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Old 13-12-2016, 09:44 AM   #1
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Default Rules on the religion forum.

Hi zhiba

I do not wish to step on David's toes in any way.

Whilst I try to follow the teachings of Jesus I nevertheless always support a lot of David's research in my posts and I have openly condemned the deplorable state of Christendom on this forum for years.

I am so confused though as to what we can and can't post on here now?


For instance ...

I think the teaching of either going to Heaven or Hell is one of the most wrongful spiritual teachings that has ever shadowed this planet and has kept millions upon millions in abject fear.

I do not believe that a God of love would create such a thing as a Hell where people will get eternally punished.

As a Bible student I know this is a false teaching and so do millions of others these days .........and just like any other 'truther' I feel that I should tell as many people as I can about this.

I'm not sure how I can do this on here though zhiba without contravening those rules you have put up.

Please can you help me as to what we can and actually can't say on here?

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Old 13-12-2016, 09:59 AM   #2
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As a Bible student I know this is a false teaching and so do millions of others these days .........and just like any other 'truther' I feel that I should tell as many people as I can about this.
You need to separate between 'truther' and 'believer'.

A truther is interested in truth, and uses tools such as critical thinking, evidence, experience, intuition and so on to find the truth.

A believer thinks they have found the truth, and does not use the typical tools for finding truth, they believe it is true. Their evidence only lies in the opinion of their teacher, prophet, scriptures or priest.
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Old 13-12-2016, 10:09 AM   #3
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You need to separate between 'truther' and 'believer'.

A truther is interested in truth, and uses tools such as critical thinking, evidence, experience, intuition and so on to find the truth.

A believer thinks they have found the truth, and does not use the typical tools for finding truth, they believe it is true. Their evidence only lies in the opinion of their teacher, prophet, scriptures or priest.
Yes ...that's exactly what I am trying to do paddy blake

I know that the Bible does not teach Hell Fire ....I believe that to be a truth.


https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tool...ing-god-punish


https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=do...&client=safari



Whereas whether or not the Bible is the word of God .....that is my belief and I am well aware that I cannot prove that.

I find it fascinating to study what those Hebrew and Greek scriptures actually say as opposed to what has traditionally been taught.

I am also very interested in other's spiritual beliefs.

I could be wrong about my views though couldn't I
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Old 13-12-2016, 10:16 AM   #4
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Hi Chevron.

Firstly i would like to say the rules are not my rules. They were here in place when i joined and even though they have change a little over time those regarding religion remain the same.

i understand that it is a fine line between discussing and promoting.

I personally do not believe that the bible is the word of god, it is the word of men and as such has the bias of men inherant within it - as does every religious text, scripture and work.

All religion divides, and while there may be some worthwhile notes within the keystrokes, the overall aspect of most religions is to distance man from god and all that he is.

You touched upon the concepts of heaven and hell, and yes, i totally agree, these are just reward based and fear based idioms and the whole text is hinged on a savior based promise - that someone knows better than you and you must therore be worshipfull to them until such time they come along and save you.

Geta posted a video from David discussing his views of religion:

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Originally Posted by getagrip View Post
This is quite a good (10 minute) video from David explaining why he does not want religion / religious beliefs promoted on his forum.

i understand the fine line, it isn't my wish (or anyone else on the teams wish) to stiffle debate here, but we do need to have a very strict line on clear and obvious promotion of any religious doctrine.

It's the same with Masonry - we wouldn't want the site being over-run by free masons coming to the forum and promoting their lodge or their beliefs here.

There are plenty of religious forums where religion can be discussed, and i understand that some may feel the need to challenge what they percieve as others' wrong perceptions of their faith...

i personally don't have issue with religious folks but when those folks are posting reems and reems of religious texts, or posts that habitually refer to religious texts and teachings, then we do need to draw a line and say no to clear and obvious promotion.
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Old 13-12-2016, 10:28 AM   #5
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Yes ...that's exactly what I am trying to do paddy blake

I know that the Bible does not teach Hell Fire ....I believe that to be a truth.


https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tool...ing-god-punish


https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=do...&client=safari



Whereas whether or not the Bible is the word of God .....that is my belief and I am well aware that I cannot prove that.

I find it fascinating to study what those Hebrew and Greek scriptures actually say as opposed to what has traditionally been taught.

I am also very interested in other's spiritual beliefs.

I could be wrong about my views though couldn't I
Good luck on your journey
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Old 13-12-2016, 10:36 AM   #6
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I am so confused though as to what we can and can't post on here now?
You are understandably confused ... the directive makes no sense ...

Anyone who argues for a religion could be said to be promoting it ...

I think basically management doesn't want the religious people winning the argument (no chance with me here) ...or the forum overrun with such discussions ....

Just go for it chevron , no holds barred , if you step over the mark I'm sure you'll get a warning before anything drastic happens.
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Old 13-12-2016, 12:00 PM   #7
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Hi Chevron.

Firstly i would like to say the rules are not my rules. They were here in place when i joined and even though they have change a little over time those regarding religion remain the same.

i understand that it is a fine line between discussing and promoting.

I personally do not believe that the bible is the word of god, it is the word of men and as such has the bias of men inherant within it - as does every religious text, scripture and work.

All religion divides, and while there may be some worthwhile notes within the keystrokes, the overall aspect of most religions is to distance man from god and all that he is.

You touched upon the concepts of heaven and hell, and yes, i totally agree, these are just reward based and fear based idioms and the whole text is hinged on a savior based promise - that someone knows better than you and you must therore be worshipfull to them until such time they come along and save you.

Geta posted a video from David discussing his views of religion:



i understand the fine line, it isn't my wish (or anyone else on the teams wish) to stiffle debate here, but we do need to have a very strict line on clear and obvious promotion of any religious doctrine.

It's the same with Masonry - we wouldn't want the site being over-run by free masons coming to the forum and promoting their lodge or their beliefs here.

There are plenty of religious forums where religion can be discussed, and i understand that some may feel the need to challenge what they percieve as others' wrong perceptions of their faith...

i personally don't have issue with religious folks but when those folks are posting reems and reems of religious texts, or posts that habitually refer to religious texts and teachings, then we do need to draw a line and say no to clear and obvious promotion.
Hi Zhiba .....thanks for that

I totally appreciate where you are coming from and as someone that is overseeing the forum it must be difficult for you to ....errr ....

...contain us religious types

To be honest with you ......whilst I love Christianity ....the kind that Jesus taught though I might add .....I also cringe at folk that come through here or anywhere on the Net that start throwing loads of non understandable Biblical texts and terms everywhere especially in a condescending and aggressive tone and expecting everyone to be on the same page

I think these folk are doing religion more harm than good and it's the same with everything from what I can see ......these kinds reside within both atheism and religionism .....there are extremists and nutters running around on both sides inflating their own egos and using their beliefs as a barrier.

I see cults everywhere and lots of people that are incredibly egocentric in a way that they seemed to have missed the point completely.


I pray constantly that what I say is not something that is actually anti-Christ .......this is something I have to live with on my conscience daily.



It's so incredibly difficult to sift through the tangled web that has been woven.

In many ways my beliefs are similar to David's in that I think that there is an Archontic/Demonic force at work against us ....I also agree with his idea of God being a loving infinite consciousness ....even though he stays away from the words God etc

I don't blame him in a way though ....even the word God has come down to us in the 21st century especially, as something that now has terrible connotations attached to it.

I get that way myself ..... I sometimes prefer to call the God that I believe in as the 'creator' or 'source' because of this ....or one of my favourites is ...... Jah.


I get the sense that David doesn't want his forum overrun zhiba and I wouldn't if it was my forum and it would be wrong of me to take advantage of him like that.

I just want to share our truths and beliefs without hitting each other over the head with them.

As I mentioned to Getagrip the other week ....would he be against maybe anyone who wants to promote their religion should pay him for advertising space?

I'd be quite happy to go along with that and donate towards having a space down here in the Religion Forum.



On a different note ....I watched that great vid the other night where David takes you into his flat ....cool eh ...how many would do that?

I noticed he's into steam trains and he had one or two pictures on his wall.

I was wondering what he thought of this artist I found on YouTube and if he had any paintings of his or not?

If he liked them ....I thought it would be a nice idea from the forum to get him one.....or perhaps one done by an artist that he does like.

Not forgetting Velma on here who I'm sure could do David a wonderful oil of such


https://youtu.be/9RuQlnVnsuM


I think it would be lovely to keep it quiet though and surprise him when you present it to him
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Old 13-12-2016, 12:26 PM   #8
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Good luck on your journey
Thanks paddy blake

I wish you well with your own research ....the way I look at it is that we are all actually in this together and we're all suffering to one degree or other ...many immensely so.

If we can't come together and share our views without insulting one another then we are done for imo .....we are never going to go anywhere as a race.....apart from around and around in circles.

I'm enjoying reading your Shadow/Jungian Analysis thread in the other forum btw.

I'm trying to self analyse as I'm reading along with you guys and enjoying what you are all saying.

I agree with what you say about fear.

Whilst I think we have an external spiritual battle going on ......from my own personal experience I think our greatest internal battle is with our fears.

For me this fear thing is a bit like peeling an onion ....but with my mind

I seem to grasp an understanding of one layer and 'think' I've removed that only to find another skin and layer underneath



Many moons ago I had the pleasure of doing some framing jobs for this gentleman and I think he sums it up perfectly with what he says here ....


https://youtu.be/8f8wAXDZ9D0



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Old 13-12-2016, 12:30 PM   #9
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I think these folk are doing religion more harm than good and it's the same with everything from what I can see ......these kinds reside within both atheism and religionism .....there are extremists and nutters running around on both sides inflating their own egos and using their beliefs as a barrier.

I see cults everywhere and lots of people that are incredibly egocentric in a way that they seemed to have missed the point completely.

I pray constantly that what I say is not something that is actually anti-Christ .......this is something I have to live with on my conscience daily.

It's so incredibly difficult to sift through the tangled web that has been woven.

In many ways my beliefs are similar to David's in that I think that there is an Archontic/Demonic force at work against us ....I also agree with his idea of God being a loving infinite consciousness ....even though he stays away from the words God etc
So many little truths in your post. Yes, but I think one of the most valuable things about Christianity (or Gnosticism) is that those Archonic/Demonic forces not only work outside of us, but inside of us too.

It's why there are wolves in sheeps clothing.

And no, I do not believe you are a wolf Just that there are wolves dressed up as sheep, and we must all be aware of them.
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Old 13-12-2016, 12:32 PM   #10
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Thanks paddy blake

I wish you well with your own research ....the way I look at it is that we are all actually in this together and we're all suffering to one degree or other ...many immensely so.

If we can't come together and share our views without insulting one another then we are done for imo .....we are never going to go anywhere as a race.....apart from around and around in circles.

I'm enjoying reading your Shadow/Jungian Analysis thread in the other forum btw.

I'm trying to self analyse as I'm reading along with you guys and enjoying what you are all saying.

I agree with what you say about fear.

Whilst I think we have an external spiritual battle going on ......from my own personal experience I think our greatest internal battle is with our fears.

For me this fear thing is a bit like peeling an onion ....but with my mind

I seem to grasp an understanding of one layer and 'think' I've removed that only to find another skin and layer underneath



Many moons ago I had the pleasure of doing some framing jobs for this gentleman and I think he sums it up perfectly with what he says here ....


https://youtu.be/8f8wAXDZ9D0


Thankyou Chevron. I hope you gain some understanding from it. If there are any questions you wish to ask about it in that thread, feel free.
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Old 13-12-2016, 12:57 PM   #11
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You are understandably confused ... the directive makes no sense ...

Anyone who argues for a religion could be said to be promoting it ...

I think basically management doesn't want the religious people winning the argument (no chance with me here) ...or the forum overrun with such discussions ....

Just go for it chevron , no holds barred , if you step over the mark I'm sure you'll get a warning before anything drastic happens.
Ooh! you little rebel you


Hey... That's gonna look great on me C.V


'Banned for being a religious nuisance on the David Icke Forum'

I'll never get employment again


Seriously though oz ......I do agree with what you say though that if we discuss or argue for what we believe in it could then be construed as promoting it.

It's where the border lines lie that I can't seem to grasp.

At the same time I do not wish to upset David's research or his business in anyway.

Whilst him and I differ on our spiritual beliefs ......in many ways they are also quite similar and I greatly respect the guy and his outspoken views as regards the tide of machine-likeness that this world constantly thrusts against us.


https://youtu.be/9qEsTCTuajE



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Old 13-12-2016, 01:11 PM   #12
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So many little truths in your post. Yes, but I think one of the most valuable things about Christianity (or Gnosticism) is that those Archonic/Demonic forces not only work outside of us, but inside of us too.

It's why there are wolves in sheeps clothing.

And no, I do not believe you are a wolf Just that there are wolves dressed up as sheep, and we must all be aware of them.
Yes I agree with you entirely as regards them being able to work inside us.

As someone who studies Christianity I am more feared of other Christians and what they teach than someone who doesn't follow it.

I understand the Bible to be telling us to do as such .....especially as you say ....these wolves in sheeps clothing etc.

The apostasy and anti-Christ attitude that is foretold in the scriptures was to come from within it's followers.

If it is the truth then I think one of the best ways that Satan could attack it would be from within by using the Trojan Horse method.

Psychopaths in my opinion are going to also be some of the most charming like people within society.

It seems to go undetected even within the family unit for years.



I'm so happy that you don't believe I am a wolf

I constantly keep checking if my ears and muzzle are growing or whether or not I'm getting bits of fur appearing here and there

And if I keep reading your thread I'm sure that'll help keep me in check too
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Old 14-12-2016, 10:37 PM   #13
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Sounds pretty close to the ban on questioning the Holocaust to be quite honest. It is only topics that are false than need to be censored.
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Old 15-12-2016, 12:29 AM   #14
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Sounds pretty close to the ban on questioning the Holocaust to be quite honest. It is only topics that are false than need to be censored.
Well, i guess in that case mega would be ok with the forum hosting religious propoganda from Satanists? Or even white supremicists promoting themselves as 'gods chosen race,' Muslim and Jewish fanatics telling us that we must change or else etc?

Perhaps you feel tat this kind of thing should be promoted on the main board?

https://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=240549

Or that here should be a place for religious fanatics to pedle their clear bias?

While the owner of the forum speaks out about the hypocricy of religion and exposes it for what it is, do you feel the forum should ignore his work and promote what is arguably the single most proliffic divide and conquer ethic of humanity?

It is nothing like a ban on questioning the holacaust... But, ironically, those who do question it are questioning one of the foundations of manipulation set in place by those who wish to control us - the bible and other religious texts have also been applied as tools of manipulation. It is only right, that on a forum set in place to 'question everything' that such be questioned and exposed. Or, would you prefer the forum to be a place to promote religion but not allow criticism of it?

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Old 16-12-2016, 10:34 AM   #15
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While the owner of the forum speaks out about the hypocricy of religion and exposes it for what it is, do you feel the forum should ignore his work and promote what is arguably the single most proliffic divide and conquer ethic of humanity?
I am totally confused about this zhiba.

You say there that David speaks out as regards the hypocrisy of religion.

Surely he doesn't mean 'all' religions?

As far as I can make out ......by the definition of the word ....isn't David promoting his own religion?

The reason why I was drawn to listen to his teachings because he talks about the Archons which is similar to my belief of Demons.

In this recent Wembley talk he even likens the Gnostic Archons to the Biblical Demon and the Islamic Jinn and Sumerian Anunnaki ....

https://youtu.be/P3y_N3oRmgw


I'm sincerely interested to know what he regards as truth in the Bible and what he understands as not to be so?


That vid you posted me above as regards what he says about religion ....is that clip from 2008?

I'm wondering if his ideas have changed since then as I have seen that he has done that in the past? .......just as many of us do.

The reason I ask if he has changed his opinions is that I have found quite a bit of recent research that could possibly refute what he is saying on that vid as regards Jesus being a rehash of Mithras or Horus.

Am I allowed to post other Biblical research than David's on here?

I won't go ahead and do so without his permission.



I am sure that David himself must have come across refutations of his findings and I am very interested to know where his present thoughts are on these things .......especially the Horus/Mithras being Jesus thing?

As I have said I respect David immensely and the work he has done as regards exposing the evil world that we live in.

Where it comes to his views on spirituality ......whilst I agree with him that we have an Archontic struggle on our hands I differ in my views of who or what our actual creator is.


I don't believe that religion in itself is wrong ......imo it is the wrong beliefs that we have been exposed to and manipulated by that are the problem.

I daily have to consider that perhaps the religion that David promotes is the truth and mine is wrong? .......this is why I study here.....I love and seek truth.



I think it is our ego and our ignorance that is the biggest divisive factor .....then our ego has used both religion and politics as mechanisms to dominate others.

Ultimately I believe it is the Demonic/Archontic ego that is the root of our problems and that these entities are manipulating our own thoughts and desires and have done for century upon century.


This is an interesting reply on Quora to the question of whether or not religion is divisive within society :


The point is to PROPERLY IDENTIFY THE PROBLEM. The problem IS NOT religion, or any other corrupt area. Consider engineering for a second and physics. They created an atom bomb that killed thousands of people in an instant and have held the ENTIRE WORLD in a spectre of unimaginable terror for decades. No one accuses ENGINEERS or PHYSICISTS for being divisive or otherwise evil.

https://www.quora.com/Why-cant-many-...on-is-division


I think that Satan is using every aspect of our society to confuse and control us ...whether it is religion, politics, science, commerce, education, health etc etc

He's got his Saturnalia do coming up hasn't he ........I should imagine he relishes in that one.

He's got folk celebrating it for nearly 3 months of the year now.

Nothing to see or anything untoward going on here lol ........just keep your heads down and party on folks!!
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Old 16-12-2016, 11:02 AM   #16
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I am totally confused about this zhiba.

You say there that David speaks out as regards the hypocrisy of religion.

Surely he doesn't mean 'all' religions?

As far as I can make out ......by the definition of the word ....isn't David promoting his own religion?
Religion is an umbrella phrase that covers all religion.

No, David isn't promoting a religion, he is promoting free thought and free expression - something religious doctrine directly opposes because it defines what you should believe if you wish to benefit.

Quote:
The point is to PROPERLY IDENTIFY THE PROBLEM. The problem IS NOT religion, or any other corrupt area. Consider engineering for a second and physics. They created an atom bomb that killed thousands of people in an instant and have held the ENTIRE WORLD in a spectre of unimaginable terror for decades. No one accuses ENGINEERS or PHYSICISTS for being divisive or otherwise evil.

The problem is religion when religion defines it's believers as elite, or better than other, when it defines itself as right / correct and all other as wrong or in error - because that stalls the mind from opening and accepting that we are all one, coming from the same place and going back to the same place and doing all the same things inbetween - some journeys are longer than others, and while some camp at the side of the road, shouting at others who are walking their own way that they are doing it wrong, religion will remain a problem.

These are my views, they may or may not be the same as David's.

As i have said, repeatedly, the rules are in place and those rules will be applied if people choose to promote religion and religious texts in a forum that is attempting to expose them for what they are.

Physics and science have done a lot to aid the growth of humanity - had we left it to religion then we may still be living in a cave trying to apease the thunder gods - science and physics are about expanding, religion is about suplication and servitude.

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Old 16-12-2016, 11:49 AM   #17
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Religion is an umbrella phrase that covers all religion.

No, David isn't promoting a religion, he is promoting free thought and free expression - something religious doctrine directly opposes because it defines what you should believe if you wish to benefit.



The problem is religion when religion defines it's believers as elite, or better than other, when it defines itself as right / correct and all other as wrong or in error - because that stalls the mind from opening and accepting that we are all one, coming from the same place and going back to the same place and doing all the same things inbetween - some journeys are longer than others, and while some camp at the side of the road, shouting at others who are walking their own way that they are doing it wrong, religion will remain a problem.

These are my views, they may or may not be the same as David's.

I agree entirely with what you say as regards the elitism zhiba.

How on earth did any Christian teachers miss this little text in the book of Matthew where Jesus says that we should not call anyone 'father' ?

http://biblehub.com/matthew/23-9.htm

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/23-9.htm



As for David not promoting a religion .....perhaps you and I have a different understanding of the word religion.

This is how I understand the word :

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=re...&client=safari


As far as I can see from that definition there, David is filling the criteria?



He's also saying that other's are wrong isn't he .....as they are walking by on their journey .....just as you mentioned above.

Has he himself not got his own roadside campfire thing going?


I'm still non the wiser as to whether or not we are allowed to post information that disagrees with David's Biblical research?

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Old 16-12-2016, 12:02 PM   #18
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Going back a long time ago there were members who pushed their particular beliefs like a ramming rod towards others. They also crossed over sub-forums promoting their agenda at every opportunity. In the end the guidelines were changed to protect everyone. We have very few rules here and based on history, this is one that has to be maintained.
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Old 16-12-2016, 12:45 PM   #19
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What's the difference between a religious believer and a believer of any other nature?

I mean, it's not like all forum members question every belief system...even their own.
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Old 16-12-2016, 01:03 PM   #20
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What's the difference between a religious believer and a believer of any other nature?

I mean, it's not like all forum members question every belief system...even their own.
Have you watched the video in post #4? David speaks very plainly about his findings on organised religion and the agenda behind it. Once that reasoning is understood it makes perfect sense as to why this forum will not allow itself to become a platform to promote such an agenda.

There must be so many online forums who welcome such discussions and are happy to discuss with like minded individuals.

People who come onto this forum with the sole intention of promoting their religious beliefs will be disappointed by the response they and their posts get. The rules (which people agree to when they sign up as members) are very clear on this matter.
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