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Old 18-04-2012, 04:39 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
Lipton has actually described the mind as the government of the cells in the body if I remember correctly.
Lipton is wrong on this too.
The mind is not the government
He is an usurper, the squatter.

The mind can not control the functions of
most organs and functions in the body.
The only function the mind has SOME control over
is breathing and even that is not a complete control.
We can hold our breath just for a certain period.

Thinking somehow is related to breathing
hence the control.
When we hold our breath, thinking is subdued.

Last edited by plam; 18-04-2012 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 18-04-2012, 04:51 PM   #42
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"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift."
a quote from einstein

I dont think anyone is disagreeing with the observation that we as people and society give too much importance to mind
but to find balance you must inhabit both body and mind
there is a brain gut axis. there are neuroreceptors in your intestine transmitting signals to your brain so it can feedback appropriately.
I'm beginning to think your really good at holding your breath
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Old 18-04-2012, 05:01 PM   #43
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The mind is the interface between the outside world and the inner world of the body. As an example, when someone is worried about his or her personal finances, then that worry is good. The worry is a warning signal indicating that something is out of balance.

The problem comes when the warning signal is interpreted incorrectly, ignored or deliberately being numbed out. An analogy for that is when a warning signal starts flashing on the dashboard in a car and instead of checking what the problem is the driver ignores the signal or even worse plasters a sticker over the flashing light so that it no longer is a disturbance.

By changing the beliefs in the mind warning signals like worry can be interpreted correctly and instead of causing suffering it leads to improved health.
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Old 18-04-2012, 05:05 PM   #44
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The mind is the interface between the outside world and the inner world of the body. As an example, when someone is worried about his or her personal finances, then that worry is good. The worry is a warning signal indicating that something is out of balance.

The problem comes when the warning signal is interpreted incorrectly, ignored or deliberately being numbed out. An analogy for that is when a warning signal starts flashing on the dashboard in a car and instead of checking what the problem is the driver ignores the signal or even worse plasters a sticker over the flashing light so that it no longer is a disturbance.

By changing the beliefs in the mind warning signals like worry can be interpreted correctly and instead of causing suffering it leads to improved health.
exactly
and if someone can chage their mind enough then the worry will just come and go and abundant health is more likely
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Old 18-04-2012, 05:07 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by unicorny View Post
Quote:
"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift."
a quote from einstein

I dont think anyone is disagreeing with the observation that we as people and society give too much importance to mind
but to find balance you must inhabit both body and mind
there is a brain gut axis. there are neuroreceptors in your intestine transmitting signals to your brain so it can feedback appropriately.
I'm beginning to think your really good at holding your breath
Yes, there are neurons in the guts and also in the heart. Notice how fuzzy the concept of intuition is. A better connection to the heart and the guts will no doubt be beneficial.
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Old 18-04-2012, 05:10 PM   #46
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exactly
and if someone can chage their mind enough then the worry will just come and go and abundant health is more likely
Yes, worry can return, but then that would be another warning signal. Just like in a car functioning well, there are no warning signals flashing, yet the car is prepared to activate warning signals when something goes wrong. Similarly, the worry only pops up when the mind has wrong interpretations (beliefs) that need to be fixed.

Last edited by anders lindman; 18-04-2012 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 18-04-2012, 05:17 PM   #47
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Lipton is on the wrong path.

The mind's intelligence and the body's intelligence are usually in conflict
because the mind is the squatter in this body.

Breathing is somehow connect to thinking
that's why we have a partial control over it.
But there's no subconsciousness or mind that controls it.

Nothing compares to the innate intelligence of this body
The body is born with it and it knows how to survive from day one.

The body's intelligence controls the whole organism
The individual cells are individual bodies in their own way
The cells have figured that by cooperation they can survive better
and formed multiple cells organisms

The complex interaction between the cells is what creates
the intelligence of the body, quite similar to the way the brain works.

The mind or the (sub)consciousness is a later product of society.

The mind is born out of a neurological defect in the brain.
I'm not sure how it all started but it wasn't always like that.
The mind is constantly interfering with the functions of the body
as it is constantly worried that when this body form expires the mind will die.

The body is not afraid of changing its form (death)
as its main goal is to reproduce not to live longer.
The body does not even care for food coming from outside
After only a couple of days the hunger tantrum go away
and the body starts eating itself.

Health is the battle between body and mind.
In my opinion utter nonsense.

The old materialist paradigm.

Thank God it is dying!
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Old 18-04-2012, 05:17 PM   #48
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The whole idea that YOU (the mind)
can do something positive for the body is illusion.
I disagree again. Learning to interpret things like signs of stress correctly will be beneficial for the health.
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Old 18-04-2012, 05:21 PM   #49
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Yes, there are neurons in the guts and also in the heart. Notice how fuzzy the concept of intuition is. A better connection to the heart and the guts will no doubt be beneficial.
I think the connection is just fine but it's the awareness/acknowledgement that can be lacking and that's where making your mind more still comes in, we can respect it's pressence but not be ruled by it.
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Old 18-04-2012, 05:22 PM   #50
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Feeling good and improving health through external means such as nutrition, physical exercise or even with medicine is certainly possible. However, the belief that the body can improve itself without such external means is usually absent in people. Therefore, changing that belief may improve health. And that can be done in addition to external means for improving health. It's both/and rather than either/or.
Yes, I agree totally.

And thanks for a great thread.

We all totally underestimate the power of belief.

And of course the biggest problem is that no money is spent on researching this.

The drug companies spend billions on medicines - but nothing on this
side of medicine.

But you can see why. The body probably has the potential to produce
any drug or medicine it requires??
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Old 18-04-2012, 05:25 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
Yes, worry can return, but then that would be another warning signal. Just like in a car functioning well, there are no warning signals flashing, yet the car is prepared to activate warning signals when something goes wrong. Similarly, the worry only pops up when the mind has wrong interpretations (beliefs) that need to be fixed.
So you think the mind knows what to do?

Just check how many different concepts about eating there are out there.
And they keep changing and will keep changing.
One mans food is another mans poison.
How's the mind supposed to know
when the mind operates on outside knowledge.
The body is born with the knowledge.
The mind acquires it afterwards
and keeps acquiring it till the end.

The mind is never sure!
Remember that!

Sorry Lindman, Lipton's theory is just
mental exercise - nothing more to it.
I call it plain and simple - wanking!

Does he even have any practical solutions at all?

Last edited by plam; 18-04-2012 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 18-04-2012, 05:26 PM   #52
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Yup you cant patent thoughts

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Old 18-04-2012, 05:27 PM   #53
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This in other words says, that we should listen to the body
The mind is a weird thing, it has to keep occupied all the time
so interferes a lot with the natural functioning of the body.

The body is born with ALL the knowledge it needs to survive
and all the knowledge to fight ANY disease.

So Lipton's ideas are interesting and run parallel to mine
but essentially he misses the point.

The mind is a squatter in this body
The more you "exercise" it, the more power you give to the squatter.
Ths is the classic dualism.

There is not mind and body. We have just been indocrinated into that
belief.

There is just consciousness - energy - and the body is another expression
of that consciousness.
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Old 18-04-2012, 05:30 PM   #54
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Science has shown that psychological stress, such as worry about money, activates a primitive biological fight-or-flight response in the body. The body doesn't of course need to physically fight or run away from the financial problem using muscles in the body yet the mind reacts as if that is what is needed.

The psychological activation of the physical fight-or-flight response is an incorrect response of the mind. There seems not be any scientific research showing that it's possible to alter that false response of the mind.

A hypothesis that can be made is that it is possible to correct the incorrect fight-or-flight response. Then by using the scientific method this hypothesis can be tested. And it can be tested without the need for advanced scientific instruments. Any person can him- or herself do experiments testing this hypothesis.
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Old 18-04-2012, 05:30 PM   #55
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There is just consciousness - energy - and the body is another expression of that consciousness.
If you belief in that, you must believe in incarnation
Where does that energy go?

Please don't tell me!
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Old 18-04-2012, 05:31 PM   #56
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It can and it does, but it's an illusion to believe
that you can change the direction of
the mind towards a better health
because the mind should not interfere
with the body's functions in the first place.

The whole idea that YOU (the mind)
can do something positive for the body is illusion.
It serves only the purpose of reinforcing the power of mind.

Your only responsibility is the provide food
basic thermal units
(BTUs).
The body can handle whatever is “put in there”
and turn it into the energy it needs to function.

The body does not even care for food
After a couple of days the hunger tantrum disappear
and then the body starts to exhaust its own resources.
This only show how unimportant the mind is
for the functioning of the body.
COMPLETE nonsense.

By changing the different levels of consciousness that a person can
experience, we are now beginni9ng to control what drugs the body
produces and releases into it's system.
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Old 18-04-2012, 05:32 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by plam View Post
So you think the mind knows what to do?

Just check how many different concepts about eating there are out there.
And they keep changing and will keep changing.
One mans food is another mans poison.
How's the mind supposed to know
when the mind operates on outside knowledge.
The body is born with the knowledge.
The mind acquires it afterwards
and keeps acquiring it till the end.

Sorry Lindman, Lipton's theory is just
mental exercise - nothing more to it.
I call it plain and simple - wanking!

Does he even have any practical solutions at all?
your argument seems to be that we only need yin without yang
the mind doesn't operate on solely outside knowledge it could be viewed as an interface between between external and internal cues. the mind is a servant but we let it be a master we train it what cues are important and what to focus on but our training is based on society and so like our external view of the world it just needs reprogramming
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Old 18-04-2012, 05:32 PM   #58
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I think the connection is just fine but it's the awareness/acknowledgement that can be lacking and that's where making your mind more still comes in, we can respect it's pressence but not be ruled by it.
I'm not so sure that the connection is fine. There may be actual blocks and atrophies of the nervous system making the connection to the heart and the guts dysfunctional.
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Old 18-04-2012, 05:35 PM   #59
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If you belief in that, you must believe in incarnation
Where does that energy go?

Please don't tell me!
Hey that's just basic physics

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Old 18-04-2012, 05:36 PM   #60
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I'm not so sure that the connection is fine. There may be actual blocks and atrophies of the nervous system making the connection to the heart and the guts dysfunctional.
perhaps in some people yes
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