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Old 21-07-2008, 05:07 PM   #61
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Yes, but it's so blatant, how can't people see it?

I mean I havent read koran, not intend to, I never knew it was written so in your face bullshit.
I actually have a copy of it and it is not that bad. I think what we have in the modern world are people who use it as a tool of manipluation.

The main problem for the modern person is such books were written a long times ago in different living conditions for people of a totally different mindset, simple people, not the complex people of today. Things that to us may seem ludicrous may have sounded good back then even as we change our minds as we grow. The trouble is that such religions do not grow as people do and hold on to the ancient past.
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Old 21-07-2008, 05:52 PM   #62
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I actually have a copy of it and it is not that bad. I think what we have in the modern world are people who use it as a tool of manipluation.

The main problem for the modern person is such books were written a long times ago in different living conditions for people of a totally different mindset, simple people, not the complex people of today. Things that to us may seem ludicrous may have sounded good back then even as we change our minds as we grow. The trouble is that such religions do not grow as people do and hold on to the ancient past.
Ahh yes well said.
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Old 21-07-2008, 07:39 PM   #63
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The law is ALWAYS enforced even when they go to bed.
There is a sign above my car right now that says I can't park there.
There is a law on the books that also states that I can't.
But when I get to my car there will be no ticket on it because the law is NOT ENFORCED at that spot.

Been that way for at least two years....


Similarly, there is a religious law that says "love thy neighbour as thyself."
That one's not enforced either.
It's purely voluntary.
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Old 21-07-2008, 07:45 PM   #64
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You believe in socio-politics then? You beleive systems????...
Look - i am not wrestling for to prove im right and your wrong, this is a genuine question.
I don't know what you mean when you say do I "believe" in these things.
They exist, yes.
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Old 22-07-2008, 09:25 AM   #65
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Why are those words assigned to religion, because they come from a religion, yes. BUT if a Nazi says, im hungry, i need food - do i starve because i hate a Nazi??

Well - this will never be understood unless people forget their EGO. Which still rules on this forum. So obviously. Otherwise people wouldn't be here, would they. A need to subscribe to something. conform to something. Inbility to think clearly without preconceptions.

Rick
nobody has ever said or implied that we should ignore these things JUST BECAUSE someone said it that we "don't like". no one is saying that you should rebel against basic guidelines which (i hope) every functioning human being should conform to anyway, just because it was written in a religious book. no one said, "right that's it, if jesus said it, i will NOT love my neighbour!" you're just twisting things.
hitler was a vegetarian. does that mean that i should respect him for our shared views of the treatment of animals? probably. but it doesn't, because the genocide slightly shades it. and if that means that i am "ruled by my ego", then so be it. it doesn't mean that i don't agree with his vegetarianism, just means that i would rather reach that point without crediting him.
guess we can't all forget our ego, but kudos to you!
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Old 22-07-2008, 05:35 PM   #66
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I cant believe how many people can be into the sort of stuff david talks about yet so hateful toward religion. Considering we are abused by people for holding our views or even mentioning david in a conversation for us to then criticise others in such a manner is not acceptable.

I aint trying to get at anyone with this message, im all peace yo! so check it...

alot of people all babble on about religion being violent yet their rhetoric seems to make me think they could be just as violent upholding their views against religion.

granted religion has been used to do terrible things for terrible reasons...that doesnt mean they are wrong. just corrupted, by MAN. Man being weak so in mind cannot help but corrupt things.

christianity was raped and the true message was abused...we all know this...

so was ISLAM...by the BRITISH...check out the roots of wahhabism...

If you think it makes you more righteous or peaceful to scream/swear/rant about someones beliefs you are just as bad as you claim they are.

Even worse if you know nothing of a religion have not read the texts and yet still proceed to abuse it...

Im of the opinion whatever path you take if at the end you find one creator, you have suceeded.

Look into sufism and your views on islam will change...Check out this book as a good starting point...

Golden Words Of A Sufi Sheikh

EVEN BETTER FOR YOU REPTILIAN HEADS!!! CHECK THIS...

ISLAMIC TEACHING SAYS WHEN EVIL DJINN (SPIRITS) TAKE A PHYSICAL FORM, WHICH HUMANS CAN SEE THEY TAKE THE FORM OF A SERPENT OR REPTILE!

IN FACT SO MUCH OF WHAT ICKE SAYS CAN BE SEEN AS AN INVERSION OF ISLAMIC IDEAS IT MAKES ME THINK HES A MUSLIM AND DOESNT KNOW IT..LOL...

I'll end with a quote...

“We must give peace to our brothers and sisters in each circumstance, no matter what path they go on. We must give them peace, so that difficulty does not come to them. Whether they go here, there or anywhere, we must only give them peace. Love must be our only form. Love is our path towards our brothers and sisters. Compassion must be our point of unity. This is our union. This is union with God. Our union is compassionate union on the path to God. We have come through the ages together; that is union."

M. R. Bawa Muhaiyaddeen

Peace.
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Old 22-07-2008, 07:21 PM   #67
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I hate to say this because I truly do respect all opinions, and I understand entirely where you're coming from, but religions are perversions of truth. They do endorse and encourage war and the only reason that they are not considered to do so anymore is because modern people tend to pick and choose what tenets to follow. Also, Islam in particular is not a religion of peace - Mohammed was a violent conquerer, a controller if there ever was one. The evidence of contamination by the controllers is evident in nearly every holy book across the land - most of the "laws" laid out in no way relate to the tenet of unconditional love and individuality. They encourage group think and violence against outsiders, or those who believe differently. Christ's teachings in the Bible are the only teachings that ring true to me, and by that I mean the teachings of Christ ONLY. Paul is more guilty of betrayal to Jesus than Judas is, as far as I'm concerned. The others are manipulators and controllers, creating non-sensical rules in order to dictate to massive amounts of people what the "right way" to live is. Christ lays out what the right way to live is by teaching us the laws of karma. Most of his teachings are not even in the Christian Bible. Perhaps you know of Gnostic Christianity, but if not you should look into it and read Christ's words with an open heart and an open mind. Many will claim they are written as forgeries or by demonic influences, but it's easy to measure a word up against the constant of universal love and see if they are compatible. There is a lot of truth that came from the teachers of this world: Christ, Buddha, etc. etc. etc. etc. (I really do not like Mohammed in particular, he was a conquering warlord), but those teachings have been perverted or misused or taken out of context to teach us precisely the wrong ways to live, the ways that keep us trapped here on this planet in despair, not being able to understand the truth. They reveal part of the truth, and they mix that truth with a perverted lie. I don't think it's hateful to say what one thinks of as the truth - I harbor no ill will toward any follower of any religion, nor do I think myself above anyone. I am merely relieved that I have escaped the trap that holds the soul back from development, something which I honestly feel was manufactured by evil forces.
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Old 22-07-2008, 07:51 PM   #68
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...religions are perversions of truth. They do endorse and encourage war...
This is a dangerous and false generalisation, mct.
What about Jainism?
What about the Quakers?

I would say that those who endorse and encourage war within their religions (and, yes, there are many) are pervertors of religion.

But we are off topic.
To get back on, -
Gabriel, -
and all the archangels and heavenly powers,
by their mere presence unify religions.
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Old 22-07-2008, 07:51 PM   #69
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If you view Mohammed (pbuh) as only an evil conquerer you obviously know very little about him.

Like i said b4 im all about knowledge, peace and love... but if u wanna discuss this pm me...we can debate it, exchange ideas or whatever

If not read h.montgomery watt's book on the prophet Mohammed (pbuh)

Also you mention you appreciate Jesus (pbuh) and the gnostics! Thats awesome! In the Gospel of Barnabas, Jesus (pbuh) claims on multiple occasions that the next messeneger will be the true messenger. but thats beside the point...

n.b pbuh = peace be upon him

Peace
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Old 22-07-2008, 10:57 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by phildee3 View Post
This is a dangerous and false generalisation, mct.
What about Jainism?
What about the Quakers?

I would say that those who endorse and encourage war within their religions (and, yes, there are many) are pervertors of religion.

But we are off topic.
To get back on, -
Gabriel, -
and all the archangels and heavenly powers,
by their mere presence unify religions.
They are not encouraging war within anything - the leaders of these religions, and their legions of blind followers, declare war on other religions and other ideologies by proxy of the commandments sent forth in their own Holy Books. I know how to read, and what I read in the Bible and in the Koran is not always about peace and love, but often about war and dominating.
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Old 23-07-2008, 07:41 AM   #71
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They are not encouraging war within anything -
Let me rephrase:
"I would say that those who endorse and encourage war from within their religions (and, yes, there are many) are pervertors of religion."

You pick up on an irrelevent slip of mine and ignore my point completely:

ie.
"What about Jainism?
What about the Quakers?"

Okay, some religions encourage war,
but they are worshippers of demi-gods, not the all-that-is.

To join with the all-that-is, one must obviously be tolerant, and inclusive, of all that is!
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Old 23-07-2008, 10:42 AM   #72
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hmmm.....

funny, how come I can't see anything wrong with a statement attributed to Jesus who said:

"You shall love your neighbor as yourself" (matthew 22:39)

OR

For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "You shall not covet," and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." (Romans 13:9)

What's wrong with "you shall not murder"?

I personally think it's wrong to murder.

What's wrong with "you shall not steal'?

I personally think it's wrong to steal.

What's wrong with "you shall not bear false witness"? (in other words, don't tell false lies about someone) lying about someone is wrong.

What's wrong with "you shall not commit adultery"?
Stealing someone else's mate is wrong.

It appears good advice to me.

Perhaps some on this thread, have more of a problem with false system of religion, and what others do "in the name" of "religion" than the actual teachings of that particular religion.

From what I've read, Buddah was a pretty peace loving guy and so was Jesus. Maybe Mohammed was peace loving too? (Not familiar with Mohammed)

Just seems that radical factions of all these religions, advocate extremism, but wasn't the real essence of what these teachers taught.


I can't see anything wrong with their teachings if it is advocating peace and not war and no harm to your neighbor.

There's a scripture somewhere that says the laws of God are written on men's hearts.

The further away we get from our hearts, (and our true essence) the further away we get from God.
There is not anything wrong in these messages I just question the source. Have you ever read any of the gnostic gospels? I think that they should be considered just as valid. There are some polar opposites in the gnostic verses that the all loving Jesus said. Here are a few for you.

Jesus said, "I have cast fire upon the world, and look, I'm guarding it until it blazes."

Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will bring sin upon yourselves, and if you pray, you will be condemned, and if you give to charity, you will harm your spirits.

Jesus said, "Perhaps people think that I have come to cast peace upon the world. They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war.

Jesus said, "You see the sliver in your friend's eye, but you don't see the timber in your own eye. When you take the timber out of your own eye, then you will see well enough to remove the sliver from your friend's eye."
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Old 23-07-2008, 11:55 AM   #73
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...and if you pray, you will be condemned,
This is the kind of prayer he's talking about here:

Time and time again people pray, in public (that's against Christ's teaching for starters), for the "healing of the sad divisions of the church" and yet practice extreme sectarianism.
In fact, it is the most sectarian churches that pray this!

Also, it is very wrong to pray for something to happen which you can do for yourself.
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Old 23-07-2008, 03:34 PM   #74
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In the infancy gospel of thomas Jesus (pbuh) is portrayed of having somewhat of a temper in his younger years

Click here to read some of the gospel

Obviously there is much debate as to the origins and reliability of this gospel.

Regardless of its authenticity Its quite interesting.

Also Im glad to see some more appreciative, understanding heads on this post.

Peace
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Old 23-07-2008, 04:25 PM   #75
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In the infancy gospel of thomas Jesus (pbuh) is portrayed of having somewhat of a temper in his younger years

Click here to read some of the gospel

Obviously there is much debate as to the origins and reliability of this gospel.

Regardless of its authenticity Its quite interesting.

Also Im glad to see some more appreciative, understanding heads on this post.

Peace
You can be angry, but not be in "sin" ...

...Ephesians: 4:26 "Be angry, and do not sin": do not let the sun go down on your wrath,

Well, having anger is not necessarily a bad thing...you can be angry yet not in "sin".....as according to scripture, Jesus was/is the spotless lamb, offered up for all of mankind's "sins'

As the book of Hebrews 4:15 said "For we do not have a High Priest (Jesus) who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points, tempted as we are, yet without sin.
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Old 24-07-2008, 09:39 AM   #76
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I agree with the above comment. I wasnt trying to say anything bad about Jesus (pbuh). As i've tried to make clear in here I have the greatest respect for all people and religions and Jesus (pbuh) is a great influence on myself...I really wanted to post the infancy of thomas link to make people think. Perhaps it may open their minds a bit more in terms of the comments made regarding other religions or prophets.

Thats why i suggested Watt's book on Mohammed (pbuh) too, as it explains the history of the region prior to Islam, the tribes, customs etc...as well as a detailed look at his life. Many people on here had claimed that he was a violent man, without knowing or understanding the situation in which he and islam arose fully.

Although i'm a big fan of people like Ghandi and i do to an extent agree with his view that 'the only path to peace is peace itself'. We have to realise that even if masses were for peace (which for the most part they are) evil will always exist and fight against good. A Perfect example would be the N.W.O

So then if I am to believe in a creator too, I am also going to believe that things happen for a reason. Also sometimes this creator may have to let things which make people sad or feel pain occur for the greater good.

There's a story in Islam of when Moses (pbuh) met Al-Khadir (pbuh) you can read the story by clicking here.

The basic premise most scholars/theologians would take from this is, we should not question the creators actions. The wisdom of the creator is far greater than anything we could comprehend. So sometimes acts that seem out of place are necessary to keep a balance.

I just want people to keep this in mind when considering all religions and certain sections of many of the religious texts.

Peace
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Old 24-07-2008, 02:22 PM   #77
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I agree with the above comment. I wasnt trying to say anything bad about Jesus (pbuh). As i've tried to make clear in here I have the greatest respect for all people and religions and Jesus (pbuh) is a great influence on myself...I really wanted to post the infancy of thomas link to make people think. Perhaps it may open their minds a bit more in terms of the comments made regarding other religions or prophets.

Thats why i suggested Watt's book on Mohammed (pbuh) too, as it explains the history of the region prior to Islam, the tribes, customs etc...as well as a detailed look at his life. Many people on here had claimed that he was a violent man, without knowing or understanding the situation in which he and islam arose fully.

Although i'm a big fan of people like Ghandi and i do to an extent agree with his view that 'the only path to peace is peace itself'. We have to realise that even if masses were for peace (which for the most part they are) evil will always exist and fight against good. A Perfect example would be the N.W.O

So then if I am to believe in a creator too, I am also going to believe that things happen for a reason. Also sometimes this creator may have to let things which make people sad or feel pain occur for the greater good.

There's a story in Islam of when Moses (pbuh) met Al-Khadir (pbuh) you can read the story by clicking here.

The basic premise most scholars/theologians would take from this is, we should not question the creators actions. The wisdom of the creator is far greater than anything we could comprehend. So sometimes acts that seem out of place are necessary to keep a balance.

I just want people to keep this in mind when considering all religions and certain sections of many of the religious texts.

Peace
Mohammeds violent acts had nothing to do with the situation in which islam arose and everything to do with satisfying his own selfish desires.
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Old 24-07-2008, 03:06 PM   #78
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I'd like to see you provide evidence to back up your claims...i doubt that you can though.

I came to this forum with just peace and love...as a huge fan of david...i was looking to find like minded heads...seems to be a lot of hate on here though...

What happened to infinite love?

Peace
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Old 24-07-2008, 03:11 PM   #79
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I came to this forum with just peace and love...as a huge fan of david...i was looking to find like minded heads...seems to be a lot of hate on here though...

What happened to infinite love?
Oh, these folks come and go.
They tend to disappear after a while, thank G-d.

Stick around, my friend.
Your posts are valued and much appreciated...
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Old 24-07-2008, 03:34 PM   #80
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Thanks phildee3, you've put a smile on my face
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