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Old 29-12-2010, 12:56 AM   #41
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why is most of the gear sold as survival gear ex army ?
Why dont explorers and mountaineers etc use army surplus ?
Why do survivalists think dressing head to foot in camo isnt drawing attention to themselves ?
Why do you think a
£35. Survival tent is better than a 4 season tent costing £150. With a lifetime warranty ?

I suppose what im getting at is the comical aspect of whats labbled survival gear and clever marketing of army surplus crap and cheap low level camping gear ,
Dont be fooled .
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Old 29-01-2011, 09:29 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by sannox View Post
why is most of the gear sold as survival gear ex army ?
Why dont explorers and mountaineers etc use army surplus ?
Why do survivalists think dressing head to foot in camo isnt drawing attention to themselves ?
Why do you think a
£35. Survival tent is better than a 4 season tent costing £150. With a lifetime warranty ?

I suppose what im getting at is the comical aspect of whats labbled survival gear and clever marketing of army surplus crap and cheap low level camping gear ,
Dont be fooled .
To add a comment supporting your view I would draw peoples attention to the fact that soldiers in the British Army serving in Afghanistan ALL buy kit beyond standard issue. Some of the top items include;

Socks
Boots
Head torches
Base layers
Food stuffs
Knives

BSF use virtually nothing on the standard MOD equipment list so there's a major clue there for you
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Old 25-02-2011, 12:33 AM   #43
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Old 27-02-2011, 06:59 PM   #44
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To add a comment supporting your view I would draw peoples attention to the fact that soldiers in the British Army serving in Afghanistan ALL buy kit beyond standard issue. Some of the top items include;

Socks
Boots
Head torches
Base layers
Food stuffs
Knives

BSF use virtually nothing on the standard MOD equipment list so there's a major clue there for you
i know its insane ,
during the falklands campaign a mate of mine borrowed a ultimate s bag after comparing his standard issue with my 3 season bag now that outdated crap is selling online and in stores as survival s bags

if this gears cheap by all means use it to explore the outdoors but dont think ex army = immortality
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Old 27-02-2011, 07:03 PM   #45
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Default after the sthtf what ?

what sort of plans are in place ,what are the expectations what will you personally strive for ?

will you stay hidden will you return to society to pick up were you left off ?
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Old 27-02-2011, 11:57 PM   #46
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i know its insane ,
during the falklands campaign a mate of mine borrowed a ultimate s bag after comparing his standard issue with my 3 season bag now that outdated crap is selling online and in stores as survival s bags

if this gears cheap by all means use it to explore the outdoors but dont think ex army = immortality
Nobody's saying it is

The old mark 1 was lovely and snug, if a bit bulky. The mark 2 maggot was a toaster for sure, no idea how many seasons it is or whatever but it was great. Still, my civvie version is warm enough and about half the size, so no contest
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Old 05-03-2011, 12:25 AM   #47
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Nobody's saying it is

The old mark 1 was lovely and snug, if a bit bulky. The mark 2 maggot was a toaster for sure, no idea how many seasons it is or whatever but it was great. Still, my civvie version is warm enough and about half the size, so no contest
the mk2 was heavy and big , it would be the size of two modern bags and was the bag my ultimate beat (wasnt it a two part afair bivvy bag ?)

if a product has survival stuck to it it implies a degree of performance that ensures life to many people .
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Old 05-03-2011, 12:47 PM   #48
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the mk2 was heavy and big , it would be the size of two modern bags and was the bag my ultimate beat (wasnt it a two part afair bivvy bag ?)

if a product has survival stuck to it it implies a degree of performance that ensures life to many people .
Yes what was the name for it again...'stuff sack' if I remember right? New technology back in those days You could get it tied down quite tight so it was about, just over half or about 2/3 the bulk of the mk 1 but it would still be about twice as heavy as a civvy job. Must admit though it is warmer than my civvy sack.

But yes you're point is right, surplus stores etc. will market old mk1s as 'survival gear' but it definitely wouldn't be the first choice if you had to head fer dem hills at short notice.
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Old 05-03-2011, 01:55 PM   #49
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Yes what was the name for it again...'stuff sack' if I remember right? New technology back in those days You could get it tied down quite tight so it was about, just over half or about 2/3 the bulk of the mk 1 but it would still be about twice as heavy as a civvy job. Must admit though it is warmer than my civvy sack.

But yes you're point is right, surplus stores etc. will market old mk1s as 'survival gear' but it definitely wouldn't be the first choice if you had to head fer dem hills at short notice.
i think army surplus is a great way to get outdoors , its doesnt need the tag survival gear and the few quid it seems to add ?
the more experienced you get with outdoor sports the better gear you acquire
its progress ,
i think its possible to give people a headstart when selecting equipment and save them discomfort that inadequate equipment creates and sometimes its puts people off because just remember being exhausted hungry and wet etc ,
when thats a thing of the past with modern gear .

i wouldnt tell anyone to stay indoors because their gear was substandard
but my bugbear is labbeling gear survival when as far as im aware no such equipment really exists its practically an advertising slogan imo .
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Old 05-03-2011, 02:39 PM   #50
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i wouldnt tell anyone to stay indoors because their gear was substandard
but my bugbear is labbeling gear survival when as far as im aware no such equipment really exists its practically an advertising slogan imo .
Not quite sure what you mean by saying no such equipment exists, I mean some things are made for simply going outdoors whilst others are made for emergency situations because they will make the difference between life and death, hence they are known as survival kit.

Example, the 'survival sack'. It could be anything from simple bright-coloured polythene, sort of like a super-strength bin-bag, to the 'space suite' foil sack. Or the flint-metal firestarter; you wouldn't use these in 'normal' outdoor trips where you have a sleeping bag and hexi / gas stove, they are emergency gear which will increase your chances of survival if things go wrong.

So there is a market out there for survival gear, but it might be confused with other stuff which isn't emergency gear.
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Old 09-03-2011, 09:31 PM   #51
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Not quite sure what you mean by saying no such equipment exists, I mean some things are made for simply going outdoors whilst others are made for emergency situations because they will make the difference between life and death, hence they are known as survival kit.

Example, the 'survival sack'. It could be anything from simple bright-coloured polythene, sort of like a super-strength bin-bag, to the 'space suite' foil sack. Or the flint-metal firestarter; you wouldn't use these in 'normal' outdoor trips where you have a sleeping bag and hexi / gas stove, they are emergency gear which will increase your chances of survival if things go wrong.

So there is a market out there for survival gear, but it might be confused with other stuff which isn't emergency gear.
survival sacks are emergency shelters ,
you could take anything from an outdoor store and stick survival before its name and create survival gear its a marketing scam ,
survival tools = multi tools of old
survival tins = they are a real enigma , lofty wiseman introduced the us to an sas trick of carrying loads of stuff for trapping fishing firelighting etc in a tin and some sold these tins under the name .........

tents bivouacs rucksacks knifes jackets sleping bags pots stoves the lot
all could be named survival items having survived nothing
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Old 09-03-2011, 09:35 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by sannox View Post
survival sacks are emergency shelters ,
you could take anything from an outdoor store and stick survival before its name and create survival gear its a marketing scam ,
survival tools = multi tools of old
survival tins = they are a real enigma , lofty wiseman introduced the us to an sas trick of carrying loads of stuff for trapping fishing firelighting etc in a tin and some sold these tins under the name .........

tents bivouacs rucksacks knifes jackets sleping bags pots stoves the lot
all could be named survival items having survived nothing
Yeah those survival tins...would you need to use those if you're out there with a nice load of food for your trip and the cooker to go with it?

Same for the survival sack..it's for when things go wrong, hence emergency gear hence survival.

Difference between survival kit and normal kit is you only use it when TSHTF

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Old 10-03-2011, 07:43 PM   #53
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Yeah those survival tins...would you need to use those if you're out there with a nice load of food for your trip and the cooker to go with it?

Same for the survival sack..it's for when things go wrong, hence emergency gear hence survival.

Difference between survival kit and normal kit is you only use it when TSHTF

you turn to your emergency gear if your standard fails and if your emergency gear worked you can call it the gear that helped you survive or your survival gear for short .

you can then label that gear survival gear and sell it own describing how you survived using it .

Last edited by sannox; 10-03-2011 at 07:44 PM.
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Old 11-04-2011, 06:54 PM   #54
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Its all about learning what to use and how , and if you dont have anything one must be able to compromise .
History has shown us that if humanity does not prepare for the next year , people die of starvation .
early hunters prepped , so did the village folk .
Dawins theory , adapt or die .
if we do not learn how to adapt , we can not adapt .

unfortunately it is a lesson of reality that should we not , we can pay the price .

Its never FOOL PROOF

BUT IT IS

PROOF THAT YOU ARE NOT A FOOL .


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Old 13-04-2011, 08:03 PM   #55
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Its all about learning what to use and how , and if you dont have anything one must be able to compromise .
History has shown us that if humanity does not prepare for the next year , people die of starvation .
early hunters prepped , so did the village folk .
Dawins theory , adapt or die .
if we do not learn how to adapt , we can not adapt .

unfortunately it is a lesson of reality that should we not , we can pay the price .

Its never FOOL PROOF

BUT IT IS

PROOF THAT YOU ARE NOT A FOOL .

Never truer words spoken, practice makes perfect.

Now is the time of year to lean how to adapt and have fun doing it.

My top ten for this years courses.

First is how to make a bow and arrows and string from out of the wild.

Second is finding natural cures for common ailments using the culpepper guide.

Third is making bronze tools and making a charcoal furness for melting copper and other ores.

Fourth is making eel and other fish traps for both bait and main species, night lines, underwater traps.

Fifth is how to build a mini stove from recycled tin cans and old nuts and bolts.

Sixth is how to catch live game and train your dog to catch them and domesticate what you capture.

Seventh is learning how to use nature as your early warning signs in a defensive situation.

Eight is learning how to make emergency footware and clothing from the wild and tanning of the materials.

Nine is making traps and using live bait from imprinted wildlife.

Tenth is learning how to make the system work for you and not the other way around.
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Old 13-04-2011, 08:24 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by sannox View Post
survival sacks are emergency shelters ,
you could take anything from an outdoor store and stick survival before its name and create survival gear its a marketing scam ,
survival tools = multi tools of old
survival tins = they are a real enigma , lofty wiseman introduced the us to an sas trick of carrying loads of stuff for trapping fishing firelighting etc in a tin and some sold these tins under the name .........

tents bivouacs rucksacks knifes jackets sleping bags pots stoves the lot
all could be named survival items having survived nothing
Lofty's baccy survival tin is a sure way to loose everything at the same time, ypur much better keeping all ypur gear on your person in many different places so you loose as little as possible in a bug out situation.

The very best survival kit is you and your pwn hand to eye coordinations/skills, not a book by lofty in your pocket saying so.

Learn to find, capture, prepare your food doing the 12 day rule using only 500 calories per day, if you can do this you will stand a better chance at surviving.
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Old 20-04-2011, 11:49 PM   #57
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Does anyone have a good list of 2012 survival communities? Or know of a good place to check? I have been searching around and found a couple good groups on http://face2012.net. But I am trying to find groups in the US, and having trouble. I don't have the resources or knowledge and time to do something myself. My only hope is to get together with others. Any help would be greatly appreciated, or links to other threads on this forum. Thanks
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Old 06-05-2011, 09:13 PM   #58
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Lofty's baccy survival tin is a sure way to loose everything at the same time, ypur much better keeping all ypur gear on your person in many different places so you loose as little as possible in a bug out situation.

The very best survival kit is you and your pwn hand to eye coordinations/skills, not a book by lofty in your pocket saying so.

Learn to find, capture, prepare your food doing the 12 day rule using only 500 calories per day, if you can do this you will stand a better chance at surviving.
500 cal a day isnt much your going to be very lethargic .
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Old 06-05-2011, 09:14 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by tracker View Post
Its all about learning what to use and how , and if you dont have anything one must be able to compromise .
History has shown us that if humanity does not prepare for the next year , people die of starvation .
early hunters prepped , so did the village folk .
Dawins theory , adapt or die .
if we do not learn how to adapt , we can not adapt .

unfortunately it is a lesson of reality that should we not , we can pay the price .

Its never FOOL PROOF

BUT IT IS

PROOF THAT YOU ARE NOT A FOOL .

got to plan ahead , if you dont you wont get by its simple
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Old 06-05-2011, 09:32 PM   #60
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500 cal a day isnt much your going to be very lethargic .
You are indeed, try a rabbit which is almost pure protein and not much fat, birds eggs again protein and a little fat.

The 500 is pretty difficult to find even at the best time of year.

The way you see BG burning off the energy is amazing and a sure way to die if your on your own and lost in a strange unknown habitat.

Injury and traumatic shock due to fluid loss is the biggest killer, survival is down to knowledge not tools and tins full of things that you might never use.

The 12 day rule makes one think about what your going to do, choose your plan of action carefully before the off because your likely to head downwards from that momemt onwards.

You might get lucky, you might not, and again heat is half meat
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