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Old 11-03-2008, 10:16 PM   #1
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Default Life Comes From Life

Science: Truth and Fiction

Once upon a time (as in a fairy tale), most of us believed that the food we ate was basically wholesome, nutritious and free from dangerous chemicals, that advertising may have been believable, and that product labels truly described the qualities and contents of what we fed ourselves and our families. Once upon a time, most of the world believed in the integrity of our heads of state, high-ranking political officials and local leaders. Once upon a time, we thought our children were getting a solid education in the public school system. Once upon a time, many of us believed atomic energy had "peacetime uses" that were perfectly safe and completely congruous with a happy and healthy society.

Yet in recent times our illusions have been shattered. Repeated exposes of widespread consumer fraud and grand political collusion and bribery have all but destroyed our former innocence. We now know that through mass marketing and the media, a veil of fantasy and deception can be created with such unprecedented expertise that it can become impossible for us to distinguish between substance and simulation, reality and illusion.

Today many scientists are propagating the doctrine that life originates from matter. However, they cannot provide proof, either experimentally or theoretically. In fact, they hold their stance essentially on faith, in the face of all sorts of scientific objections. In 'Lifes Comes From Life' Srila Prabhupada points out that this groundless dogma has done great damage to moral and spiritual standards worldwide and has thus caused incalculable suffering.

Life Comes From Life (online book):
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Old 14-03-2008, 05:38 AM   #2
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Srila Prabhupada: Scientists have helped to minimize the duration of life! Formerly men lived one hundred years; now they seldom live more than sixty or seventy years. And the scientists have discovered atomic energy; now they can kill millions of men. So they have helped only in dying. They have not helped in living, and still they dare to declare that they will create.
HAHA , how cute
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Old 26-03-2008, 10:46 PM   #3
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Lightbulb Life comes from Life (Part 1)

Life on Other Planets

Srila Prabhupada. Even on the sun and moon there are living entities. What is the opinion of the scientists?

Dr. Singh. They say there is no life there.

Srila Prabhupada. That is nonsense. There is life there.

Dr. Singh. They say that there is no life on the moon because they did not find any there.

Srila Prabhupada. Why do they believe that? The moon planet is covered with dust, but within that dust the living entities can live. Every atmosphere is suitable for life--any atmosphere. Therefore the Vedas describe the living entities as sarva-gatah, which means "existing in all circumstances." The living entity is not material. Although encaged in a material body, he is not material. But when we speak of different atmospheres, we refer to different material conditions.

Karandhara. They say that the moon's atmosphere is unsuitable for life, but all they can legitimately say is that it is unsuitable for life as they know it.

Srila Prabhupada. The Vedas say that the living entity has no connection with material things. He cannot be burned, cut, dried up or moistened. This is discussed in Bhagavad-gita.

Dr. Singh. Scientists extend their knowledge about life on this planet, thinking that it must apply to life on other planets also.

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. They are thinking foremost of their own selves. They are thinking limitedly, in terms of their own circumstances. This is what we call "Dr. Frog's philosophy. [Laughter.]
Once there was a frog in a well, and when a friend informed him of the existence of the Atlantic Ocean, he asked the friend, "Oh, what is this Atlantic Ocean?"
"It is a vast body of water," his friend replied.
"How vast? Is it twice the size of this well?"
"Oh, no--much, much larger," his friend replied.
"How much larger? Ten times the size?" In this way, the frog went on calculating. But what is the possibility or ever understanding the vastness of the great ocean in this way? Our faculties, our experience, and our powers of speculation are always limited. The speculations of the scientists only give rise to such frog philosophy.

Karandhara. The basis of what they call "scientific integrity" is that they talk only about what they can directly experience.

Srila Prabhupada. You may talk about your experience, and I may talk about my experience. But why should I accept your experience? You may be a fool, so why should I also become a fool? You may be a frog, but suppose I am a whale. Why should I take your well as all in all? You have your method of acquiring scientific knowledge, and I have mine.

Dr. Singh. Because the scientists haven't detected any water on the surface of the moon, they've concluded that no life could survive there.

Srila Prabhupada. They haven't seen the whole surface of the moon. Suppose someone were to come here from another planet, drop into the Arabian Desert and then return home. Could he come to a complete conclusion about the nature of the whole earth? His knowledge would not be complete.
Karandhara. They have a device that senses water. They say they've had it orbit the moon, and they've concluded that the moon has no water and therefore no life.

Srila Prabhupada. Even if, as on the sun, there is apparently no water, still there are living entities there. How does a cactus grow in the desert, apparently without water?

Karandhara. It gets water from the atmosphere.

Srila Prabhupada. Yes, because the atmosphere contains all the elements needed to sustain life: earth, water, fire, air and ether. In anything material, all these elements are present. For example, in my body there is water, although you cannot see it. Similarly, you don't see fire in my body, yet my body is warm. Where does this warmth come from? You don't see any fire. Do you see any fire burning in my body? Then where does the warmth come from? What is the answer?

The Universe in the Atom

Srila Prabhupada. All matter is a combination of five gross elements (earth, water, fire, air and ether) and three subtle elements (mind, intelligence and false ego).

Karandhara. According to the Vedic science, material energy begins with the false ego and then develops into the intelligence, then the mind and then the gross elements--ether, air, fire and so on. So the same basic ingredients are present in all matter. Is this right?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. The creation of the material universe is like the growth of a great banyan tree[3] from a tiny seed. No one can see the tree within the seed, but all the necessary ingredients for the tree are there, including the required intelligence. Actually, everyone's body is simply a sample universe. Your body and my body are different universes, small universes. Therefore, all eight material elements are present within our bodies, just as they are within the whole universe. Similarly, an insect's body is another universe.

Karandhara. How about the atom?

Srila Prabhupada. The same formula applies: all these constituents are within the atom. Anor aniyan mahato mahiyan (Katha Upanisad 1.2.20). This means that whether something is extremely large or infinitesimal, it is still made of the same basic elements. This is true everywhere in the material world. Just as a woman's small watch has all the requisite machinery for its smooth functioning, so an ant has all the necessary brain substance to manage its affairs nicely. How is this possible? To answer this properly, you must minutely examine the brain tissues in the ant. But this you cannot do. Moreover, there are innumerable insects smaller than the ant. So there must be a mechanical arrangement for all this detailed activity, but scientists cannot discover it.

Relativity and Knowledge

Srila Prabhupada. All living entities possess the required intelligence to execute four principles: eating, sleeping, sexual intercourse and defense. These four principles exist even in the atom. The only difference in the human being is that he has the extra intelligence with which to understand God. This is the difference. Ahara-nidra-bhaya-maithunam ca samanam etat pasubhir naranam. Eating, sleeping, sex life and defense are to be found everywhere. You have seen trees growing. Wherever there is a knot, the bark does not go this way; it goes that way. [Srila Prabhupada gestures to show that a tree's bark grows not over a knot, but around it.] The tree has intelligence: "If I go this way, I will be blocked, so I will go that way." But where are its eyes? How can it see? It has intelligence. That intelligence may not be as good as yours, but it is intelligence. Similarly, a child also has intelligence, though not as developed as his father's. In due course of time, when the child gets a body like that of his father, the child's intelligence will be fully developed and exhibited.

Dr. Singh. Then intelligence is relative.

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. Everything is relative. You have your body, your duration of life, and your intelligence, and the ant has his. Both we and the ant live for one hundred years, but the length of our hundred-year life-span is relative to our bodies. Even Brahma, the longest-living entity in this universe, lives for one hundred years. To us the ant's life-span may seem only a few days. In the same way, on other planets with atmospheres different from the earth's, there are life-forms suited to those conditions. But the scientists try to view everything according to the relative conditions of planet earth. This is nonsense. Why are they doing that? If the whole cosmic manifestation follows the law of relativity, how can the scientist say that the conditions of this planet must apply to life on other planets? The Vedas instruct us that knowledge must always be considered in terms of desa-kala-patra. Desa means "circumstances," kala means "time," and patra means "the object." We must understand everything by taking these three elements into consideration. For example, a fish is living very comfortably in the water, and we are shivering on the shore of the sea. This is because my desa-kala-patra and the fish's desa-kala-patra are different. But if we conclude that the sea gulls will also shiver in the water, that is nonsense; their desa-kala-patra is again different. There are 8,400,000 different species of life in the material cosmic manifestation, and each species must adjust to circumstances differently. Even on this planet, you cannot go live comfortably in Alaska, although it is America. Similarly, the living entities enjoying life in Alaska do not come here.

Karandhara. Relativity, then, is based upon our individual situation.

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. Therefore it is said that what is food for one is poison for another.

Brahmananda Swami. Because scientists cannot survive on the moon, they think no one else can.

The 8.6-Billion-Year Day

Dr. Singh. The problem with the world is that practically everyone is thinking only in terms of his own circumstances--and that is nonsense.

Student. Someone who has never gone out of his village thinks that his village is the whole world.

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. The frog is always thinking in terms relative to his well. He has no power to think otherwise. The ocean is great, but he is thinking of the ocean's greatness in terms relative to his own greatness. Similarly, God is great, but we are thinking of God in terms of relative greatness, greatness relative to our own. There are certain insects that are born at night, and they grow, bear offspring and die--all before daybreak. They never see the morning. So if they conclude that there is no morning, that is nonsense. In the same way, as soon as we hear from the sastras [revealed scriptures] that Brahma's duration of life is equivalent to millions of our years, we do not believe it. We say, "How can it be?" But Bhagavad-gita (8.17) says, sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmano viduh: "Four billion three hundred million earth years equal Brahma's twelve hours." Even a leading Indian politician who was known as a great scholar of the Gita could not accept this information. He said it is mental speculation. Such a rascal! Yet he is passing as an important scholar. This is the problem. Rascals and fools are passing as scholars, scientists and philosophers, and therefore the whole world is being misguided.
We are not these temporary material bodies.
We are eternal spirit souls, part and parcel of the Supreme Spirit Soul (Krishna)
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare. / Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare

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Old 30-03-2008, 11:15 AM   #4
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Life arises from Death and Death arises from Life.

Ofcourse when your surpass this truth you know there is no arising nor passing of anything.
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Old 01-04-2008, 12:06 AM   #5
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Post Life comes from Life (part 2)

Darwinism Extinct

Srila Prabhupada. This material world is a composition of three qualities--sattva, rajas and tamas (goodness, passion and ignorance)--which are working everywhere. These three qualities are present in various proportions in all species of life. For example, some trees produce nice fruit, while others are simply meant for fuel. This is due to the association of particular qualities of nature. Among animals also, these three qualities are present. The cow is in the quality of goodness, the lion in passion, and the monkey in ignorance. According to Darwin, Darwin's father is a monkey. [Laughter.] He has theorized foolishly.

Dr. Singh. Darwin has said that some species become extinct in the struggle for survival. Those which are capable of surviving will survive, but those which are not will become extinct. So he says survival and extinction go side by side.

Srila Prabhupada. Nothing is extinct. The monkey is not extinct. Darwin's immediate forefather, the monkey, is still existing.

Karandhara. Darwin said there must be a natural selection. But selection means choice. So who is choosing?

Srila Prabhupada. That must be a person. Who is allowing someone to survive and someone to be killed? There must be some authority with discretion to give such an order. That is our first proposition. Who that authority is, is explained in Bhagavad-gita. Krsna says, mayadhyaksena prakrtih: "Nature is working under My supervision." (Bg. 9.10)

Dr. Singh. Darwin also says that the different species were not created simultaneously, but evolved gradually.

Srila Prabhupada. Then what is his explanation for how the process of evolution began?

Karandhara. Modern proponents of Darwinism say that the first living organism was created chemically.

Srila Prabhupada. And I say to them, "If life originated from chemicals, and if your science is so advanced, then why can't you create life biochemically in your laboratories?"

In the Future

Karandhara. They say they will create life in the future.

Srila Prabhupada. What future? When this crucial point is raised, they reply, "We shall do it in the future." Why in the future? That is nonsense. "Trust no future, however pleasant." If they are so advanced, they must demonstrate now how life can be created from chemicals. Otherwise what is the meaning of their advancement? They are talking nonsense.

Karandhara. They say that they are right on the verge of creating life.

Srila Prabhupada. That's only a different way of saying the same thing: "In the future." The scientists must admit that they still do not know the origin of life. Their claim that they will soon prove a chemical origin of life is something like paying someone with a postdated check. Suppose I give you a postdated check for ten thousand dollars but I actually have no money. What is the value of that check? Scientists are claiming that their science is wonderful, but when a practical example is wanted, they say they will provide it in the future. Suppose I say that I possess millions of dollars, and when you ask me for some money I say, "Yes, I will now give you a big postdated check. Is that all right?" If you are intelligent, you will reply, "At present give me at least five dollars in cash so I can see something tangible." Similarly, the scientists cannot produce even a single blade of grass in their laboratories, yet they are claiming that life is produced from chemicals. What is this nonsense? Is no one questioning this?

Karandhara. They say that life is produced by chemical laws.

Srila Prabhupada. As soon as there is a law, we must take into consideration that someone made the law. Despite all their so-called advancement, the scientists in their laboratories cannot produce even a blade of grass. What kind of scientists are they?

Dr. Singh. They say that in the ultimate analysis, everything came from matter. Living matter came from nonliving matter.

Srila Prabhupada. Then where is this living matter coming from now? Do the scientists say that life came from matter in the past but does not at the present? Where is the ant coming from now--from the dirt?

The Missing Link

Dr. Singh. in fact, there are several theories explaining how life originated from matter, how living matter came from the nonliving.

Srila Prabhupada. [casting Dr. Singh in the role of a materialistic scientist]. All right, scientist, why is life not coming from matter now? You rascal. Why isn't life coming from matter now? Actually such scientists are rascals. They childishly say that life came from matter, although they are not at all able to prove it. Our Krsna consciousness movement should expose all these rascals. They are only bluffing. Why don't they create life immediately? In the past, they say, life arose from matter; and they say that this will happen again in the future. They even say that they will create life from matter. What kind of theory is this? They have already commented that life began from matter. This refers to the past--"began." Then why do they now speak of the future? Is it not contradictory? They are expecting the past to occur in the future. This is childish nonsense.

Karandhara. They say that life arose from matter in the past and that they will create life this way in the future.

Srila Prabhupada. What is this nonsense? If they cannot prove that life arises from matter in the present, how do they know life arose this way in the past?

Dr. Singh. They are assuming...

Srila Prabhupada. Everyone can assume, but this is not science. Everyone can assume something. You can assume something, I can assume something. But there must be proof. We can prove that life arises from life. For example, a father begets a child. The father is living, and the child is living. But where is their proof that a father can be a dead stone? Where is their proof? We can easily prove that life begins from life. And the original life is Krsna. That also can be proven. But what evidence exists that a child is born of stone? They cannot actually prove that life comes from matter. They are leaving that aside for the future. [Laughter.]

Karandhara. The scientists say that they can now formulate acids, amino acids, that are almost like one-celled living organisms. They say that because these acids so closely resemble living beings, there must be just one missing link needed before they can create life.

Srila Prabhupada. Nonsense! Missing link. I'll challenge them to their face! [Laughter.] They are missing this challenge. The missing link is this challenge to their face.

Nobel Prize for an Ass

Dr. Singh. Some scientists hope that in the future they will be able to make babies in test tubes.

Srila Prabhupada. Test tubes?

Dr. Singh. Yes, they intend to combine male and female elements in biological laboratories.

Srila Prabhupada. If they begin with living entities, what is the purpose of the test tube? It is only a place for combination, but so is the womb. Where is the credit for the scientists if this is already being done in nature's test tube?

Karandhara. It is already being done by nature, but when some scientist does it, people will give him the Nobel Prize.

Srila Prabhupada. Yes, that is stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam: sva-vid-varahostra-kharaih samstutah purusah pasuh.[4] This verse indicates that those who praise men who are like animals are no better than dogs, hogs, camels and asses. Sva means "dog," vid-varaha means "stool-eating hog," ustra means "camel," and khara means "ass." If the Nobel Prize is given to a scientist who is a rascal, the men on the committee who give him that prize are no better than dogs, hogs, camels and asses. We don't accept them as human beings. One animal is praised by another animal. Where is the credit in that? If the men on the committee are no better than animals, anyone who receives the Nobel Prize in science is fool number one, because animals are praising him, not human beings.

Dr. Singh. For some scientists, the Nobel Prize is the ultimate.

Srila Prabhupada. They are rascals. They are speaking nonsense, and because they are juggling words, others are being misled.

Brahmananda Swami. Nobel is the person who invented dynamite.

Srila Prabhupada. He has created great misfortune, and he has left his money for creating further misfortune. [Laughter.]

Brahmananda Swami. The Gita says that demoniac people perform acts meant to destroy the world.

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. Ugra-karmanah ksayaya jagato 'hitah (Bg. 16.9). They perform acts meant for inauspiciousness and the destruction of the world.

The Difference Between the Living and the Nonliving

[Srila Prabhupada points at a dead tree with his cane.]
Srila Prabhupada. Formerly leaves and twigs were growing from this tree. Now they are not. How would the scientists explain this?

Karandhara. They would say the tree's chemical composition has changed.

Srila Prabhupada. To prove that theory, they must be able to inject the proper chemicals to make branches and leaves grow again. The scientific method includes observation, hypothesis and then demonstration. Then it is perfect. But the scientists cannot actually demonstrate in their laboratories that life comes from matter. They simply observe and then speak nonsense. They are like children. In our childhood, we observed a gramophone box and thought that within the box was a man singing, an electric man. We thought there must have been an electric man or some kind of ghost in it. [Laughter.]

Dr. Singh. One of the popular questions that arises when we start studying biology is "What is the difference between a living organism and that which is not living?" The textbooks say that the chief characteristics that distinguish the two are that a living being can move and reproduce, whereas dead matter can do neither. But the books never talk about the nature of the soul or about the consciousness of the living entity.

Srila Prabhupada. But consciousness is the primary indication that life is present. Only because of consciousness can a living being move and reproduce. Because a person is conscious, he thinks of marrying, and begetting children. And the original consciousness is described in the Vedas: tad aiksata bahu syam (Chandogya Upanisad 6.2.3). This means that God, the original conscious being, said, "I shall become many." Without consciousness, there is no possibility of by-products.

The Individual Living Force

Srila Prabhupada. The gardeners supply water to the green trees, so why don't they supply water to this dead tree and make it green?

Dr. Singh. From experience they know that it will not grow.

Srila Prabhupada. Then what is the element that is lacking? Scientists say that chemicals are the cause of life, but all the chemicals that were present when the tree was alive are still there. And these chemicals are still supporting the lives of many living entities such as microbes and insects. So they cannot say that life energy is lacking in the body of the tree. The life energy is there.

Dr. Singh. But what about the life energy of the tree itself?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes, that is the difference. The living force is individual, and the particular individual living entity that was the tree has left. This must be the case, since all the chemicals necessary to support life are still there, yet the tree is dead. Here is another example. Suppose I am living in an apartment, and then I leave it. I am gone, but many other living entities remain there--ants, spiders and so forth. So it is not true that simply because I have left the apartment, it can no longer accommodate life. Other living entities are still living there. It is simply that I--an individual living being--have left. The chemicals in the tree are like the apartment: they are simply the environment for the individual force--the soul--to act through. And the soul is an individual. I am an individual, and therefore I may leave the apartment. Similarly, the microbes are also individuals; they have individual consciousness. If they are moving in one direction but are somehow blocked, they think, "Let me go the other way." They have personality.

Karandhara. But in a dead body there is no personality.

Srila Prabhupada. This indicates that the individual soul has left that body. The soul has left, and therefore the tree does not grow.

Dr. Singh. Within the living body, Srila Prabhupada, there are innumerable small living entities, but the individual self who owns the body is also living there. Is that correct?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. In my body there are millions of living entities. In my intestines there are many worms. If they become strong, then whatever I eat, they eat, and I derive no benefit from the food. Therefore those who are full of hookworms eat very much but do not grow. They become lean and thin, and they are very hungry, because these small living entities are eating their food. So there are thousands and millions of living entities in my body--they are individuals, and I am an individual--but I am the proprietor of the body, just as I may be the proprietor of a garden in which many millions of living entities reside.

Student. So if I eat krsna-prasada [food offered to Lord Krsna], are the living entities in my body also eating prasada?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. You are very benevolent. [Laughs.] You take krsna-prasada for others.

Karandhara. Welfare work.

Srila Prabhupada. Yes, but there are so many things within you for them to eat that you do not need to make a separate endeavor to feed them.

Minimum Words, Maximum Solution

Srila Prabhupada. The individual soul is never lost. He does not die, nor is he born. He simply changes from one body to another, just as one changes garments. This is perfect science.

Dr. Singh. But why don't scientists accept this?

Srila Prabhupada. They are not nice men. They are rascals. They are not even gentlemen. Under appropriate circumstances, gentlemen will have some shyness or some shame. But these men are shameless. They cannot properly answer our challenges, yet they shamelessly claim that they are scientists and that they will create life. They are not even gentlemen. At least I regard them like that. A gentleman will be ashamed to speak nonsense.

Dr. Singh. They do not think before they speak.

Srila Prabhupada. That means that they are not human beings. A human being thinks twice before saying anything. Krsna makes the presence of life within the body so easy to understand. He says:

dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati

["As the embodied soul continually passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change." (Bg. 2.13)] In these two lines, Krsna solves the whole biological problem. That is knowledge. Minimum words, maximum solution. Volumes of books expounding nonsense have no meaning. Materialistic scientists are like croaking frogs: ka-ka-ka, ka-ka-ka. [Srila Prabhupada imitates the sound of a croaking frog, and the others laugh.] The frogs are thinking, "Oh, we are talking very nicely," but the result is that the snake finds them and says, "Oh, here is a nice frog!" [Srila Prabhupada imitates the sound of a snake eating a frog.] Bup! Finished. When death comes, everything is finished. The materialistic scientists are croaking--ka-ka-ka--but when death comes, their scientific industry is finished, and they become dogs, cats or something like that
We are not these temporary material bodies.
We are eternal spirit souls, part and parcel of the Supreme Spirit Soul (Krishna)
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare. / Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare

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Old 05-04-2008, 03:04 PM   #6
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Lightbulb Life Comes From Life (part 3)

Scientists as Thieves

Srila Prabhupada. [holding a rose in his hand]. Can any scientist create a flower like this in the laboratory?

Dr. Singh. That is not possible.

Srila Prabhupada. No, it is not. Just see how wonderfully Krsna's energy is working! No scientist can create a flower like this in his laboratory. They cannot create even a few grains of sand, yet they claim to possess the most advanced intellects in the universe. This is foolish.

Dr. Singh. They take matter from Krsna, manipulate it, and then claim that they have created something wonderful.

Srila Prabhupada. At least if they would admit that they have taken the matter from Krsna, that would be good. We understand that everything comes from Krsna.

Dr. Singh. But they will not admit that they are taking anything from Krsna. Instead they say that they are the creators.

Srila Prabhupada. How have they created anything? They take the sand and mix it with some chemicals and make glass. They have not created the sand or the chemicals; they have taken them from the earth. How have they created anything?

Dr. Singh. They say, "We have taken the materials from nature."

Srila Prabhupada. "From nature" means from a person. They have taken from nature, but they are thieves because everything in nature belongs to Krsna. Isavasyam idam sarvam: "Everything is God's creation." (Isopanisad 1) In Bhagavad-gita Krsna states that if one does not perform yajna [sacrifice], he is a thief. Yajna means acknowledging that things have been taken from Krsna. We should think, "Krsna, You have given us many, many things for our maintenance." This much acknowledgment Krsna wants; that's all. Otherwise, what can He expect from you? What are you in His presence? We should acknowledge Krsna's kindness. Therefore, before we eat we offer the food to Krsna and say, "Krsna, You have given us this nice food, so first You taste it." Then we eat it. Krsna is not hungry, yet He can eat the whole world and then again produce it exactly as it was. Purnasya purnam adaya purnam evavasisyate (Isopanisad Invocation). Krsna is so perfect that if you take from Krsna all of Krsna's energy, all the original energy is still with Him. That is perfect conservation of energy.

The Origin of Nature

Dr. Singh. There is a scientific journal called Nature. It contains articles concerning natural products like plants, flowers and minerals, but it does not mention God.

Srila Prabhupada. We may rightly observe that plants are being produced by nature. But the next question we must ask is, "Who has produced nature?" To ask this is real intelligence.

Dr. Singh. They don't generally think about this.

Srila Prabhupada. Then they are foolish. Where does nature come from? As soon as we speak of nature, the next question should be, "Whose nature?" Is it not so? For instance, I speak of my nature, and you speak of your nature. Therefore, as soon as we speak of nature, the next inquiry should be, "Whose nature?" Nature means energy. And as soon as we speak of energy, we must inquire into the source of that energy. For example, if you speak of electric energy, you must accept its source, the powerhouse. How can you deny it? Electricity does not come to us automatically. Similarly, nature is not working automatically; it is under the control of Krsna.

Student. In the Vedas it is said that material energy works under Krsna's direction.

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. As soon as you speak of energy, there must be a source.

The Mirage of the Material World

Karandhara. Geologists study the strata of the earth's crust to trace out the origin of the earth.

Srila Prabhupada. But these strata are being created and destroyed at every moment. Now they are one way, and a half hour from now they will be different. They are jagat, always changing. Krsna states in Bhagavad-gita (8.4), adhibhutam ksaro bhavah: "Physical nature is known to be endlessly mutable." Therefore, one cannot find out the source of all energy simply by observing the energy itself. Now the earth's strata may be black, later they may be white, and then again black. So the geologists study the black color, then the white color, again the black, and so on. This is called punah punas carvita-carvananam, "chewing the chewed." Now it is cold, at midday it will be warm, and at night it will be cold again. In this way, the entire material cosmic manifestation is subject to different types of change. Even our bodies are changing. Everything is changing. But what is the eternity behind this changing? That is the subject of real knowledge. The scientists do not find that eternity, and therefore they are disappointed. They think that the background of everything is void, zero. They think that eternity is zero. And when they are asked where this zero comes from, they say, "It comes from nothing." So we must ask them, "How have the varieties come about?" The Vedic conclusion is that variety is eternal, although the changing varieties the scientists study in the material world are temporary. These varieties are shadow varieties. Real variety exists eternally in the spiritual world.

Dr. Singh. So the material universe is like a mirage?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. Suppose I think I see water in the desert when there is not water. This is an illusion. Water exists, but not in the mirage. Similarly, the material varieties we see--the varieties of enjoyment--are like that mirage. We, the living entities, are meant for enjoyment, but we are seeking enjoyment in a false place--in an illusion. We are like the desert animals who run after water in a mirage and eventually die of thirst. They cannot relieve their thirst with such illusory water. Similarly, we are trying to manufacture many things to satisfy our thirst for enjoyment, but we are being baffled at every turn because material existence is an illusion. Therefore real intelligence means to inquire, "Where is the reality? Where is the eternal substance behind the illusion?" if we can find that out, we can experience real enjoyment.
We are not these temporary material bodies.
We are eternal spirit souls, part and parcel of the Supreme Spirit Soul (Krishna)
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare. / Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare

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Old 14-04-2008, 05:23 PM   #7
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Default Life Comes From Life (part 4)

The Progress of the Asses

Srila Prabhupada. Everyone is suffering here in the material world, and scientific improvement means that the scientists are creating a situation of further suffering. That's all. They are not making improvements. Bhaktivinoda Thakura confirms this by saying, moha janamiya, anitya samsare, jivake karaye gadha: "By so-called scientific improvements, the scientist has become an ass." Moreover, he is becoming a better and better ass, and nothing more. Suppose that by working very hard like an ass, a person builds a skyscraper. He may engage in a lifelong labor for this, but ultimately he must die. He cannot stay; he will be kicked out of his skyscraper, because material life is impermanent. Scientists are constantly doing research, and if you ask them what they are doing, they say, "Oh, it is for the next generation, for the future." But I say, "What about you? What about your skyscraper? If in your next life you are going to be a tree, what will you do with your next generation then?" But he is an ass. He does not know that he is going to stand before his skyscraper for ten thousand years. And what about the next generation? If there is no petrol, what will the next generation do? And how will the next generation help him if he is going to be a cat, a dog or a tree?
The scientists--and everyone else--should endeavor to achieve freedom from the repetition of birth and death. But instead, everyone is becoming more and more entangled in the cycle of birth and death. Bhave 'smin klisyamananam avidya-kama-karmabhih. This is a quotation from Srimad-Bhagavatam (1.8.35). Here in one line the whole material existence is explained. This is literature. This one line is worth thousands of years of research work. It explains how the living entity is taking birth in this world, where he comes from, where he is going, what his activities should be, and many other essential things. The words bhave 'smin klisyamananam refer to the struggle for existence. Why does this struggle exist? Because of avidya, ignorance. And what is the nature of that ignorance? Kama-karmabhih, being forced to work simply for the senses, or in other words, entanglement in material sense gratification.

Student. So, is it true that modern scientific research increases the demands of the body because the scientist is ultimately working to gratify his senses?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes.

Word Jugglery and World Crisis

Srila Prabhupada. It is said in the Vedas, yasmin vijnate sarvam evam vijnatam bhavati: "If one knows the Absolute Truth, then all other things become known." I am not a Ph.D., yet I can challenge the scientists. Why? Because I know Krsna, the Absolute Truth. Yasmin sthito na duhkhena gurunapi vicalyate: "If one is situated in Krsna consciousness, then even in the greatest calamities he will not be disturbed." (Bg. 6.22) Srimad-Bhagavatam (1.5.22) declares, avicyuto 'rthah kavibhir nirupito yad uttamasloka-gunanuvarnanam: "Great personalities have decided that Krsna consciousness is the perfection of life." This kind of knowledge is required. Not that we do some research, come up with a theory, and after fifteen years say, "No, no, it is not right--it is another thing." That is not science; that is child's play.

Dr. Singh. That is how they discover things--by research.

Srila Prabhupada. And what is the cost of the research? It is a scientific method for drawing money from others, that's all. In other words, it is cheating. Scientists juggle words like plutonium, photons, hydrogen and oxygen, but what good will people get from this? When people hear this jugglery of words, what can they say? One scientist explains something to some extent, and then another rascal comes along and explains it again, but differently, with different words. And all the time the phenomenon has remained the same. What advancement has been made? They have simply produced volumes of books. Now there is a petrol problem. Scientists have created it. If the petrol supply dwindles away, what will these rascal scientists do? They are powerless to do anything about it.

The Billion-Dollar Dustheap

Srila Prabhupada. Now there is a scarcity of water in India, but what are the scientists doing about it? There is more than enough water in the world, so why don't the scientists bring water where it is urgently required? They should employ irrigation immediately. But instead they are going to the moon, the dusty planet, to make it fertile. Why don't they irrigate this planet? There's plenty of seawater, so why don't they irrigate the Sahara or the Arabian or Rajasthani Desert? "Yes," they say, "in the future. We are trying." In their pride, they immediately say, "Yes, yes. We are trying." In Bhagavad-gita it is said that when one is engaged in the business of satisfying unnecessary desires, he becomes bereft of all intelligence (kamais tais tair hrta-jnanah).
This moon project is childish. Those who aspire to go to the moon are like crying children. A child cries, "Mother, give me the moon," so the mother gives the child a mirror and says, "Here is the moon, my dear son." And the child takes the mirror, sees the moon in it and says, "Oh, I have the moon." Unfortunately, this is not just a story.

Karandhara. After spending all that money to go to the moon and bring back just a few rocks, the people on the space project decided that there was nothing more to do there.

Brahmananda Swami. Now they want to go to another planet, but they are short of money. Going to other planets costs millions and billions of dollars.

Srila Prabhupada. People work very hard while the rascal government takes taxes and spends money unnecessarily. There should be no sympathy when so much hard-earned money comes from the public and is spent so foolishly. Now the leaders are presenting another bluff "Don't worry, we are going to another planet. Now we shall bring more dust. We shall bring tons of dust. Oh, yes, now we shall have tons of dust."

Dr. Singh. They believe there may be life on Mars.

Srila Prabhupada. They may believe or not believe. What is the difference? Life exists here, but people are fighting. So suppose there is life on Mars. There is life on Mars, undoubtedly. But what will we gain from this?

Dr. Singh. People are curious to know what is going on there.

Srila Prabhupada. That means that for their childish curiosity they must spend vast sums of money. Just see the fun. And when they are asked to help one of the many poverty-stricken countries, they say, "No. No money." Do you see?

Sankhya Philosophy and Modern Science

Dr. Singh. Srila Prabhupada, may we hear a little bit about Sankhya philosophy?

Srila Prabhupada. There are actually two kinds of Sankhya philosophy: the ancient Sankhya philosophy originally taught by Lord Kapiladeva, and the modern Sankhya philosophy taught more recently by the atheist Kapila. Lord Kapila's Sankhya explains how to become detached from matter and search out Lord Visnu within the heart. This Sankhya is actually a process of devotional service. But the modern Sankhya philosophy simply analyzes the material world into its various elements. In that respect, it is just like modern scientific research. Sankhya means "to count." We are also Sankhya philosophers to some extent because we count the material elements: this is land, this is water, this is fire, this is air, this is ether. Furthermore, I can count my mind, my intelligence and my ego. Beyond my ego, however, I cannot count. But Krsna says that there is something beyond the ego, and that is the living force. This is what scientists do not know. They think that life is merely a combination of material elements, but Krsna denies this in the Bhagavad-gita (7.5):

apareyam itas tv anyam
prakrtim viddhi me param
jiva-bhutam maha-baho
yayedam dharyate jagat

"Besides this inferior nature [earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego] there is a superior energy of Mine, which consists of all the living entities who are struggling with material nature and sustaining the universe."

Dr. Singh. Are both the inferior and the superior energies studied in modern Sankhya philosophy?

Srila Prabhupada. No. Modern Sankhya philosophers do not study the superior energy. They simply analyze the material elements, just as the scientists are doing. The scientists do not know that there is spirit soul, nor do the Sankhya philosophers.

Dr. Singh. They are analyzing the creative material elements?

Srila Prabhupada. The material elements are not creative! Only the soul is creative. Life cannot be created from matter, and matter cannot create itself. You, a living entity, can mix hydrogen and oxygen to create water. But matter itself has no creative potency. If you place a bottle of hydrogen near a bottle of oxygen, will they automatically combine, without your help?

Dr. Singh. No. They must be mixed.

Srila Prabhupada. Of course. Oxygen and hydrogen are Krsna's inferior energy, but when you, the superior energy, mix them, then they can become water.

The Remote Cause and the Immediate Cause

Srila Prabhupada. Inferior energy has no power unless superior energy is involved. This sea [indicating the Pacific Ocean] is calm and quiet. But when the superior force, air, pushes it, it manifests high waves. The ocean has no power to move without the superior force of the air. Similarly, there is another force superior to the air, and another and another, until ultimately we arrive at Krsna. This is real research. Krsna controls nature just as an engineer controls a train. The engineer controls the locomotive, which pulls one car, and that car in turn pulls another, which pulls another, and so the whole train is moving. Similarly, with the creation, Krsna gives the first push, and then, by means of successive pushes, the entire cosmic manifestation comes into being and is maintained. This is explained in Bhagavad-gita (9.10). Mayadhyaksena prakrtih suyate sacaracaram: "This material nature is working under My direction and is producing all moving and unmoving beings." And in the Fourteenth Chapter (14.4) Krsna says:

sarva-yonisu kaunteya
murtayah sambhavanti yah
tasam brahma mahad yonir
aham bija-pradah pita

"All species of life are made possible by birth in this material nature, O son of Kunti, and I am the seed-giving father." For example, if we sow a banyan seed, a huge tree eventually comes up and, along with it, millions of new seeds. Each of these seeds can in turn produce another tree with millions of new seeds, and so on. This is how Krsna, the original seed-giving father, is the primary cause of everything we see.
Unfortunately, the scientists observe only the immediate cause; they cannot perceive the remote cause. Krsna is described in the Vedas as sarva-karana-karanam, the cause of all causes. If one understands the cause of all causes, then he understands everything. Yasmin vijnate sarvam evam vijnatam bhavati: "If one knows the original cause, the subordinate causes are automatically known." Although the scientists are searching after the original cause, when the Vedas, perfect knowledge, declare the original cause to be the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the scientists won't accept it. They keep to their partial, imperfect knowledge. This is their disease.

The Cosmic Machine

Srila Prabhupada. Scientists do not know that there are two types of energy--inferior and superior--although they are actually working with these two energies every day. Material energy can never work independently; it must first come in contact with spiritual energy. So how can people accept that the entire cosmic manifestation, which is nothing but matter, has come about automatically? A competent machine does not work unless a man who knows how to work it pushes a button. A Cadillac is a nice car, but if it has no driver, what is the use of it? So the material universe is also a machine.
People are amazed at seeing a big machine with many, many parts, but an intelligent person knows that however wonderful a machine may be, it does not work unless an operator comes and pushes the proper button. Therefore, who is more important--the operator or the machine? So we are concerned not with the material machine--this cosmic manifestation--but with its operator, Krsna. Now you may say, "Well, how do I know that He is the operator?" Krsna says, mayadhyaksena prakrtih suyate sacaracaram: "Under My direction the whole cosmic manifestation is working." If you say, "No, Krsna is not the operator behind the cosmos," then you have to accept another operator, and you must present him. But this you cannot do. Therefore, in the absence of your proof, you should accept mine.
We are not these temporary material bodies.
We are eternal spirit souls, part and parcel of the Supreme Spirit Soul (Krishna)
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare. / Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare

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Old 24-04-2008, 08:33 PM   #8
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Post Life Comes From Life (part 5)

The Invisible Pilot

Srila Prabhupada. Almost everyone in the world is under the false impression that life is born from matter. We cannot allow this nonsensical theory to go unchallenged. Life does not come from matter. Matter is generated from life. This is not theory; it is fact. Science is based on an incorrect theory; therefore all its calculations and conclusions are wrong, and people are suffering because of this. When all these mistaken modern scientific theories are corrected, people will become happy. So we must challenge the scientists and defeat them; otherwise they will mislead the entire society. Matter changes in six phases: birth, growth, maintenance, production of by-products, dwindling and death. But the life within matter, the spirit soul, is eternal; it goes through no such changes. Life appears to be developing and decaying, but actually it is simply passing through each of these six phases until the material body can no longer be maintained. Then the old body dies, and the soul enters a new body. When our clothing is old and worn, we change it. Similarly, one day our bodies become old and useless, and we pass on to a new body.
As Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita (2.13), dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara. tatha dehantara-praptih: "As the embodied soul continually passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death." And a little later (2.18): antavanta ime deha nityasyoktah saririnah. This means that only the material body of the indestructible and eternal living entity is subject to destruction. The material body is perishable, but the life within the body is nitya, eternal.
Everything works on the basis of this living force. This is the Pacific Ocean, and these high waves are being manipulated by living force. This airplane [Srila Prabhupada gestures toward a passing aircraft] is flying, but is it flying undirected?

Dr. Singh. Someone is directing it.

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. Everything is working under someone's direction. Why do the rascal scientists deny this? The airplane is a big machine, but it is flying under the direction of a small spiritual spark, the pilot. Scientists cannot prove that this big 747 airplane could fly without the small spiritual spark. So, as the small spiritual spark can direct a large plane, the big spiritual spark directs the whole cosmic manifestation.

Setting the Real Problems Aside

Srila Prabhupada. The Svetasvatara Upanisad says:

satamsah sadrsatmakah
jivah suksma-svarupo 'yam
sankhyatito hi cit-kanah

According to this verse, the measurement of the soul, the proprietor of the body, is one ten-thousandth part of the tip of a hair. This is very small--atomic. But because of that atomic spiritual energy, my body is working. That atomic spiritual energy is within the body, and therefore the body works, and the airplane flies. Is it so difficult to understand?
Suppose a man thinks himself very stout and strong. Why is he stout and strong? It is only because within him there exists a spiritual spark. As soon as the small spiritual spark is gone, his strength and vigor disappear, and the vultures come and eat his body. If scientists say that matter is the cause and origin of life, then let us ask them to bring back to life just one dead man, one great man like Professor Einstein. Let them inject some chemicals so that just one dead man may come back to life and work again. But this they cannot do. There are so many things they do not know, but still they are called scientists.

Dr. Singh. Sometimes when a problem is too dreadfully serious, we tend to take it lightly.

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. When a monkey confronts a tiger, the monkey closes its eyes, and the tiger immediately attacks. Similarly, if scientists cannot solve a problem, they may think, "All right, let it go on." This is actually what they are doing, because our real problem is death. No one wants to die, but scientists cannot stop death. They speak superficially about death because they cannot give any relief from it. We do not wish to die, we do not wish to become old, and we do not wish to become diseased. But what help can the scientists offer? They cannot do anything about it. They have set aside the major problems.

President Jackal

Srila Prabhupada. In Bengal there is a story called jangal-ki raja, concerning a jackal who became king of the forest. Jackals are known for their cunning. One day this jackal came into a village and fell into a tub of blue dye. He fled to the forest, but he had become blue. So all the animals said, "What is this? What is this? Who is this animal?" Even the lion was surprised: "We have never seen you before, sir. So who are you?" The jackal replied, "I have been sent by God." So they began to worship him as God. But then one night some other jackals began to cry: "Wa, wa, wa!" And since jackals cannot restrain themselves from returning the call of their own kind, this blue jackal also began to cry, "Wa, wa, wa!" And thus he exposed himself before all the other animals as being nothing more than a jackal. Many jackals have been arrested and have resigned from your government.

Brahmananda Swami. The Watergate affair. It is called the Watergate scandal.

Srila Prabhupada. Practically speaking, at the present moment no honest man can become a government official. This is true everywhere. Unless one is a rogue, a dishonest person, one cannot maintain his governmental position. Therefore no noble man goes into the government. But what can you do?

Dr. Singh. Politicians are the greatest cheaters.

Srila Prabhupada. Yes, they are scoundrels. One philosopher said that politics is the last resort of scoundrels.

Science Should Stop Death

Brahmananda Swami. Do scientists know the cause of cancer?

Dr. Singh. They have several theories.

Srila Prabhupada. Suppose you know the cause of cancer. What is the benefit? Even if you could stop cancer, you could not make a man live forever. That is not possible. Cancer or no cancer, a man has to die. He cannot stop death. Death may be caused, if not by cancer, simply by an accident. Real scientific research should aim at stopping death. That is real science, and that is Krsna consciousness. Simply to discover some medicine to cure disease is not a triumph. The real triumph is to stop all disease. Bhagavad-gita (8.16) asserts that the real trouble is birth, death, old age and disease. Abrahma-bhuvanal lokah punar avartino 'rjuna: "From the highest planet in the material world down to the lowest, all are places of misery wherein repeated birth and death take place." The solution to the problem of repeated birth and death is Krsna consciousness, which we are practicing and offering to everyone. The perfect result of this practice is that after the present body becomes useless and dies, one is no longer forced to accept a material body subject to birth, death, disease and old age. This is real science
We are not these temporary material bodies.
We are eternal spirit souls, part and parcel of the Supreme Spirit Soul (Krishna)
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare. / Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare

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Default Life Comes From Life (part 6)

Chemicals From Mystic Power

Srila Prabhupada. The scientists say that life begins from chemicals. But the real question is, "Where have the chemicals come from?" The chemicals come from life, and this means that life has mystic powers. For example, an orange tree contains many oranges, and each orange contains chemicals--citric acid and others. So where have these chemicals come from? Obviously they have come from the life within the tree. The scientists are missing the origin of the chemicals. They have started their investigation from the chemicals, but they cannot identify the origin of the chemicals. Chemicals come from the supreme life--God. Just as the living body of a man produces many chemicals, the supreme life (the Supreme Lord) is producing all the chemicals found in the atmosphere, in the water, in humans, in animals and in the earth. And that is called mystic power. Unless the mystic power of the Lord is accepted, there is no solution to the problem of the origin of life.

Dr. Singh. The scientists will reply that they cannot believe in mystic power.

Srila Prabhupada. But they must explain the origin of the chemicals. Anyone can see that an ordinary tree is producing many chemicals. But how does it produce them? Since the scientists cannot answer this, they must accept that the living force has mystic power. I cannot even explain how my fingernail is growing out of my finger; it is beyond the power of my brain. In other words, my fingernail is growing by inconceivable potency, acintya-sakti. So if acintya-sakti exists in an ordinary human being, imagine how much acintya-sakti God possesses. The difference between God and me is that although I have the same potencies as God, I can produce only a small quantity of chemicals, whereas He can produce enormous quantities. I can produce a little water in the form of perspiration, but God can produce the seas. Analysis of one drop of seawater gives you the qualitative analysis of the sea, without any mistake. Similarly, the ordinary living being is part and parcel of God, so by analyzing the living beings we can begin to understand God. In God there is great mystic potency. God's mystic potency is working swiftly, exactly like an electric machine. Some machines operate by electrical energy, and they are so nicely made that all the work is done simply by pushing a button. Similarly, God said, "Let there be creation," and there was creation. Considered in this way, the workings of nature are not very difficult to understand. God has such wonderful potencies that the creation, on His order alone, immediately takes place.

Brahmananda Swami. Some scientists don't accept God or acintya-sakti.

Srila Prabhupada. That is their rascaldom. God exists, and His acintya-sakti also exists. Where does a bird's power to fly come from? Both you and the bird are living entities, but the bird can fly because of its acintya-sakti, and you cannot. To give another example, semen is produced from blood. A man has mystic power in his body so that because he is sexually inclined, blood is transformed into semen. How is this done unless there is some mystic power involved? There are many mystic powers in the living entities. The cow eats grass and produces milk. Everyone knows this, but can you take some grass and produce milk? Can you? Therefore there is mystic power within the cow. As soon as the cow eats grass, she can transform it into milk. Men and women are basically the same, but as a man you cannot eat food and produce milk, although a woman can. These are mystic powers.

Dr. Singh. Scientists would say that there are different enzymes or chemicals inside different types of bodies and that these account for the cow's producing milk.

Srila Prabhupada. Yes, but who produced those enzymes and that arrangement? That was done by mystic power. You cannot make these enzymes or that arrangement. You cannot produce milk from dry grass in your laboratory. Within your body, by mystic power, you can transform food into blood and tissue, but in your laboratory, without mystic power, you cannot even transform grass into milk. Therefore you must accept the existence of mystic power.

The Origin of Mystic Power

Srila Prabhupada. Yogis are mainly concerned with developing different mystic powers. A yogi can walk on the water without drowning. The law of gravity does not operate on him. That is a mystic power called laghima. Laghima means that a person can become lighter than cotton and counteract the law of gravity. The yoga system simply develops the inconceivable potency already present in the practitioner. These boys are swimming [gesturing to surf bathers], but I cannot swim. Yet that swimming power is potential within me; I simply have to practice it. So, if yogic power is so potent in the human being, think how much more yogic power God has. Therefore, in the Vedas He is called Yogesvara, which means "master of all mystic power." In the Bhagavad-gita (10.8) Krsna says, aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam pravartate: "I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me." Unless we accept this statement from God, there is no conclusive explanation to the origin of material nature. God cannot be understood without accepting the existence of mystic power, but if you understand God scientifically, then you will understand everything.

Dr. Singh. So do you mean to say that science has started from an intermediate point--not from the original point?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes, that is it exactly. They are ignorant of the origin. The scientists start from one point--but where does that point come from? That they do not know, in spite of vast research. One has to accept that the original source is God, who is full of all mystic powers and from whom everything emanates. He Himself says in the Bhagavad-gita, aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam pravartate: "I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me." Our conclusions are not based on blind faith; they are most scientific. Matter comes from life. In life--in the origin--there are unlimited material resources; that is the great mystery of creation. If you drop a needle, it will fall immediately, but a bird weighing several pounds can float in the air. We must establish the origin of this floating. If we study nature, we find that every living entity has some mystic power. A man cannot live within the water for more than a few hours, yet a fish lives there continuously. is that not mystic power?

Dr. Singh. It is mystic power for me, but not for the fish.

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. That is because mystic power is not uniformly distributed. But all the mystic powers exist in God, the origin of everything. I derive some of His mystic power, you derive some, and the birds derive some. But the storehouse of mystic power is God.
There are eight basic types of mystic powers. Some of them are laghima (by which one can become lighter than a feather), mahima (by which one can become bigger than a mountain), prapti (which enables one to capture anything he likes) and isitva (by which one can completely subdue and control another being). Another type of mystic power can be seen in the sun, because from the sunshine innumerable things are inexplicably produced. Unless the scientists accept the existence of mystic power, they cannot explain these phenomena. They are simply beating around the bush.

Dr. Singh. A clever scientist may say anything to prove his point, without actually proving it. A real scientist must reach the ultimate, original cause--the final analysis.

Srila Prabhupada. Yes, unless he finds the ultimate source, he is not actually practicing science.

Dr. Singh. Does understanding mysticism mean knowing that every day our bodies are dying?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes.

Dr. Singh. But the average man does not think he is dying.

Srila Prabhupada. That is due to foolishness. Every moment he is dying, but he is thinking, "I shall live forever." Actually, death begins from the very moment of birth. Our analysis of the problem is that since people are dying, we should stop their death. But the so-called scientists are not only accelerating the process of death, but also refusing to take constructive advice to correct themselves.
We are not these temporary material bodies.
We are eternal spirit souls, part and parcel of the Supreme Spirit Soul (Krishna)
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare. / Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare

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Old 16-05-2008, 03:49 PM   #10
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Default Life Comes From Life (part 7)

The Cheaters and the Cheated

Srila Prabhupada. Natural phenomena such as the law of gravity or weightlessness are acintya-sakti, inconceivable energies, and real science means to understand this acintya-sakti. To observe a chain of events only from a certain point in time is unscientific and gives only incomplete knowledge. We must know where things begin. If we carry our investigation far enough, we will find that the origin of nature is acintya-sakti. For example, with brain, brush and color we can paint a flower. But we cannot conceive how vegetation throughout the whole earth is automatically growing and fructifying. We can explain the painted flower, but we cannot explain the real flower. Scientists actually cannot explain biological growth. They simply juggle words like molecule and chromosome, but they cannot actually explain the phenomena.

The essential fault of the so-called scientists is that they have adopted the inductive process to arrive at their conclusions. For example, if a scientist wants to determine by the inductive process whether or not man is mortal, he must study every man to try to discover if some or one of them may be immortal. The scientist says, "I cannot accept the proposition that all men are mortal. There may be some men who are immortal. I have not yet seen every man. Therefore how can I accept that man is mortal?" This is called the inductive process. And the deductive process means that your father, your teacher or your guru says that man is mortal, and you accept it.

Dr. Singh. So there is an ascending process of gaining knowledge and a descending process?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. The ascending process will never be successful, because it relies on the information gathered through the senses, and the senses are imperfect. So we accept the descending process.

God cannot be known by the inductive process. Therefore He is called adhoksaja, which means "unknowable by direct perception." The scientists say there is no God because they are trying to understand Him by direct perception. But He is adhoksaja! Therefore, the scientists are ignorant of God because they are missing the method of knowing Him. In order to understand transcendental science, one must approach a bona fide spiritual master, hear from him submissively and render service to him. Lord Krsna explains that in the Bhagavad-gita (4.34): tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya.

My Guru Maharaja once said, "The modern world is a society of the cheaters and the cheated." Unfortunately, the cheated are eulogizing the cheaters, and the small cheaters are worshiping the great cheaters. Suppose a flock of asses comes and eulogizes me, saying, "Oh, you are Jagad-guru." What is the value of their praise? But if a gentleman or learned man gives praise, his words have some value. Generally, however, the persons who are praising and those who are being praised are both ignorant. As the Vedas put it, samstutah purusah pasuh: "A big animal is being praised by a small animal."


Srila Prabhupada. The law is cheating, medical science is cheating, and the government is cheating. Top government officials are charged with taking bribes. If the governor takes bribes and the constable takes bribes, then where is the good society? People elect the leader who promises them happiness. But since that happiness is maya [or illusion], he can never deliver it, and society simply becomes filled with cheaters. Since people are actually after this illusory happiness, however, they continue to elect such unscrupulous leaders time and time again.

The position of a Vaisnava is to take compassion on all these ignorant people. The great Vaisnava Prahlada Maharaja once prayed to the Lord, "My Lord, as far as I am concerned, I have no problems. My consciousness is always absorbed in Your very powerful transcendental activities, and therefore I have understood things clearly. But I am deeply concerned for these rascals who are engaged in activities for illusory happiness." A Vaisnava thinks only about how people can become happy. He knows that they are vainly searching after something that will never come to be. For fifty or sixty years people search after illusory happiness, but then they must die without completing the work and without knowing what will happen after death. Actually, their position is like that of an animal, because an animal also does not know what happens to him after death. The animal does not know the value of life, nor why he has come here. By the influence of maya, he simply eats, sleeps, mates, defends and dies. That's all. Throughout their lives the ignorant animals--and the animalistic men--greatly endeavor to do these five things only: eat, sleep, mate, defend and die. Therefore the business of a Vaisnava is to instruct people that God exists, that we are His servants, and that we can enjoy an eternally blissful life serving Him and developing our love for Him.

Beyond the Cage

Dr. Singh. But doesn't the living entity need matter as long as he is in material nature?

Srila Prabhupada. No, the living entity is purely spiritual; therefore, he doesn't require matter. Because his thinking is diseased, however, he believes he does. The conditioned living entity is like a drunkard who doesn't require drinking, but who nevertheless thinks, "Without drinking, I shall die." This is called maya, or illusion. is it true that if a drunkard doesn't get his drink, he will die?

Dr. Singh. No, but if a man doesn't eat, he will die.

Srila Prabhupada. That's also not a fact. Last night we were discussing Raghunatha dasa Gosvami. In his later life, he almost completely abstained from eating and sleeping. He would drink only a little buttermilk every three or four days, and he worked twenty-two hours a day, sleeping two or three. And some days he did not sleep at all. So you may ask, "How could he survive?" Actually, he lived for one hundred years. Eating, sleeping, mating and defending were not problems for Raghunatha dasa Gosvami, but still he lived. Because he was a pure devotee of Krsna, he was fully aware that the soul is eternal and independent, although it has been put into this bodily cage, which it actually does not require. Suppose a bird is encaged. Is he living simply because he is in the cage? Without the cage he is free. People are thinking that by being encaged within the body they are happy. That is nonsense. Actually, our encagement within this body makes us fearful. But as soon as we purify our existence--we do not even have to come out of our bodies--we will immediately be abhaya, fearless.

brahma-bhutah prasannatma
na socati na kanksati
samah sarvesu bhutesu
mad-bhaktim labhate param

We can immediately awaken to our original, spiritual existence, in which there is no more fear, no more lamentation, and no more material desire.

Dr. Singh. But the scientist would still want some more explanations as to how the living entity can be independent of matter.

Srila Prabhupada. As long as you are conditioned, you are dependent on matter. For example, a man from Africa is conditioned because he cannot tolerate this cold weather. Therefore he feels discomfort. But there are many people here [gesturing toward children playing on the beach] who are not affected by the cold. The ability to tolerate is simply a question of conditioning.

When you are conditioned, you think in terms of dualities like hot and cold, pain and pleasure. But when you are liberated, you have no such conditioned thoughts. Spiritual life means to become unconditioned--to come to the brahma-bhuta stage. That is the perfection of life. Being conditioned means that although the living entity is eternal, due to his conditioning he thinks that he is born, he is dying, he is diseased and he is old. But an unconditioned person is not even old. Krsna is described in the Brahma-samhita as advaitam acyutam anadim ananta rupam adyam purana-purusam nava-yauvanam ca. This means that He is the oldest person, the first person, but that He has no old age. He always appears just like a young man of twenty because He is fully spiritual.
We are not these temporary material bodies.
We are eternal spirit souls, part and parcel of the Supreme Spirit Soul (Krishna)
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare. / Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare

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Old 16-05-2008, 10:08 PM   #11
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Love this thread: 5 starts. Much wisdom.

Material scientists are a joke, and people are being 'educated' by it and believe they are intelligent, yet the most logical question they cannot answer.
And they always tell how logic and reasoning they are.
With such materialistic thinking people will become meaningless and will try to do anything to satisfy their lower senses. This whole denial of spirit is utter bullshit..if people had spiritual experiences like obe's for example they'd understand.

And I must say..I looooove the frog story, made me smile

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Old 16-05-2008, 10:48 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by element View Post
Love this thread: 5 starts. Much wisdom.

Material scientists are a joke, and people are being 'educated' by it and believe they are intelligent, yet the most logical question they cannot answer.
And they always tell how logic and reasoning they are.
With such materialistic thinking people will become meaningless and will try to do anything to satisfy their lower senses. This whole denial of spirit is utter bullshit..if people had spiritual experiences like obe's for example they'd understand.

And I must say..I looooove the frog story, made me smile
Yes, the "Illuminati" controlled scientists want to keep us trapped in the material dimensions, using us as slaves, disconnected from our source of spiritual power.

Dr. Frog (PHD) by Srila Prabhupada

There are two methods of acquiring knowledge, one is called the descending process and the other is called the ascending process. Krishna consciousness follows the descending process. Perfect knowledge is passed from Krishna to the first spiritual master, Lord Brahma, from Lord Brahma to his son Narada Muni, from Narada to Srila Vyasadeva, then Srila Vyasadeva wrote down all the Vedic scriptures. In this way the perfect knowledge is coming to us through the disciplic succession. This is a perfect source of knowledge because Krishna is all knowing, He knows everything. Whatever Krishna says is not contaminated by the limitations of our material senses.

When we try to present knowledge without taking it from Krishna in the disciplic succession it is always contaminated by four types of defects: we have a tendency to cheat, we are illusioned -- we accept something as a fact which is not actually a fact, our senses are imperfect and we make mistakes. Because all scientific research is riddled with these faults it is all imperfect knowledge. However, if we take the knowledge coming down from the perfect source, Krishna, via the unbroken chain of disciplic succession, it is perfect. We don't need to do anything except accept the knowledge, all the research work has already been done.

All knowledge exists in the Vedas, the ancient scriptures of India. The scriptures of India are called Veda and Veda means knowledge. So in the Vedas we can find knowledge about every conceivable subject matter, because all knowledge is there. There is Dana Veda -- the science of warfare, the Jyoti Veda -- the science of astronomy and astrology, the Ayur Veda -- the medical science. There are also Vedic scriptures describing architecture, the construction of aeroplanes and space ships, even interplanetary travel -- everything is there in the Vedic knowledge.

Any knowledge we see scattered across the planet at the moment is simply fragments of this Vedic knowledge. Five thousand years ago the Vedic culture was spread all over the planet. At that time the earth was being ruled by a king called Maharaja Pariksit. Under his rule the whole planet was following the Vedic culture. Since then the planet has become more and more divided. We can still see examples of countries being split for political reasons. Basically the Vedic culture has been lost, but there are still remnants. You will find many similarities in different cultures which, from our Western point of view, seem to have developed independently. There are also many similarities in languages. This is because originally the one culture, the Vedic culture, was spread all over the world.

I have described the descending process of knowledge, knowledge being passed down from a higher authority. The other process for acquiring knowledge is the ascending process. This is the method our scientists use. They try to understand things around them by the perceptions of their senses. Using information gathered through their senses they develop hypothesis to explain the observed phenomena. This process is not perfect because our sense perceptions are themselves imperfect. Our senses only give a small sample of the actual data. For example the eyes can only see within a restricted range of the spectrum. There are light waves above the colours we can see and the are also light waves below the colours we can see. We can only see one small band. We can also only see a short distance, after some distance everything becomes blurred and indistinct. In this way the information coming through our eyes is not perfect because we can only see a very limited amount of the actual information. Similar limitations apply to all our other senses. Not only are the senses imperfect, but I am also imperfect. If I have a hypothesis which I am anxious to prove the tendency is for me to cheat. Because I want some recognition by proving my particular theory I will tend to ignore the evidence that doesn't support my theory and I will report the evidence which does. This tendency to cheat is within us all. Therefore in every way our so-called scientific knowledge is imperfect.

The analogy has been given of Dr. Frog. A frog often lives in a well. The well is one meter wide, it's in the middle of a field and above the well is a tree. Our Dr. Frog has spent his whole life in that well. He has no experience beyond that one meter diameter well. But he has seen so much through the hole in the top of his well! Sometimes he sees nice blue sky and trees with green leaves, sometimes he sees clouds in the sky, sometimes rain comes through the top of his well, sometimes the leaves from the tree fall into his well. So Dr. Frog has experienced many things, he's seen so much. As a result of all of his observation he has been able to come up with his own particular universal view, "The universe according to Dr. Frog." He doesn't know there is any more than he has seen. He has only seen what is visible through the hole in the top of his well, so he thinks that's all there is, he thinks that's the universe. He has developed so much philosophy, so many theories to describe what is happening in his universe. But what can he see? So what is the value of his conclusions? His conclusions are useless. The difficulty is if somebody comes from outside to tell him about the actual universe he won't be able to understand it because it's outside the scope of his world.

One day another frog hopped into Dr. Frog's well. This frog had not been confined to a one metre wide well for his whole life, he had travelled quite a bit, he'd even seen the Pacific Ocean. So he tried to explain to Dr. Frog, "My dear friend, I have seen such a vast mass of water, it is called the Pacific Ocean." So Dr. Frog said, "Yes. Please explain it to me." But he was thinking in terms of the water in his well, so he thought, "Perhaps it's twice as big as my well, perhaps three times as big as my well, maybe it is even five times bigger." In this way he tried to understand the Pacific Ocean but it was impossible because he can't even conceive of the greatness of the Pacific Ocean.

Our scientists are something like Dr. Frog. They are confident they have a clear understanding of the universe around them. After all they have such big expensive equipment, they get so many big grants from the government and they have so many respectable predecessor scientists who have put forward so many nice hypothesises which they now accept as facts. They think they are well situated, but what have they seen? We know this planet is only one of so many planets in the universe. Even within this universe we are insignificant. The creation of the Supreme Lord consists of not just one universe but of unlimited universes. In the Vedic literature the number of universes is compared to a bucket full of mustard seeds. If you look at a mustard seed you will find it is a very small seed. A whole bucket of mustard seeds is a huge quantity, millions and millions. So universes are clustered together like this and our planet earth is only one tiny fragment of one of the smallest universes. But our "Dr. Frog" scientists think they understand how things are going on. They think one day they will be able to control everything. One day they will be able to make it rain when they want, they will make man live forever, they will be able to do anything they like. However, in reality, their knowledge is comparable to Dr. Frog's knowledge of his universe. Of course there may be some glimmer of truth in some of the scientific theories but they are all full of defects: the tendency to make mistakes, the tendency to cheat, the problem of being illusioned and the difficulty of the senses being imperfect. These defects are present in all of our so-called scientific theories.

If you're very small and inside a very large piece of machinery it might be difficult to understand what the machine is doing. If, however, you are in a position where you can see the whole machine, you can see what is going into it and what is coming out at the other end, it's not difficult to understand what it's doing. Another example concerns a group of blind men. If a group of blind men come across an elephant in the jungle and they try to discover what it is. One blind man takes the elephant's leg and he says, "It's just like a tree trunk," another one takes the trunk of the elephant and he says, "No. It's just like a big hose." Another one takes a different part of the elephant. In this way they can't understand the elephant in its entirety. They can only understand fragments of the elephant. One understands the foot, one the leg, one the trunk, one the ear, but they can't put all the pieces together and understand what the elephant is. They have no ability to see the elephant in full.

From our position in the universe we can't see it in a very broad way, we can only see some small features, we have fragmental knowledge only. There are many things in the universe we can't see at all. If we go back to Dr. Frog, he can speculate on so many things about what is going on in the universe but there are so many things he can't see at all. There could be a tractor plowing the field but he can only hear the noise coming into his well. He can speculate, "What is this noise?" He has heard a fly or a bee making a similar but softer noise so he may think the noise is coming from a big fly or a big bee that he can't see. That's alright, it's a reasonable hypothesis considering his experience, he has never seen a tractor and he will never see on either, the tractor won't come into his well. He will just sometimes hear the noise when the farmer is plowing the field, that's all.

Our scientists view the universe in a similar way, they see little hints of what's going on but they cant see the "big picture". This is the difficulty with all our Western knowledge, it's all speculation, it's all based on fragmental pieces of knowledge -- they guess all the missing parts. It's like the fossil experts, they just find a bone and from one bone they build a whole skeleton, they just imagine it, more or less. The tendency to cheat is there, they are prepared to build a whole skeleton based on one bone just to support their theories.

All information we receive through modern science is useless, even though there may be a glimmer of truth here and there, it's all contaminated by the tendency to cheat, the problems of being illusioned, the imperfect senses and the tendency to make mistakes. You may well ask, "If all the scientific knowledge we have is useless then where can we find real knowledge?" The answer is we get knowledge from Krishna via the disciplic succession. The Vedic scriptures present scientific knowledge and the cream of all the Vedic scriptures is Srimad-Bhagavatam. Srimad Bhagavatam contains all scientific knowledge. It describes knowledge like the structure of the universe, how the child develops within the womb of the mother, how time is calculated from the movement of the atoms, atomic physics, it describes everything -- all knowledge is there both material and spiritual.

If you want to become a real scientist, a real expert, a knowledgable person, you should throw all your Western science books out the window and simply study the Srimad-Bhagavatam.

If someone simply continuously reads Srimad-Bhagavatam he will become completely expert in all aspects of knowledge. No other literature is required, there is no knowledge that can not to be found in the Bhagavatam. It includes everything. Therefore I humbly request you to make your life successful by reading the Srimad-Bhagavatam and questioning knowledge coming from the Western so-called scientific system. We shouldn't blindly accept things. It's not just because it's written in the science book it's a fact. It's not a fact -- they present so much nonsense, so much speculation, it's all useless. If we want real scientific knowledge we have to get it from Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the Supreme Scientist. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna.
We are not these temporary material bodies.
We are eternal spirit souls, part and parcel of the Supreme Spirit Soul (Krishna)
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare. / Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare


Last edited by pilgrim; 16-05-2008 at 11:06 PM.
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Old 18-05-2008, 06:54 PM   #13
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Life comes from life, yea all one needs to do it look around her/him self to see that this is indeed true and therefore evolution theory fails. Thank you for post hope people hear more of this massage and see that some of well accepted theories are just that, theories.
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Old 27-05-2008, 04:53 PM   #14
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Default Life Comes From Life (part 8)

The Evolution of Consciousness

Dr. Singh. Srila Prabhupada, I came across a statement in the Bhagavad-gita to the effect that all 8,400,000 species of living entities are created simultaneously. Is that correct?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes.

Dr. Singh. Does that mean that there are some living entities who come directly to the human species without undergoing the evolutionary process?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. Living beings move from one bodily form to another. The forms already exist. The living entity simply transfers himself, just as a man transfers himself from one apartment to another. One apartment is first class, another is second class and another is third class. Suppose a person comes from a lower-class apartment to a first-class apartment. The person is the same, but now, according to his capacity for payment, or karma, he is able to occupy a higher-class apartment. Real evolution does not mean physical development, but development of consciousness. Do you follow?

Dr. Singh. I think so. Do you mean that if one falls to one of the lower stages of life, he must evolve step by step up to the higher stages?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. As you get more money you can move to a better apartment. The apartment already exists, however. It is not that the lower-class apartment becomes the higher-class apartment. That is Darwin's nonsensical theory. He would say that the apartment has become high class. Modern scientists think that life has come from matter. They say that millions and millions of years ago there was simply matter, but no life. We do not accept that. Of the two energies--life and matter--life, or spirit, is the original, superior energy, and matter is the resultant inferior energy.

Dr. Singh. Do they exist simultaneously?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes, but spirit is independent, and matter is dependent. For example, I can live even without my hands or legs. If they were amputated, I could survive. Therefore I am not dependent on my hands and legs; my hands and legs are dependent on me, the spirit soul within my body.

Bodies for Eternal Desires

Dr. Singh. But do life and matter come simultaneously?

Srila Prabhupada. No. They do not "come" at all. They already exist. The "coming" idea is in our minds because we are living in this limited world, where we see that there is a beginning to everything. Therefore we think in terms of things "coming." But actually matter and spirit already exist. When I am born, I think my birth is the beginning of the world. But the world already exists. Another example is a fire. When you light a fire, do the light and heat begin later on? No. Whenever a fire is ignited, immediately there is light and heat. But suppose I think, "Now there is a fire, but I have to wait for the light and heat to come later on." isn't that foolishness?

Dr. Singh. But fire is the source of the heat and light.

Srila Prabhupada. Yes, but still the heat and light exist simultaneously with the fire. Similarly, the eternal living entities have many different eternal desires. And all the varieties of species also exist eternally to fit these various eternal desires.

Dr. Singh. And the living entities are made to live in different bodies according to these desires?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. For example, the government constructs a prison house because it knows there will be criminals. So when a criminal is tried and convicted, the prison already exists, even before the judgment period. Similarly, God is described as sarva-jna, He who knows everything. Thus He knows that some living entities will become criminal and rebel against His service. Furthermore, He knows the various desires the living entities in the material world acquire according to the three modes of material nature. Therefore He creates all the species of life from the very beginning to accommodate all the conditioned souls.

The three modes of material nature are sattva-guna [goodness], rajo-guna [passion] and tamo-guna [ignorance]. With these three qualities, all the different objects of the material world are made, just as one might mix the three primary colors (blue, red and yellow) to make millions of hues. The great expertise required to handle this arrangement exists in nature. According to the Bhagavad-gita (3.27), prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah: "All activities are performed by the modes of material nature." And these modes are manifested in the different types of species, which include plants, trees, aquatics, human beings, demigods, cats, dogs and many others, totaling 8,400,000.

The Supreme Lord expands Himself as the Paramatma, or Supersoul, in everyone's heart. Although dwelling in the material body, this Supersoul is not material, even though He is the original source of the material body. Because heat and light are the energies of the sun, the sun never feels "too hot." Similarly, for the Paramatma there is no distinction between spiritual and material because both the material and the spiritual energies emanate from Him. Sometimes we see that clouds cover the sun; but that is actually our imperfection. We on this planet experience both sunshine and cloudiness, but on the sun, even though it can create clouds, only sunshine is experienced. Similarly, the division of matter and spirit is our experience, not God's. Whether He comes in a so-called material body or in a spiritual body, He is always spiritual. For Him matter and spirit are the same because He is the energetic. He can turn matter into spirit, and spirit into matter.

H2O Plus Mystic Power

Dr. Singh. The chemists and the scientists think that certain elements enable the spirit soul to remain in the material world. These elements, they say, are carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen and oxygen--the main elements that combine to form living units. I think the Vedas teach that in order for a living creature to develop, spirit must first enter within these preexisting chemical elements. Is that correct?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. For example, the earth contains everything necessary for a plant to grow, but you must first put a seed in the earth. Similarly, a mother has within her womb all the necessary ingredients for creating another body, but the father must first inject the semen, or seed, into the womb; then the child will develop. A dog forms a dog's body, and a human forms a human body. Why? Because all the required ingredients are there, respectively.

We find a certain quantity of chemicals in my body, a smaller quantity in an ant's body, and a greater quantity in an elephant's body. So, if I can create so many more chemicals than an ant, and an elephant can create so many more chemicals than I can, then just think how many more chemicals God can create! This is the basis on which scientists should consider how hydrogen and oxygen combine to form water. Otherwise, they cannot identify the source of the vast quantities of hydrogen and oxygen required to make the oceans. But we can. This hydrogen and oxygen exist in the virat-rupa, the universal body of the Lord. Why do the scientists fail to understand this plain truth? Hydrogen and oxygen combine to form the water in the seas. We both accept this fact. But the scientists are surprised to hear that the origin of this huge quantity of hydrogen and oxygen is actually acintya-sakti, or the inconceivable mystic power of the Lord.

The Definition of "Life"

Dr. Singh. I have noticed a disagreement within the scientific community over the definition of living and nonliving. Some say that if a being can reproduce, it is alive. Therefore, they claim to have created life because certain large DNA molecules produced in the laboratory can replicate themselves; that is, they can reproduce other chains of molecules by their own power. Some scientists say these DNA molecules are living, and others say they are not.

Srila Prabhupada. Because somebody is saying one thing and somebody is saying another, their knowledge must be imperfect.

Dr. Singh. Can we define living as "containing consciousness" and nonliving as "without consciousness"?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes, that is the difference. As Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita (2.17), avinasi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idam tatam: "That which is spread all over the body is indestructible." Anyone can understand what is spread all over a living body; it is consciousness. According to our consciousness at the time of death, we are awarded a particular bodily shape. If you have a dog's consciousness, you will get a dog's body, and if you have a godly consciousness, you get a demigod's body. Krsna gives everyone the freedom to take whatever body he wants:

yanti deva-vrata devan
pitrn yanti pitr-vratah
bhutani yanti bhutejya
yanti mad-yajino 'pi mam

"Those who worship the demigods will take birth among the demigods; those who worship ghosts and spirits will take birth among such beings; those who worship ancestors go to the ancestors; and those who worship Me will live with Me." (Bg. 9.25)

Darwin Condemned

Dr. Singh. If a human being doesn't attain liberation, does he have to pass through all 8,400,000 species of life before again coming to the human form?

Srila Prabhupada. No, only in the lower forms of life does the living entity progress step by step, according to the laws of nature. In the human form of life, he is endowed with developed consciousness--he has discretion. Therefore if he is advanced in consciousness, he is not going to get the body of a dog or cat; he will get another human body.

prapya punya-krtam lokan
usitva sasvatih samah
sucinam srimatam gehe
yoga-bhrasto 'bhijayate [16]

The word yoga-bhrastah refers to someone practicing yoga who somehow or other could not fully succeed. There's no question of evolution here; he is again awarded a human body. He does not get a cat's body or a dog's body. As with the apartments we were discussing, if you can pay more, you get a nicer apartment. You do not have to come to the lower-class apartment first.

Dr. Singh. What you have been saying completely contradicts Darwin's theory of evolution.

Srila Prabhupada. Darwin is a rascal. What is his theory? We kick out Darwin's philosophy. The more we kick out Darwin's philosophy, the more we advance in spiritual consciousness.

Dr. Singh. Many scientists doubt Darwin's theories. But Darwin's supporters say that life started from matter and evolved from unicellular organisms to multicellular organisms. They believe that higher species like animals and men did not exist at the beginning of creation.

Srila Prabhupada. Darwin and his followers are rascals. If originally there were no higher species, why do they exist now? Also, why do the lower species still exist? For example, at the present moment we see both the intellectual person and the foolish ass. Why do both these entities exist simultaneously? Why hasn't the ass form evolved upward and disappeared? Why do we never see a monkey giving birth to a human? The Darwinists' theory that human life began in such and such an era is nonsense. Bhagavad-gita says that you can directly transmigrate to any species of life you like, according to your efforts. Sometimes I travel to America, sometimes to Australia and sometimes to Africa. The countries already exist. I am simply traveling through them. It is not that because I have come to America, I have created or become America. And there are many countries I have not yet seen. Does that mean they do not exist? The scientists who support Darwin are nonsensical.
Bhagavad-gita clearly says that all the species exist simultaneously, and that you can go to whichever species you like. You can even go up to the kingdom of God, if you so desire. All this is declared in Bhagavad-gita by Lord Krsna.
We are not these temporary material bodies.
We are eternal spirit souls, part and parcel of the Supreme Spirit Soul (Krishna)
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare. / Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare

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Old 10-06-2008, 04:29 PM   #15
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Default Life Comes From Life (part 9)

Evolution From Human to Dog

Srila Prabhupada. The so-called scientists are putting their faith in a fraudulent theory. Krsna says, aham sarvasya prabhavah: "I am the origin of everything." (Bg. 10.8) Krsna is life; Krsna is not a dead stone.

Dr. Singh. So matter is caused by life?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes, and matter grows upon life; my body grows upon me, the spirit soul. For example, I have put on this overcoat, which is made according to the size of my body. But i would be foolish if I thought, "I am this overcoat."

Student. Srila Prabhupada, mineralogists have proven that mountains are growing by sedimentary activity. Is this growth due to the presence of the spirit soul?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. Srimad-Bhagavatam describes mountains as the bones of God, and the grass as the hair on His body. So, in this sense, God has the biggest body.

Dr. Singh. Srila Prabhupada, what is the difference between the transmigration of souls in animal bodies and the transmigration of human souls?

Srila Prabhupada. Animals transmigrate in only one direction--upward--but human beings can transmigrate to either a higher or a lower form of life. The body is awarded according to the living entity's desire. The lower animals have one kind of desire, but the human being has thousands and millions of desires--animal desires as well as human desires. By nature's law, the lower species are coming up from animal forms to the higher, human forms. But once you come to the human form, if you don't cultivate Krsna consciousness you may return to the body of a cat or dog.


Dr. Singh. The scientists have no information that there is evolution up or down from the human platform.

Srila Prabhupada. Therefore I say they are rascals. They have no knowledge, yet they still claim to be scientists. Real science is in the Bhagavad-gita, where Krsna says, yanti deva-vrata devan pitrn yanti pitr-vratah (Bg. 9.25). This means that whatever one worships in this life will determine the type of body he gets in his next life. But if one worships Krsna, he ends the process of transmigration entirely. Yam prapya na nivartante tad dhama: "When one goes to that supreme abode of Mine, he never returns [to this material world of birth and death]." (Bg. 8.21) Promotion to the spiritual world (samsiddhim paramam) is the ultimate perfection of human life. Read Bhagavad-gita; everything is there. But the scientists have no idea of this perfection; they do not even believe in the existence of the living entity apart from the gross body.

Dr. Singh. They do not speak of the living entity; they speak only of bodies.
Student. Their conception is something akin to Buddhism. The Buddhists say that the body is like a house. Just as a house is put together with wood, the body is put together with chemicals. And when the body dies, it is just like a house that falls apart. Just as the house becomes simply pieces of wood and then there is no more house, so the body becomes simply chemicals, and there is no more body and no more life.

Srila Prabhupada. That state is called nirvana. And then, with the ingredients, you can build another house or another body. That is Buddhism. The Buddhists do not have any information regarding the soul.

Destiny and Karma

Student. Some scientists argue that there are several souls within each body. They use the earthworm as an example. If you cut it in half, both parts will live. They say this proves that two souls occupied the original worm's body.

Srila Prabhupada. No. It is simply that a new soul has come to occupy the other half of the worm's body.

Dr. Singh. Must the spirit soul necessarily have a body--either spiritual or material?

Srila Prabhupada. The soul already has a spiritual body, which the material body covers. My material body grows upon me--my spiritual body--but my material body is unnatural. The real body is spiritual. I am accepting various bodies that are unnatural to my constitution. My real, constitutional position is to be the servant of Krsna. As long as I do not come to that position, I remain a servant of matter and get many material bodies according to the laws of material energy. i get one body and then give it up. I desire something else and again get another body. This process is going on under the strict laws of material nature. People think they completely control their destinies, but they are always under nature's law of karma:

prakrteh kriyamanani
gunaih karmani sarvasah
kartaham iti manyate

"The bewildered spirit soul, under the influence of the three modes of material nature, thinks himself to be the doer of activities that are In actuality carried out by nature." (Bg. 3.27) The source of this bewilderment is that the living entity thinks, "I am this body."

isvarah sarva-bhutanam
hrd-dese 'rjuna tisthati
bhramayan sarva-bhutani
yantrarudhani mayaya

In this verse the word yantra, or "machine," means that in any species of life, we are traveling in bodies that are like machines provided by material nature. Sometimes we are moving to higher species, sometimes to lower species. But if, by the mercy of the spiritual master and Krsna, one gets the seed of devotional service and cultivates it, he can become free from the cycle of birth and death. Then his life is successful. Otherwise, he has to travel up and down the different species of life, becoming sometimes a blade of grass, sometimes a lion, and so forth.

Advertising Ignorance as knowledge

Student. So it is our desire to enjoy that causes us to take on these material bodies, and our desire to achieve Krsna that brings us to our natural position?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes.

Dr. Singh. But there seems to be a constant struggle with our lower nature. We are constantly fighting our desires for sense gratification, even though we want to serve Krsna. Does this continue?

Student. The body is almost like a dictator from within.

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. That means you are strongly under the control of material energy, or maya.

Dr. Singh. Even though we also desire to serve Krsna?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. A thief may know that if he steals he will be arrested and put into jail--he may have even seen others being arrested--yet he still steals. Even though he is aware that he is under the authority of the state, he still acts according to his desires. This is called tamas, or ignorance. Therefore, knowledge is the beginning of spiritual life. In Bhagavad-gita, Krsna gives Arjuna knowledge. He teaches, "You are not this body." This is the beginning of knowledge. But where is the university that teaches this knowledge? Dr. Singh, can you tell me where that university is that teaches this knowledge?

Dr. Singh. There is none.

Srila Prabhupada. That is the position of education: there is no knowledge. They simply advertise ignorance as knowledge.

Dr. Singh. But if the scientists knew that they were not their bodies, their whole outlook would change.

Srila Prabhupada. Yes, we want that.

Student. But they don't want to admit their failure.

Srila Prabhupada. Then that is further foolishness. If you are a fool and you pose yourself as intelligent, that is further foolishness. Then you cannot make progress. And if you remain in ignorance and advertise yourself as a man of knowledge, you are a great cheater. You are cheating yourself and cheating others. People are so mad after the material advancement of civilization that they have become exactly like cats and dogs. For instance, they have set up an immigration department, and as soon as you enter a country these dogs go "Woof, woof, woof! Why have you come? What is your business?" This is a watchdog's activity. A first-class gentleman is being searched for a revolver. People cannot be trusted, and now there are so many educated rogues and thieves. So what is the meaning of advancement? Can we say that education means advancement? Is this civilization?

Fighting Ignorance With Arguments and Knowledge

Student. Some people say that one reason for the Vietnam war was that the Communists were atheists. It was a dispute between the theists and the atheists. At least that is one excuse given for the war.

Srila Prabhupada. We are also prepared to kill the atheists. But that killing is by preaching. If I kill your ignorance, it can also be called killing. Killing doesn't necessarily mean that everyone has to take the sword.

Dr. Singh. A new method of warfare?

Srila Prabhupada. No, fighting ignorance with arguments and knowledge has always existed. The bodily conception of life is animal life. The animal does not know about matter and spirit. And one who is under the bodily conception of life is no better than an animal. When an animal "talks," the intelligent man laughs. Such "talk" is nonsense. The animal is not talking knowledge.

Student. At least the animals live by certain codes. They do not kill unnecessarily, and they only eat when necessary, whereas humans kill unnecessarily and eat unnecessarily. So in one sense humans are lower than animals.

Srila Prabhupada. Therefore we must suffer more than animals. Krsna consciousness is not a bogus, sentimental religious movement. It is a scientific movement designed to alleviate human suffering.

Dr. Singh. Scientists and other people say that everything in the universe is happening by chance.

Srila Prabhupada. So, are they also writing books on the subject by chance?

Karandhara. The books are also written by chance, they say.

Srila Prabhupada. So, what is their credit? By chance, anything can be written.

Dr. Singh. The French scientist Dr. J. Monod got the Nobel Prize in 1965. He says that everything started by chance--that by chance certain chemicals combined and formed the basic molecules.

Srila Prabhupada. But where did the chemicals come from?

Dr. Singh. According to him, they were created simply by chance, and when the necessity arose, molecules of the chemicals reoriented themselves.

Srila Prabhupada. If everything was happening by chance, how can there be necessity? How can he speak of chance and necessity in the same breath? It is nonsense. If everything is directed by chance, why do people send their children to school? Why not let them grow up by chance? Suppose I break a law. If I say, "Well, it just happened by chance," will I be excused?

Dr. Singh. So, is crime caused by ignorance?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. That is the cause: my ignorance.

Student. It would certainly be stupid to say that a beautiful instrument like a violin was made by chance.

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. It is most regrettable that such a rascal can get recognition. He is talking foolishness and getting recognition.
We are not these temporary material bodies.
We are eternal spirit souls, part and parcel of the Supreme Spirit Soul (Krishna)
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare. / Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare

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Old 11-06-2008, 12:49 AM   #16
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Thanks Pilgrim for this very interesting dialogue !!
I would like to be a half god in my next incarnation. But I believe that it is my old ego which awoke !
Nevertheless that must be shitting to regress towards a species like the mosquito for example.
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Old 25-06-2008, 01:23 AM   #17
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Default Life Comes From Life (part 10)

The Scientists' Mistake

Srila Prabhupada. The scientists' mistake is that they are ignorant of the two energies--material and spiritual. They say that everything is material and that everything emanates from matter. The defect in their theories is that they begin from matter instead of spirit. Since matter comes from spirit, in a sense everything is spiritual. Spiritual energy is the source and can exist without the material energy. But the material energy has no existence without the spiritual energy. It is correct to say that darkness begins from light, not that light begins from darkness. Scientists think that consciousness comes from matter. Actually, consciousness always exists, but when it is covered or degraded by ignorance, it is a form of unconsciousness.
So "material" means forgetfulness of Krsna, and "spiritual" means full consciousness of Krsna. Is this clear? Try to understand: darkness comes from light. When no light is visible, then we are in darkness. Clouds are not to be found in the sun; that would be against the nature of the sun. But by the energy of the sun other things are temporarily created, such as mist, clouds or darkness. These creations are temporary, but the sun remains. Similarly, material nature is temporary, but spiritual nature is permanent. Krsna consciousness means getting out of this temporary nature and attaining a permanent, spiritual nature. No one actually wants this temporary nature; no one likes this cloudy atmosphere.

Dr. Singh. is this cloudy consciousness created from spiritual energy?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes.

Dr. Singh. And matter is also created from the superior energy?

Srila Prabhupada. Aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam pravartate. Krsna says, "I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me." (Bg. 8.10) Krsna is the creator of everything, bad or good. Actually, "bad and good" is a material creation. Krsna's creation is good; God is good. What you think is bad is good for God. Therefore, we cannot understand Krsna. He is doing something that in our consideration may be bad, but for Him there is no such thing as good or bad. For example, Krsna married sixteen thousand wives. Some people may criticize, "Ah, He is so mad after women." But they do not see the whole picture. Krsna's power is so great that He expanded Himself into sixteen thousand different husbands.

"Everything Is One" Is Nonsense

Dr. Singh. You said this mist of material nature is temporary. But why should we bother to disentangle ourselves from something transitory?

Srila Prabhupada. Why do you put coverings on your body? You may walk naked. The weather will clear in a few hours. Why do you cover yourself?

Dr. Singh. The danger is now.

Srila Prabhupada. Whenever it may be, why do you take this step of covering your body?

Dr. Singh. To avoid discomfort.

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. Otherwise you would be uncomfortable. Not to bother to dress is the Mayavada theory: "Everything will come automatically, so why bother? Everything is one." That is a nonsensical theory. The Mayavada philosophy is that God is one and that every thing and every living being is equal to God.

We have no quarrel with the chemists if they begin from life, but unfortunately they say that everything begins from darkness--dead matter. That is what we object to. We say, "Begin from life," and they say, "No, begin from matter--darkness." The reason they are in darkness is simple: if one goes from darkness to light, he thinks that darkness is the beginning. Suppose you have been in darkness all your life, and now you suddenly come into the light. You will think, "Oh, light has come from darkness." Actually, darkness occurs when light becomes dim. Darkness does not produce light.

Dr. Singh. Then darkness is dependent on light?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. Or in other words, in the light there is no darkness. When the light is dim--then we experience darkness. Similarly, when our spiritual consciousness, or Krsna consciousness, is dim, our consciousness is material. In the morning we awaken, and at the end of the day we become tired and go to sleep. When life is somehow or other interrupted, we sleep. We sleep at night, and when we get up in the morning we understand that our wakefulness, or "life," has not come into existence from the sleepy condition. I was alive even while I slept, and on awakening I am still alive. This should be clearly understood. A baby comes from the womb of his mother. He thinks that his life has begun from the day he comes out of the womb. But that is not a fact. Actually, he is eternal. He constructed his material body within the womb of his mother while he was unconscious, and as soon as his bodily features were sufficiently developed, he came out of the womb and again to consciousness.

Dr. Singh. And he again falls asleep at death.

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. That is described in Bhagavad-gita (8.19):

bhuta-gramah sa evayam
bhutva bhutva praliyate
ratry-agame 'vasah partha
prabhavaty ahar-agame

"Again and again the day comes, and this host of beings is active, and again night falls, O Partha, and they are helplessly dissolved."

We Are Not These Bodies

Srila Prabhupada. Do you see this flower? It has come back to consciousness, and soon it will dry up and die. This is material life. But spiritual life means to flower only--no dissolution. That is the difference between matter and spirit. I have achieved this body according to my consciousness in my last life. And I will receive my next body according to my consciousness in this life. This is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita (8.6):

yam yam vapi smaran bhavam
tyajaty ante kalevaram
tam tam evaiti kaunteya
sada tad-bhava-bhavitah

"Whatever state of being one remembers when he quits his body, that state he will attain without fail."

Dr. Singh. Srila Prabhupada, if our next body is always achieved by our consciousness in this life, how is it that I cannot remember my previous life?

Srila Prabhupada. Do you remember everything you did last year, or even yesterday?

Dr. Singh. No, I don't.

Srila Prabhupada. That is your nature: you forget.

Dr. Singh. Some things.

Srila Prabhupada. And somebody forgets more than others. But we all forget.

Dr. Singh. Is that a principle of material nature?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. It is something like stealing. Somebody is a pickpocket and somebody is a bank robber, but both of them are stealing.

Dr. Singh. When we dream, are we being carried away by the subtle elements?

Srila Prabhupada. You are being carried away by nature. Krsna says in Bhagavad-gita (3.27):

prakrteh kriyamanani
gunaih karmani sarvasah
kartaham iti manyate

"The bewildered spirit soul, under the influence of the three modes of material nature, thinks himself to be the doer of activities that are in actuality carried out by nature." We forget our real identity because we are under the grip of material nature. The first lesson in spiritual life is that we are not these bodies, but eternal spirit souls. Once you were a child. Now you are a grown man. Where is your childhood body? That body does not exist, but you still exist because you are eternal. The circumstantial body has changed, but you have not changed. This is the proof of eternality. You remember that you did certain things yesterday and certain things today, but you forget other things. Your body of yesterday is not today's body. Do you admit it or not? You cannot say that today is the thirteenth of May, 1973. You cannot say that today is yesterday. The thirteenth was yesterday. The day has changed. But you remember yesterday; and that remembrance is evidence of your eternality. The body has changed, but you remember it; therefore you are eternal, although the body is temporary. This proof is very simple. Even a child can understand it. Is it difficult to understand?

Changing Bodies

Dr. Singh. People want more proof.

Srila Prabhupada. What more is required? The eternality of the soul is a simple fact. I am an eternal soul. My body is changing, but I am not changing. For example, I am now an old man. Sometimes I think, "Oh, I used to jump and play, but now I cannot jump because my body has changed." I want to jump, but I cannot do it. That jumping propensity is eternal, but because of my old body I cannot do it.

Dr. Singh. Opponents will say that according to their observation, the nature of consciousness is that it lasts for only one body.

Srila Prabhupada. That is foolishness. In Bhagavad-gita (2.13) Krsna explains:

dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati

"As the embodied soul continually passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change." Just as this body is always changing (as I can see in my daily experience), there is a similar change at the time of death.

Dr. Singh. But according to the scientists, we cannot actually observe this last change.

Srila Prabhupada. Their eyes are so imperfect that they cannot observe many, many things. Their ignorance does not make the Bhagavad-gita unscientific. Why don't the scientists admit the imperfection of their senses? They must first admit the imperfection of their senses. Their seeing power does not determine what is and what is not science. Dogs cannot understand the laws of nature. Does that mean the laws of nature don't exist?

Dr. Singh. Well, the scientists admit that argument, but they say the way to become perfect is through objective information and experience.

Srila Prabhupada. No. That is not the way to become perfect. No one can become perfect through imperfect thinking, and our thinking must be imperfect because our senses and minds are imperfect.

Dr. Singh. Srila Prabhupada, another question can be raised. is it not possible that the soul may accept three, four or five bodies and then die?

Srila Prabhupada. You are accepting millions of bodies. I say that your body of yesterday is not your body of today. So, if you live for one hundred years, how many times have you changed bodies? Just calculate.

Dr. Singh. Thirteen.

Srila Prabhupada. Why thirteen?

Dr. Singh. Medical science says that all the bodily cells are replaced every seven years.

Srila Prabhupada. No, not every seven years--every second. Every second, the blood corpuscles are changing. Is it not so?

Dr. Singh. Yes.

Srila Prabhupada. And as soon as the blood corpuscles change, you change your body.

Dr. Singh. In scientific terminology, can the eternality of the soul be compared to conservation of energy?

Srila Prabhupada. There is no question of the conservation of energy, because energy is always existing.

Dr. Singh. But according to scientific terminology, the law of conservation of energy is that energy cannot be created or destroyed, which means, I think, that it is eternal.

Srila Prabhupada. Oh, yes, that we admit. Krsna is eternal; therefore all His energies are eternal.

Dr. Singh. Is that why the living entity is also eternal?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. If the sun is eternal, its energies--heat and light--are also eternal.

Dr. Singh. Does it follow from this, then, that life cannot be created or destroyed?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. Life is eternal. It is not created or destroyed. It is only temporarily covered. I am eternal, but last night I was covered by sleep, so I think in terms of yesterday and today. This is the condition of the material world.

Everything Is Spiritual

Dr. Singh. Is material consciousness the absence of Krsna consciousness?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes.

Dr. Singh. And when there is Krsna consciousness, where is material nature?

Srila Prabhupada. If you continue in Krsna consciousness, you will see that nothing is material. When you offer a flower to Krsna, it is not material. Krsna will not accept anything material. And this does not mean that the flower is material on the bush, and then it becomes spiritual when you offer it to Krsna. No. The flower is "material" only as long as you think that it is made for your enjoyment. But as soon as you see that it is for Krsna's enjoyment, you see it as it really is--spiritual.

Dr. Singh. So the entire world is actually spiritual?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. Therefore, we want to engage everything in Krsna's service; that is the spiritual world.

Dr. Singh. Can we also appreciate Krsna's creation in that light? For example, can we think, "This tree is very beautiful because it is Krsna's property"?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. That is Krsna consciousness.

Dr. Singh. If someone looks at the Deity of Krsna in the temple and thinks that it is only stone or wood, what does that mean?

Srila Prabhupada. He is ignorant of the facts. How can the Deity be material? Stone is also Krsna's energy. Just as electric energy is everywhere but only the electricians know how to utilize it, so Krsna is everywhere--even in stone--but only His devotees know how to utilize stone to appreciate Krsna. The devotees know that stone cannot exist outside of Krsna. Therefore, when the devotees see the Deity, they say, "Here is Krsna." They see the real oneness of Krsna and His energy.

Simultaneously One and Different

Dr. Singh. Is it true that Krsna conscious persons perceive Krsna in a plain stone as much as in the Deity carved from stone?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes.

Dr. Singh. Just as much?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. Why not? In the Bhagavad-gita (9.4) Krsna says:

maya tatam idam sarvam
jagad avyakta-murtina
mat-sthani sarva-bhutani
na caham tesv avasthitah

This means that Krsna's energy--that is, Krsna in His partially manifested form--pervades every atom of the universe. But His fully manifested personal form is present in the Deity shaped according to His directions. This is the philosophy of acintya-bhedabheda-tattva, the simultaneous oneness and difference of God and His energies. For example, when the sunshine is in your room, that does not mean the sun itself is in your room. The sun and its separated energies, like heat and light, are one in quality, but different in quantity.

Dr. Singh. But still, you say that one can see Krsna in ordinary stone?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes, why not? We see the stone as Krsna's energy.

Dr. Singh. But can we worship Him within the stone?

Srila Prabhupada. We can worship Him through His energy in the stone. But we cannot worship the stone as Krsna. We cannot worship this bench as Krsna. But we can worship everything because we see everything as Krsna's energy. This tree is worshipable because both Krsna and His energy are worshipable, but this does not mean we worship the tree in the same way as we worship the Deity of Krsna in the temple.

In my childhood I was taught by my parents never to waste Krsna's energy. They taught me that if even a small grain of rice was stuck between the floorboards, I should pick it up, touch it to my forehead and eat it to save it from being wasted. I was taught how to see everything in relation to Krsna. That is Krsna consciousness. We therefore do not like to see anything wasted or misused. We are teaching our disciples how to use everything for Krsna and how to understand that everything is Krsna. As Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita (6.30):

yo mam pasyati sarvatra
sarvam ca mayi pasyati
tasyaham na pranasyami
sa ca me na pranasyati

"For one who sees Me everywhere and sees everything in Me, I am never lost, nor is he ever lost to Me."
We are not these temporary material bodies.
We are eternal spirit souls, part and parcel of the Supreme Spirit Soul (Krishna)
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare. / Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare

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Old 17-08-2008, 09:05 PM   #18
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Default Life Comes From Life (part 11)

Detecting the Spirit Soul

Dr. Singh. Scientists find it very hard to see the spirit soul. They say its existence is very doubtful.

Srila Prabhupada. How can they see it? It is too small to see. Who has that seeing power?

Dr. Singh. Still, they want to sense it by some means.

Srila Prabhupada. if you inject someone with just one hundredth of a grain of very venomous poison, he dies immediately. No one can see the poison or how it acts, but it is acting nevertheless. So why don't the scientists see the soul by its action? In such cases we have to see by the effect. The Vedas say that because of the minute particle called the soul, the whole body is working nicely. If I pinch myself, I immediately feel it because I am conscious throughout the whole of my skin. But as soon as the soul is out of my body, which is the case when my body dies, you can take the same skin and cut and chop it, and nobody will protest. Why is this simple thing so hard to understand? Is this not detecting spirit?

Dr. Singh. We may detect the soul in this way, but what about God?

Srila Prabhupada. First of all let us understand the soul. The soul is a sample God. If you can understand the sample, then you can understand the whole.

Modern Science: Help or Harm?

Dr. Singh. Scientists are in the process of trying to create life.

Srila Prabhupada. "Process of"! "Trying to"! That we kick out; that we do not accept. A beggar is saying, "I am trying to be a millionaire." We say, "When you become a millionaire, then talk. Now you are a poor beggar; that is all." The scientists say they are trying, but suppose I ask you, "What are you?" Will you say, "I am trying to be..."? What are you now? That is the question. "We are trying" is not a proper answer, what to speak of a scientific proposition.

Dr. Singh. Well, although they haven't been able to create life so far, they say that soon they should be able to do so.

Srila Prabhupada. Any rascal may say that. If you say, "In the future I shall be able to do something extraordinary," why should I trust or believe you?

Dr. Singh. Well, the scientists say they have done so much in the past and they will accomplish more in the future.

Srila Prabhupada. In the past there was death, and people are dying now. So what have the scientists done?

Dr. Singh. Helped them.

Srila Prabhupada. Scientists have helped to minimize the duration of life! Formerly men lived one hundred years; now they seldom live more than sixty or seventy years. And the scientists have discovered atomic energy; now they can kill millions of men. So they have helped only in dying. They have not helped in living, and still they dare to declare that they will create.

Dr. Singh. But now we have airplanes and--

Srila Prabhupada. The scientists cannot stop death, they cannot stop birth, they cannot stop disease, and they cannot stop old age. So what have they done? Formerly people used to become old, and nowadays they are becoming old. Formerly people used to become diseased, and now they are becoming diseased. Now there is more medicine--and more disease. So what have they accomplished? Scientists have not helped improve the order of the world. We are going to challenge all the rascal scientists who say that life has grown out of matter. The fact is that matter has grown from life.

The Illusion of Progress

Srila Prabhupada. How long can science cheat people? One hundred years, two hundred years? They cannot cheat them for all time.

Dr. Singh. Cheating has been going on since time immemorial, so perhaps they think they can continue forever.

Srila Prabhupada. Not since time immemorial! Science has been cheating people for only the past two or three hundred years, not before that.

Dr. Singh. Oh, really?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes, for the last two hundred years they have been preaching that life comes from matter--not for thousands of years. And the cheating will be finished in another fifty years.

Dr. Singh. Yes, now there is a so-called anti-intellectual movement. People are rebelling against science and modern progress.

Srila Prabhupada. And what is that science? It is not science! It is ignorance. Ignorance is passing for science, and irreligion is passing for religion. But this cheating cannot go on for long, because some people are becoming intelligent.

Dr. Singh. In Newsweek, one of the largest magazines in the United States, there was an article about the degradation of Christianity. The article included a cartoon picturing the devil causing earthquakes. There was recently a very large earthquake in South America that killed many thousands of people. The cartoon attributed such things to the devil, and right next to him it showed Richard Nixon presenting himself as a follower of Christ but bombing Southeast Asia. In this cartoon, the devil turned to Richard Nixon and said, "It's hell keeping up with Christians."

Srila Prabhupada. Yes, people will criticize in that way. People are becoming advanced. How long can they be cheated by so-called science and so-called religion? If Mr. Nixon loves his countrymen, why does he not love his country's cows? They are also born in the same land, and they have the same right to live. Why are they killed? "Thou shalt not kill." But the animals are being killed. That is imperfection. Krsna embraces both the cows and Radharani.[18] That is perfection. Krsna even talks with the birds. One day on the bank of the Yamuna River, He was talking with a bird, because He speaks even in the languages of the birds. An old lady saw this and was struck with wonder: "Oh, He is talking with a bird!"

Dr. Singh. You mean He was actually talking the way the birds talk?

Srila Prabhupada. Yes. One of Krsna's qualities described in the Vedas is that He can speak any language. He is the father of all living beings, and the father can understand the language of his children.

Krsna is the supreme enjoyer. Actually, except for those who are Krsna conscious, no one can have any real knowledge, nor can anyone enjoy. One simply suffers, but he thinks the suffering is enjoyment. This is called maya, or illusion. In America people work hard day and night, and they think, "I am enjoying." This is maya. A conditioned soul cannot enjoy anything; he simply suffers, but he thinks he is enjoying.

Therefore, in Srimad-Bhagavatam the conditioned soul is likened to the camel. The camel is very fond of eating thorny twigs that cut his tongue. While he is eating them, blood issues from his tongue and mixes with the thorny twigs. They become a little tasty, and he is thinking, "Oh, these twigs are very nice." That is called maya. Maya means "that which is not." Ma means "not," and ya means "this." So maya means "not this." That is the explanation of maya, or illusion. The scientists are in maya because they think they are improving things and becoming happy. But this world, along with everything in it, will eventually be finished because it is maya; it is not what we think it is. As Srimad-Bhagavatam explains, the materialists are thinking they are becoming victorious, but they are actually being defeated.
We are not these temporary material bodies.
We are eternal spirit souls, part and parcel of the Supreme Spirit Soul (Krishna)
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare. / Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare

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