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Old 25-07-2008, 10:08 AM   #81
picha
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Originally Posted by wearechangeyorkshire View Post
I'd like to see you provide evidence to back up your claims...i doubt that you can though.

I came to this forum with just peace and love...as a huge fan of david...i was looking to find like minded heads...seems to be a lot of hate on here though...

What happened to infinite love?

Peace
I certainly can provide evidence. It really is beyond a joke how moslems can claim mohammed was peaceful when the evidence to prove otherwise can be found in their own texts.
I know orthodox moslems believe the whole world belongs to alllah and that the whole world will one day be islamic governed by islamic sharia law. That sounds like a one world government to me. It may be different to the one which the illuminati want but its still a one world government none the same.

1) Massacre of unarmed merchants during sacred month
Date: Late January(Rejeb), 623 A.D.
Place: Nakhla
Victims: 4 Merchants from Quraysh tribe of Mecca, the Tribe to which Mohammed himself belonged

Four UNARMED merchants were travelling to Mecca to sell their goods consisting of raisins, honey and animal skins. It was the holy month of Rejeb which was considered sacred for trade in Arabia. It was a point of honor that any form of warfare or violence was strictly forbidden in this month. Mohammed's gang attacked the helpless men from behind and stabbed two of them to death. They plundered all the goods as booty and Mohammed got one fifths of the share.

This shows the utter lack of morals or scruples on Mohammed's part. The Prophet of Islam did not possess a shred of pity or kindness, or the slightest sense of justice. He cold-bloodedly murdered two innocent people who had never done him any harm and did not even know him! All this was done in a month that the Prophet himself declared was a sacred month in which no warfare should take place. Mohammed was obviously motivated by nothing but hatred and greed.

Conveniently divine revelations came down from Allah that absolved him of all the guilt.

Koran 2:216
"Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that you hate a thing which is good for you and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, you knew not."

Here Mohammed is completely removing all blame from himself, for having started the fighting. The most insidious and devilish implication of this verse is that Allah is completely justifying Mohammed's murder of the innocent Meccans. Over and above this Mohammed is conveniently implying that warfare is hateful to him, but he participated in it because it was ordained by Allah! What sacrifices the "Apostle of Peace" had to make!

Koran 2:217
"They question you (O Mohammed) with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say: Warfare therein is a great transgression but to turn men from the way of Allah and to disbelive in Him and the inviolable place of worship and to expel its people thence is a greater transgression, for persecution is worse than killing"

Here Allah is clearly saying that to kill or create warfare in the sacred month of Rejeb is a very grave offence, but to justify his own violation of Allah's rules, Mohammed comes up with the idea that since the people killed were unbelievers, it was perfectly okay! The reason given for the horrific murder of the innocent Meccans, is the fact that they did not believe in Mohammed's version of God. How much more tolerant and kind could the "Great Prophet" be!






2) Slaughter of Meccans who came to defend their caravans
Date: March (Ramadan) 17, 623 A.D
Place: The well of Badr
Victims: 70 merchants from Quraysh Tribe of Mecca, The Quraysh army which came to defend them

The merchandise being carried by this caravan was worth more than 50,000 Gold Dinars. Mohammed ganged up all the criminals of Medina and set out to raid the caravan with 300 men. The Meccans got word of the raid and sent out an army to protect the caravan. Throughout the entire battle Mohammad cowered in a hut which his men made for him. There he cried and prayed with feverish anxiety. At one point he came out of the hut and threw pebbles in the enemy's direction, screaming "Let evil look on your faces!" and "By him who holds my soul in his hands, anyone who fights for me today will go to paradise!" The Muslims killed over two hundred and took seventy prisoners. All seventy of the prisoners were ransomed, and any prisoner who did not fetch a ransom had his head chopped off.

Mohammed was gratified at the sight of his murdered victims. After the battle, he sent his followers to look for the corpse of Abu Jahal, one of the Meccans who had criticised him openly. When his corpse was found,they cut off the head and threw it down at Mohammed's feet. The "Apostle of peace" cried out in delirious joy, "Rejoice! Here lies the head of the enemy of Allah! Praise Allah, for there is no other but he!" The Prophet then ordered a great pit to be dug for the bodies of the innocents to be dumped. The Muslims then proceeded to hack the corpses limbs into pieces. As the bloodied mass of bodies was being thrown into the pit, a feverishly excited Mohammed shreiked, " O People of the Pit, have you found that what Allah threatened is true now? For I have found that what my Lord promised was true! Rejoice All Muslims!" One of the prisoners taken was the defiant Al Nadr Ibn al Harith, who had earlier taken Muhammad's challenge of telling better stories than him. Muhammad ordered Ali to strike off Nadr's head in his presence, so he could watch and exult in the pleasure of beheading the man who had insulted him. Another prisoner Uqba ibn Abi Muait was decapitated in front of the Prophet. Before being killed the prisoner cried out pitifully "O Prophet, who will look after my children if I should die?" The "Great Prophet of the Religion of Peace" coldly spat out "Hellfire", as the blade came down and spattered his clothes with Uqba's blood.

This time Mohammed needed a revelation that would not only absolve him of all the guilt for murdering so many innocent people, but also give him the "divine" right to get a huge share of the plundered booty. Quite a few revelations magically appeared after the battle of Badr.

Koran 8:65
"O Prophet exhort the believers to fight. If there be of you 20 steadfast,they will overcome 200 and if there be of you a 100, they shall overcome a 1000, because the disbelievers are a folk without intelligence"

This Sura clearly exposes Islam to be a religion that not only encourages violence but actually makes it a sacred duty for Muslims to kill anyone who does not believe in the Muslim version of religion. Not only is the "All forgiving Allah" exhorting his followers to kill anyone who is not Muslim, but he is also saying that all non-Muslims are so stupid that they will be unable to defend themselves and therfore deserve death!

Koran 8:67-68
"It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. You desire the lure of this world and Allah desires for you the hereafter and Allah is Mighty, Wise.. Now enjoy what you have won as lawful and good and keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is forgiving, merciful."

This verse is in reference to the prisoners that Mohammed held for ransom after the battle. Allah the "Merciful" is saying that they should all have been killed! In addition, Allah is conveniently commenting that whatever loot Mohammed has plundered is "lawful and good" because it was done in service to Allah. So murder, rape, plunder and destruction are all perfectly fine with Allah as long as they are done in the name of Islam! Mohammed is also insidiously making himself seem very kind for having spared the lives of the prisoners, when in fact he only let them live so he could get more money from the Ransom for them. In today's world this is called "Terrorism" of the worst kind.






3) Assasination of poets who criticised Mohammed's murderous ways
Date: Late March-April, 623 A.D
Place: Medinah
Victims: Two of the most famous poets of Medinah, who had the courage to criticise the murderous actions of Mohammed and his gang

After the battle of Badr, the people of Medinah were horrified that they had given refuge to such a blatant criminal and his followers in their city. Many began protesting the presence of such violent and murderous people in their city. In a free society like Pre-Islamic Arabia, the poets acted as society's conscience and were free to criticise, satirize and examine the actions of people. The two most famous poets of this kind were Abu 'Afak; an extremely old and respected poet and Asma bint Marwan; a young mother with the gift of superb verse.

Muhammad was enraged at their criticism. When he heard the verses composed by Asma Bint Marwan he was infuriated and screamed aloud, "Will no one rid me of this daughter of Marwan!" That very night a gang of Muslims set out to do the dirty deed. They broke into the poets' house. She was lying in in her bedroom suckling her newborn child, while her other small children slept nearby. The Muslims tore the newborn infant off her breast and hacked it to pieces before her very eyes. They then made her watch the murder of all four of her children, before raping and then stabbing her repeatedly to death. After the murder when the Muslims went to inform the Prophet, he said "You have done a service to Allah and his Messenger, her life was not worth even two goats!"

A month later the distinguished and highly respected Abu Afak, who was over a hundred years old and reknowned for his sense of fairness, was killed brutally in the same manner as he slept. Once again the Prophet had commented that morning "Who will avenge me on this scoundrel!"

This shows us exactly how much the tolerant and peace loving Prophet respected life. Muslims claim that Mohammed was extremely gentle and loved children. Indeed the horrifying way he had Asma Bint Marwan's five infants slaughtered certainly attests to this "loving" side of the Prophet.






4) The Siege of the Banu Qaynuqa
Date: April, 623 A.D
Place: Medinah
Victims: The Jewish Tribe of Banu Qaynuqa

In order to get full control of Medinah, Mohammed needed to get rid of all his opponents. The strongest of these opponents was Abdallah Ibn Ubayy, a powerful chief who was allied with the Jewish Tribe of Banu Qaynuqa. This tribe was also the weakest, because they were made up of craftsmen, in particular goldsmiths. By attacking them, Mohammed knew he could plunder a huge amount of wealth and weaken Ibn Ubayy. Mohammed needed an excuse to attack them so he made a girl married to one of his followers, pretend that she had been teased by the Jews. The Muslims blockaded the fort of the Banu Qaynuqa for fifteen days until the starving Jews surrendered. Immediately, the Prophet was ready to kill them all, but Ibn Ubayy seized hold of Mohammed and protested. Mohammed's face became black with rage as he shouted "Let go of me", but Ibn Ubayy was adamant and shouted back "No, by God, I will not let you go until you deal kindly with my allies. 400 men without armour and 300 with, who have always supported me against enemies. And you want to slay them all in one morning! By God, If I were in your place I would fear a reversal of fortune"

At this threat, the cowardly Mohammed turned pale, as he realised that all the people of Medinah were against him. He hit Ibn Ubayy on the face and ordered that the Jews be kicked out of their own homes. All their property was seized and looted, many of the prettiest women were taken as prisoners to become sex-slaves. Mohammed kept one-fifths of the enormous booty for himself. This is the way he repayed the kindness of the Jews of Medina, who had given him shelter and a refuge, when Mohammed had run away from Mecca in fear.

The revelations in the Eighth Sura of the Koran were clearly in reference to the Banu Qaynuqa and anyone who opposed the Muslims.

(Koran 8:55-57)
"Lo, the worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the ungrateful who will not believe."

"Those of them with whom you made a treaty and then at every opportunity they break their treaty and they keep not duty to Allah, If you come on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, so that they may remember."

Here Mohammed's acts of planned terrorism against the Jewish Tribe is justified by Allah, because according to the "Merciful" Allah, Non-Muslims are the worst of BEASTS! So it is perfectly all right to murder, rape, torture and pillage the non-believers! Not only that but Allah is advising Mohammed and the Muslims that when anyone protests against the injustices committed by Muslims, the Muslims should make sure and deal with them with such violence, that it will strike fear among anyone who may think of supporting dissent. This proves that the Koran is nothing but a political manual for controlling people with terror. Not even the fascist armies of Hitler engineered such devilish ideas.

The above are just a few of the incidents that demonstrate the intolerant and merciless nature of the inhuman acts committed by Mohammed and the Muslims. Further articles in this series will reveal more of Prophet Mohammed's heinous, sadistic and cruel crimes against humanity.
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Old 25-07-2008, 01:06 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by amethyst View Post
Jesus was/is the spotless lamb, offered up for all of mankind's "sins'
Jesus was arrested, put on trial and then executed.
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Old 25-07-2008, 07:16 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by picha View Post
I certainly can provide evidence. It really is beyond a joke how moslems can claim mohammed was peaceful when the evidence to prove otherwise can be found in their own texts.
I know orthodox moslems believe the whole world belongs to alllah and that the whole world will one day be islamic governed by islamic sharia law. That sounds like a one world government to me. It may be different to the one which the illuminati want but its still a one world government none the same.

1) Massacre of unarmed merchants during sacred month
Date: Late January(Rejeb), 623 A.D.
Place: Nakhla
Victims: 4 Merchants from Quraysh tribe of Mecca, the Tribe to which Mohammed himself belonged

Four UNARMED merchants were travelling to Mecca to sell their goods consisting of raisins, honey and animal skins. It was the holy month of Rejeb which was considered sacred for trade in Arabia. It was a point of honor that any form of warfare or violence was strictly forbidden in this month. Mohammed's gang attacked the helpless men from behind and stabbed two of them to death. They plundered all the goods as booty and Mohammed got one fifths of the share.

This shows the utter lack of morals or scruples on Mohammed's part. The Prophet of Islam did not possess a shred of pity or kindness, or the slightest sense of justice. He cold-bloodedly murdered two innocent people who had never done him any harm and did not even know him! All this was done in a month that the Prophet himself declared was a sacred month in which no warfare should take place. Mohammed was obviously motivated by nothing but hatred and greed.

Conveniently divine revelations came down from Allah that absolved him of all the guilt.

Koran 2:216
"Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that you hate a thing which is good for you and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, you knew not."

Here Mohammed is completely removing all blame from himself, for having started the fighting. The most insidious and devilish implication of this verse is that Allah is completely justifying Mohammed's murder of the innocent Meccans. Over and above this Mohammed is conveniently implying that warfare is hateful to him, but he participated in it because it was ordained by Allah! What sacrifices the "Apostle of Peace" had to make!

Koran 2:217
"They question you (O Mohammed) with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say: Warfare therein is a great transgression but to turn men from the way of Allah and to disbelive in Him and the inviolable place of worship and to expel its people thence is a greater transgression, for persecution is worse than killing"

Here Allah is clearly saying that to kill or create warfare in the sacred month of Rejeb is a very grave offence, but to justify his own violation of Allah's rules, Mohammed comes up with the idea that since the people killed were unbelievers, it was perfectly okay! The reason given for the horrific murder of the innocent Meccans, is the fact that they did not believe in Mohammed's version of God. How much more tolerant and kind could the "Great Prophet" be!






2) Slaughter of Meccans who came to defend their caravans
Date: March (Ramadan) 17, 623 A.D
Place: The well of Badr
Victims: 70 merchants from Quraysh Tribe of Mecca, The Quraysh army which came to defend them

The merchandise being carried by this caravan was worth more than 50,000 Gold Dinars. Mohammed ganged up all the criminals of Medina and set out to raid the caravan with 300 men. The Meccans got word of the raid and sent out an army to protect the caravan. Throughout the entire battle Mohammad cowered in a hut which his men made for him. There he cried and prayed with feverish anxiety. At one point he came out of the hut and threw pebbles in the enemy's direction, screaming "Let evil look on your faces!" and "By him who holds my soul in his hands, anyone who fights for me today will go to paradise!" The Muslims killed over two hundred and took seventy prisoners. All seventy of the prisoners were ransomed, and any prisoner who did not fetch a ransom had his head chopped off.

Mohammed was gratified at the sight of his murdered victims. After the battle, he sent his followers to look for the corpse of Abu Jahal, one of the Meccans who had criticised him openly. When his corpse was found,they cut off the head and threw it down at Mohammed's feet. The "Apostle of peace" cried out in delirious joy, "Rejoice! Here lies the head of the enemy of Allah! Praise Allah, for there is no other but he!" The Prophet then ordered a great pit to be dug for the bodies of the innocents to be dumped. The Muslims then proceeded to hack the corpses limbs into pieces. As the bloodied mass of bodies was being thrown into the pit, a feverishly excited Mohammed shreiked, " O People of the Pit, have you found that what Allah threatened is true now? For I have found that what my Lord promised was true! Rejoice All Muslims!" One of the prisoners taken was the defiant Al Nadr Ibn al Harith, who had earlier taken Muhammad's challenge of telling better stories than him. Muhammad ordered Ali to strike off Nadr's head in his presence, so he could watch and exult in the pleasure of beheading the man who had insulted him. Another prisoner Uqba ibn Abi Muait was decapitated in front of the Prophet. Before being killed the prisoner cried out pitifully "O Prophet, who will look after my children if I should die?" The "Great Prophet of the Religion of Peace" coldly spat out "Hellfire", as the blade came down and spattered his clothes with Uqba's blood.

This time Mohammed needed a revelation that would not only absolve him of all the guilt for murdering so many innocent people, but also give him the "divine" right to get a huge share of the plundered booty. Quite a few revelations magically appeared after the battle of Badr.

Koran 8:65
"O Prophet exhort the believers to fight. If there be of you 20 steadfast,they will overcome 200 and if there be of you a 100, they shall overcome a 1000, because the disbelievers are a folk without intelligence"

This Sura clearly exposes Islam to be a religion that not only encourages violence but actually makes it a sacred duty for Muslims to kill anyone who does not believe in the Muslim version of religion. Not only is the "All forgiving Allah" exhorting his followers to kill anyone who is not Muslim, but he is also saying that all non-Muslims are so stupid that they will be unable to defend themselves and therfore deserve death!

Koran 8:67-68
"It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. You desire the lure of this world and Allah desires for you the hereafter and Allah is Mighty, Wise.. Now enjoy what you have won as lawful and good and keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is forgiving, merciful."

This verse is in reference to the prisoners that Mohammed held for ransom after the battle. Allah the "Merciful" is saying that they should all have been killed! In addition, Allah is conveniently commenting that whatever loot Mohammed has plundered is "lawful and good" because it was done in service to Allah. So murder, rape, plunder and destruction are all perfectly fine with Allah as long as they are done in the name of Islam! Mohammed is also insidiously making himself seem very kind for having spared the lives of the prisoners, when in fact he only let them live so he could get more money from the Ransom for them. In today's world this is called "Terrorism" of the worst kind.






3) Assasination of poets who criticised Mohammed's murderous ways
Date: Late March-April, 623 A.D
Place: Medinah
Victims: Two of the most famous poets of Medinah, who had the courage to criticise the murderous actions of Mohammed and his gang

After the battle of Badr, the people of Medinah were horrified that they had given refuge to such a blatant criminal and his followers in their city. Many began protesting the presence of such violent and murderous people in their city. In a free society like Pre-Islamic Arabia, the poets acted as society's conscience and were free to criticise, satirize and examine the actions of people. The two most famous poets of this kind were Abu 'Afak; an extremely old and respected poet and Asma bint Marwan; a young mother with the gift of superb verse.

Muhammad was enraged at their criticism. When he heard the verses composed by Asma Bint Marwan he was infuriated and screamed aloud, "Will no one rid me of this daughter of Marwan!" That very night a gang of Muslims set out to do the dirty deed. They broke into the poets' house. She was lying in in her bedroom suckling her newborn child, while her other small children slept nearby. The Muslims tore the newborn infant off her breast and hacked it to pieces before her very eyes. They then made her watch the murder of all four of her children, before raping and then stabbing her repeatedly to death. After the murder when the Muslims went to inform the Prophet, he said "You have done a service to Allah and his Messenger, her life was not worth even two goats!"

A month later the distinguished and highly respected Abu Afak, who was over a hundred years old and reknowned for his sense of fairness, was killed brutally in the same manner as he slept. Once again the Prophet had commented that morning "Who will avenge me on this scoundrel!"

This shows us exactly how much the tolerant and peace loving Prophet respected life. Muslims claim that Mohammed was extremely gentle and loved children. Indeed the horrifying way he had Asma Bint Marwan's five infants slaughtered certainly attests to this "loving" side of the Prophet.






4) The Siege of the Banu Qaynuqa
Date: April, 623 A.D
Place: Medinah
Victims: The Jewish Tribe of Banu Qaynuqa

In order to get full control of Medinah, Mohammed needed to get rid of all his opponents. The strongest of these opponents was Abdallah Ibn Ubayy, a powerful chief who was allied with the Jewish Tribe of Banu Qaynuqa. This tribe was also the weakest, because they were made up of craftsmen, in particular goldsmiths. By attacking them, Mohammed knew he could plunder a huge amount of wealth and weaken Ibn Ubayy. Mohammed needed an excuse to attack them so he made a girl married to one of his followers, pretend that she had been teased by the Jews. The Muslims blockaded the fort of the Banu Qaynuqa for fifteen days until the starving Jews surrendered. Immediately, the Prophet was ready to kill them all, but Ibn Ubayy seized hold of Mohammed and protested. Mohammed's face became black with rage as he shouted "Let go of me", but Ibn Ubayy was adamant and shouted back "No, by God, I will not let you go until you deal kindly with my allies. 400 men without armour and 300 with, who have always supported me against enemies. And you want to slay them all in one morning! By God, If I were in your place I would fear a reversal of fortune"

At this threat, the cowardly Mohammed turned pale, as he realised that all the people of Medinah were against him. He hit Ibn Ubayy on the face and ordered that the Jews be kicked out of their own homes. All their property was seized and looted, many of the prettiest women were taken as prisoners to become sex-slaves. Mohammed kept one-fifths of the enormous booty for himself. This is the way he repayed the kindness of the Jews of Medina, who had given him shelter and a refuge, when Mohammed had run away from Mecca in fear.

The revelations in the Eighth Sura of the Koran were clearly in reference to the Banu Qaynuqa and anyone who opposed the Muslims.

(Koran 8:55-57)
"Lo, the worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the ungrateful who will not believe."

"Those of them with whom you made a treaty and then at every opportunity they break their treaty and they keep not duty to Allah, If you come on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, so that they may remember."

Here Mohammed's acts of planned terrorism against the Jewish Tribe is justified by Allah, because according to the "Merciful" Allah, Non-Muslims are the worst of BEASTS! So it is perfectly all right to murder, rape, torture and pillage the non-believers! Not only that but Allah is advising Mohammed and the Muslims that when anyone protests against the injustices committed by Muslims, the Muslims should make sure and deal with them with such violence, that it will strike fear among anyone who may think of supporting dissent. This proves that the Koran is nothing but a political manual for controlling people with terror. Not even the fascist armies of Hitler engineered such devilish ideas.

The above are just a few of the incidents that demonstrate the intolerant and merciless nature of the inhuman acts committed by Mohammed and the Muslims. Further articles in this series will reveal more of Prophet Mohammed's heinous, sadistic and cruel crimes against humanity.
----
i'll go through this and tell you why i disagree when i get a minute, thanks for the response though.

peace
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Old 25-07-2008, 09:13 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wearechangeyorkshire View Post
----
i'll go through this and tell you why i disagree when i get a minute, thanks for the response though.

peace
Are the incidents listed false, exaggerations, distortions, or is there some explanation for why they are acceptable?

I've heard a great deal of monstrous stories about Mohammed and the Koran itself doesn't paint a very pretty picture of the world when it comes to whether or not violence is acceptable. It seems to have a great deal of hate written within it, as does Christianity.
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Old 26-07-2008, 01:25 AM   #85
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For stelios:Numbered quotes from the Koran and the book of Sura, Koran, plus other Islamic holy texts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post
That is so totally untrue.
Mohammed was a prophet. A messenger. As such he was human like any other man. However, it is very difficult to describe someone as 'violent' who was kind and generous to all people including all animals even insects.
From 622, Mohammed spent eight years fighting with the Meccan tribes.
3:151-152 “We shall certainly strike terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved. .. and certainly Allah had made good his promise to you when you were slaying them to pieces by his permission.”

Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post
According to the Koran it is forbidden to take the life of any person unless they are a dangerous threat to you own wellbeing..
.......and with his ten thousand-odd followers, he conquered Mecca in a bloody battle.
4:89 “If they turn back, then capture them and kill them wherever you find them, and do not take anyone of them as a friend or as a helper.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post
It is also forbidden to take the life of any animal.
"....Kill those who join other gods with Allah wherever you find them; besiege them, seize them, lay in wait for them with every kind of ambush...."(Sura 9:5).
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post
including treading on ants or shooting birds unless that animal is going to be eaten for food or you are in mortal danger..
"When you encounter the unbelievers, strike off their heads, until ye have made a great slaughter among them...."(Sura 47:4).
8:60 Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies, ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post
All other taking of life and bloodshed is strictly forbidden..
"....Make war upon such of those to whom the Scriptures have been given as believe not in Allah (Sura 9:29).
8:67 It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post
So why all this talk about religion being violent and destructive?.
"Proclaim a grievious penalty to those who reject faith." (Sura 9:3).
3:12 “Say to those who disbelieve, “You shall soon be overcome and gathered together to be driven towards hell.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post
[B]Politics is violent and destructive NOT religion..
The Reasons why the soldiers of Islam fought tooth and nail. They would get Paradise in case of death in a Holy War, and booties in the case of CONQUEST. Jihad is therefore the best source of all acquisitions." ("Mishkat" II, page 406, explanatory note
2:216 “Fighting has been ordained for you.”
2:244 “Fight in the cause of Allah.”
3:12 “Say to those who disbelieve, “You shall soon be overcome and gathered together to be driven towards hell.”
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Old 26-07-2008, 02:23 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by sorath View Post
Jesus was arrested, put on trial and then executed.
Yep. He was executed by "man", for the sins of all mankind, so that the world would be reconciled back to God (established in a right relationship) thru His death (execution) and following that, His ressurrection (being raised from the dead)

And is alive now.
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Old 26-07-2008, 02:42 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amethyst View Post
Yep. He was executed by "man", for the sins of all mankind, so that the world would be reconciled back to God (established in a right relationship) thru His death (execution) and following that, His ressurrection (being raised from the dead)

And is alive now.
I think he was just saying that it's dangerous to assume that these larger abstract concepts are true, and that we need to just see what happened from a factual standpoint before we assume that what the constant manipulators of history has said is true.
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Old 26-07-2008, 05:04 PM   #88
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remember...if you cant read/speak arabic understanding and interpreting the quran is much harder. especially when there is not a direct translation for certain words.
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Old 26-07-2008, 09:50 PM   #89
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Where did you get that pic of the reppie for your avatar, mcthompson?

It's really creepy.
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Old 26-07-2008, 09:55 PM   #90
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Where did you get that pic of the reppie for your avatar, mcthompson?

It's really creepy.
That's just me, I edited the photo a long time ago using Photoshop before I knew anything about Reptilians... I just thought it looked extradimensional.
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Old 26-07-2008, 10:04 PM   #91
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That's just me, I edited the photo a long time ago using Photoshop before I knew anything about Reptilians... I just thought it looked extradimensional.
It certainly does.

The photoshopping is nice though.
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Old 27-07-2008, 07:44 PM   #92
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I just thought it looked extradimensional.
You've been watching too much Dr Who. It's a 2D picture.

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remember...if you cant read/speak arabic understanding and interpreting the quran is much harder. especially when there is not a direct translation for certain words.
So you're saying:

Quote:
"When you encounter the unbelievers, strike off their heads, until ye have made a great slaughter among them...."(Sura 47:4).
........might really mean, er...... when you encounter the unbelievers, invite them in for a nice cup of tea and piece of cake?
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Old 27-07-2008, 08:33 PM   #93
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"When you encounter the unbelievers, strike off their heads, until ye have made a great slaughter among them...."(Sura 47:4).

........might really mean, er...... when you encounter the unbelievers, invite them in for a nice cup of tea and piece of cake?
Maybe it means cut them off from their leaders who are mind-controlling them.
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Old 28-07-2008, 12:01 AM   #94
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Why not say 'their leaders' then? And 'mind control' - with nomads in the desert? Tricky.

What about the 'great slaughter' bit and all the other injunctions to 'kill the unbelievers'?

Just rhetorical metaphors?
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Old 28-07-2008, 07:37 AM   #95
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Why not say 'their leaders' then? And 'mind control' - with nomads in the desert? Tricky.

What about the 'great slaughter' bit and all the other injunctions to 'kill the unbelievers'?

Just rhetorical metaphors?
Mistranslations -
perhaps by westerners with an anti-Islamic agenda (concious or unconcious).

Listen, I'm not arguing for or against this,
just offering up a possibility.
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Old 28-07-2008, 08:04 PM   #96
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I have no doubt this being exists and has a profound impact in all our lives.
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Old 28-07-2008, 08:25 PM   #97
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I have no doubt this being exists and has a profound impact in all our lives.
You talking about Gabe?
Of course he exists.
As the arch-messenger, he's the patron of all communication.
If he didn't exist we wouldn't have the luxury of talking to one another!
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Old 29-07-2008, 04:29 PM   #98
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Mistranslations -
perhaps by westerners with an anti-Islamic agenda (concious or unconcious).
Listen, I'm not arguing for or against this,
just offering up a possibility.
Fair dues. The Koran is mainly promoted and translated by...........Moslems. And the phrases like 'kill the unbelievers', 'lie in wait for them, '[4.89] but (even) if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them'' are direct and unambiguous.

I'd really recommend having a quick browse yourself just to see the kind of language. It's not like the Bible at all: few stories, no personal descriptions, almost pathological (but this can be argued) lack of emotional sentiment, mainly a series of direct instructions and declarations like a rule book. Have a look.

The Koran, here:
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html

Last edited by cacadores; 29-07-2008 at 04:33 PM.
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Old 31-07-2008, 02:33 PM   #99
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Fair dues. The Koran is mainly promoted and translated by...........Moslems. And the phrases like 'kill the unbelievers', 'lie in wait for them, '[4.89] but (even) if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them'' are direct and unambiguous.

The Koran, here:[/COLOR][/B]
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html
Thanks, cacadores.
I've had a look and I think you have quoted out of context.
4.89 is referring to their own (ie. believers) who have known Allah and betrayed him by rejoining the violent infidels and who are thus a threat to the peaceful ones of Allah.
This is supported by 4.90-91 which is clearly referring to self-defense.

There are far more verses that speak of peaceful things rather than violent ones.
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Old 31-07-2008, 10:03 PM   #100
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You talking about Gabe?
Of course he exists.
As the arch-messenger, he's the patron of all communication.
If he didn't exist we wouldn't have the luxury of talking to one another!
Mickey is the one that gets to me. Fightin' mad angels have a way o' scaring and ol' puss to death.
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