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Old 20-09-2013, 09:32 PM   #41
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From timeline

Quote:
1990 Naypic helping Carol Kasir.

1990 Carole Kasir found dead age 47 in her flat. Coroners inquest concludes suicide by insulin overdose.
NAYPIC employees believe murdered.
So she was gonna tell them how big this all was, how far it all stretched back, and how connected it was internationally and how the first trial was a smokescreen for what was still continuing?.

HOW IT WAS ALL A SHAM TO COVER FOR GOVERNMENT POLITICIANS AND ROYALTY RAPING CHILDREN FOR CURRENCY AND POLITICAL GAIN. IT WAS TOO EFFECTIVE AND TOO IMPORTANT AN OPERATION TO DISMANTLE (OR REVEAL)


If it is the same one, likely with Carole's timing, there is now from the conviction of Peters and others concrete proof that abuse was occuring at Elm, or at least by the same ring.

Last edited by discovery77; 20-09-2013 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 20-09-2013, 10:18 PM   #42
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Well for me, it corroborates the Elm story. That's the main thing for me with it.

With this ring you have direct statements from court and the cops saying there WERE high level and publicly known abusers, kids were drugged, abused, taken to Amsterdam, boys from Grafton Close etc etc. Which is exactly what the Elm documents obviously claim too.

Then you have the boys from Elm/Grafton quoted in that article. Mentioning Peters etc. Corroboration...about Peters and about Elm, from a number of boys. Not from the list- from the boys themselves.

Plus, 150 boys RECORDED as victims. Recorded. ie identified and presumably spoken to. Enough to convict four men (and 13 weeks is a long trial) yet not enough to convict these public figures who would surely be far more easily identifiable than the barrister and the three nobodies.

Would be good to know the exact time Carole developed a conscience. Was it defo stated as 1990?

I'm too tired tonight to wade back through it all but will be over the weekend.

What's so sickening is how on the one hand it is stated about "bigger than the mafia" high level organised abuse and abusers and on the other they dare to state they had no time to investigate that. And everyone obviously accepted that. A few convictions, and all done now, nothing to see now so move along folks...
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Old 20-09-2013, 10:22 PM   #43
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If this is correct, then it means that Operation Hedgerow was one almighty cover-up. It also means that Tptb allowed the abuse to continue for years more when it could have been stopped. It also means that Fernbridge is another total whitewash and we are being conned here once again. WHO are they protecting that is so BLOODY important?????

Roger Gaspar was a detective inspector in Operation Hedgerow, he is now an independent law enforcement professional in Colchester. He must know what happened and what was covered up. He needs to come forward now. He is stated as saying "There were suggestions that boys were taken to Amsterdam, but we did not have time to investigate. It was a year-long investigation and Amsterdam was one of a number of leads. We just didn't have time to look at it in detail."

We demand that it is now looked at in detail and that Cameron provides sufficient finance and resources to do this. Those abused deserve justice and we are not going to stop until this happens!
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Old 20-09-2013, 10:26 PM   #44
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Yes I agree Dopes, so the contemporary whitewash will be harder than ever = impossible in fact with all those recorded victims and convictions

(whitewash now in technicolour )

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Old 20-09-2013, 10:29 PM   #45
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come on fernbridge, come out, come out, wherever you are

Last edited by discovery77; 20-09-2013 at 10:29 PM.
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Old 20-09-2013, 10:32 PM   #46
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As well as the Elm link with Colin Peters, we also suggested a striking resemblance to Alan Delaney in one of the Moss documents of a photograph of a young boy and a man with a moon shaped face and large glasses.

http://ukpaedos-exposed.com/2012/07/...tlandhounslow/
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Old 20-09-2013, 10:36 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discovery77 View Post
Yes I agree Dopes, so the contemporary whitewash will be harder than ever = impossible in fact with all those recorded victims and convictions

(whitewash now in technicolour )

Lol. Now you're just showing off

This ring was stated to have been operating for at least five years. If convicted in early 1989 (28th Feb/1st March I think it was, without checking) then they would have been arrested/charged a year or so before, maybe even longer as back then the time to come to court was a lot longer than it is these days.

So the five year starting point would have been 1983, possibly even 1982, depending on when they were arrested. And we know what was going on re Elm in 1982 and 1983.

Plus, we know police were well aware in early to mid 1982 of what was going down at Elm and at Grafton Close too. As you said Disco, they did naff all to stop it. The evidence is plainly there from the Peters ring trial snippets in The Independent. For at least five years after the Elm scandal broke the abuse within that ring continued.
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Old 20-09-2013, 10:58 PM   #48
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Funnily enough, I was writing up a post for today on the players in Fernbridge!!

Seems like a good time to post it!!

This is what I was just writing up!



Ok, I think it is valid - and essential - to have a greater
informed opinion of who the different people and organisations
are, involved in the Fernbridge investigation.


This includes police, journalists, news operatives and agencies Only then
can we gain a more informed opinion about how to judge the
investigation and form a valid opinion of how it is - and should be - progressing, and to keep an eye out for the opportunity for
cover - up or suspect connections/collusions/allegiances.

First: THE POLICE


Paul Settle, head of the METS paedophile unit, is
handling the investigation. You may remember this letter he sent Mary Moss just before she got her house searched!
Subject: RE: Allegations of Abuse : Operation Fairbank
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 10:59:39 +0000
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]

Dear Mary

Thank you for your reply. I would like to reassure you once again that we are taking this matter very seriously and are committed to investigating it in its entirety. I have noticed that in addition to sharing the file with journalists, you have posted the documents online. whilst I appreciate that you have done this in good faith could I please ask that you share these documents with us at the earliest opportunity. There is a real danger that by publishing them in open forum, potential evidence may become contaminated by third party interference or even potentially destroyed. This of course will significantly reduce the chance of us achieving justice for the those victims who have suffered for so long. I truly believe that this is not your intention. Once more could I ask that you contact me at your earliest convenience so that we can maximise the investigative opportunities that are contained within the documents you hold

Many Thanks

Paul

Paul Settle
Detective Chief Inspector
http://legalaidcuts.blogspot.co.uk/2...-searched.html



We also know also that Paul Settle is involved in the
'handling' of the Ben Fellowe's 'investigations' against Ken Clarke:-

"Starring: Detective Chief Inspector Paul Settle,
Detective Constable Nathan Jones
(who openly threatened
me over the telephone to give the Police a statement regarding
Kenneth Clarke), Detective Sergeant James Townly, Detective Constable Ben Lambskin, Andy and Julia-Anne
who took an eight hour statement from me which was pretty
detailed. These officers need to be suspended pending a
detailed and thorough review of their actions and also the
actions of “others” around them including the management
up to senior officers and Tom Watson MP to find out exactly
why they have decided not to question, under caution, Kenneth
Clarke MP over serious allegations that I have made and committed
to a Police statement."

http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/20...t-2517078.html


Now, what we know about Exaro? Who exactly are they?

http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...rk-watts-exaro

What is their role in Fernbridge? Is there one? Should there
be one? They report on the cases, often with first scoops.
They also have a firm place within the investigations:-

Quote:
"A former council official first reported allegations
to the
police about the guest house in in 2003, but he accuses
the MET of failing to tackle the case properly.

In the wake of disclosure about Savile, Settle and a
colleague asked me and the official, together with Tom
Watson, labour MP, for a meeting at The House of Commons
at the start of the scoping exercise. The MET hoped that
my presence would provide some assurance for the official."
http://www.exaronews.com/articles/47...of-child-abuse

Quote:
Watts is aiming at an audience of professionals – he lists lawyers, accountants, bankers, senior civil servants – for whom paying for content online (ft.com, for instance) is not anathema.

It has teamed up with rival media outlets (such as BBC2's Newsnight) to give stories a bigger shop window and send the Exaro name out into the ether.
Quote:
Exaro is is bankrolled by the millionaire investment (ahem hedge)
fund manager Jerome Booth, worth reputedly 189 million pounds.
(you had to pay on Exaro at first also)

Quote:
"Booth wants his money back and more. "He is someone who has invested in the business and is hoping at the end of the day to get a return on it," says Watts."
Watts:
Quote:
He's not a laugh-a-minute kind of guy. He collects admiration rather than friendships."
Watts began his career at the Hull Daily Mail, specialising in investigative reporting, before getting his national newspaper break on the Sunday Express. After a foray into television, including working on ITV's long-defunct World in Action, he joined Andrew Neil's Sunday Business



MOST IMPORTANTLY PERHAPS,
The MI5/MI6/SAS link:-

Again, on Mary Moss' blog, she copied another letter she received
from one Paul Settle himself. In it, he describes the
involvement of these same 3 agencies.
Worryingly, several of these
very same government agencies were involved in;

- the implementation of the guesthouse,

- the organisation of the guesthouse, and

- the covering up of the goings - on of the guesthouse.


...."We are currently using resources of National TV, the
internet and of an army of highly trained sensitive specialist
police officers who are tracking down the victims. We have
been given unlimited resources and have the assistance of
MI5 and 6 as well as the S.A.S in finding these abusive criminals
and bringing a credible investigation to the public's attention to
show future abusers we mean business."
http://legalaidcuts.blogspot.co.uk/2...-searched.html

Finally we have a long long list of alleged MET police officers and detectives connected to the Elm Guest House on the 'MM' documents.


Many more characters I could analyse................and will.

Boy, have we been in the thick of one big stinking cover up!

Last edited by discovery77; 20-09-2013 at 11:12 PM.
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Old 20-09-2013, 11:16 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discovery77 View Post
Funnily enough, I was writing up a post for today on the players in Fernbridge!!

Seems like a good time to post it!!

This is what I was just writing up!



Ok, I think it is valid - and essential - to have a greater
informed opinion of who the different people and organisations
are, involved in the Fernbridge investigation.


This includes police, journalists, news operatives and agencies Only then
can we gain a more informed opinion about how to judge the
investigation and form a valid opinion of how it is - and should be - progressing, and to keep an eye out for the opportunity for
cover - up or suspect connections/collusions/allegiances.

First: THE POLICE


Paul Settle, head of the METS paedophile unit, is
handling the investigation. You may remember this letter he sent Mary Moss just before she got her house searched!
Subject: RE: Allegations of Abuse : Operation Fairbank
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 10:59:39 +0000
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]

Dear Mary

Thank you for your reply. I would like to reassure you once again that we are taking this matter very seriously and are committed to investigating it in its entirety. I have noticed that in addition to sharing the file with journalists, you have posted the documents online. whilst I appreciate that you have done this in good faith could I please ask that you share these documents with us at the earliest opportunity. There is a real danger that by publishing them in open forum, potential evidence may become contaminated by third party interference or even potentially destroyed. This of course will significantly reduce the chance of us achieving justice for the those victims who have suffered for so long. I truly believe that this is not your intention. Once more could I ask that you contact me at your earliest convenience so that we can maximise the investigative opportunities that are contained within the documents you hold

Many Thanks

Paul

Paul Settle
Detective Chief Inspector
http://legalaidcuts.blogspot.co.uk/2...-searched.html



We also know also that Paul Settle is involved in the
'handling' of the Ben Fellowe's 'investigations' against Ken Clarke:-

"Starring: Detective Chief Inspector Paul Settle,
Detective Constable Nathan Jones
(who openly threatened
me over the telephone to give the Police a statement regarding
Kenneth Clarke), Detective Sergeant James Townly, Detective Constable Ben Lambskin, Andy and Julia-Anne
who took an eight hour statement from me which was pretty
detailed. These officers need to be suspended pending a
detailed and thorough review of their actions and also the
actions of “others” around them including the management
up to senior officers and Tom Watson MP to find out exactly
why they have decided not to question, under caution, Kenneth
Clarke MP over serious allegations that I have made and committed
to a Police statement."

http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/20...t-2517078.html


Now, what we know about Exaro? Who exactly are they?

http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...rk-watts-exaro

What is their role in Fernbridge? Is there one? Should there
be one? They report on the cases, often with first scoops.
They also have a firm place within the investigations:-


http://www.exaronews.com/articles/47...of-child-abuse




(you had to pay on Exaro at first also)



Watts:




MOST IMPORTANTLY PERHAPS,
The MI5/MI6/SAS link:-

Again, on Mary Moss' blog, she copied another letter she received
from one Paul Settle himself. In it, he describes the
involvement of these same 3 agencies.
Worryingly, several of these
very same government agencies were involved in;

- the implementation of the guesthouse,

- the organisation of the guesthouse, and

- the covering up of the goings - on of the guesthouse.


...."We are currently using resources of National TV, the
internet and of an army of highly trained sensitive specialist
police officers who are tracking down the victims. We have
been given unlimited resources and have the assistance of
MI5 and 6 as well as the S.A.S in finding these abusive criminals
and bringing a credible investigation to the public's attention to
show future abusers we mean business."
http://legalaidcuts.blogspot.co.uk/2...-searched.html

Finally we have a long long list of alleged MET police officers and detectives connected to the Elm Guest House on the 'MM' documents.


Many more characters I could analyse................and will.

Boy, have we been in the thick of one big stinking cover up!

Nice one Disco.

Why would the SAS be involved?
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Old 20-09-2013, 11:17 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetcheeks View Post
As well as the Elm link with Colin Peters, we also suggested a striking resemblance to Alan Delaney in one of the Moss documents of a photograph of a young boy and a man with a moon shaped face and large glasses.

http://ukpaedos-exposed.com/2012/07/...tlandhounslow/

Yep. Surely Chris Fay could identify him, or MM.
In the course of discussions such as they had with Carole Kasir, if you didn't recognise the person in a photo then you'd ask who the hell it was wouldn't you.
That particular pic was included for a reason.
I wonder if that one picture was all the pictures MM had in those documents or if there were more.
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Old 20-09-2013, 11:22 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post
Nice one Disco.

Why would the SAS be involved?
+1
The mind boggles.

and same thoughts on Chris Fay and delaney photo^^
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Old 20-09-2013, 11:24 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discovery77 View Post

Finally we have a long long list of alleged MET police officers and detectives connected to the Elm Guest House on the 'MM' documents.
Chris Fay has clarified that these referred to the raid team.
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Old 20-09-2013, 11:32 PM   #53
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SAS Squadrons

22 SAS Regiment has four operational squadrons: A, B, D and G. Each squadron consists of approximately 60 men commanded by a major, divided into four troops (each troop being commanded by a captain) and a small headquarters section.[38][53] Troops usually consist of 16 men,[40] and each patrol within a troop consists of four men, with each man possessing a particular skill: signals, demolition, medic or linguist in addition to basic skills learned during the course of his training.[53] The four troops specialise in four different areas:

Boat troop — are specialists in maritime skills using scuba diving, kayaks and Rigid-hulled inflatable boats and often train with the Special Boat Service.[54]

Air troop — are experts in free fall parachuting, High Altitude-Low Opening (HALO) and High Altitude-High Opening (HAHO) techniques.[54]

Mobility troop — are specialists in using vehicles and are experts in desert warfare;[55] they are also trained in an advanced level of motor mechanics to field-repair any vehicular breakdown.[56]

Mountain troop — are specialists in Arctic combat and survival, using specialist equipment such as skis, snowshoes and mountain climbing techniques.[54]



(and they've obviously forgotten to mention the MI5 MI6 SAS Paedophile troop)

Last edited by dopey; 20-09-2013 at 11:33 PM.
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Old 20-09-2013, 11:38 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post
A sophisticated network of people who molested hundreds of children, some as young as 10 years old.

The ring was used by highly placed civil servants and well-known public figures.

Children claimed they were trafficked to Amsterdam and abused.

Boys were rented out at a VIP brothel

Grafton Close care home features in the investigation.

Boys abused in a sauna.


Now that sounds just like Elm Guest House doesn't it?
Except it isn't.
It's describing the Colin Peters, Alan Delaney, Ernest Whittington, Victor Burnett ring. A ring described as being run "like the mafia".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...l-8518078.html

650 offences recorded, against 150 boys

"The investigation led them to conclude that "we have only scraped the surface of the paedophile menace in Britain"".

"There were suggestions that boys were taken to Amsterdam, but we did not have time to investigate. It was a year-long investigation and Amsterdam was one of a number of leads. We just didn't have time to look at it in detail."

"Detectives said the abuse spanned a five-year period and the charges were only specimens – meaning that the abuse was much wider than documented in court".

Just some of the quotes from this article.

Another common denominator- Colin Peters was named as a visitor and abuser at Elm guest house.

High level abusers and the same old story rolled out time and again- no time to investigate, no evidence.

There was obviously the evidence to arrest and convict these four men.

But no time or evidence to pursue the more highly placed abusers.

I haven't read this article in months but reading it with fresh eyes tonight and, for me anyway, what's staring me in the face is that this is the same ring. It's not a similar ring to Elm- it's the same bloody ring.

The Peters ring were arrested in 1988, and convicted in early 1989.

When did Carole Kasir suddenly develop a guilty conscience and decide to start spilling the beans to NAYPAC?
That fits in well with one of the newspaper cuttings
I posted yesterday, Post #38: "The ring is also
believed to have used other addresses".

If that's the case, then I'm sure it is known
'exactly' where they were, and are, and how
they fit into the larger picture. There seems
to be a definite 'overlap' with Elm, to put it mildly.
In fact, it 'totally' smacks of the same operation.

Exactly the same modus operandi.

More questions that need answering.

This is not going to go away. The pieces are beginning
to fall into place.
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Old 20-09-2013, 11:38 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetcheeks View Post
WHO are they protecting that is so BLOODY important?????
Top hats and royalty

Quote:
As my source said, “top hats and royalty”, meaning the English upper classes and people connected to the Royal Family, were part of a wider homosexual ring in which Mc Grath was an integral player.’
http://www.martindillon.net/work1.htm
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Old 20-09-2013, 11:42 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post
SAS Squadrons

22 SAS Regiment has four operational squadrons: A, B, D and G. Each squadron consists of approximately 60 men commanded by a major, divided into four troops (each troop being commanded by a captain) and a small headquarters section.[38][53] Troops usually consist of 16 men,[40] and each patrol within a troop consists of four men, with each man possessing a particular skill: signals, demolition, medic or linguist in addition to basic skills learned during the course of his training.[53] The four troops specialise in four different areas:

Boat troop — are specialists in maritime skills using scuba diving, kayaks and Rigid-hulled inflatable boats and often train with the Special Boat Service.[54]

Air troop — are experts in free fall parachuting, High Altitude-Low Opening (HALO) and High Altitude-High Opening (HAHO) techniques.[54]

Mobility troop — are specialists in using vehicles and are experts in desert warfare;[55] they are also trained in an advanced level of motor mechanics to field-repair any vehicular breakdown.[56]

Mountain troop — are specialists in Arctic combat and survival, using specialist equipment such as skis, snowshoes and mountain climbing techniques.[54]



(and they've obviously forgotten to mention the MI5 MI6 SAS Paedophile troop)
Puts an even more ominous slant on it doesnt it. What the f*ck does the 'paedophile' troop get up to???!
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Old 20-09-2013, 11:45 PM   #57
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As for the newspaper cuttings.

The articles were published at the time the story first broke.
So, I'm stating off building the picture in the same way it took
shape back then.

The Elm documents were written in relatively the same period,
but they only came to light fairly recently. So, after the 'cuttings',
my next job is a revisiting of the documents. Going over them yet
'again', but this time in the light of what we've learnt since they
first appeared, and, also, going over them with 'new eyes', as if for
the first time.
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Old 20-09-2013, 11:51 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post
Yep. Surely Chris Fay could identify him, or MM.
In the course of discussions such as they had with Carole Kasir, if you didn't recognise the person in a photo then you'd ask who the hell it was wouldn't you.
That particular pic was included for a reason.
I wonder if that one picture was all the pictures MM had in those documents or if there were more.
Perhaps that one photograph was given as the 'link', to help us to bring this together?
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Old 20-09-2013, 11:58 PM   #59
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I personally think there are loads of photos and other documents still in existence, and someone has them - or several, and doesnt want to let go of them. Obviously.

Also, Harry Kasir has had some major bargaining material, especially if these stories about CPS dropping charges against him are true, which after this, I can bloody well believe.

Probably already in the USA.

Last edited by discovery77; 21-09-2013 at 12:00 AM.
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Old 21-09-2013, 12:00 AM   #60
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Quote:
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Puts an even more ominous slant on it doesnt it. What the f*ck does the 'paedophile' troop get up to???!
Parachute in, cover things up, fix a few cars then abseil out.
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