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Old 29-01-2011, 01:13 AM   #1
opas23
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Default Enlightenment...what is it?

These words are not truth and may be read as lies pointing away from themselves towards no achievement or discovery of anything special with regard any possible meaning or purpose for the one who seeks enlightened answers along any imagined time~line or path of purification.

With that caveat in mind, it would seem highly advisable to not read any further if you are a seeker of anything called the truth which does not already include what has commonly come to be called a down right lie!

The word 'enlightenment' (insert favourite word) has come to be apparently recognised as the ultimate achievement of many ardent seekers and practitioners of technique who work very hard and put great effort into someday realising an idea they think might happen in a certain preconceived way.

How else can this 'enlightenment' be recognised if I don't know what it may be before hand and may miss it when it comes without the initial idea.

If there is no experience of the object desired then all that can be done about that is a good guess at best.

This preconceived guess, in a lot of seekers can help towards missing something which may be essentially and immediately simple.

But even simplicity can appear as quite complicated to a mind which is searching for an idea or projected expectation of what is thought to be eventually achieved.

The result may be an overlooking or oversight of who exactly it is which is looking in the first place!

Could the seeker already and simply, be enlightenment in action to start with?

If enlightenment is whole and complete, then doesn't that also include everything which is occurring ie the search?

If enlightenment is everything then it is inclusive rather than exclusive of everything that is.

Is the whole point of the 'dance' to get to the last step as soon as possible?

Being inclusive, enlightenment already includes all that is, which obviously incorporates the apparent loosing and inevitable searching.

Because completeness is already whole and only appears as fragmented and seemingly unconnected parts, does this not imply that even our worst nightmares and the world's most evil personages are also enlightenment in action?

When realisation happens, everything falls 'slap bang' right into place here and now within what ever is occurring and wholeness isn't judging or deciding who has worked hard enough or earned their place to simply be.

Being everything is obviously inclusive of being absolutely and utterly nothing.

When what is called 'enlightenment' is seen and experienced as absolutely all of it, then no one need search for what they already are unless wholeness enjoys looking for itself in a grand old game of hide and seek where it pretends to be a lost individual apparently searching for themselves.

This understanding seems to frighten some seekers into searching even harder because this apparent understanding is too simple and is no justification and pay back for all the years of hard work and good deeds etc.

But ofcourse, enlightenment, being everything, would love the experience of trying to find itself in the apparent appearance of a separate seeker trying to find what is believed to not already be here.

So in one sense, nothing changes.

In another sense, it's simplicity is constantly overlooked in favour of a seeker's best guess.

Which, funnily enough, and as already stated...is also it!

In~joy,

Opas23.
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How many of the ways (disciplines, exercises, practices) recommended as helpful, or even necessary, for the attainment of Satori are not in fact consequences of that state erroneously suggested as means? Wei Wu Wei
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Old 29-01-2011, 09:54 AM   #2
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Enlightenment:

You nailed it, opas, simplicity and satisfaction come close to what I've experienced.

Being in the moment - No 1 for me.

Shaving a length of wood.

Sharing happiness with someone.

Being happy within.

Writing and feeling satisfied at the message, a simple message.

Wishing everyone well, even those who are mentally ill and claim rights over you.

Knowing that every day above ground means it's going to be a good day.

The sun on my face.

The singing of birds.

The pursuit of knowledge for the sake of just knowing.

Laughter, mine and others.

These are some of the things that bring me to me.
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Old 29-01-2011, 10:41 AM   #3
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The ''search'' is the very thing that stops you from being enlightened.
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Old 29-01-2011, 11:35 AM   #4
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Enlightenment...what is it?
Enlightenment is for me activation of energy centars , being able to handle them all, activation of glands , for example of the pineal gland which brings Brain Hemisphere Synchronization , going further up connecting yourself to the world soul, and finally universal soul,universal consciousness.

Being in understanding with the universe (yourself).

But im usually wrong.

This is Enlightenment from my point of view. xD

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Old 29-01-2011, 01:37 PM   #5
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We are supposed to be living in the "age of enlightenment"


Historian Peter Gay asserts the Enlightenment broke through "the sacred circle,"[9] whose dogma had circumscribed thinking. The Sacred Circle is a term used by Peter Gay to describe the interdependent relationship between the hereditary aristocracy, the leaders of the church and the text of the Bible. This interrelationship manifests itself as kings invoking the doctrine "Divine Right of Kings" to rule. Thus church sanctioned the rule of the king and the king defended the church in return.

The Enlightenment is held to be the source of critical ideas, such as the centrality of freedom, democracy, and reason as primary values of society. This view argues that the establishment of a contractual basis of rights would lead to the market mechanism and capitalism, the scientific method, religious tolerance, and the organization of states into self-governing republics through democratic means. In this view, the tendency of the philosophes in particular to apply rationality to every problem is considered the essential change.


Historians have recently been debating the extent to which Freemasonry was part of, or even a main factor in the Enlightenment. On the one hand, historians agree that the famous leaders of the Enlightenment included Freemasons such as Montesquieu, Voltaire, Pope, Horace Walpole, Sir Robert Walpole, Mozart, Goethe, Frederick the Great, Benjamin Franklin, and George Washington.[71] On the other side, historians such as Robert Roswell Palmer concluded that even in France, Masons were politically "innocuous if not ridiculous" and did not act as a group.[72] American historians, while noting that Benjamin Franklin and George Washington were indeed active Masons, have downplayed the importance of Freemasonry in the era of the American Revolution because the movement was non-political and included both Patriots and their enemy the Loyalists.[73] Regarding the movement's influence on the European contintent, German historian Reinhart Koselleck claimed that "On the Continent there were two social structures that left a decisive imprint on the Age of Enlightenment: the Republic of Letters and the Masonic lodges.",[74] while professor at University of Glasgow Thomas Munck argues that "although the Masons did promote international and cross-social contacts which were essentially non-religious and broadly in agreement with enlightened values, they can hardly be described as a major radical or reformist network in their own right."[


Some interesting snippets from a wikipedia article

SOURCE:
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Old 29-01-2011, 04:25 PM   #6
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The ''search'' is the very thing that stops you from being enlightened.
+1
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Old 29-01-2011, 04:32 PM   #7
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somebody else shinning a tourch.....what you and see and do.......?
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Old 30-01-2011, 08:17 PM   #8
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Real live ET talking about Enlightenment!


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How many of the ways (disciplines, exercises, practices) recommended as helpful, or even necessary, for the attainment of Satori are not in fact consequences of that state erroneously suggested as means? Wei Wu Wei
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Old 30-01-2011, 09:01 PM   #9
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The ''search'' is the very thing that stops you from being enlightened.
+2

Zen teachers remind students that if you think you're enlightened you're not.
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Old 30-01-2011, 09:43 PM   #10
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Default The Search As Prevention.

This whole idea that the search seems to prevent what is sought, whilst appearing as very true, is also very false, in that: there is nothing in the way of anything else, as wholeness is already complete.

So from the appearing separate perspective, there is a search for a goal to cease the searching, which seems to be short circuiting this 'event' happening by the very act of the searching itself.

And from a non~perspective, which is completely impersonal, and happens regardless of the appearing separate perspective, there is only what is, as it is...regardless of the appearance of any apparent obstructing.

It is already complete.

In~joy!
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Old 31-01-2011, 01:56 PM   #11
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While i recognize the value at the core of these ideas/ thoughts, im going to have to be respectfully disagree because i 'believe' the very thing that validates our world is actually a degree of separation. Finding it hard to put it more clearly as language is limiting.
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Old 31-01-2011, 04:51 PM   #12
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...i 'believe' the very thing that validates our world is actually a degree of separation.
Hello truepositive,

That's a great a point you brought up.

It seems so convincing that when I'm doing, seeing, talking, breathing, thinking, deciding and acting out the effects of causes in the world out there, that I am a separate individual with choice and free will y'know.

But alas, that is only a narrated story in consciousness.

Is it the actuality of raw and vibrant, felt presence?

Is everything which is dualistically narrated in awareness the very thing it represents?

Is the thought, "I am an individual who is typing this right now" the actual felt sensation of keys under some fingers?

It is only convincing when a belief in a story happens.

But is the belief the actuality?

This simplicity is happening all the time(?) all at once, and the fictional character in awareness which is a narrated sound only is not sentient.

Geat game though innit!

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Old 01-02-2011, 01:15 AM   #13
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As per usual thanks for that enlightening (pun intended ) post, which is as ive come to expect from you slightly cryptic but very meaningful. I feel as if were both at a point in this situation where language is getting limiting but i think i 'get it'.

Now it comes down to the question whether our universe 'is dual, or not' and what limits are actually in place of the grand scheme of all things that are. That one is too big for me to talk about at this point in 'time'.

In a sense, the apparent truth of what you said is showed by one of my initial mental reactions to this thread, which was to partially discredit myself because im showing lack of restraint right now, smoking a cigarette and drinking a beer which is vile according to loads of 'spiritual masters'.

I realize at the core i may be denying what i actually think is the gist of what you have been saying all along here, just by the way im replying to your latest post, but i feel im not quite yet ready to get into 'that mindset' which is probably once again, confirming what i have JUST said

The core problem for me is the disparity between intellectual grasp of things, and actual understanding, which i feel is something not limited to just me.

In any case, as usual interesting to be on one of 'your' threads
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Old 03-02-2011, 10:55 AM   #14
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http://oceanofmind.tumblr.com/

“ Spiritual love is different. This unity is beautiful, even more inexpressibly beautiful than the beginning of love. The beauty and peace of this unity in love remains forever and ever. Love of this kind never dries up or diminishes. Always alive, both within and without, it is constant, and each moment you live in love. Love will swallow you up, eat you up completely until there is no ‘you,’ only Love. Your whole being will be transformed into Love. Spiritual love culminates in unity, in oneness. Sometimes a relationship between two people, if it is pure, can reach that union…
— Amritanandamayi Ma

“ In the midst of movement and chaos, keep stillness inside of you. Nothing is more important than reconnecting with your bliss. Nothing is as rich. Nothing is more real. Every person is a God in embryo. Its only desire is to be born.
— Deepak Chopra

When the time comes that nothing goes forth from you other than that which you would be glad to have return, then you will have reached your heaven.
— Ernest Holmes

“You are a volume in the divine book. A mirror to the power that created the universe. Whatever you want, ask it of yourself. Whatever you’re looking for can only be found inside of you.”
— Jalal Uddin Rumi

“ By spending time daily in meditation, we can discover the power of our soul, enriching our lives with wisdom, immortality, love, fearlessness, connectedness and bliss.
— Sant Rajinder Singh

“ In truth, everyone is a shadow of the Beloved – Our seeking is His seeking, Our words are His words. At times we flow toward the Beloved like a dancing stream. At times we are still water held in His pitcher. At times we boil in a pot turning to vapor – that is the job of the Beloved. He breathes into my ear until my soul takes on His fragrance. He is the soul of my soul.
— Rumi

“ I am through with everything but you. I am dying into your mystery, and dying, I am now no other than that mystery. I open to your majesty as an orchard welcomes rain, and twenty times that. I am rejoicing. I am a beggar given gold with no giver in sight.
— Rumi

“ In one drop of water are found all the secrets of all the oceans.
— Kahlil Gibran

“ If an iota of your inner Sun became manifest, it would sweep the Galaxy right off the celestial sphere.
— Rumi

“ The energy of the cosmos is surrounding you. All that is needed is a certain emptiness in you. So the emptiness is good; don’t fill it by beliefs, don’t fill it again by another kind of god, another philosophy, some existentialism. Don’t fill it. Leave it clean and fresh, and go deeper. Soon you will find from both sides, from outside and inside, a tremendous rush of energy, a tremendous rush of consciousness. Then you disappear, you are almost flooded with the cosmos. You are so small and the cosmos is so vast. You suddenly disappear into it, and that disappearance is the ultimate experience of enlightenment. Then you know you were neither an outsider, nor an insider; you are one with existence. Other than oneness with existence, nothing is going to help you. But that oneness is so easy, so obvious. Just a little relaxation, just a little turning in — not much effort, not much discipline, not much torture for yourself.
— Osho

“When you begin to understand Law of Attraction, and you understand that which is like unto itself is drawn, then it is easier and easier to understand that you are offering a signal, and the entire Universe responds. And when you finally get that, and you begin to exercise some deliberate control about the signal that you offer, then it really begins to be fun, because then you recognize that nothing happens outside of your creative control. There are no things that happen by chance or by circumstance. There is nothing that is happening because of something you vibrated a long time ago or in a past life. It is not about what you were born into. It is only about what you are, right now, in this red hot fresh moment emitting.”
— Esther Hicks

“ If you don’t know where you’re going, you might end up somewhere else.
— Casey Stengel

“ I existed from all eternity and, behold, I am here; and I shall exist till the end of time, for my being has no end.
— Khalil Gibran

The best years of your life are the ones in which you decide your problems are your own. You do not blame them on your mother, the ecology, or the president. You realize that you control your own destiny.
— Albert Ellis

“ Just finding that “I am nobody”… and that’s how existence is. What is a marigold flower? What is a rose? They are both nobodies. And we belong with them. Once this settles in you, the idea of nobodiness, silence starts descending on you. There is no idea, no picture — no Jesus Christ, no Krishna, no Buddha: You are utterly empty. And in this emptiness is the light. In this emptiness is enlightenment.
— Osho

“Man should be like a hollow bamboo, so that existence can pass through him. Man should be like a porous sponge — not hard — so that the doors and the windows of his being are open, and existence can pass from one end to another without any hindrance; in fact, finding no one inside. The winds blow — they come in from one window and they go out from another window of his being. This emptiness is the highest bliss possible. But you are like a hard, unporous rock, or like a hard steel rod. Nothing passes through you. You resist everything. You don’t allow. You go on fighting on all sides and in all directions as if you are in a great war with existence. There is no war going on, you are simply befooled by yourself. Nobody is there to destroy you. The whole supports you; the whole is the very earth on which you are standing, the very sky in which you breathe, you live. In fact, you are not — only the whole is. When one understands this, by and by one drops the inner hardness, there is no need for it. There is no enmity, the whole is friendly towards you. The whole cherishes you, loves you. Otherwise, why are you here? The whole brings you forth, like a tree is brought forth by the earth. The whole would like to participate in all your blessings, in all the celebrations that are possible. When you flower, the whole will flower through you; when you sing, the whole will sing through you; when you dance, the whole will dance with you. You are not separate.

Once you understand this, meditation becomes possible. Once you understand this, you relax. You throw off all the armour that you have created around you as a security. You are no longer afraid. Fear disappears and love arises. In this state of love, emptiness happens. Or, if you can allow emptiness to happen, love will flower in it. Love is a flower of emptiness, total emptiness — emptiness is the situation. It can work both ways.”
— Osho

“ A really wise man is feminine, receptive, passive. That’s why Buddha looks so feminine. That quality of passiveness, that quality of receptivity… He is just a receptacle. He reflects life: he allows life to reflect in him, to be reflected through him. He sings the song that existence wants to sing through him. He has no ideas of his own; he does not hinder.
— Osho

“ When you listen, you become just a passage, a passivity, a receptivity, a womb: you become feminine. And to arrive one has to become feminine. You cannot reach God as aggressive invaders, conquerors. You can reach God only… or it will be better: God can reach you only when you are receptive, a feminine receptivity. When you become yin, a receptivity, the door is open. And you wait.
— Osho

“ Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible.
— Dalai Lama

“ The wind blowing through your hair, the warm sun on your face, the cool ground beneath your bare feet, the heavenly rains against your skin, a sunrise, a sunset, a flower, a beautiful song. Simplicity at its best, beauty at its most. Take it in and realize just how wealthy we all are.
— Christina Galavizo

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is never putting it into a fruit salad.
— Janet Swerdlow

“ Your vision will become clear only when you look into your heart… Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside, awakens.
— Carl Jung

“ Every problem has in it the seeds of its own solution. If you don’t have any problems, you don’t get any seeds.
— Norman Vincent Peale

“ When ego is lost, limit is lost. You become infinite, kind, beautiful.
— Yogi Bhajan

“ No Buddhist, no Christian, no Hindu. Deeply religious people have no religion. They belong to no seat, theirs is the religion of the heart!
— Yogaswami of Jaffna

“ When birds fall from the sky and the animals are dying, a new tribe of people shall come unto the earth from many colors, classes, creeds, who by their actions and deeds shall make the earth green again. They will be known as the warriors of the Rainbow.
— Hopi prophecy

“ I appreciate all that I am and all that I have. Stop focusing on what you do not have, and shift your consciousness to an appreciation for all that you do have.
— Wayne Dyer


“A person who does not meditate does not know how to expand his consciousness.

He has narrow vision as if he is looking through a window, but when he learns to expand his consciousness, it is like going through a door.

It is exactly as if one were looking through a small window in a house. From the window his view is very limited, but when he goes out of the house, he has a much wider view. When he goes to the roof, he can see even more clearly.

As one’s consciousness expands, his vision becomes clearer, and he understands things as they are.”
— Swami Rama

“ Peace is absence of disturbance. The disturbance is due to the arising of thoughts in the individual, which is only the ego rising up from pure consciousness. To bring about peace means to be free from thoughts and to abide as pure consciousness.
— Ramana Maharshi

“ True wealth is the ability to let go of your possessions.
— Yogi Bhajan

“ Intentions compressed into words enfold magical power.
— Deepak Chopra

“ In my vertigo, in my dizziness, in my drunken haze,
whirling and dancing like a spinning wheel,
I saw myself as the source of existence,
I was there at the beginning and I was the spirit of love.
— Rumi


The Balance Affirmation

There is no possession, there is only passion.

There are no accidents, there is only experience.

There is no polarity, there is only balance.

There is no uncertainty, there is only knowledge.

There is no involvement, there is only observation.

There is no judgement, there is only serenity.

There is no identity, there is only the I AM.

There is no death, there is only the infinite.
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Old 03-02-2011, 04:02 PM   #15
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Well, I can tell you what it isn't. Writing a post of about 10.000.000 words in a vain attempt trying to explain it. Or posting about 10.000.000 quotes of New Age hippies trying to explain it.

You can only see the bottom of a lake when the water is absolutely still and no mud is being stirred.

Your pool is about as muddy as it can get, your water unruly like a storming ocean.

Be still!
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Old 04-02-2011, 01:55 AM   #16
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To me it is just energy.

Kind of like having all sorts of unconnected info floating around in your subconscious, and in one moment you get a supercharge of energy through the top of your head that takes all random thoughts and fits it all into one huge coherent picture.

At least that's my experience. Hair on top of my head began to vibrate. Then headache that lasted a week. The whole time its like anything I considered would plug right in to a bigger picture I couldn't see before. That is when I saw how screwed I was living in this society.

So yeah, I think it is just an energy gift that sends more current through the conduits of the brain.
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Old 04-02-2011, 02:43 AM   #17
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Good additions all in their own way. 'i like' to think the way it works is just a little bit different for everyone
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Old 23-01-2013, 03:55 PM   #18
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A shameless 'bump' back into the presence of what appears as now.
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How many of the ways (disciplines, exercises, practices) recommended as helpful, or even necessary, for the attainment of Satori are not in fact consequences of that state erroneously suggested as means? Wei Wu Wei
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Old 23-01-2013, 03:58 PM   #19
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Enlightenment's BS
This lad has it about right and gets a nice living from it too....

http://www.holybooks.com/wp-content/...ony-Parson.pdf

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Old 23-01-2013, 04:05 PM   #20
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Enlightenment's BS
This lad has it about right and gets a nice living from it too....

http://www.holybooks.com/wp-content/...ony-Parson.pdf
An excellent book indeed from Grandpa Tony.

Have you read the other version of it with the interviews near the back?

Mint!
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