Go Back   David Icke's Official Forums > Main Forums > Exposing Child Abuse

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 16-10-2013, 12:25 PM   #21
sillybilly
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 629
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

I keep changing my opinions about this, but hats off to Grole and any others who have actually done something about it other than just have a forum rant.
sillybilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2013, 12:32 PM   #22
mido
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 553
Likes: 1 (1 Post)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetcheeks View Post
My understanding of the questions is that she was advised by her solicitor not to answer any, as it was felt that Amaral had already decided they were guilty and they thought they were being set up. I am sure that Gerry McCann had already been questioned by then and was told that positive DNA was found in their vehicle hired 24 days after Madeleine went missing. This was apparently despite the Portuguese police already being warned DNA in their hire car was "inconclusive".

If I was innocent and if I felt I was being set up, I wouldn't answer the questions either.
what do you mean, being set up the police were conducting an investigation

you'd be stupid to refuse to answer questions and would be obstructing the police. over here maybe you'd be held over on suspicion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetcheeks View Post
I am very unsure what to believe in this case. However, because of all the recent exposure of widespread paedophile rings and until I read some real evidence against the McCann's, I cannot in my heart join in their public hanging. That is not to say that I don't totally condemn their selfishness and stupidity in leaving their children alone in an unlocked apartment, but if innocent, their punishment is beyond imagineable already.
there isn't any evidence of an abduction so get that straight. there is evidence that M died in 5a.
mido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2013, 01:31 PM   #23
sweetcheeks
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,743
Likes: 6 (4 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iwantthetruth View Post
With respect sweetcheeks, you quoted the BBC as your source. The UK media are too scared to publish anything detrimental about the McCanns - not least of all because they are prone to sue for libel.
With respect iwantthetruth, I could just have easily have quoted numerous MSM on the results of the DNA and the fact that the Portuguese police tried to suggest they were conclusive when they clearly were not.

Quote:
The Guardian
UK police warned on DNA evidence before McCanns became suspects.
Case dossier reveals forensic scientists' doubts.
British scientists warned DNA tests on a sample from Kate and Gerry McCanns' hire car were inconclusive just days before they were made suspects, police files have revealed.

Forensic experts described how it was impossible to conclude whether swabbed bodily fluid taken from the vehicle's boot came from the couple's missing daughter Madeleine.

Despite the results from the Forensic Science Service (FSS), Portuguese detectives went on to name the McCanns "arguidos", or formal suspects in the case just four days later.

Significantly, officials even chose to cite DNA evidence as grounds for their suspicions.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/a...ccann.portugal
Quote:
The Scotsman
A SCIENTIST warned that DNA tests on a sample from Kate and Gerry McCann's hire car were inconclusive days before the couple were made suspects, official police files revealed last night.

In an e-mail dated 3 September, 2007, John Lowe, of the major incidents team at the Birmingham-based Forensic Science Service (FSS), said it was impossible to conclude whether or not the material came from the couple's daughter, Madeleine.
The revelation came to light after the police files from the inquiry, which lasted more than 14 months, were formally made public.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/scie...ects-1-1083708
What I was trying to show is that the Portuguese police knowingly released information that was incorrect and tried to pressurise a confession based on inconclusive results.

I do not believe that the UK media were 'too scared to publish anything detrimental about the McCanns'. In fact they produced something like 100 articles in over 4 newspapers, which they eventually retracted and gave unprecedented front page apologies for, and hugh payouts.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/200...ess.dailystar1

If I was in a strange country, being asked questions via a translator, when I could clearly see that they suspected me of killing my own daughter, (they had labelled me arguido) and my lawyer told me not to comment, would I comment? Not on your Nelly!
__________________
sweetcheeks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2013, 01:44 PM   #24
sweetcheeks
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,743
Likes: 6 (4 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mido View Post
what do you mean, being set up the police were conducting an investigation

you'd be stupid to refuse to answer questions and would be obstructing the police. over here maybe you'd be held over on suspicion.



there isn't any evidence of an abduction so get that straight. there is evidence that M died in 5a.
See my comment above about the Portuguese incorrectly suggesting the DNA was conclusive. The results only became apparent when the documents became public months later. You would also be 'stupid' to answer questions against the advice of your qualified, paid-for, legal representative, surely?

There is no evidence of an abduction, neither is there any conclusive evidence of a death as far as I am aware. Unless you know different?
__________________
sweetcheeks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2013, 02:00 PM   #25
mido
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 553
Likes: 1 (1 Post)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetcheeks View Post
See my comment above about the Portuguese incorrectly suggesting the DNA was conclusive. The results only became apparent when the documents became public months later. You would also be 'stupid' to answer questions against the advice of your qualified, paid-for, legal representative, surely?

There is no evidence of an abduction, neither is there any conclusive evidence of a death as far as I am aware. Unless you know different?
so you discount the sniffer dogs then. the fact that they alerted the handler to the apartment, the toy and the car but nowhere else seems to escape you. these would all be errors would they these dogs have a supreme record.

ah, but nothing to see here folks, move along . our tracker dogs imagined it all, maybe because it's close to their tea time.
mido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2013, 02:31 PM   #26
sweetcheeks
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,743
Likes: 6 (4 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mido View Post
so you discount the sniffer dogs then. the fact that they alerted the handler to the apartment, the toy and the car but nowhere else seems to escape you. these would all be errors would they these dogs have a supreme record.

ah, but nothing to see here folks, move along . our tracker dogs imagined it all, maybe because it's close to their tea time.
I do not discount the sniffer dogs at all, but I have yet to read a sniffer dog report where the dogs are 100% accurate. I have also read up a little on cadaverine and how it is not easily washed away. Given that both McCanns are doctors and have contact with the deceased, I don't think it is conclusive.

I also have some doubts over Amaral, I feel he was so convinced of their guilt, which he even admits that he did from the word go. Let's be honest, he wouldn't be the first policeman to 'help' the case along, would he? Marney pointed out an article on Spivey yesterday, there was talk there about how DNA could have been planted by the Portuguese.

For all of these reasons, I am not convinced.
__________________
sweetcheeks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2013, 02:39 PM   #27
grannie27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 15,058
Likes: 2,641 (1,295 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetcheeks View Post
Glad to hear it Grannie, if this forum has taught us anything it is to question everything... and everyone!

However, I don't really like being accused of being part of a 'gang' or tag team, I am very much my own woman, free-thinking and at times spirited. I have spent a long time reading up on this case in the past, and I am still not convinced that the McCanns are involved.
Neither am I convinced they are part of some Paedophile gang either , Logic tells me ,from their own words ,they were suprised to hear Madeliene mention she was crying and they never came (why suprised? they knew they never checked) suprised the Sedative wore off maybe?,Gerry says "we realised we had to be more vigilant keeping an eye on them " But not once has it been mentioned that clearly she or the twins had not been checked on for hours ,hence Mrs Finn ,heard the crying for at least an hour and 15 mins or longer ...Why ,because they had left the complex and went to do the Quiz at Chaplins bar ,then stayed for the happy hour after ,Mrs Finn heard them entering the patio windows around 11.45 when the crying stopped,so I am to assume they were not locked .
I question the massive support they have recieved from PMs to Billionaires ,Popes Private jets and the UK Police plus the Media .

Its a cover up from the Top Down ,just like Savile ,and it stinks .
grannie27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2013, 02:57 PM   #28
sweetcheeks
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,743
Likes: 6 (4 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by grannie27 View Post
Neither am I convinced they are part of some Paedophile gang either , Logic tells me ,from their own words ,they were suprised to hear Madeliene mention she was crying and they never came (why suprised? they knew they never checked) suprised the Sedative wore off maybe?,Gerry says "we realised we had to be more vigilant keeping an eye on them " But not once has it been mentioned that clearly she or the twins had not been checked on for hours ,hence Mrs Finn ,heard the crying for at least an hour and 15 mins or longer ...Why ,because they had left the complex and went to do the Quiz at Chaplins bar ,then stayed for the happy hour after ,Mrs Finn heard them entering the patio windows around 11.45 when the crying stopped,so I am to assume they were not locked .
I question the massive support they have recieved from PMs to Billionaires ,Popes Private jets and the UK Police plus the Media .

Its a cover up from the Top Down ,just like Savile ,and it stinks .
I am not suggesting they were part of a paedophile ring at all, however I don't discount Madeleine being taken by one.

I am also with you on them leaving their children alone, how negligent and selfish to put your own enjoyment over that of your children. I wouldn't put children into a daytime crèche, never mind at night in an unlocked apartment.

As for the massive support, they clearly live in another world to me, with contacts from the highest level. However, to give them their due, they have fought tooth and nail to keep this in the media and use every contact they have, like no other parents of a missing child that I have ever heard of. I cannot slur them for that.

That they keep pushing this, all these years later, when they could now be quietly disappearing into the background for a quiet life, is to their credit and adds to my uncertainty of their guilt.
__________________
sweetcheeks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2013, 03:03 PM   #29
schumie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 340
Likes: 9 (5 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetcheeks View Post
See my comment above about the Portuguese incorrectly suggesting the DNA was conclusive. The results only became apparent when the documents became public months later. You would also be 'stupid' to answer questions against the advice of your qualified, paid-for, legal representative, surely?

There is no evidence of an abduction, neither is there any conclusive evidence of a death as far as I am aware. Unless you know different?
so if the dna was not conclusive where did martin brunt get this from then - still available............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3HQ74Rfdbk
schumie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2013, 03:10 PM   #30
schumie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 340
Likes: 9 (5 Posts)
Default

the results could not be retested because the FSS 'lost' them
schumie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2013, 03:13 PM   #31
grannie27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 15,058
Likes: 2,641 (1,295 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetcheeks View Post
I am not suggesting they were part of a paedophile ring at all, however I don't discount Madeleine being taken by one.

I am also with you on them leaving their children alone, how negligent and selfish to put your own enjoyment over that of your children. I wouldn't put children into a daytime crèche, never mind at night in an unlocked apartment.

As for the massive support, they clearly live in another world to me, with contacts from the highest level. However, to give them their due, they have fought tooth and nail to keep this in the media and use every contact they have, like no other parents of a missing child that I have ever heard of. I cannot slur them for that.

That they keep pushing this, all these years later, when they could now be quietly disappearing into the background for a quiet life, is to their credit and adds to my uncertainty of their guilt.
Quote:
That they keep pushing this, all these years later, when they could now be quietly disappearing into the background for a quiet life, is to their credit and adds to my uncertainty of their guilt.
How do you know its "them "pushing ? maybe they are being manipulated to push ...this story sells papers ya know and we know how honest the greedy bastards that sell newspapers are We also know how the Police ,media and Government are in bed together ...this could be being kept alive as an excuse to cover real news .....nothing is off the cards on this side of the story .
grannie27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2013, 03:31 PM   #32
moritz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 580
Likes: 217 (97 Posts)
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by beechtree View Post
I agree with your posts, sweetcheeks.

There's also the basic risk of misinterpretation.
Madeleine McCann: Possible translation errors
I agree there may have been interpretation errors

The problem is, the rogatory interviews where undertaken by British police, so no translation errors there.

Similarly, no translation errors in various media interviews such as Oprah Winfrey etc.

No translation issues in the McCanns own documentary either
moritz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2013, 03:56 PM   #33
sweetcheeks
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,743
Likes: 6 (4 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schumie View Post
so if the dna was not conclusive where did martin brunt get this from then - still available............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3HQ74Rfdbk
I think you will find that the Portuguese Police originally announced to the press that there was a match and that is what Martin Brunt was repeating on this clip in 2007. This was in all the media and was one of the reasons that the McCanns were so vilified.

However, you may not remember that the British Forensics then denied the Portuguese report and said that the results had been misread.
Here is an article that states that

Quote:
DNA error by British experts led to McCanns being accused, leaked report claims

Two key blunders led to Kate and Gerry McCann being declared suspects in their daughter Madeleine's disappearance, a leaked report claims today.

One of the mistakes relating to DNA tests on samples collected in Portugal was made by the British Forensic Science Service, the Portuguese document said.

The report, prepared by Portugal's attorney-general, Fernando José Pinto Monteiro, claims the two crucial errors led to the doctors from being made 'arguidos' in the case.

It was revealed as Mr Monteiro prepared to formally clear the McCanns, both doctors from Rothley, Leicestershire, and shelve the case.

According to today's report, the Policia Judiciaria - Portugal's criminal investigation department - were told that DNA evidence found in the couple's hire car, on the window sill of their holiday apartment and in the car park of the apartment complex, belonged to Madeleine.

The report claims it was categorically given as her DNA and as a result the McCanns were questioned and later made suspects, according to London's Evening Standard.


But exactly one month later the forensic service wrote another report saying it could not be sure those findings were correct or whether the samples belonged to Madeleine, her younger sister Amelie or her mother.


http://www.standard.co.uk/news/dna-e...s-6920018.html
This website that somebody else recommended has the originals of the reports and the last one states this

Quote:
Task Portugal
From: "Prior Stuart"
To: "Task Portugal"
Sent: 04 September 2007 10:14
Subject: FW: Op Task - in Confidence

From: Lowe, Mr J R [mailto:[email protected]
Sent: 03 September 2007 15:01
To: [email protected]
Subject: Op Task - In Confidence

Stuart

Firstly, here are the last three results you are expecting

An incomplete DNA result was obtained from cellular material on the swab 3a. The swab contained very little information and showed low level indications of DNA from more than one person. However, all of the confirmed DNA components within this result match the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeline McCann. LCN DNA profiling is highly sensitive it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid.

There is no evidence to support the view that Madeline MCCann contributed DNA to the swab 3B.

A complex LCN DNA result which appeared to have originated from at least three people was obtained from cellular material recovered from the luggage compartment section 286C 2007 CRL10 (2) area 2. Within the DNA profile of Madeline McCann there are 20 DNA components represented by 19 peaks on a chart. At one of the areas of DNA we routinely examine Madeleine has inherited the same DNA component from both parents; this appears therefore as 1 peak rather than 2, hence 19 rather than 20. Of these 19 components 15 are present within the result from this item; there are 37 components in total. There are 37 components because there are at least 3 contributors; but there could be up to five contributors. In my opinion therefore this result is too complex for meaningful interpretation/inclusion.

Why - ...

Well lets look at the question that is being asked

"Is there DNA from Madeline on the swab "


It would be very simple to say "yes" simply because of the number of components within the result that are also in her reference sample.

What we need to consider, as scientists, is whether the match is genuine and legitimate; because Madeline has deposited DNA as a result of being in the car or whether Madeline merely appears to match the result by chance. The individual components in Madeline's profile are not unique to her, it is the specific combination of 19 components that makes her profile unique above all others. Elements of Madeline's profile are also present within the the profiles of many of the scientists here in Birmingham, myself included. it's important to stress that 50% of Madeline's profile will be shared with each parent. It is not possible in a mixture of more than two people, to determine or evaluate which specific DNA components pair with each other. Namely, we cannot separate the components out into 3 individual DNA profiles.

Therefore, we cannot answer the question: is the match genuine or is it a chance match.

The same applies to any result that is quoted as being too complex for meaningful inclusion/interpretation

What questions will we never be able to answer with LCN DNA profiling -

When was the DNA deposited -
How was the DNA deposited -
What body fluid(s) does the DIVA originate from -
Was a crime committed
-

These, along with all other results, will be formalised in a final report

Please don't hesitate to contact me if you require any further assistance

kind regards
John

John Lowe Forensic Scientist
Major Incidents Team
Priory House
Inter Facility: 703 6973
External: 0121 607 6973
Fax: 0121 6221807

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm
So I am not sure that the DNA turned out to be conclusive or relevant.
__________________
sweetcheeks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2013, 03:58 PM   #34
mido
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 553
Likes: 1 (1 Post)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schumie View Post
so if the dna was not conclusive where did martin brunt get this from then - still available............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3HQ74Rfdbk
exactly, but mccann supporters don't want to know about it.
mido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2013, 04:26 PM   #35
sweetcheeks
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,743
Likes: 6 (4 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mido View Post
exactly, but mccann supporters don't want to know about it.
Check out the PJ's final report and comments on the DNA.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id136.html
__________________
sweetcheeks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2013, 04:58 PM   #36
schumie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 340
Likes: 9 (5 Posts)
Default

so you are telling me that results from a world renowed lab that were released to the media as conclusive - then hurridly changed yes changed to make them 'inconclusive' is ok to you? Whatever the results were altered to they were released as conclusive to the press

If it were your child would that be ok to you? and when Portugal offered to test them themselves they were told the original samples had been 'lost' again a world renowned forensic testing centre 'lost' the only possible DNA evidence of the worlds most well known missing child - you think this is ok? This does not ring alarm bells?
schumie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2013, 05:10 PM   #37
sweetcheeks
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,743
Likes: 6 (4 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schumie View Post
so you are telling me that results from a world renowed lab that were released to the media as conclusive - then hurridly changed yes changed to make them 'inconclusive' is ok to you? Whatever the results were altered to they were released as conclusive to the press

If it were your child would that be ok to you? and when Portugal offered to test them themselves they were told the original samples had been 'lost' again a world renowned forensic testing centre 'lost' the only possible DNA evidence of the worlds most well known missing child - you think this is ok? This does not ring alarm bells?
I am not sure that it was actually the lab that originally released results to the media, I believe it was the PJ.

They told Gerry McCann at his questioning that the results were conclusive. However, it was only discovered when all the documents became public that they had received an email from forensics four days before saying the results were inconclusive.

Typical, that the results were lost, we have come to expect that of anything of importance!
__________________

Last edited by sweetcheeks; 16-10-2013 at 05:15 PM.
sweetcheeks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2013, 05:24 PM   #38
iwantthetruth
Inactive
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 616
Likes: 1 (1 Post)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetcheeks View Post
With respect iwantthetruth, I could just have easily have quoted numerous MSM on the results of the DNA and the fact that the Portuguese police tried to suggest they were conclusive when they clearly were not.





What I was trying to show is that the Portuguese police knowingly released information that was incorrect and tried to pressurise a confession based on inconclusive results.

I do not believe that the UK media were 'too scared to publish anything detrimental about the McCanns'. In fact they produced something like 100 articles in over 4 newspapers, which they eventually retracted and gave unprecedented front page apologies for, and hugh payouts.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/200...ess.dailystar1

If I was in a strange country, being asked questions via a translator, when I could clearly see that they suspected me of killing my own daughter, (they had labelled me arguido) and my lawyer told me not to comment, would I comment? Not on your Nelly!
We are going to have to agree to disagree sweetcheeks. If you read the PJ files, you will see that FFS firstly indicated that there was a DNA match and the PJ awaited a formal report. When it was 'delayed' it was Stuart Prior from Leicestershire police who followed it up and complained about 'obstruction'. He is reported to have said, "I have arrested people for less than this".

Read the translation of "The Truth of A Lie" and then see if you believe it was a botched investigation; whether there was undue UK political interference; and whether it is possible that there has been a cover-up of something (I know not what) since 3rd May.

It was the UK police who first pointed to the McCanns as 'being involved'. But because of PT Law, the interviews and investigations had to be undertaken by the PJ. Mark Harris spent a week going through the files and recommended that the cadaver dogs should be brought in. You can read his report (in English - untranslated) in the PJ files.

(The fact that it was the UK police who put together the case against the McCanns was exposed in a wikileak - from the US Ambassador in Portugal. He had met with Martin Ellis and sent a missive back to the USA.)
iwantthetruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2013, 05:42 PM   #39
sweetcheeks
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,743
Likes: 6 (4 Posts)
Default

No problem iwantthetruth, we can agree to disagree and I promise not to link to the BBC, if you promise not to link to Amaral's 'The Truth of A Lie'.

Both of them dubious
__________________
sweetcheeks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2013, 05:47 PM   #40
iwantthetruth
Inactive
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 616
Likes: 1 (1 Post)
Default

No comment - I am off this thread now.

I simply can't deal with more heart-ache. my time is better spent trying to stop today's cover-ups on the JS thread.

I will do what I can for Madeleine, but I simply don't have the strength to debate it any more.
iwantthetruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:53 PM.


Shoutbox provided by vBShout (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.