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Old 01-01-2010, 01:41 AM   #1
old major
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Default Is David an anarchist?

Read most of his books but I can't figure out if he believes in having any form of government or not. Anybody here know his view on the matter?
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Old 01-01-2010, 02:27 AM   #2
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he's never spoken specifically on his political ideals.. But from an observational standpoint, it's clear that he definitely leans a bit towards what society calls the 'left', and is certainly towards the libertarian (not the political party) end of the spectrum..

I would guess that he would prefer a form of anarchy in an ideal world, assuming society as a whole evolved mentally and spiritually to the point where we could handle such a responsibility.
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Old 01-01-2010, 09:54 PM   #3
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I heard he was in favour of the reformation of capitalism,but I dont really know.
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Old 01-01-2010, 10:45 PM   #4
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I heard he was in favour of the reformation of capitalism,but I dont really know.
Really? Like hardcore Ayn Rand style capitalism?
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Old 02-01-2010, 06:00 AM   #5
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Read most of his books but I can't figure out if he believes in having any form of government or not. Anybody here know his view on the matter?
Good question!
Perhaps there's no existing term for what he's envisioning? Or he's an anarchist but he doesn't want to use labels?
I want to know...
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Old 02-01-2010, 06:04 AM   #6
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Good question!
Perhaps there's no existing term for what he's envisioning? Or he's an anarchist but he doesn't want to use labels?
I want to know...
I thought he was an anarchist, but then I thought I heard him say something about needing the police, which is something no anarchist would say.

Does he post here?
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:04 AM   #7
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I heard he was in favour of the reformation of capitalism,but I dont really know.
he supports free market capitalism only in the sense that it's better than dirty capitalism in a plutocratic government, ie the system we have now.

ie.. he's opposed to private central banks, opposed to fiat money, opposed to excess printing of money, manipulated inflation, etc..

I'm the same way, and would tolerate reformed capitalism & a revert back to a democratic-[constitutional]-republic, but that doesn't necessarily make me a supporter of Capitalism.

I believe Icke has also said that ideally, money shouldn't even exist. He's definitely not a Capitalist.

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Old 02-01-2010, 12:25 PM   #8
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I've attended most Anarchist bookfairs in London since the early 1990s, and was one of the editors of the best selling UK Anarchist publication - Class War.

The UK Anarchist movement is pretty broad, but no it is not broad enough to include someone like David Icke.
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Old 02-01-2010, 03:36 PM   #9
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Read most of his books but I can't figure out if he believes in having any form of government or not. Anybody here know his view on the matter?
Anarchism, Libertarianism and pure Capitalism at their core are ideals designed to give the maximum freedom to everyone.

I'm no expert on Icke but I think politically this is the direction he would like society to take.

But it is worth pointing out that people like Icke exist intellectually in a place high above politics and policing. A man like Icke has no desire to harm or defraud and requires no policing or political representitive. All he wants is the saddly unrealistic goal of helping others attain the level of understanding he has got.

I'm sure with regards to the police, Icke like most people has no problem with a police force made up of the people it is policing, to protect individuals from those who wish to cause them harm or deprivation of property.

Although, its worth pointing out that, whilst he is 'against' fiat currencies and banks, he still charges money to see him speak and he puts that money in banks. I'll have more belief in him when he accepts goods and services in lue of money and places them in the perfect society he himself has built, as opposed to the one everyone else is supposed to build for him.
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Old 02-01-2010, 04:14 PM   #10
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I've attended most Anarchist bookfairs in London since the early 1990s, and was one of the editors of the best selling UK Anarchist publication - Class War.

The UK Anarchist movement is pretty broad, but no it is not broad enough to include someone like David Icke.
Interesting, I have one Class War pamphlet. Wish I could find some of those old papers you folks put out, they are hard to find in Canada though.
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Old 02-01-2010, 04:39 PM   #11
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Old Major: There is some stuff on-line:

http://www.londonclasswar.org/downloads.php

What really needs to be done is to scan in each issue. A bit of the old CW stuff can be viewed here:

http://bashtherichfilm.wordpress.com/

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Old 02-01-2010, 04:45 PM   #12
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Old Major: There is some stuff on-line:

http://www.londonclasswar.org/downloads.php

What really needs to be done is to scan in each issue. A bit of the old CW stuff can be viewed here:

http://bashtherichfilm.wordpress.com/
Thanks, wish I had lived in the UK when you guys were going. Alot of anarchist writing is over intellectualized in my opinion, CW had the right approach.
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:02 PM   #13
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Class War is communism dressed up as anarchy.

How dare anybody presuppose my class, or decide that by accident of birth one class (the poor one obviously) is superior to another, and is by default the true class of anarchy.

Anarchy is for all and is about the equal chance for all to be wealthy, not the equal sharing of poverty that communism promises.
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Old 02-01-2010, 09:33 PM   #14
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How dare anybody presuppose my class, or decide that by accident of birth one class (the poor one obviously) is superior to another, and is by default the true class of anarchy.
It is not about your birth, but your relationship to the means of production. Some industrialists may well be self made men, born in the working class, but if they own the bulk of a billion dollar industry, they are on different sides to the mass of the people.
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Old 03-01-2010, 12:32 AM   #15
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It is not about your birth, but your relationship to the means of production. Some industrialists may well be self made men, born in the working class, but if they own the bulk of a billion dollar industry, they are on different sides to the mass of the people.
To the dustbin of history with the 'working class' and the 'mass' of the people. I am an individual. Just because I was born broke and have had proper jobs does not lump me in with any fucker. Nor does it give bone idle intelectuals the right to speak for me. I've spent many a long hour being shouted down by know it all communists playing at anarchy and the whole 'class' thing gives them away each time.

The term Class is a prison word. It is a dark spell cast to bind men in a victim mindset and an 'us vs them' mindset. It has no place in serious anarchic thought.
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Old 03-01-2010, 12:43 AM   #16
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To the dustbin of history with the 'working class' and the 'mass' of the people. I am an individual. Just because I was born broke and have had proper jobs does not lump me in with any fucker. Nor does it give bone idle intelectuals the right to speak for me. I've spent many a long hour being shouted down by know it all communists playing at anarchy and the whole 'class' thing gives them away each time.

The term Class is a prison word. It is a dark spell cast to bind men in a victim mindset and an 'us vs them' mindset. It has no place in serious anarchic thought.
I like this post. Can we not say race too is a prison word?

I gave up on the anarchist movement until I discovered the simple words of Ravachol -"anarchy is the obliteration of property"

Marx was a con who said similar things. Anarchists and Communists are mortal enemies. Do you agree?
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Old 03-01-2010, 01:55 AM   #17
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Class War is communism dressed up as anarchy.

How dare anybody presuppose my class, or decide that by accident of birth one class (the poor one obviously) is superior to another, and is by default the true class of anarchy.

Anarchy is for all and is about the equal chance for all to be wealthy, not the equal sharing of poverty that communism promises.
Communism is a useless word now, synonymous with despotism. Before we can eliminate the state we need to eradicate the very idea of private property, and no I don't mean your house, stereo, car and toothbrush.

Because some people insist on laying claim to more than they need, such as factories and large areas of landmass, and the rest of us poor bastards play along with this arbitrary rule - most of us end up poor or one of the rich man's slaves.

Ultimately neither anarchists or proper communists believe in class...it's the elite who believe in class. I would love to 'liberate' the elite of their 'wealth' and 'class'.
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Old 03-01-2010, 08:28 AM   #18
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Read most of his books but I can't figure out if he believes in having any form of government or not. Anybody here know his view on the matter?
When he talks of how government should be feeding the impoverished of the world, that is hardly anarchist, since it presupposes a global government that is taking from one and redistributing to another. Maybe that was a carry over from his Green Party (socialist) days, I don't know.

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he's never spoken specifically on his political ideals.. But from an observational standpoint, it's clear that he definitely leans a bit towards what society calls the 'left', and is certainly towards the libertarian (not the political party) end of the spectrum..
Here in the states libertarian is a conservative movement, or classical liberal, but not "left" by any means. Ron Paul and Peter Schiff, libertarians both, are hardly leftists. But I agree that Icke leans more toward the left as far as I can tell.
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Old 03-01-2010, 10:36 AM   #19
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Here in the states libertarian is a conservative movement, or classical liberal, but not "left" by any means. Ron Paul and Peter Schiff, libertarians both, are hardly leftists. But I agree that Icke leans more toward the left as far as I can tell.
Ron Paul is a Neo-Con, he is with the Republican party (party which Alex Jones also supported a few years ago). They are definitely not "lefties".

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Communism is a useless word now, synonymous with despotism. Before we can eliminate the state we need to eradicate the very idea of private property, and no I don't mean your house, stereo, car and toothbrush.

Because some people insist on laying claim to more than they need, such as factories and large areas of landmass, and the rest of us poor bastards play along with this arbitrary rule - most of us end up poor or one of the rich man's slaves.

Ultimately neither anarchists or proper communists believe in class...it's the elite who believe in class. I would love to 'liberate' the elite of their 'wealth' and 'class'.
Great post!

None of the countries that give a bad name to communism are actually communists; they are stuck in socialism (Stalinism actually). As Marx said, socialism is just the step between capitalism and communism, but not the final stage.

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Old 03-01-2010, 10:48 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by old major View Post
Communism is a useless word now, synonymous with despotism. Before we can eliminate the state we need to eradicate the very idea of private property, and no I don't mean your house, stereo, car and toothbrush.

Because some people insist on laying claim to more than they need, such as factories and large areas of landmass, and the rest of us poor bastards play along with this arbitrary rule - most of us end up poor or one of the rich man's slaves.

Ultimately neither anarchists or proper communists believe in class...it's the elite who believe in class. I would love to 'liberate' the elite of their 'wealth' and 'class'.
I plan on turning several acres of land over to food production. To do that I first need 'more land than I need' then I need people to work the land. The food I grow on that land then needs to make a profit.
I don't want to run it as a collective since I cannot guarantee that the others in my colllective will be smart enough to make good business descisions, so it will be run by myself and myself alone.
I will not exploit my work force and I will not rape the land.
But when it works I will make a lot more money than the workers.
If the workers on this land want to, there is nothing stopping them saving the money I pay them (which will be a lot) and starting their own businesses.
Eventually I would like to own so much food producing land that I am rich enough to start a serious company. Space mining or something. Something that requires vision and wealth to happen.

Under Classist, anti-wealth, anti-progress ideology my vision is considered evil and MUST BE STOPPED.
No one has the right to stop me. Those who try will die.
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