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Old 18-08-2017, 08:56 PM   #41
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Perception, I wouldn't listen too much to wave. If you read every one of his Masonic posts you won't find a single one that admits there is good in freemasonry. All you will find is distorted views, outright lies, manipulation and fear mongering. A wise person looks from all angles but the rabid fanatic only seeks to scare people into their viewpoint.
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Old 18-08-2017, 09:21 PM   #42
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The ss didn't take obligations of good behaviour did they. What a silly comparison
err i think they both swore oaths to their order no?

yes
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Old 18-08-2017, 09:22 PM   #43
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Perception, I wouldn't listen too much to wave. If you read every one of his Masonic posts you won't find a single one that admits there is good in freemasonry. All you will find is distorted views, outright lies, manipulation and fear mongering. A wise person looks from all angles but the rabid fanatic only seeks to scare people into their viewpoint.
that's a very general smear

so what part of what i've said is not true?
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Old 18-08-2017, 09:23 PM   #44
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I think one is ksigmason or something like that
yeah he's ex military intelligence (or current..i'm not sure)

way to go putting people on to military intelligence just me....you're doing such a great job of fighting our enslavement under the NWO and its military industrial complex!
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Old 18-08-2017, 09:31 PM   #45
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yeah he's ex military intelligence (or current..i'm not sure)

way to go putting people on to military intelligence just me....you're doing such a great job of fighting our enslavement under the NWO and its military industrial complex!
Lol back to trying to frighten people. Let him make his own mind up after talking to people rather than trying to add him to your flock of fear
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Old 18-08-2017, 09:33 PM   #46
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Lol back to trying to frighten people. Let him make his own mind up after talking to people rather than trying to add him to your flock of fear
or i could equip him with information

whether the world is a scary place or not is not upto me

how i deal with the reality of that is upto me
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Old 18-08-2017, 09:38 PM   #47
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or i could equip him with information

whether the world is a scary place or not is not upto me

how i deal with the reality of that is upto me
Let him find out by unbiased study rather than trying to brainwash him into thinking his family are part of some freaky conspiracy. You are trying to control his information sources which shows you have agenda to scare people about freemasonry.

Why do you hate it so much? When you were the union man at work were your bosses freemasons and you hated them? Did you try to join and get black balled so want revenge? Your sort of hatred is personal rather than something you got through study.
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Old 18-08-2017, 09:49 PM   #48
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Let him find out by unbiased study rather than trying to brainwash him into thinking his family are part of some freaky conspiracy. You are trying to control his information sources which shows you have agenda to scare people about freemasonry.

Why do you hate it so much? When you were the union man at work were your bosses freemasons and you hated them? Did you try to join and get black balled so want revenge? Your sort of hatred is personal rather than something you got through study.
no i have not tried to join and have no issues of revenge

i didn't develop political views as a result of union action. I joined a union because i already had political views!

So you are barking up the wrong tree there

I am sharing this information not because i have any agenda....i am sharing it passionately because i believe it to be true

can you get your head around that? that someone might actually say something because they believe it to be true...i know its a novel thing these days but there it is

if you do not think it is true then challenge the information and we can debate it out and that way anyone reading can study the information and make their own mind up
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Old 18-08-2017, 10:16 PM   #49
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Ok so there is a big issue of trust in these online discussions. two different viewpoints so who to trust?

justme has accused me of being unfair to freemasonry because i am aggrieved at it but i have no aggrievement with freemasonry because i have had no dealings with it!

And that's important...because i HAVE SWORN NO OATHS and am not bound by any obligation to any order. I am a free and independent truth seeker sharing what i have learned

What is more likely is that justme IS a sworn member of an order and is therefore protecting that above the truth

So to support what i said earlier about the purpose of freemasonic initiation being to alter consciousness (which all people reading this with knowledge of the occult KNOW to be true) i'm going to quote from a famous author on the qabalah dion fortune

Perhaps justme will claim to possess a superior grasp of the subject matter then dion or perhaps he'll find some other way to try and deflect this away from freemasonry and yet all you have to do is decide for yourself who is telling the truth

''A ritual initiation is the act of linking the microcosmic sephirah, the chakra, with the macrocosmic sephirah; it is the introduction of a newcomer to the sphere by those who are already there. They construct a symbolic representation of the sphere on the physical plane in the furniture of the temple; they construct an astral replica of it by concentrated imagination; and by means of invocation they call down into this temple not made by hands the forces of the sphere of the sephirah they are working upon
These forces stimulate the corresponding chakras of the initiate and wake them to activity in his aura''- Dion Fortune
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Old 18-08-2017, 10:21 PM   #50
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A description of the initiation of Hitler by one of his magical handlers Dietrich Eckhart. the 'centres of vision' are the chakras:

"Hitler will dance, but it is I who have called the tune! I have initiated him into the 'Secret Doctrine', opened his centres of vision and given him the means to communicate with the Powers. Do not mourn for me: I shall have influenced History more than any other German".
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Old 18-08-2017, 10:34 PM   #51
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These forces stimulate the corresponding chakras of the initiate and wake them to activity in his aura''
the archons that david speaks about synch with peoples auras

those archons feed off peoples misery and that is why so many freemasons are pedos, because the archons are feeding off the misery of children through those freemasons

that's why there are so many pedo scandals among the el-ites who are all freemasons
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Old 19-08-2017, 09:39 AM   #52
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Ok so there is a big issue of trust in these online discussions. two different viewpoints so who to trust?

justme has accused me of being unfair to freemasonry because i am aggrieved at it but i have no aggrievement with freemasonry because i have had no dealings with it!

And that's important...because i HAVE SWORN NO OATHS and am not bound by any obligation to any order. I am a free and independent truth seeker sharing what i have learned

What is more likely is that justme IS a sworn member of an order and is therefore protecting that above the truth

So to support what i said earlier about the purpose of freemasonic initiation being to alter consciousness (which all people reading this with knowledge of the occult KNOW to be true) i'm going to quote from a famous author on the qabalah dion fortune

Perhaps justme will claim to possess a superior grasp of the subject matter then dion or perhaps he'll find some other way to try and deflect this away from freemasonry and yet all you have to do is decide for yourself who is telling the truth

''A ritual initiation is the act of linking the microcosmic sephirah, the chakra, with the macrocosmic sephirah; it is the introduction of a newcomer to the sphere by those who are already there. They construct a symbolic representation of the sphere on the physical plane in the furniture of the temple; they construct an astral replica of it by concentrated imagination; and by means of invocation they call down into this temple not made by hands the forces of the sphere of the sephirah they are working upon
These forces stimulate the corresponding chakras of the initiate and wake them to activity in his aura''- Dion Fortune
Dion Fortune might be a well respected occultist but that doesnt mean her ideas and work cant be questioned. A lot of people consider her work dated now.

As for altering consciousness, your fear mongering will do that to people who are receptive to your BELIEFS. There is nothing magical about altering consciousness as we do that ourselves every day.

So you are now trying to claim Im covering things up? lol. Paranoia or what
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Old 19-08-2017, 09:44 AM   #53
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no i have not tried to join and have no issues of revenge

i didn't develop political views as a result of union action. I joined a union because i already had political views!

So you are barking up the wrong tree there

I am sharing this information not because i have any agenda....i am sharing it passionately because i believe it to be true

can you get your head around that? that someone might actually say something because they believe it to be true...i know its a novel thing these days but there it is

if you do not think it is true then challenge the information and we can debate it out and that way anyone reading can study the information and make their own mind up
You have hit the nail on the head there. You BELIEVE it to be true. I've seen your arguements get taken to pieces time and again by people who are not ruled by fear and hysteria. You WANT this stuff to be true, which is wrong in itself on many levels because your mindset is helping to create and maintain such a situation through your belief
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Old 19-08-2017, 12:16 PM   #54
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Perception, I wouldn't listen too much to wave. If you read every one of his Masonic posts you won't find a single one that admits there is good in freemasonry. All you will find is distorted views, outright lies, manipulation and fear mongering. A wise person looks from all angles but the rabid fanatic only seeks to scare people into their viewpoint.
I agree, I've found some of what he has said interesting but other bits to be reaching out and not providing a solid foundation of facts on which to make claims. Even links to sites for some of his info would be good. Users like him are just a different type of brainwashing to the mainstream, but they're both just as bad.

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Old 21-08-2017, 07:08 AM   #55
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freemasonry IS anti-democratic because it operates in secret and clearly has been involved in political revolutions around the world.
Freemasonry is not anti-democratic.

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actually it could put someone at a disadvantage if someone part of your pizza makers club was also an authority figure such as a magistrate or police chief, and they could then help out other members of the pizza makers club when they get in trouble so thus putting non-members at a disadvantage. This is often the case between freemasons in positions of power
Do you have any evidence to back this up?

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The Protocols of Zion, 4:2

---Gougenot des Mosseaux in Le Juif, le Judaisme et la Judaisation des Peuples Chretiens, Paris, 1869.

The Jewish Guardian...

The following could be read in the French masonic magazine Le Symbolisme (July 1928):

Latomia, No. 7-8, 1928

A speech at the B'nai B'rith convention in Paris...

Rabbi Isaac Wise

The Jewish Tribune newspaper

Ray Novosel, writing from Australia in 2004...

Be Wise As Serpents by Fritz Springmeier According to Jewish leader Rabbi Meir Kahne of the Jewish Defense League...

In 1861, from a Parisan Jewish periodical La Verite Israelite (Vol V., p.74)
Are any of these Masonic authorities? Most anti-Masons hold a misguided belief at what constitutes authority in Freemasonry. Since the 18th century, many Masons have published works concerning Freemasonry, writing on various theories and subjects within Freemasonry. Anti-Masons would have others believe that everything a Mason writes is inherently accepted by all of Freemasonry. The problem here is that not everything written by a Mason has been factual, but as Freemasonry is a society dedicated to knowledge and free thought, Grand Lodges have not interfered with what an individual Mason writes. A Grand Lodge is the only entity within Freemasonry that has authority to speak on the symbols, rituals, history, and so on. Without receiving an endorsement from a Grand Lodge, a Masonic author is merely giving his opinion, he does not speak for all Freemasonry. Freemasonry is much more than just the writings of a single Masonic author.

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That book is a lovely piece of fiction.

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Freemasonry takes people through magical rituals
Actually, it takes one through initiatic rituals. Ritual isn’t just important to Freemasonry; it is an important aspect of society and human existence. There are a number of categories of rituals such as social rituals, military rituals, celebratory rituals, worship rituals, funerary rituals, bardic rituals, and initiatic rituals. Freemasonry is filled with a variety of rituals, but the most notable is the initiatic or initiation rituals. Rituals remind us of what is important as well as providing a sense of stability and continuity in our lives; it educates us in the values of an organization, allows for knowledge to be passed from generation to generation unchanged, and binds the members together, not just in the Lodge, but across time and space. Masonic rituals attempt to impart values and lessons through symbolism.

I define ritual as “dramatic, planned sets of activities that bring together aspects of an organization’s culture in a single event” often through the use of symbols and, in regards to Freemasonry, ritual is the physical enactment of our central myth—the Hiramic legend. Concerning the term “myth”, it is a popular notion that myth equates fiction. In reality, myths can be both fiction and non-fiction, but the origin of the use of myth is in oral traditions, which is the telling of stories and legends were passed down through the generations via storytellers. Written myths often came about centuries after an oral myth originated. The validity aside, oral myths did not stay consistent, but were used to help explain an event or philosophy to a largely illiterate people. To contrast rituals and myths, scholars like Edward Tylor, argues that ritual stems from and is secondary to myth; that myths give birth to rituals.

The history of rituals demonstrates there has been an intimate part of human existence. In 2006, scientists discovered evidence in Botswana that humans were practicing rituals around 70,000-years ago. The scientists discovered in a cave, a pit filled with arrow heads that had been burned next to wall paintings and believed that the ritual surrounded the creation myth that man was descended from a python (which was depicted in one of the paintings). Persians, Egyptians, Romans, and Grecians, in ancient history, had organizations such as mystery cults who met in secret and used initiation rituals to bestow upon candidates philosophical and moral knowledge as well as the modes of recognition.

Initiation rites and rituals help mark the passage of time, from one stage of life to the next. Sometimes they can be referred to as “rites of passage.” Informally, these rites of passage could be a young man killing and packing out his first deer. Formal initiation rites, while they will vary in myth and exact practices from group to group, still have common themes. Many initiation rituals attempt to teach a lesson of humility either through symbolic destitution or through some kind of struggle. This practice isn’t meant to embarrass, but to clear the path back to the Self, to get rid of the attachment to materialism. Another theme is the concept and reflection on death and/or rebirth. Whether or not this is a part of the central myth, this concept is to signify the moral and spiritual transformation.
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Old 21-08-2017, 02:07 PM   #56
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Hi ksigmason, nice to hear from you. I've been reading a lot if books on freemasonry recently and found out quite a lot, but one thing that I can't understand is why do it? It didn't seem evil, but it doesn't seem very helpful either. What is the ultimate goal of freemasonry and why does one choose to do it?

Also how far along in masonry are you?

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Old 21-08-2017, 09:47 PM   #57
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You have hit the nail on the head there. You BELIEVE it to be true. I've seen your arguements get taken to pieces time and again by people who are not ruled by fear and hysteria. You WANT this stuff to be true, which is wrong in itself on many levels because your mindset is helping to create and maintain such a situation through your belief
oh really?

where were my arguments 'taken to pieces'?

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I agree, I've found some of what he has said interesting but other bits to be reaching out and not providing a solid foundation of facts on which to make claims. Even links to sites for some of his info would be good. Users like him are just a different type of brainwashing to the mainstream, but they're both just as bad.
you have asked for points of view on freemasonry but you don't seem to like what's coming back. In fact it seems you are not unbiased at all and are in fact acting as an apologist for freemasonry
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Old 21-08-2017, 09:50 PM   #58
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Actually, it takes one through initiatic rituals. Ritual isn’t just important to Freemasonry; it is an important aspect of society and human existence.
no ritual is an aspect of the reptile r-complex part of the brain...ritual and hierarchy, which are both defining characteristics of freemasonry

could it be that freemasonry is really about cultivating reptilian traits in its adherents by altering their consciousness?

I'd argue yes
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Old 21-08-2017, 09:51 PM   #59
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Dion Fortune might be a well respected occultist but that doesnt mean her ideas and work cant be questioned. A lot of people consider her work dated now.
rofl

i wondered how you would try and brush that dion quote under the carpet

hilarious!

Dion fortune had more knowledge of the occult in her pinkie then you have in your entire being
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Old 22-08-2017, 08:18 AM   #60
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nah the freemasons are full of pedos

Channel 4 News UK: Freemasons Linked To Pedophile Rings

And yet they never named names or provided any semblance of evidence.

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I agree, though I am concerned that my granddad might be hanging around with pedophiles, satanists, you name it. It would be interesting if anyone has any insight as to what goes on at a typical masonic lodge meeting.
Typically, a Lodge has a monthly stated meeting. Other nights they can confer the three degrees of Freemasonry:
In the degree of Entered Apprentice Mason, the candidate is introduced into the values, principles, tenets, and legend of Freemasonry. We learn that they held their meetings on the ground floor of King Solomon's Temple and were the bearer's of burden moving the crucial materials needed to erect this famous edifice. The lessons of this degree are Truth, love, charity, moderation, courage, prudence, and justice.

As a Fellow Craft Mason, one is taught that meetings are held in the Middle Chamber of King Solomon's Temple, and the journey accompanying your way there, and on the wages of a Mason. The lessons of this degree are the need for acquiring knowledge and education, charity, and obedience to the established rules of our Ancient Craft.

In the Master Mason degree, we are instructed in a great tragedy, the death of our Operative Grand Master, Hiram Abiff, prior to the completion of the Temple. The candidate is taught lessons of fidelity and the struggle against the enemies of Freemasonry: tyranny, ignorance, and fanaticism. The most pronounced lesson of this degree is unwavering fidelity in the face of adversary.
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Do you know any of their usernames that I can PM?
You can PM me.

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one freemasonic apologist has admitted that they were in military intelligence
I think he means me.

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So how would lower degree people know if there was an overscheme for freemasonry?
Yet you do?

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They hide behind charity and yet most of their charities benefit other freemasons and britains most prolific rapist jimmy saville was famous for hiding behind his charity work too so don't be fooled by that one
Actually our charities do not benefit just "other freemasons". FYI, Savile was not a Mason so don't try to pull that logical fallacy on anyone.

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Hi ksigmason, nice to hear from you. I've been reading a lot if books on freemasonry recently and found out quite a lot, but one thing that I can't understand is why do it? It didn't seem evil, but it doesn't seem very helpful either. What is the ultimate goal of freemasonry and why does one choose to do it?
Freemasonry is, first and foremost, an initiatic order whose rituals attempt to transform men both spiritually and morally. The ritualistic initiation is what separates Freemasonry from the other fraternal and philanthropic organizations such as the Kiwanis or the Rotary. Note that I am not trying to denigrate any of those organizations, but Freemasonry is not just a social or philanthropic group.

Ritual isn’t just important to Freemasonry; it is an important aspect of society and human existence. There are a number of categories of rituals such as social rituals, military rituals, celebratory rituals, worship rituals, funerary rituals, bardic rituals, and initiatic rituals. Freemasonry is filled with a variety of rituals, but the most notable is the initiatic or initiation rituals. Rituals remind us of what is important as well as providing a sense of stability and continuity in our lives; it educates us in the values of an organization, allows for knowledge to be passed from generation to generation unchanged, and binds the members together, not just in the Lodge, but across time and space. Masonic rituals attempt to impart values and lessons through symbolism.

I define ritual as “dramatic, planned sets of activities that bring together aspects of an organization’s culture in a single event” often through the use of symbols and, in regards to Freemasonry, ritual is the physical enactment of our central myth—the Hiramic legend. Concerning the term “myth”, it is a popular notion that myth equates fiction. In reality, myths can be both fiction and non-fiction, but the origin of the use of myth is in oral traditions, which is the telling of stories and legends were passed down through the generations via storytellers. Written myths often came about centuries after an oral myth originated. The validity aside, oral myths did not stay consistent, but were used to help explain an event or philosophy to a largely illiterate people. To contrast rituals and myths, scholars like Edward Tylor, argues that ritual stems from and is secondary to myth; that myths give birth to rituals.

Initiation rites and rituals help mark the passage of time, from one stage of life to the next. Sometimes they can be referred to as “rites of passage.” Informally, these rites of passage could be a young man killing and packing out his first deer. Formal initiation rites, while they will vary in myth and exact practices from group to group, still have common themes. Many initiation rituals attempt to teach a lesson of humility either through symbolic destitution or through some kind of struggle. This practice isn’t meant to embarrass, but to clear the path back to the Self, to get rid of the attachment to materialism. Another theme is the concept and reflection on death and/or rebirth. Whether or not this is a part of the central myth, this concept is to signify the moral and spiritual transformation.

In the end, it is hoped that through such betterment that an individual will better his community and the world.

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Also how far along in masonry are you?
I have been involved in Freemasonry for 11-years now. I'm a Past Master of two Lodges and currently Worshipful Master of another Lodge, Past Grand Orator of my Grand Lodge, Grand King of a Grand Chapter of Royal Arch Masons, Grand Captain of the Guard of a Grand Council of Cryptic Masons, recipient of the Knights Templar Cross of Honor, Grand Sword Bearer of a Grand Commandery of Knights Templar, Registrar of a Chapter of the Sovereign Order of Knights Preceptor, Deputy Governor of a York Rite College, member (32°) of the Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite, Fellow of the Grand College of Rites, Herald of a Conclave of the Red Cross of Constantine, Junior Warden of a Council of the Order of Knight Masons, Secretary and Provincial Grand Cellarer (Northwest Province) of the Commemorative Order of St. Thomas of Acon, Prelate of a Priory of the Knights of the York Cross of Honor, member of the Royal Order of Scotland, member of the Sovereign Grand Master's Council of the Allied Masonic Degrees for the United States of America, member of Ye Antient Order of the Corks, Keeper of the Bath Door of the Masonic Order of the Bath of the United States of America, member of a Court of the Masonic Order of Athelstan, member of El Korah Shrine of Shriners International, and Acolyte (IV°) of a College of the Societas Rosicruciana in Civitatibus Foederatis (SRICF).
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Traveling Templar blog - 24FEB2019

Last edited by ksigmason; 22-08-2017 at 08:20 AM.
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