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Old 02-03-2007, 11:16 AM   #21
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what is love? that's an important question. my definition would be, "love is. love is fascinated and delighted with whatever is going on in the moment."
But there wouldn't be anything going on. Just love love love. No need to think.
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Old 03-03-2007, 01:37 AM   #22
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But there wouldn't be anything going on. Just love love love. No need to think.
our perfection is held complete, in the very being of the infinite. the infinite creates; it can only create with what it has on hand: perfection. we are just having a bad dream. those that wish to linger in the dream, have that choice, like sleeping in when they could be taking their lab class lol.

bluestar: i realized that asuras were described in the vedic texts. just for my greater understanding, is this your background?
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Old 03-03-2007, 11:10 AM   #23
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Why would perfection have a bad dream? It can't be perfection is the answer.

No such thing as infinite love or perfection. You can get close though.
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Old 03-03-2007, 02:10 PM   #24
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Why would perfection have a bad dream? It can't be perfection is the answer.

No such thing as infinite love or perfection. You can get close though.
bottom line: if that's that you believe, that's what you will receive. "reality" is purely subjective anyway, imv.

The beast in me
Is caged by frail and fragile bars
Restless by day
And by night rants and rages at the stars
God help the beast in me

The beast in me
Has had to learn to live with pain
And how to shelter from the rain
And in the twinkling of an eye
Might have to be restrained
God help the beast in me

Sometimes it tries to kid me
That it's just a teddy bear
And even somehow manage to vanish in the air
And that is when I must beware
Of the beast in me that everybody knows
They've seen him out dressed in my clothes
Patently unclear if it's New York or New Year
God help the beast in me


-nick lowe

why it should be so sometimes remains a mystery to me.

Last edited by tru3; 03-03-2007 at 02:15 PM. Reason: postscript
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Old 03-03-2007, 08:08 PM   #25
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I don't know about this thread, but personally, I know I just gotta be evil cause I'm drinking milwaukee's best (AKA the BEAST) and listening to Led Zeppelin who were influenced by Aleister Crowley (AKA the BEAST). hahaha
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Old 05-03-2007, 01:28 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by tru3 View Post
bottom line: if that's that you believe, that's what you will receive. "reality" is purely subjective anyway, imv. The beast in me
Is caged by frail and fragile bars
Restless by day
And by night rants and rages at the stars
God help the beast in me

The beast in me
Has had to learn to live with pain
And how to shelter from the rain
And in the twinkling of an eye
Might have to be restrained
God help the beast in me

Sometimes it tries to kid me
That it's just a teddy bear
And even somehow manage to vanish in the air
And that is when I must beware
Of the beast in me that everybody knows
They've seen him out dressed in my clothes
Patently unclear if it's New York or New Year
God help the beast in me


-nick lowe

why it should be so sometimes remains a mystery to me.
I think your logic is wrong on this though. I think my view answers why we are here. Can you come up with a reason why perfection is still perfection even though it has nightmares such as this world?

Logical reasoning is not creating my world.

If it is then I live in a logical world rather than a world that contradicts itself.

Who is nearer the truth?

And by logical I don't mean a world without miracle.

It's not logical that infinite perfection would fall. It's logical that imperfection would fall.
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Old 05-03-2007, 08:10 PM   #27
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I think your logic is wrong on this though. I think my view answers why we are here. Can you come up with a reason why perfection is still perfection even though it has nightmares such as this world?
hey,

i agree. our views do answer why we are here. this world is a nightmare, too, a dream within a dream. when i'm ready to wake up, i will. apparently, i'm sitting here, in front of my screen, typing these words either because i am in denial about the nature of this, or i have "unfinished business". the world to me is my mirror, indicating that i am still asleep. if i was awake, the whole universe would vanish. that works for me. it's up to every one ask their own questions and investigate their own answers.

my question is, "who is it that sees the screen?"

Quote:
Logical reasoning is not creating my world.
nor mine. what confused me for a long time was my own unconscious process of projecting my version of "logic" onto "god". how could a sane "god" create this mess?

i have come to the conclusion that "he" didn't. we did.

Quote:
If it is then I live in a logical world rather than a world that contradicts itself.
unfortunately, it seems due to the nature of quantum physics, there is always ambiguity. people hunger for certainty in this world. imv, there is none. to me, life is always a "both/and" propositon rather than an "either/or"

Quote:
Who is nearer the truth?
i pretty much end every post i make with "so it appears to me". i'm certainly not an ascended master-- if i was, we wouldn't be having this dialogue.

Quote:
And by logical I don't mean a world without miracle.
agreed.


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It's not logical that infinite perfection would fall. It's logical that imperfection would fall.
impeccably put. so who is having this dialogue, then?
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Old 06-03-2007, 12:08 AM   #28
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This piece came from another list recently and as it is in line with what is being spoken here-thought I would post it

from Journey into the World of Metaphysics by Chiappalone

Remember, all of creation is experimentation, is an experiment, and of course as experiments go wrong there are corrections and restarts.

In this particular sector, in the universe we are at now, a particular error occurred at one level of the hierarchy. And you will find it, for example, referred to in the Nag Hammadi texts as the Celestial error of the Pistis Sophia.

Now what happened with this error is this, and you must remember now that we are discussing things of an essence, of an energy and really we are anthropomorphisizing concepts into our own words to try and understand them:

A diverse polarity was created, at the level of hierarchy, and this polarity, this change, went against the polarity of the essence which created it.

In other words, it became opposite and that manifested in terms of what we can understand as an evil energy.

It went against the "Mother" energy that created it.

The adverse polarity became evil.

It became self-aggrandizing.

It became destructive.

It became exploitative.

These are all adjectives we're using in our own sense to try and understand it.

It went against all the rest of the creative energy, the creative force. And this is how evil evolved at that particular level.

At first energy from the Mother essence was poured in to try and change this error. But what was happening was that as the Mother was pouring in energy into this error, that energy was being incorporated. And instead of correcting the error it was making the error bigger. And it went on and on and on.

And as more energy was poured into this error the bigger it became, until it was realized that it could not be corrected by direct energy transfer. In actual fact it had to be totally destroyed, and a way had to be found for it to be destroyed.

Now what this means in our own terms is this: This evil essence is a mind, it is a consciousness and it immediately encapsulated the dimension that it had, and closed itself off from outside influences from the hierarchy. They could not penetrate it, and as far as we are concerned, what happened is that the more it removed itself from the Divine essence the more it solidified.

And so matter came into being. The energy solidified more and more.

Once this consciousness encapsulated the dimension it had, it also trapped the Divine consciousnesses that had been sent here into this dimension in the first place. And what we have is the expression that beings of Light were trapped in matter. Even Edgar Cayce said "The human soul has been trapped in these physical bodies."

A number of things happened when this polarity came into being and it went contrary to the Divine polarity. A CELESTIAL WAR occurred, because there was a constant fight between the Divine polarity and this negative polarity which had encapsulated itself.

So it built resistances to try and prevent correction. But of course it was only a matter of time, because nothing could resist the superior consciousness of the Divine which is the God consciousness.

In the meantime the evil essence did a number of things, apart from encapsulating itself and closing off the dimension which includes this universe. It made changes in order to self-perpetuate. Its basic aim was to extract the Divine energy from the beings that were trapped in the system in order for it to continue.

So all the systems it created in the material universe have been geared directly to exploiting the energy from the Divine beings it traps within its system.

Not only did it do that, but the consciousness of the demigod invaded other dimensions when it suited it, in order to extract energy.

There has been a celestial war between these two polarities since this error occurred, in a very small portion of creation. But it affects us, because this planet, this universe are in the trapped dimension. So we are in the midst of the celestial war that has been going on for a long, long time.
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Old 06-03-2007, 03:04 AM   #29
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You asked- another question: since 'ye shall know them by their fruits', how do you see this 'beast' manifesting in our world? i'm always looking to expand awareness and understand more deeply.


The weilding of such energies (black fire) results in absolute cruelty,premeditated and twisted intelligent evil to satiate pure lust. The asura seems to be certain beings who through wrong consciousness abstraction and alignment implode in ultimate denial of truth. They are so called "high occult beings" who merge into the titanic auric being, through extending and subverting their perosnalities into the"the undivine fire". They eventually collapse inwardly, twisting their aura and collapse their chakras into vortexes that resemble mini blackholes. Humanity in its self-seeking and trying to ascend through their fallen consiousness have opened the bottomless pit- so to speak to release those energies that until now have been sealed "well below".
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Old 06-03-2007, 06:02 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by bluestar View Post
You asked- another question: since 'ye shall know them by their fruits', how do you see this 'beast' manifesting in our world? i'm always looking to expand awareness and understand more deeply.


The weilding of such energies (black fire) results in absolute cruelty,premeditated and twisted intelligent evil to satiate pure lust. The asura seems to be certain beings who through wrong consciousness abstraction and alignment implode in ultimate denial of truth. They are so called "high occult beings" who merge into the titanic auric being, through extending and subverting their perosnalities into the"the undivine fire". They eventually collapse inwardly, twisting their aura and collapse their chakras into vortexes that resemble mini blackholes. Humanity in its self-seeking and trying to ascend through their fallen consiousness have opened the bottomless pit- so to speak to release those energies that until now have been sealed "well below".
Geez Louise it's things like this that get my paranoia going full speed.

Is it me? Am I the evil one? I am all too willing to torture myself with that possibility. Some of the things I have gone through would seem to indicate that.

Please tell me it ain't so and I'll believe it. Until the next time I read something like this and need to get straightened out again.

s
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Old 06-03-2007, 06:29 AM   #31
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You asked- another question: since 'ye shall know them by their fruits', how do you see this 'beast' manifesting in our world? i'm always looking to expand awareness and understand more deeply.

i'm not sure who you addressed the question to, but i'm going to step in into the breach.

it's funny you should ask that question; it's really been on my mind as of late. i want to thank you, bluestar, for bringing this information to the forum. it's jarred something loose in me that has really allowed me to relax and allow the hidden to emerge.

when you begin to talk about the asura, i knew i had heard that term. when you shared what you were aware of, it caused another association to emerge.

grab a cup of coffee, folks.

please take a look at the following link:

http://www.khandro.net/dakini_queen.htm

i remembered seeing this several years ago, especially the poem. it moved me deeply:

To the hungry I was heaps of food and all good things, and thus I brought them joy.

To the cold and freezing I was fire and sun-warmth, thus their joy.

To the poor and needy I was wealth and riches, thus their joy.

To the naked I was every kind of raiment, thus their joy.

To the childless I was sons and daughters, thus their joy.

To those who wandered in the bardo state, I was their yidam, bringing them to joy.

I cooled the burning heat and warmed the cold of those lost in the realms of hell.

Howsoever they were tortured, I changed myself to shield them, being thus their joy.

To those who lingered in the land of hungry ghosts, I was their food and drink and thus their joy.

I was freedom from stupidity and servitude for those caught in the wordless state of beasts--and thus I brought them joy.

Those beings born in savage lands -- I turned them from barbarity and brought them joy.

I was a truce from war and strife for the asuras and was thus their joy.

The gods I guarded from their bitter fall and I was thus their joy.

I shielded all from everything that tortured them and was their every joy.

Wherever there is space, five elements pervade,
Wherever the five elements, the homes of living beings,
Wherever living beings, karma and defilements,
Wherever is defilement, my compassion also.
Wherever is the need of beings, there I am to help them.

And thus I remained for twenty years in the great cavern of Lhodrak Kharchu, sometimes visible, sometimes invisible."


this was supposedly written by the incarnation of the white tara, the supreme dakini. here is a picture of the white tara.

[IMG][/IMG]

now, dakini are kindred spirits to the asura, from what i understand. they are what the asura would be had they not denied the divine. they are beings of compassion created out of divine love to serve all sentient being; they are if you will, genies that grant our every wish, and mirror back to us our deepest desires, and our deepest nightmares, in love and service, to help us tear free from the bonds of illusion and suffering.

if you care to follow some of the links on this page, you will find some interesting passages. this is one about the "black dakini":

I may be of help to the aspirant, but I am dangerous
For I will take away all he possesses
If he gives them up gladly,
we will dance together in their ashes
But if he clings to them
He will lose his mind and his heart.

I seek only beings ready for full liberation
Leave all behind and we will find beauty
In the emptiness that remains.


so this is the "wrathful deity" of tibetan buddhism. i believe this is the correct form:



now, this is where the story really starts to get very, very interesting (at least to me lol)...

i was in meditation, maybe about 3 years ago, and before me appeared a form that appeared something like this:



i wasn't afraid, i just let "it" know i was completely harmless, and consciously emanated only love to the form. it dissolved, as forms will, lol

"Vajrayogini, is a representation of complete buddhahood in female form. Classified as Wisdom or 'Mother' Anuttarayoga Tantra the practices originate with the Chakrasamvara Cycle of Tantras. Although found in a variety of forms, she is common to all schools of Tibetan Buddhism. In this particular form she is a special teaching passed down from the lineage of the Indian mahasiddha Naropa through to the Sakya School. This form is also popular within the Gelugpa Tradition.

she is semiwrathful, because she strips away illusion, still working in compassion with sentient being.

okay, so this happened maybe one more time. months go past. then one day, the form below appears to me, in a flash, locked gaze with me, and then vanished:



this is the green tara, the dakini of active compassion skillful means. using the right communication technique at the right time to promote the surrender of illusion.

so, short and sweet. a few more months go by. now the following form appears or something close:

Ritro Loma Chen
An emanation of Tara that is golden, with three faces and six arms. Her power helps overcome plagues and epidemics, and illnesses new to the world. Those who suffer from incurable conditions can still benefit from her blessings.


this form reappeared, continuosly, for about 3 months, then faded. that was about a year ago. nothing like these forms has appeared since.

here's what's interesting and ties in with the theme of this thread, imv.

The first obstruction is the personal defilements of mind: the defilements are the five poisons: ignorance, desire, aversion, pride and jealousy. The second demonic influence is the obstruction of false contentment which is somewhat like pride. One takes for granted good situations thinking that they will go on forever: this is a very big obstacle because it wastes opportunities. The third demonic influence that obstructs the realization of enlightenment is based on self-holding and other-holding. The mind zig zags back and forth from "I like this" and "I don't like that" "this is pretty, that is not" "I need this" "I don't need that". Our mind enticed by the appearance of objects goes to the object and becomes dynamically involved there, totally seduced by samsaric appearances. The fourth obstruction is the root of the other three obstructions, the self-centeredness of one's "I".

The method to cut through these demonic influences is called Chod. One's pure motivation is the blade that cuts though the faults of self-centeredness.


Chod is the practice of generosity with one's most valuable possession, the body. There is nothing we value more, so this is what we use as our gift. Our mind is deathless, our body is not, so we transfer our mind out of our body and pure mind stands complete in space. The body, like a shell, is an empty remain.[sic] Through mantra and visualization, the practitioner transforms the body into a vast and wholesome offering of whatever would be satisfying. The offering is not just substance, but it is also wisdom nectar which fills the vastness of space. This is then offered to all of the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, to any and all wisdom beings beyond the limit of our understanding. Further it is offered to every sentient being whoever they are, wherever they are. Whatever their particular need is is completely met by this offering and they're completely satisfied and fulfilled immediately and ultimately.


at least to me, this sounds remarkably like the "non resistance" passage you cited. and i feel that this is what eckhart tolle means when he writes "say yes".

so, with respect to asuras, i'm not sure what i think. i do believe that these forms described as dakinis are simply great wisdom mirrors, reflecting back to us our state of consciousness at a particular point in time.

concurrently while these forms were appearing for me, i was doing a tremendous amount of clearing, simplifying and letting go of "earth school" stuff: finances, livelihood, relationship, emotional baggage, sexual hangups. as i began to let these things just arise, and not try to numb out or lash out, the form began to change. these weren't different distinct beings, imv; it was the same bodhisattva coming to me in various guises.



i mean, how could you tell the difference between an asura and the black dakini? only in stillness and nonresistance, it would seem to me.

so, i'll leave you to ponder all this, and also a quote from the movie "jacob's ladder":

Louis: [Meister] Eckhart saw Hell too. He said: The only thing that burns in Hell is the part of you that won't let go of life, your memories, your attachments. They burn them all away. But they're not punishing you, he said. They're freeing your soul. So, if you're frightened of dying and... and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.

so it appears to me

Last edited by tru3; 06-03-2007 at 06:39 AM. Reason: doh! typos!
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Old 06-03-2007, 06:54 AM   #32
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Geez Louise it's things like this that get my paranoia going full speed.

Is it me? Am I the evil one? I am all too willing to torture myself with that possibility. Some of the things I have gone through would seem to indicate that.

Please tell me it ain't so and I'll believe it. Until the next time I read something like this and need to get straightened out again.

s

seamus,

i know my last post was longish, but i hope you read it. i feel like you and i are kindred spirits, mate. there really is nothing to fear. all that is required is the willingness to let go. in my case it was my past. i still carry it, but i bounce back in an hour when 5 or 6 years ago it would have taken me a month. it's a slow gradual process. i learned to be patient with myself, forgiving as best i could everyone and everything that came up, including and most importantly, myself.

i think here's a piece of hopeful wisdom, from the khandro.net site, that really made sense:

For us, non-realization of our absolute nature is not because we once realized our nature and then forgot it. It isn't that we had it and then lost it. The essential primary nature of absolute purity is innate in our being. Non-actualized purity is ignorance and so ignorance must be cut. It must be destroyed. It must be liberated.

we have all that we need. what obscures it is all the gunk. regardless of how it got there, only i can choose to let it go. only then will Infinite Love shine forth. in fact, it's here right now, waiting for us to let go of the illusion. we already are that which we seek!

all is well, seamus! peace, bro'!

Last edited by tru3; 06-03-2007 at 07:04 AM.
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Old 06-03-2007, 07:01 AM   #33
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That is... just beautiful.

Thank you.

s

Woowoo another post number 33! Looks like that's my master number! clock says 2:04. What number is circled? 3! 234 sheesh time for bed.
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Old 06-03-2007, 12:51 PM   #34
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hey,

i agree. our views do answer why we are here. this world is a nightmare, too, a dream within a dream. when i'm ready to wake up, i will. apparently, i'm sitting here, in front of my screen, typing these words either because i am in denial about the nature of this, or i have "unfinished business". the world to me is my mirror, indicating that i am still asleep. if i was awake, the whole universe would vanish. that works for me. it's up to every one ask their own questions and investigate their own answers.

my question is, "who is it that sees the screen?"
Why would you be here looking at a screen?

Why would you have unfinished business? You are part of the infinite perfection. You would have no business. No need to do anything or be anything. You wouldn't be asleep or awake.

You wouldn't be here, in short.

Hence no lasting perfection.

This isn't my view of my world it's my view of the world of some people here.

People who believe in the infinite perfection.

This model doesn't work.
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Old 06-03-2007, 12:53 PM   #35
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And icke offers no solution to why a part of The Infinite became deluded.

Why would it become deluded?

And why only a part?

Surely we are one.

A part of it falling would seem to suggest that we are NOT one. But similar.
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Old 06-03-2007, 02:15 PM   #36
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And icke offers no solution to why a part of The Infinite became deluded.

Why would it become deluded?

And why only a part?

Surely we are one.

A part of it falling would seem to suggest that we are NOT one. But similar.
you know, i have to be honest, at my age, "why" is becoming a less and less important question, albie. "why" is a question for a young man. lol i applaud you for looking for your own answers.

does it really matter why, when one has lost a child? or any loved one?

all explanations become useless in the face of deep loss and overwhelming grief, at least for most people.

all i can say was that, imv, this was an experiment. and with some experiments, sometime the beaker blows up in one's hand.
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Old 06-03-2007, 02:56 PM   #37
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all explanations become useless in the face of deep loss and overwhelming grief, at least for most people.

all i can say was that, imv, this was an experiment. and with some experiments, sometime the beaker blows up in one's hand.

As much as I hate to, here I go quoting the Grateful Dead again...

"Baby who's to say it should have been different, now that it's done?
Baby, who's to say it should have been anyway?
Baby who's to say that it even matters in the long run?
Give it just a minute,
And it will blow away,
It'll blow away."

"Blow Away", Mydland/Barlow

I believe there's hope that we will all, or almost all, continue to evolve upward and eventually rejoin the original collective. I'm not referring to the collective consciousness that holds sway over this planet, of course.

s
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Old 06-03-2007, 03:23 PM   #38
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you know, i have to be honest, at my age, "why" is becoming a less and less important question, albie. "why" is a question for a young man. lol i applaud you for looking for your own answers.

does it really matter why, when one has lost a child? or any loved one?

all explanations become useless in the face of deep loss and overwhelming grief, at least for most people.

all i can say was that, imv, this was an experiment. and with some experiments, sometime the beaker blows up in one's hand.
An experiment would suggest imperfection. That they were attempting to discover more. Which means they were imperfect. Or as I think is the case, can never know if they have reached the heights of consciousness.

The Infinite can never know if another higher form is watching it.

God is paranoid, in other words.

This world we live in maybe a variation on what brought The infinite into being.

Who is to say anything has gone wrong?

Suffering maybe a vital ingredient. God is making sure he didn't miss something the first time around.

Something that could bring about a newer state of grace.

Or maybe he's torturing us to force the hand of a higher entity?
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Old 06-03-2007, 05:10 PM   #39
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Geez Louise it's things like this that get my paranoia going full speed.

Is it me? Am I the evil one? I am all too willing to torture myself with that possibility. Some of the things I have gone through would seem to indicate that.

Please tell me it ain't so and I'll believe it. Until the next time I read something like this and need to get straightened out again.

s
"It ain't so", said I AM ALL I AM.

PERFECTION BEYOND COMPARE

FAMILY YOU ARE TO ME,
AND THIS TRUTH I WILL SHARE,
I GIVE YOU MY LOVE FOR FREE,
FOR YOU ARE PERFECTION BEYOND COMPARE.

THIS IS WHO YOU TRULY ARE,
AND KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE,
WHETHER I AM NEAR OR FAR,
THAT I BELIEVE IN YOU.


Infinite unconditional love, is beyond judgement and therefore perfect, and who you truly are.


With LOVE.
_________________________________

WHEN PAIRD OPPOSITES DEFINE YOUR BELIEFS, YOUR BELIEFS WILL IMPRISON YOU.

Last edited by i am all i am; 07-03-2007 at 02:36 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 06-03-2007, 06:42 PM   #40
tru3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albie View Post
An experiment would suggest imperfection. That they were attempting to discover more. Which means they were imperfect. Or as I think is the case, can never know if they have reached the heights of consciousness.

The Infinite can never know if another higher form is watching it.

God is paranoid, in other words.

This world we live in maybe a variation on what brought The infinite into being.

Who is to say anything has gone wrong?

Suffering maybe a vital ingredient. God is making sure he didn't miss something the first time around.

Something that could bring about a newer state of grace.

Or maybe he's torturing us to force the hand of a higher entity?
i think these are pretty good questions, albie. here's a couple of others i ponder:

what if-- just, what if? we are all boddhisattvas, all buddhamind, here to help force the hand of this "higher" entity?

what if there are no victims, just volunteers?
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