creating an etheric body for us?

Also, what made you believe this theory? I asked your sister why she believed
this, but she hasn't answered me, she only repeated her theory again. I do
wonder what made you and your sister reach this conclusion? In all my time
searching for information, I have never come across a theory like this one, I
am not saying it is wrong though, just that it is extremely weird, I don't claim
to know the truth. But I guess my beliefs may seem weird for you as well.
first of all we need to dispense with the focus on alien, its a relative terminology, ascended being or guardian angel could be substituted.

No I dont believe we were prior light beings, thos here that were and came to set in motion way points and catalysts are in excruciating positions of responsibility, entrusted with creating global scenarios that cause people to seek the creation of higher being.
And our consciousness doesnt die it simply fails to manifest as light. The human body is just a computer with the capibility of manifesting an eternal life force our bodies are encapsulated gardens made for the sole purpose of expanding the ever expanding infinite consciousness by our ability to realize that our task is to create our own light being and we can only do that by knowing darkness and choosing to create light. So we have darkness catalysts everywhere to give us that choice.

No energy is ever wasted in creation, it all has use in the great scheme of things.And the alien or ascended helping angel thingy doesnt posess us it guides us it holds up a vision of what we are in our hearts and minds so that we can fulfill our creation of infinite self.
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Old 16-10-2010, 05:51 PM   #7
verndewd
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Originally Posted by theramblingpoet View Post
Have you ever read the bible?
Don't discount everything in it the lord says that if we live in righteousness we will find our eternal souls.
like I said when my step dad died I had a strange period of sudden theoretical epiphanies is how I describe it.
I think there for I am.
I believe this describes the one who one day realized he could think of becoming a living solid physical being and suddenly he was that being which spurred him to investigate further.
Which created more etherial life that was fresh and new and they also thought of being and therefor they became the etherial entities continually inspire new creations of new conscienceness.
Also there was a woman who wrote a book of her NDE describing the etherial spirit thinking of a flower and she became it and was a part of it feeling it in every true sense which was much greater than us picking the flower and experiencing the smell and touch and sight of it,
and when she went back into her body she remembered the whole experience.
So if I think therefor I am in the etherial spirit I am what I am thinking of wanting to feel.
hey sis, no work today?
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Old 16-10-2010, 06:57 PM   #8
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What I discussed with my sister today on this was the probability that each new consciousness is designed and that the base design isnt scrapped if the person fails to create a higher self .

There is a parable in the bible of clay vessals actually several instances of the idea

http://www.bing.com/search?q=parable...ox&FORM=IE8SRC

The clay vessal is made to create a divine being, and the clay vessal , your material self must realize your part of the creation by manifesting light while being here , and if not the clay vessal is destroyed and another one made for that specific design of consciousness.

Its all contingent on your willingness to create the manifestation here and in doing so materializes the light body of yourself.
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Old 16-10-2010, 08:05 PM   #9
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I guess it ties in with the theories in the bible and other religious scriptures.
They don't speak of reincarnation (at least the books where Jesus speaks of
reincarnation were deleted from the bible), and they assume that the soul
is born at birth, and that it will enter heaven or hell at death, to never, ever
be born physically again.

So basically, your theory states, just like the major religions do, that the soul
is brand new at birth, that it lives one life, and from that life it is judged on
whether it will go to heaven or hell (light realm or dark realm such as your
sister states), and that once it dies and enters that realm, it will stay there
forever.. or in your theory maybe evolve into higher levels of the spirit world.

I guess I can't think of anything to disprove this theory.. if you feel that the
memories people have of their past lives, come from the "ascended being"
that possesses us, then that end is tied off as well.

Basically your theory takes the basis of religious scriptures and works it out
into depth somewhat. It is interesting for sure, I have to admit that.

I do wonder though, if the entire physical Universe has as only purpose for
aliens to create other souls, then was it really worth creating such a gigantic
physical clockwork? Couldn't the Logos come up with easier ways to create
souls? If a new soul only lives one single life, and then never returns to the
physical Universe again, with its billions of galaxies, then was it really worth
it to create this physical Universe?

If we spend all our time in a spirit world, and never return to the physical
Universe, then I'm sure the Logos could have skipped creating the physical
Universe and just created us straightforwardly, and sent us into the spirit
world we would spend all eternity in anyway?

I don't know man, I can't imagine a reality without reincarnation. Every cell
in my body and soul tell me that we live multiple lives within the physical
Universe, and I am not the only one that feels this way, hundreds of millions
of people feel the same.. surely there must be something to it?

I'm not saying your theory is wrong, but to me it seems rather easy to
incorporate the possibility of reincarnation in your theory. What could possibly
stop you from, after you have died, deciding to be reborn again, or becoming
one of those "ascended" beings who incarnate into human bodies?

I mean, where do you think those "ascended beings" come from in the first
place? Don't you think, going with your theory, they started out just like you
have? Doesn't that mean that, still within your theory, reincarnation is true?
If these ascended beings reincarnate, returning to the physical to keep making
new souls, that once you are created as an immortal being, will be just like
them and keep reincarnating to make new souls?

So even if I go along with your theory, I just don't see it working at all without
reincarnation. I don't see it working without multiple physical reincarnations.

Or are you saying that these alien beings only come into a human body once,
and only create an etheric conscious soul one single time, and then they too
disappear into the spirit world forever? If that were true then the existence of
the physical Universe seems even more pointless, at least to me. Why create
such a gigantic physical dimension if every entity could only experience it one
single time? Most humans never learn anything at all during their life, so don't
you think it makes more sense that they keep reincarnating until they learned
what they have to learn?

Not that I believe we incarnate just to learn.. just trying to fit it into your
theory.

Last edited by zsymon; 16-10-2010 at 08:20 PM.
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Old 16-10-2010, 08:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zsymon View Post
I guess it ties in with the theories in the bible and other religious scriptures.
They don't speak of reincarnation (at least the books where Jesus speaks of
reincarnation were deleted from the bible), and they assume that the soul
is born at birth, and that it will enter heaven or hell at death, to never, ever
be born physically again.

So basically, your theory states, just like the major religions do, that the soul
is brand new at birth, that it lives one life, and from that life it is judged on
whether it will go to heaven or hell (light realm or dark realm such as your
sister states), and that once it dies and enters that realm, it will stay there
forever.. or in your theory maybe evolve into higher levels of the spirit world.

I guess I can't think of anything to disprove this theory.. if you feel that the
memories people have of their past lives, come from the "ascended being"
that possesses us, then that end is tied off as well.

Basically your theory takes the basis of religious scriptures and works it out
into depth somewhat. It is interesting for sure, I have to admit that.

I do wonder though, if the entire physical Universe has as only purpose for
aliens to create other souls, then was it really worth creating such a gigantic
physical clockwork? Couldn't the Logos come up with easier ways to create
souls? If a new soul only lives one single life, and then never returns to the
physical Universe again, with its billions of galaxies, then was it really worth
it to create this physical Universe?

If we spend all our time in a spirit world, and never return to the physical
Universe, then I'm sure the Logos could have skipped creating the physical
Universe and just created us straightforwardly, and sent us into the spirit
world we would spend all eternity in anyway?

I don't know man, I can't imagine a reality without reincarnation. Every cell
in my body and soul tell me that we live multiple lives within the physical
Universe, and I am not the only one that feels this way, hundreds of millions
of people feel the same.. surely there must be something to it?

I'm not saying your theory is wrong, but to me it seems rather easy to
incorporate the possibility of reincarnation in your theory. What could possibly
stop you from, after you have died, deciding to be reborn again, or becoming
one of those "ascended" beings who incarnate into human bodies?

I mean, where do you think those "ascended beings" come from in the first
place? Don't you think, going with your theory, they started out just like you
have? Doesn't that mean that, still within your theory, reincarnation is true?
If these ascended beings reincarnate, returning to the physical to keep making
new souls, that once you are created as an immortal being, will be just like
them and keep reincarnating to make new souls?

So even if I go along with your theory, I just don't see it working at all without
reincarnation. I don't see it working without multiple physical reincarnations.

Or are you saying that these alien beings only come into a human body once,
and only create an etheric conscious soul one single time, and then they too
disappear into the spirit world forever? If that were true then the existence of
the physical Universe seems even more pointless, at least to me. Why create
such a gigantic physical dimension if every entity could only experience it one
single time? Most humans never learn anything at all during their life, so don't
you think it makes more sense that they keep reincarnating until they learned
what they have to learn?

Not that I believe we incarnate just to learn.. just trying to fit it into your
theory.
it doesnt seem like you read what I wrote well enough.

You might want to itemize my points for clarification because how you just repeated them isnt what I said. Just go point by point and youll see how I am seeing this.
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Old 16-10-2010, 08:40 PM   #11
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it doesnt seem like you read what I wrote well enough.

You might want to itemize my points for clarification because how you just repeated them isnt what I said. Just go point by point and youll see how I am seeing this.
Regardless of that, the questions I ask at the end are still valid, do you want
to respond to them?
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Old 16-10-2010, 08:45 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by zsymon View Post
Actually, she told me that we are the human body, and that we are entered
by an alien when we are born.. and that this alien, inspires us to do what is
right, so that when we die we don't enter into darkness.

But how can we go anywhere after death when we are physical bodies? If we
are physical bodies then death is the end for us, only the alien lives on and
our consciousness dies.
That doesn't feel right to me at all. If we have to rely on another being that we can't see and only exists as a subtle feeling or voice in our head, etc., to "save" us, then we are ultimately doomed, in my view.
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Old 16-10-2010, 08:49 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by sh3lly View Post
That doesn't feel right to me at all. If we have to rely on another being that we can't see and only exists as a subtle feeling or voice in our head, etc., to "save" us, then we are ultimately doomed, in my view.
Well, I feel the same as you, but who knows what the truth is.

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Old 16-10-2010, 08:50 PM   #14
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Regardless of that, the questions I ask at the end are still valid, do you want
to respond to them?
they arent valid in a sense that you misread what I typed and asked based on the wrong idea.
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Old 16-10-2010, 08:55 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by sh3lly View Post
That doesn't feel right to me at all. If we have to rely on another being that we can't see and only exists as a subtle feeling or voice in our head, etc., to "save" us, then we are ultimately doomed, in my view.
As I said , you can substitute guardian angel or higher self into the same thing but the fact remins we have a personal tie that helps us see what we need to manifest in consciousness. Where my sister says alien symbiot another will say higher self christ self or guardian angel. The point is we do get guidance from within.

the reason why it makes sense is that being in this view becomes a community effort where the preservation or materialization of every one becomes a unique sacred and special experience that we are aided with.

In my view its essential to have such help to create the manifestation that will become the light body of our designed consciousness.

the helping being manifests the law of community and so many other laws of interdependance by aiding us in manifesting our light being, its not an extra worldly being its an extra sensory being , one in the light so to speak and yes possibly of other worldly origin possibly even another species of light being.

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Old 16-10-2010, 08:56 PM   #16
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they arent valid in a sense that you misread what I typed and asked based on the wrong idea.
I disagree, this is what I asked, and it is based on your own words:

* Where do these ascended beings come from in the first place?
* Don't you think that the souls they manifest will become like them?
* Do these ascended beings only come into a human body once?
* Do these ascended beings incarnate once and then vanish into
the spirit world for all eternity?
* Why would God create a huge physical dimension if every soul
could only experience it one single time?
* Most humans never learn anything, doesn't it make more sense for
us or the ascended beings to keep reincarnating until we learn what
we or them have to learn?

Last edited by zsymon; 16-10-2010 at 09:05 PM.
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Old 16-10-2010, 09:03 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by zsymon View Post
I disagree, this is what I asked, and it is based on your own words:

* Where do these ascended beings come from in the first place?
* Don't you think that the souls they manifest will become like them?
* Do these ascended beings only come into a human body once?
* Do these ascended beings incarnate once and then vanish into
the spirit world for all eternity?
* Why would God create a huge physical dimension if every soul
could only experience it one single time?
* Most humans never learn anything, doesn't it make more sense for
us or the ascended beings to keep reincarnating until we learn what
we or them have to?
ascended beings are co created as we are from the same 4d type experience

no the souls they help are unique creations by the design of the collective and the person working to fulfill the design.

these beings self sacrifice to help another become as light until they succeed once.

The human body is just a clay vessal which will experience the designed consciousness once and if it fails to manifest its light body will be replaced by a new clay vessal for the same designed consciousness.

the helper or symbiot doesnt technically incarnate, its mission is to take the designed consciousness from seed to fruition of light being, upon completion will likely attend to a higher learning order and task.
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Old 16-10-2010, 09:03 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by verndewd View Post
they arent valid in a sense that you misread what I typed and asked based on the wrong idea.
Clarification might help (for me as well) because I thought his response was well-thought out and asked some interesting questions.

So, humans are incapable of finding their way on their own? They must have these "angels," "guardians," "masters" to give them assistance?

Why would we be created this way? If working as a team or as part of a group/symbiotic relationship was essential, why not create us to operate as a "group mind" or part of a collective? Or at least have a knowing of this from birth. Obviously, we have symbiotic relationships with bacteria and other microscopic physical beings on physical our bodies, etc. I mean, why would we be created with a spiritual aspect like this, one that had extremely high implications for our souls, and not be born with the knowledge? Most people would have no clue about this to the day they died, and they are supposed to somehow figure it out within one lifetime?

Or is this supposed to happen unbeknownst to the human, and if they just happen to live a good, positive life (being subtly influenced), then the being has done its job, and the human gets to "graduate" (for lack of a better word at the moment)?

It's a very strange idea to me. Somewhat disturbing. I have always assumed we had more control over our souls and didn't need (unless we asked) assistance for spiritual evolution.
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Old 16-10-2010, 09:14 PM   #19
sh3lly
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Originally Posted by verndewd View Post
As I said , you can substitute guardian angel or higher self into the same thing but the fact remins we have a personal tie that helps us see what we need to manifest in consciousness. Where my sister says alien symbiot another will say higher self christ self or guardian angel. The point is we do get guidance from within.
My understanding of the higher self is that it IS you. It is the you in a higher plane/realm that has extended pieces of itself into physical bodies to experience being physical and to learn, etc. Our souls are bits of our higher selves. When we die, we ultimately go back to the overall higher self or main oversoul or whatever it is. (But honestly, now I am not even sure I think that is correct, for what it's worth.)

I am not sure where I stand on reincarnation or simultaneous lives or parallel lives. It would seem you could learn much more by living more than once, and the idea we only live once just doesn't feel right to me. And I certainly don't buy the line that you have to forget to learn. The veil of forgetting seems like a load of BS to me.

Quote:
the reason why it makes sense is that being in this view becomes a community effort where the preservation or materialization of every one becomes a unique sacred and special experience that we are aided with.
How is it a community effort when the being helping us is doing it alone and seems to bear the full brunt of responsibility and we are only living one life that we have to do it right the first time on or it would appear we are screwed?

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In my view its essential to have such help to create the manifestation that will become the light body of our designed consciousness.

the helping being manifests the law of community and so many other laws of interdependance by aiding us in manifesting our light being, its not an extra worldly being its an extra sensory being , one in the light so to speak and yes possibly of other worldly origin possibly even another species of light being.
This is interesting. I just had a flash of thought that (at least in the US), we are taught we must be fully INDEPENDENT and maybe this is an unnatural concept that would hinder us (at least in the type of situation you are talking about). (Obviously, independence is a good thing, but it is also important to learn how to trust others and share your life with them, etc.)

I don't know, in a way this reminds me of a being trying to justify it leeching off you. If it could convince you that it somehow was essential to your spiritual success that it be allowed to continue piggybacking on your emotions and experiences. Like zsymon said, it is definitely an interesting theory.
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Old 16-10-2010, 09:19 PM   #20
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Sh3lly, don't be disturbed by what Verndewd writes, or by what anyone
writes for that matter, they are all just theories, nothing more, nothing
less.
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