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Old 04-06-2014, 09:47 PM   #161
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But the word 'wog' is a corruption of the word 'gollywog.' that word was invented by upton herself. She didn't take a racist word and apply it to the gollywog. She invented the word, and it subsequently became a racist slur. The same would have happened to any word she invented....
No, she made a word, and she made caricatures of black people in her book, i.e. the images of the golliwogs. There are several very offensive names for blacks and other racial groups. It's not the word, it's their evolution into racist labels, full of vitriol. Upton though, got the ball rolling with her fuckwitted depiction of blacks. Caricatures. Not to mention, it was not at all a peaceful time for blacks in the USA, where she came from. Please see the link:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=e...lliwog&f=false
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Old 04-06-2014, 09:49 PM   #162
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Yes it was. It's very image is a caricature of black people. That in itself is a racist representation. Have a look at the link of the well-researched book in which golliwogs are researched.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=e...lliwog&f=false

The first book by that prick Upton was titled: "The Adventures of Two Dutch Dolls and a Golliwog" - 1895.
And have I have said. The book is still a product of it's time. Any racial stereotyping is unintentional....
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Old 04-06-2014, 09:51 PM   #163
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No, she made a word, and she made caricatures of black people in her book, i.e. the images of the golliwogs. There are several very offensive names for blacks and other racial groups. It's not the word, it's their evolution into racist labels, full of vitriol. Upton though, got the ball rolling with her fuckwitted depiction of blacks. Caricatures. Not to mention, it was not at all a peaceful time for blacks in the USA, where she came from. Please see the link:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=e...lliwog&f=false
She had no control over the evolution of that word. Are you saying that they should have been no black figures in fiction until we were mature enough to handle them maturely.

Don't you understand how racist that it?.....
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Old 04-06-2014, 09:57 PM   #164
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She had no control over the evolution of that word. Are you saying that they should have been no black figures in fiction until we were mature enough to handle them maturely.

Don't you understand how racist that it?.....
WTF? Are you saying that portraying blacks falsely and in a racist way is good?

Please, don't even try to paint me as a racist. Golliwogs are a racist creation. Caricatures of black people. I've explained already. It's not about the word, it's about her original depiction of them. She got the ball rolling, in the literary world, regarding golliwogs. As they were based on minstrels, who in turn were racist enactments and dramatisations of blacks, you should get the picture by now?

You want to call people 'golliwogs'? What's your focus on the word? I have no idea what you are actually after? The word is tied to the image. The image is a caricature of blacks.
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Old 04-06-2014, 09:59 PM   #165
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And have I have said. The book is still a product of it's time. Any racial stereotyping is unintentional....
No, they were entirely racially stereotyped. The writer was a dumb idiot. The images were caricatures of blacks, and the whole idea of their dressing for example came from the minstrels, who yet again were another racist phenomenon.

The racial stereotyping was intentional, or she would have portrayed them as human, at least, not as exaggerated versions of how people look.
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Old 04-06-2014, 10:05 PM   #166
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Yes it was. It's very image is a caricature of black people. That in itself is a racist representation. Have a look at the link of the well-researched book in which golliwogs are researched.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=e...lliwog&f=false

The first book by that prick Upton was titled: "The Adventures of Two Dutch Dolls and a Golliwog" - 1895.
Your propaganda book conveniently omits :

but who quickly turned out to be a friendly character, and is later attributed with a "kind face.
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Old 04-06-2014, 10:06 PM   #167
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WTF? Are you saying that portraying blacks falsely and in a racist way is good?

Please, don't even try to paint me as a racist. Golliwogs are a racist creation. Caricatures of black people. I've explained already. It's not about the word, it's about her original depiction of them. She got the ball rolling, in the literary world, regarding golliwogs. As they were based on minstrels, who in turn were racist enactments and dramatisations of blacks, you should get the picture by now?

You want to call people 'golliwogs'? What's your focus on the word? I have no idea what you are actually after? The word is tied to the image. The image is a caricature of blacks.
I don't want to call anyone a 'gollywog'. But the point I trying to make is, she didn't create the caricature of the black minstrel, she just grew up with that image around her. At a time when there was nothing wrong with that image, why wouldn't she innocently use it?

But the word gollywog, itself had not pre-existing rascal meaning, until people changed it. This was out of her control. Her depiction of the golly wog, wad by and largely positive. He may have had the minstrel thing going on, but he certainly wasn't a slave. And mostly, receives a positive portrayal....

Would you ban the swatstika because of it's Nazi connection, even though it was original a hindu peace symbol. Or hitles moustache, even though he grew it to emulated charley chaplain? Why ban anything. Isn't that fascistic in itself?...
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Old 04-06-2014, 10:10 PM   #168
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No, they were entirely racially stereotyped. The writer was a dumb idiot. The images were caricatures of blacks, and the whole idea of their dressing for example came from the minstrels, who yet again were another racist phenomenon.

The racial stereotyping was intentional, or she would have portrayed them as human, at least, not as exaggerated versions of how people look.
That is very hateful. Why would she have portrayed them as human, its a childrens book, they are meant to be dolls? Clearly Minstrels were her source of reference as far as black people went. As they were interesting characters she thought they would make fun dolls. Nothing nasty there.


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Old 04-06-2014, 10:12 PM   #169
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Your propaganda book conveniently omits :

but who quickly turned out to be a friendly character, and is later attributed with a "kind face.
What can I say. I didn't read the book about about gollywogs. I just spent this afternoon reading the original story.
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Old 04-06-2014, 10:16 PM   #170
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That is very hateful. Why would she have portrayed them as human, its a childrens book, they are meant to be dolls? Clearly Minstrels were her source of reference as far as black people went. As they were interesting characters she thought they would make fun dolls. Nothing nasty there.

This is a picture taken from the story i found online, and read this afternoon. A bunch of toys come to life on Christmas night, and get up to mischief. It's a delightful story. Of it's time, of course. I've got collection of old 40's comics and cartoon, that have to have disclaimers pointing out the racism (even in bugs bunnies.) the usual line is, it would be worst to cut this sort of racism out, because it would be like the racism never existed. That would be just as bad.
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Old 04-06-2014, 10:44 PM   #171
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Golliwog and accurately depicted native black people. Golliwog is therefore a Minstrel Doll, and not just Miss Upton's caricature of all black people.

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Old 04-06-2014, 10:51 PM   #172
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Golliwog and accurately depicted native black people. Golliwog is therefore a Minstrel Doll, and not just Miss Upton's caricature of all black people.

Even the natives aren't that racist, alowing for time, obviously.....
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Old 04-06-2014, 10:56 PM   #173
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Yes. He quite clearly a black (the colour, not the skin type.) gnome....
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Old 05-06-2014, 08:31 AM   #174
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I know this is derailing the thread somewhat, but what is going on in that picture!?

I looks like an axe of the left and a severed head by a pool of blood on the right!

And is that on old pistol in the middle?
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Old 05-06-2014, 09:28 AM   #175
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Your propaganda book conveniently omits :

but who quickly turned out to be a friendly character, and is later attributed with a "kind face.
Er, it's not a propaganda book.

I asked you for the proof: who, where, what decided that it had a "kind face", AND more importantly, what does a kind face matter on a caricature of blacks?
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Old 05-06-2014, 09:30 AM   #176
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And have I have said. The book is still a product of it's time. Any racial stereotyping is unintentional....
No, it was intentional. Do some research. Ask some blacks, read about the slavery going on globally at that time. Read about the treatment of blacks even though slavery was abolished. You want to pretend that golliwogs are a sweet little toy. Sorry, they never were, and never will be.
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Old 05-06-2014, 09:34 AM   #177
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She had no control over the evolution of that word. Are you saying that they should have been no black figures in fiction until we were mature enough to handle them maturely.

Don't you understand how racist that it?.....
Why are you banging on about the word? Are you not able to understand that she could have named them 'biscuits' for all that mattered but if you apply the word to a caricature of a race, it then takes on a derogatory meaning, if that race also happens to have been the one bought, sold, beaten, whipped, raped, deprived etc.

What is this single-minded obsession with the word? It's the entire entity. Stop trying to pass off racism by saying well the word is fine, the doll is not, so we can call people golliwogs. The word was never fine. The word was a label for the caricatures of blacks, such caricatures modelled on the blackfaces/minstrels, who in turn were racist and derogatory depictions/enactments of blacks.
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Old 05-06-2014, 09:36 AM   #178
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I don't want to call anyone a 'gollywog'. But the point I trying to make is, she didn't create the caricature of the black minstrel, she just grew up with that image around her. At a time when there was nothing wrong with that image, why wouldn't she innocently use it?

But the word gollywog, itself had not pre-existing rascal meaning, until people changed it. This was out of her control. Her depiction of the golly wog, wad by and largely positive. He may have had the minstrel thing going on, but he certainly wasn't a slave. And mostly, receives a positive portrayal....

Would you ban the swatstika because of it's Nazi connection, even though it was original a hindu peace symbol. Or hitles moustache, even though he grew it to emulated charley chaplain? Why ban anything. Isn't that fascistic in itself?...
Sigh. She grew up in a time when blacks were treated like shit. So, therefore, it's okay that she caricaturised them? It's okay that they're drawn and depicted as ugly monsters?

I don't think you want to learn or understand the historical context and the hatred felt towards blacks at that time. The minstrels were also a racist depiction/enactment of blacks.

PMSL, you're trying to rewrite history.
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Old 05-06-2014, 09:37 AM   #179
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That is very hateful. Why would she have portrayed them as human, its a childrens book, they are meant to be dolls? Clearly Minstrels were her source of reference as far as black people went. As they were interesting characters she thought they would make fun dolls. Nothing nasty there.

Is that because you say so? Or is it because you wish to defend racism?

They were not portrayed as human. Golliwogs look human to you? They were caricatures of blacks. They were inspired by minstrels. Minstrels were a way to denigrate and mock blacks.
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Old 05-06-2014, 09:41 AM   #180
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What can I say. I didn't read the book about about gollywogs. I just spent this afternoon reading the original story.
What can I say, I spent much of my life watching stupid Hollywood movies, and reading mainstream books, until I woke up and realised the programming in them.

You read the original story, and you liked it. Good for YOU. Not for one of the global racial majorities who are portrayed like that.

Well, when you meet blacks you can tell them how much you like golliwog stories.
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