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Old 26-07-2009, 03:28 PM   #101
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Now, I personally do not support any religion nor do I have a desire to join any faith or sect, as I refuse to worship anything that calls itself a god. However we should be factual here. The Talmud gets mentioned commonly in association with Judaism and Zionism by those in the conspiracy world. Have those making this association actually researched to find out which branches of Judaism actually use the Talmud? It is like accusing all Christians of a belief based on something out of the Book of Mormon (or even the Ante Nicean Fathers which most Christians today have not heard of)... after all millions of Christians follow that book. The Torah is the primary religious book of Judaism. The Talmud is not used by all sects. It could also be noted that the primary sect that uses the Talmud, Orthodox Jews were one of the strongest voices AGAINST the formation of the state of Israel because the formation of a Jewish state in Israel during this time period is a violation of their religious beliefs.
the talmud is the holy book of judaism, anti-zionist rabbis oppose zionism on talmudic grounds.

can you name a jewish sect that rejects the talmud? other than the karaites?
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Old 26-07-2009, 03:37 PM   #102
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the talmud is the holy book of judaism, anti-zionist rabbis oppose zionism on talmudic grounds.

can you name a jewish sect that rejects the talmud? other than the karaites?
Most of the sects don't read from it or follow it. The Torah is the holy book of Judaism. The majority of religious Jews do not read from the Talmud.

Using your logic can you name a Christian sect that rejects the Ante-Nicene Fathers, which in theory SHOULD be the primary religious books of the Christian faith. Most Christians don't reject them for the most part, but certainly do not read from or own copies of them.

Right the Orthodox Rabbis reject Zionism based on Talmudic grounds... yet someone in this thread is claiming the Talmud is the foundation of Zionism. Do you see the contridiction?

Zionism was created on political grounds using religion as a smoke screen to pull in support from two major religions.
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Old 26-07-2009, 03:37 PM   #103
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Zionism is a political agenda created and promoted by the Rothchild family, the majority of whom are not even practicing Jews, and genetically are members of the bloodline families (just as I am), which the majority of Jews are not. If you fail to understand how the genetic lines of the ruling families work, you will not grasp the basic political structure behind what you are terming the NWO. You'll be forever grasping at straws, just as they would prefer you did.
the rothschilds can do whatever they want because they follow the sabbatean-frankist path.

in my understanding, they are the direct descendants of the 17th century messiah sabbetai zevi.

the zionist agenda and the nwo are one and the same: jewish messianism in disguise.
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Old 26-07-2009, 03:47 PM   #104
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Most of the sects don't read from it or follow it. The Torah is the holy book of Judaism. The majority of religious Jews do not read from the Talmud.

Using your logic can you name a Christian sect that rejects the Ante-Nicene Fathers, which in theory SHOULD be the primary religious books of the Christian faith. Most Christians don't reject them for the most part, but certainly do not read from or own copies of them.

Right the Orthodox Rabbis reject Zionism based on Talmudic grounds... yet someone in this thread is claiming the Talmud is the foundation of Zionism. Do you see the contridiction?

Zionism was created on political grounds using religion as a smoke screen to pull in support from two major religions.
can you name at least one sect that rejects the talmud, other than the karaites?

and only a tiny minority of orthodox rabbis reject zionism, but all rabbis are talmudists.

they give different interpretations to certain passages.
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Old 26-07-2009, 04:05 PM   #105
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A lot of Jews like the Rothschilds (Bauer) families were descendants of the Khazar empire, and most of them pretended to convert to Judaism in the 7th century.

Most of these Jews don't care one bit about religion they are against religions.

Why do you think they hate religions?

They have been fighting religions tooth and nail.

Why?
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Old 26-07-2009, 04:11 PM   #106
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A lot of Jews like the Rothschilds (Bauer) families were descendants of the Khazar empire, and most of them pretended to convert to Judaism in the 7th century.

Most of these Jews don't care one bit about religion they are against religions.

Why do you think they hate religions?

They have been fighting religions tooth and nail.

Why?
That is where we agree to disagree. I consider all religion the creation of the PTB, and useful tools for them. I'll absolutely never kneel to any being that refers to itself as a god.

If the brotherhood collectively rejected all religion and worship of gods, I would no longer consider them the bad guys. Religion is absolutely the enemey, and has been one of their most powerful tools for all of history.

Last edited by darketernal; 26-07-2009 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 26-07-2009, 04:28 PM   #107
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A lot of Jews like the Rothschilds (Bauer) families were descendants of the Khazar empire, and most of them pretended to convert to Judaism in the 7th century.

Most of these Jews don't care one bit about religion they are against religions.

Why do you think they hate religions?

They have been fighting religions tooth and nail.

Why?
my take is a bit different:

the rothschilds aren't khazars, they are greek jews, i.e. "true jews".

they don't follow any religion because they think they are god to themselves.

but they don't hate religion, it's a useful tool, and their final goal is to be venerated
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Old 26-07-2009, 04:35 PM   #108
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That is where we agree to disagree. I consider all religion the creation of the PTB, and useful tools for them. I'll absolutely never kneel to any being that refers to itself as a god.

If the brotherhood collectively rejected all religion and worship of gods, I would no longer consider them the bad guys. Religion is absolutely the enemey, and has been one of their most powerful tools for all of history.
That's where we agree to disagree as you said lol

I can prove that religion has nothing to do with it, religion has been used, religion has been framed and they carried out the most hateful things in human history in the name of religion, for that same purpose.

If you check what religion really is, and what the Holy Books have in them, religion actually stands against them and their deeds.

You haven't answered me though lol, if it's their creation, why are they fighting it then?
Have you read those Books and looked what's in them or you just decided religion is the enemy?

So in your opinion there's no God is that it? the universe came to existence just like that out of the blue, one minute it wasn't and then suddenly bang we all here and life sprung out of nothing?

But as you said yes it's better we leave it here it's rather sad though, you would only consider a person as a good guy if he rejects his religion or faith?

Well excuse me but you seem to be intolerant and not the other way around, so according to you I am a bad guy unless I reject my belief and faith?

humm that's not very wise mate, so if I consider every none believer as a bad guy, where are we going to end up then?
enemies? is that your message?

I am religious right? and I am fighting the same bastards who are enslaving us all, so I am still your enemy and a bad guy?

humm
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Old 26-07-2009, 05:01 PM   #109
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That's where we agree to disagree as you said lol

I can prove that religion has nothing to do with it, religion has been used, religion has been framed and they carried out the most hateful things in human history in the name of religion, for that same purpose.

If you check what religion really is, and what the Holy Books have in them, religion actually stands against them and their deeds.

You haven't answered me though lol, if it's their creation, why are they fighting it then?
Have you read those Books and looked what's in them or you just decided religion is the enemy?

So in your opinion there's no God is that it? the universe came to existence just like that out of the blue, one minute it wasn't and then suddenly bang we all here and life sprung out of nothing?

But as you said yes it's better we leave it here it's rather sad though, you would only consider a person as a good guy if he rejects his religion or faith?

Well excuse me but you seem to be intolerant and not the other way around, so according to you I am a bad guy unless I reject my belief and faith?

humm that's not very wise mate, so if I consider every none believer as a bad guy, where are we going to end up then?
enemies? is that your message?

I am religious right? and I am fighting the same bastards who are enslaving us all, so I am still your enemy and a bad guy?

humm
We disagree that they are fighting against religion. They may pit religion against religion, but they absolutely do not want the religions gone. They do occassionally eliminate one of their created religions as some are only intented to last an age or two, then all of its members sacrificed (Christianity is next up for this) to attone for the wrong doings of the faith, which they use to promote their agendas and place the "karmic blame" upon a faith (and to free themselves of debt), and to harvest their energy.

I never said the gods of these religions do not exist. I said I refuse to kneel before a being which calls itself a god.

No, your choice of faiths does not make you my enemey unless you should choose to attack me in a confrontation. It makes you a battery, and a potential sacrifice for whichever ascended old one is pretending to be a god in your respective faith, and effectively removes you from the conflict completely as you've given up your choice to be an active player.

Most of humanity is caught up in a game they do not understand the rules of, or even realize they are playing.
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Old 26-07-2009, 05:08 PM   #110
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We disagree that they are fighting against religion. They may pit religion against religion, but they absolutely do not want the religions gone. They do occassionally eliminate one of their created religions as some are only intented to last an age or two, then all of its members sacrificed (Christianity is next up for this) to attone for the wrong doings of the faith, which they use to promote their agendas and place the "karmic blame" upon a faith (and to free themselves of debt), and to harvest their energy.

I never said the gods of these religions do not exist. I said I refuse to kneel before a being which calls itself a god.

No, your choice of faiths does not make you my enemey unless you should choose to attack me in a confrontation. It makes you a battery, and a potential sacrifice for whichever ascended old one is pretending to be a god in your respective faith, and effectively removes you from the conflict completely as you've given up your choice to be an active player.

Most of humanity is caught up in a game they do not understand the rules of, or even realize they are playing.
eheheh you're still promoting the extermination of christians i see

"no i'm not promoting anything, it's simply how things are destined to be"

yes mr nostrodomos, i know that i can trust you, and your logic is crystalline.

my analysis is slightly different:

judaism can no longer exist, there can be no chosen people, because we're all equal.
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Old 26-07-2009, 05:10 PM   #111
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my take is a bit different:

the rothschilds aren't khazars, they are greek jews, i.e. "true jews".

they don't follow any religion because they think they are god to themselves.

but they don't hate religion, it's a useful tool, and their final goal is to be venerated
No I have to disagree with you, the Rothschilds are Bauers and they are definitely not real Jews (Hebrews) they are originally from Germany which are descendants of the Khazar empire, their real name is Bauer.

They are not from the 12 tribes of the Jews, and they couldn't give a rats a** about religion, they used religion in the past to declare wars.

a religious person doesn't want to be worshipped or look upon.
Rothschilds are Ashkenazics.
You're confusing them with Prince Philip, he is from Greek Jewish family, but still an Ahkenazic.

The khazar empire only the rich and the nobles converted to Judaism not the whole population, they used to worship different gods, and their main religion was Shamanism.
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Old 26-07-2009, 05:21 PM   #112
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We disagree that they are fighting against religion. They may pit religion against religion, but they absolutely do not want the religions gone. They do occassionally eliminate one of their created religions
Why don't you tell us how they created these religions?

It's impossible, I mean impossible for them, or any human being to create the religions as we know them, they used them, they mislead people in a certain way by using corrupt priests and Imams, Rabbis, yes, but them creating them.

It is impossible, why don't you tell us how did you come to this conclusion then?
how much do you know about these religions, and what's in them?

You can't just state something you have to have real irrefutable evidence that it's been created by men, there are some religions were created by man or men, but not the 3 Abrahimic religions, sorry.

there are things that no human being could know, there are tons of evidence, people nowdays follow what they think it's the cause of all problems.

Let me ask you a question then.

We know people fight for land, oil, money, gold and so on..
should we stop using them then?
because the truth is that is the real motivation of these evil doers, it's all about money, power, control, and wealth.
you're still using money
if you have enough money I am sure you will buy land and gold
if someone offers you an oil well you wouldn't say no, would you?

So why when it's religion it's easy to just reject it and think it's the source of all our problems?
Not very wise my friend.
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Old 26-07-2009, 05:26 PM   #113
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No I have to disagree with you, the Rothschilds are Bauers and they are definitely not real Jews (Hebrews) they are originally from Germany which are descendants of the Khazar empire, their real name is Bauer.

They are not from the 12 tribes of the Jews, and they couldn't give a rats a** about religion, they used religion in the past to declare wars.

a religious person doesn't want to be worshipped or look upon.
Rothschilds are Ashkenazics.
You're confusing them with Prince Philip, he is from Greek Jewish family, but still an Ahkenazic.

The khazar empire only the rich and the nobles converted to Judaism not the whole population, they used to worship different gods, and their main religion was Shamanism.
i'm not confusing anything, i'm convinced that the rothschilds are the direct descendants of sabbetai zevi, sabbetai was a romaniote, and the romaniotes are "true jews": you're trying to turn it into a racial issue, but your premises may be faulty.

the name bauer means nothing, just like the name rothschild: names can be created and changed.
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Old 26-07-2009, 05:33 PM   #114
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Most of the sects don't read from it or follow it. The Torah is the holy book of Judaism. The majority of religious Jews do not read from the Talmud.
Rabbinic Judaism or Rabbinism has been the mainstream form of Judaism since the codification of the in the centuries following the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE by the Roman Empire. Rabbinic Judaism gained predominance within the Jewish diaspora between the second to sixth centuries CE, with the development of the and the to control the interpretation of Jewish scripture and to encourage the practice of Judaism in the absence of Temple sacrifice and other practices no longer possible. Rabbinic Judaism is based on the belief that at Mount Sinai Moses received directly from God the Torah (Pentateuch) as well as additional oral explanation of the revelation, the "oral law," that was transmitted by Moses to the people in oral form.

The are the largest religious group within Judaism which does not recognize the Talmud. Their rejection of the Talmud would seem to imply that they are opposed to Zionism; however, even most Karaite Jews have already immigrated to Israel:
"Today it is estimated that there are as many as 30,000 Karaites or more worldwide, with 20,000-25,000 of them living in Israel...Most Karaites today have made to Israel, having immigrated from Arab countries such as Egypt and Iraq."
As you can see, the number of Karaite Jews is very small in comparison to the total Jewish population, and the fact that they are the largest Jewish group to reject the Talmud means that the vast majority of religious Jews do accept the Talmud as authoritiative.

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Right the Orthodox Rabbis reject Zionism based on Talmudic grounds... yet someone in this thread is claiming the Talmud is the foundation of Zionism. Do you see the contridiction?
Most of today's Orthodox Jews are pro-Zionist. Prior to WWII, most Orthodox Jews were antagonistic to Zionism, but there were some Orthodox rabbis who were supportive of Zionism, and they based their views on their interpretation of Torah and Talmud. The shift in thought was caused by the legacy of the Nazis and the Holocaust. After the Nazi Holocaust, the view of the pro-Zionist rabbis became the dominant view among Orthodox Jews. Zionism derives its strength almost entirely from the legacy of the Holocaust. The modern state of Israel probably could not have come into existence without it. Indeed, the Holocaust gave birth to Israel.

"In Israel, Modern Orthodoxy is dominated by ." --
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Old 26-07-2009, 06:04 PM   #115
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i'm not confusing anything, i'm convinced that the rothschilds are the direct descendants of sabbetai zevi, sabbetai was a romaniote, and the romaniotes are "true jews": you're trying to turn it into a racial issue, but your premises may be faulty.

the name bauer means nothing, just like the name rothschild: names can be created and changed.
No you're wrong mate I have no interest in turning it into a racial issue, that doesn't mean other true Jews are not init either.
I am talking about this family.

Now we need to make one thing clear, anyone who converts to Judaism is a Jew.
Jewry is not a race, yes they come from a Jewish family.
But if you're saying that these guys are Hebrews you're definitely wrong mate.

the Hebrews have a different look, middle eastern look or even black, but not white caucasian look.

These guys are definitely from the Khazar empire originally and originated from Germany in the 16th century.

They are bavarian Jews.
And they only believe in power, Satan, lucifer and so on, they couldn't give a monkeys about other religions, as they know those religions are against them.

That's all I had to say, not turning anything into a racial debate at all.
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Old 26-07-2009, 06:06 PM   #116
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Rabbinic Judaism or Rabbinism has been the mainstream form of Judaism since the codification of the Talmud in the centuries following the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE by the Roman Empire. Rabbinic Judaism gained predominance within the Jewish diaspora between the second to sixth centuries CE, with the development of the oral law and the Talmud to control the interpretation of Jewish scripture and to encourage the practice of Judaism in the absence of Temple sacrifice and other practices no longer possible. Rabbinic Judaism is based on the belief that at Mount Sinai Moses received directly from God the Torah (Pentateuch) as well as additional oral explanation of the revelation, the "oral law," that was transmitted by Moses to the people in oral form.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbinic_Judaism

The Karaites are the largest religious group within Judaism which does not recognize the Talmud. Their rejection of the Talmud would seem to imply that they are opposed to Zionism; however, even most Karaite Jews have already immigrated to Israel:
"Today it is estimated that there are as many as 30,000 Karaites or more worldwide, with 20,000-25,000 of them living in Israel...Most Karaites today have made Aliyah to Israel, having immigrated from Arab countries such as Egypt and Iraq."
As you can see, the number of Karaite Jews is very small in comparison to the total Jewish population, and the fact that they are the largest Jewish group to reject the Talmud means that the vast majority of religious Jews do accept the Talmud as authoritiative.



Most of today's Orthodox Jews are pro-Zionist. Prior to WWII, most Orthodox Jews were antagonistic to Zionism, but there were some Orthodox rabbis who were supportive of Zionism, and they based their views on their interpretation of Torah and Talmud. The shift in thought was caused by the legacy of the Nazis and the Holocaust. After the Nazi Holocaust, the view of the pro-Zionist rabbis became the dominant view among Orthodox Jews. Zionism derives its strength almost entirely from the legacy of the Holocaust. The modern state of Israel probably could not have come into existence without it. Indeed, the Holocaust gave birth to Israel.

"In Israel, Modern Orthodoxy is dominated by Religious Zionism." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Orthodox_Judaism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Zionism
Not openly rejecting it is not the same as reading it. Most sects of Judaism do not teach from or read from the Talmud.

In reply to your last argument I used only past tense words when describing the stance of the Orthodox Rabbis on the formation of the state of Israel. We've not disagreed. WWII changed many things in this world, as it was intended to do. Hitler was placed into power for a number of reasons, and he played his role beautifully for the PTB.
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Old 26-07-2009, 06:11 PM   #117
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Israel is not a member despite 20% of its population being of Arab origin, nearly half the Jewish population being descended from Jews from Arab countries, and Arabic being an official language.


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The Khazar myth of Ashkenazi origins has now been proven false by DNA testing - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars#DNA_Evidence (please refer to the academic sources cited there, rather than Wikipedia itself). Furthermore, even if it were true, Ashkenazi only make up 38% of the population of Israel.

If the Khazar myth were true, then this creates something of a dilemma for those anti-semites who believe the Jews to be racially inferior. Which race, precisely, is inferior? The Turkic Khazar Ashkenazi, or the Semitic Palestinian Sephardi?
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Old 26-07-2009, 06:16 PM   #118
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Not openly rejecting it is not the same as reading it. Most sects of Judaism do not teach from or read from the Talmud.
This may well be the case, I'm really not sure as I haven't thoroughly studied Judaism and I don't personally know anyone who is Jewish. I'd be interested to read more about that. Do you have any references you can cite for that claim?

Here's another passage I found on the subject:
In Orthodox Judaism, the Oral Torah [Talmud] is accepted as equally sacred, inspired, and authoritative as the Written Torah [Tanakh]. One of the aims of Orthodox Judaism in Israel is to establish Talmudic law as the state law of Israel. Elsewhere in the world, Orthodox Jews submit themselves voluntarily to Talmudic law and the rabbinic court system, especially in matters of dietary and ritual law, marriage and divorce, and social work.

The Talmud also plays an important role in Conservative Judaism, although it is viewed as an evolutionary process that changes with the times. Both professional and lay Talmudic scholarship is dedicated to determining the proper response to modern issues by intensive study of the Talmud. Reform Judaism officially rejects the Talmud as an entirely human invention reflecting medieval thought and values.
http://www.religionfacts.com/judaism/texts/talmud.htm

Last edited by kasalt; 26-07-2009 at 06:19 PM.
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Old 26-07-2009, 06:18 PM   #119
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Not openly rejecting it is not the same as reading it. Most sects of Judaism do not teach from or read from the Talmud.

In reply to your last argument I used only past tense words when describing the stance of the Orthodox Rabbis on the formation of the state of Israel. We've not disagreed. WWII changed many things in this world, as it was intended to do. Hitler was placed into power for a number of reasons, and he played his role beautifully for the PTB.
you've been requested to name at least one of these mysterious sects.

maybe you're describing judaism how you'd like it to be, with no real basis.
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Old 26-07-2009, 06:21 PM   #120
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Maybe this is the jews way of punishing the US. If the US refuses war against Iran and such then they altogether trash our economy. Just like they did Germany shortly after WW2.
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