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Old 01-04-2011, 12:23 PM   #801
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Originally Posted by thunda View Post
.. and he wants another Somalia.

NOTE: Just thought I'd drop that in as my earlier post on Somalia had been conveniently ignored.
Keep the ad-hominems coming lads
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Old 01-04-2011, 12:26 PM   #802
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I've seen the majority of arguments countered and refuted.
OK here's your big chance.

I'm going to ask you and you can use the answers supposedly already provided to answer.

Q) In an anarchist community, does the community have a body of representatives to make hundreds perhaps thousands of daily decisions for the community or does the whole community vote on everything every time?

Well?
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Old 01-04-2011, 12:26 PM   #803
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Originally Posted by thunda View Post
.. and he wants another Somalia.

NOTE: Just thought I'd drop that in as my earlier post on Somalia had been conveniently ignored.
Lots of violence in Somalia = no anarchy.
People stealing off each other = no anarchy.

See what I mean?
Endless strawman allegations....
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Old 01-04-2011, 12:27 PM   #804
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Keep the ad-hominems coming lads
Oh the irony.
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Old 01-04-2011, 12:27 PM   #805
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As I've highlighted earlier in this thread .. For Amaralsright - or me - or you - or anybody for that matter - to provide for themselves and their family in the way that you speak of, would require 16 hours a day in the fields - thats the wheat field, the vegetable field, the livestock field, the orchard (so we meet our daily nutritional needs) .. would require 16 hours a day in the fields to provide enough food for you, your better half and your 2.5 children to live for one year. Not to mention the numerous daily 10 mile round-trips to the nearest river (or further!) - to supply enough clean drinking water, per year, for your family to fill 16 olympic sized swimming pools.

So its begs the question - would you have time to provide for Amaralsright and his family if he did suffer such affliction?

And also, a question I've asked numerous times (even though you think nobody would require a hospital) - who would have the time to build a friggin' hospital given the time and energy expended on just trying to stay alive?? Or work in the hospital. Or build a school. Or work in a school. Or dig for resources. Or form a vigalante group .. ermm .. security firm. Or build a house. Or fix a house. Or lay a road. Or .. or .. or .. or .. or .. or ..

Practicalities ...
Oh I get it now.

Perhaps one day when the last hypothetical argument against autonomy, self ownership, independence has been worn out you might begin to realise how self defeating your attitude is..
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Old 01-04-2011, 12:32 PM   #806
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Originally Posted by amaralsright View Post
OK here's your big chance.

I'm going to ask you and you can use the answers supposedly already provided to answer.

Q) In an anarchist community, does the community have a body of representatives to make hundreds perhaps thousands of daily decisions for the community or does the whole community vote on everything every time?

Well?
It depends which path of anarchy is taken...
There are different types.
It is up to you to look into them and see the logic behind how each of them would work rather than come on a web forum crying about how nobody can tell you how it works therefore dismissing the ideas. - which seems the case.
There are countless texts on this matter; how many have you read?

Self responsibility includes the need for you to learn for yourself..
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Old 01-04-2011, 12:34 PM   #807
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Originally Posted by theabominablephenomenon View Post
It depends which path of anarchy is taken...
There are different types.
It is up to you to look into them and see the logic behind how each of them would work rather than come on a web forum crying about how nobody can tell you how it works therefore dismissing the ideas. - which seems the case.
There are countless texts on this matter; how many have you read?

Self responsibility includes the need for you to learn for yourself..
See!!

No answer.
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Old 01-04-2011, 12:35 PM   #808
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He can't even put a potatoe in the ground according to Thunda, how do you expect him to read a book?

Amaralswrong learning about Anarchism from the state:

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Old 01-04-2011, 12:36 PM   #809
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Originally Posted by Mo0n5tar View Post
Oh I get it now.

Perhaps one day when the last hypothetical argument against autonomy, self ownership, independence has been worn out you might begin to realise how self defeating your attitude is..
I think you are missing the point. It is perfectly possible to have a "Stateless" society that is small and made of generalists engaged in subsistence horticulture (Thunda's estimates on the time taken up by such are not correct - it is work intensive to set up, but to look after a small homestead/small-holding is not quite the 16 hour drive he describes).

What is not possible is the continuence of a large, division of labour, society (such as all that have produced an industrial revolution) without a similar specialist coordinating body; a "State". Without it, work would either grind to a halt as everyone downtools and discussed each issue that arose, or it would descend into chaos.

The only Stateless society that would work, is a small, static one of generalist subsistence horticulturalists. Which would be fine by me but if you want a society that is engaged in change/progress/advancement or indeed using advanced technology (and by advanced I here mean anything from the industrial revolution onwards) you'll need division of labour and a coordinating body. A "State".

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Old 01-04-2011, 12:37 PM   #810
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Originally Posted by Mo0n5tar View Post
Oh I get it now.

Perhaps one day when the last hypothetical argument against autonomy, self ownership, independence has been worn out you might begin to realise how self defeating your attitude is..
A note on Somalia first .. What you have a country with no state. No government. Just what the anarchist proposes, will create a situation where "spontaneous order" will occur according to some. A very idealised way of saying that that order will come through various factions fighting for control and dominance over other factions ultimately resulting in Dictatorship and Oppression.

Its very naive to think that in any society created by Anarchism will result in people skipping merrily through the forest holding hands and having picnics with their neighbour.

Somalia is a land with no state or government control and has been that way for 20 years now. Not exactly a place to take the kids on holiday, is it?

As for your post on feeding yourself and your family ..

You still haven't addressed the point raised and instead tried deflection techniques.

Answer the genune and sincere question or its Game Over.
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Old 01-04-2011, 12:40 PM   #811
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Originally Posted by amaralsright View Post
See!!

No answer.
This is the answer you donkey;

Quote:
Self responsibility includes the need for you to learn for yourself..
Why should people spoon feed you tit bits?

How could a concept such as anarchy work without people fully understanding it for themselves?
and just by telling people on a website who also have a pre-determinist attitude that it won't work, because you can't think how things like hospitals get built.... another fail.

The logic is no different to me telling people I cannot build a house, without me first learning how to make cement.

So, how many books have you read on the subject before you came to your conclusion?

Want me to make a guess?
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Old 01-04-2011, 12:47 PM   #812
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Originally Posted by thunda View Post
A note on Somalia first .. What you have a country with no state. No government. Just what the anarchist proposes, will create a situation where "spontaneous order" will occur according to some. A very idealised way of saying that that order will come through various factions fighting for control and dominance over other factions ultimately resulting in Dictatorship and Oppression.

Its very naive to think that in any society created by Anarchism will result in people skipping merrily through the forest holding hands and having picnics with their neighbour.

Somalia is a land with no state or government control and has been that way for 20 years now. Not exactly a place to take the kids on holiday, is it?

As for your post on feeding yourself and your family ..

You still haven't addressed the point raised and instead tried deflection techniques.

Answer the genune and sincere question or its Game Over.
Don't you realise I don't need to waste my time on your moronic hypothetical arguments and misguided ignorant assumptions regarding permaculture or horticulture, the game was over when you opened you mouth in favour of statism

bahaha you are incredible

Quote:
Somali Prime Minister Mohamed Abdullahi Mohamed said his government extended its mandate by a year to finish the war with Islamic insurgents and set up a stable system of governance, Agence France-Presse reported.

The Somali transitional government’s term is scheduled to end in August, the Paris-based news agency said today. The administration now plans to leave office in August 2012, it said. Somali authorities plan to enact a proposed new constitution and organize credible elections, AFP said.
Somalia is in a CIvil war, it is not a fledgling Anarchist state
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...-afp-says.html

You are on ignore for stupidity..

Game Over
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Old 01-04-2011, 12:51 PM   #813
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Originally Posted by knightofthegrail View Post
I think you are missing the point. It is perfectly possible to have a "Stateless" society that is small and made of generalists engaged in subsistence horticulture (Thunda's estimates on the time taken up by such are not correct - it is work intensive to set up, but to look after a small homestead/small-holding is not quite the 16 hour drive he describes).

What is not possible is the continuence of a large, division of labour, society (such as all that have produced an industrial revolution) without a similar specialist coordinating body; a "State". Without it, work would either grind to a halt as everyone downtools and discussed each issue that arose, or it would descend into chaos.

The only Stateless society that would work, is a small, static one of generalist subsistence horticulturalists. Which would be fine by me but if you want a society that is engaged in change/progress/advancement or indeed using advanced technology (and by advanced I here mean anything from the industrial revolution onwards) you'll need division of labour and a coordinating body. A "State".
Hopefully, chaos is a dirty word, chaos needn't be thought of as destructive and scary, after all it was chaos which gave rise to this natural Earth and it's natural abundance and natural lifeforms which live naturally on it no.

And yes you are right Permaculture and Horticulture would be predominant pastimes, also hunting would surely be popular, art, prayer, dancing loving, learning, meditating etc Love would truly prosper in an Anarchist world

By the way technology as we consider it is neurotic in the utmost, the Industrial revolution and my thoughts on it have been frequently posted on this board, that is the subjugation of man to enable the Elite to exhaust the resources of this planet and secure the means to leave it at the worker's expense, fuck space travel in rockets, learn transcendentalist techniques, lucid dreaming, AP etc...

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Old 01-04-2011, 12:53 PM   #814
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Originally Posted by knightofthegrail View Post
I think you are missing the point. It is perfectly possible to have a "Stateless" society that is small and made of generalists engaged in subsistence horticulture (Thunda's estimates on the time taken up by such are not correct - it is work intensive to set up, but to look after a small homestead/small-holding is not quite the 16 hour drive he describes).
Not correct?

The average meal consumed by someone weighs 3lb in weight on average (unless you propose we all live on celery and lentils??).

3 meals a day = 9lb

365 meals a year = 3285lb

To feed a family of four for one year = 13140lb

Or, in English - just over 7.5 ton of food. For one family. Which you need to produce. Yourself. Without modern technology to aid you (unless everyone is presented with a tractor and a combined harvester???).

Not correct?

You serious?
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Old 01-04-2011, 12:57 PM   #815
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This is the answer you donkey;
That did not answer the question.

The question was:

Q) In an anarchist community, does the community have a body of representatives to make hundreds perhaps thousands of daily decisions for the community or does the whole community vote on everything every time?

Your "answer" was an attempt at bullshit.

So how about it?
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Old 01-04-2011, 12:59 PM   #816
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The logic is no different to me telling people I cannot build a house, without me first learning how to make cement.
OK another big chance for you.

Walk us through the process for building a hospital in an anarchist community.

Thanks.
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:01 PM   #817
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Originally Posted by amaralsright View Post
That did not answer the question.

The question was:

Q) In an anarchist community, does the community have a body of representatives to make hundreds perhaps thousands of daily decisions for the community or does the whole community vote on everything every time?

Your "answer" was an attempt at bullshit.

So how about it?
Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it wasn't an answer
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:01 PM   #818
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Don't you realise I don't need to waste my time on your moronic hypothetical arguments and misguided ignorant assumptions regarding permaculture or horticulture, the game was over when you opened you mouth in favour of statism

bahaha you are incredible

STILL not answered the very practical question.

So that IS game over - good luck in setting up home in fucking La-La Land.


Quote:
Somalia is in a CIvil war, it is not a fledgling Anarchist state
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...-afp-says.html

You are on ignore for stupidity..

Game Over
Somalia is a failed state. No government control. People aren't exactly setting up "co-operatives" and coming up with "spontaneous order" and loving thy neighbour are they? Oh, and many of them need a hospital which you believe won't be needed in La-La Land. Don't you think they'll be opposing factions in La-La Land? Don't you think those factions will fight for control and dominance over each other? Do we suddenly re-write millions of years of human evolution - tribalism, territorial, competitiveness, combativeness - and all suddenly agree to say "aawwwwww hello lovey" to each other?

Somalia is perfect example of why non-government control won't work.

Game Over.
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:02 PM   #819
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Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it wasn't an answer
It was an answer to a different question.

Oh.. I thought you didn't like politicians.
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:02 PM   #820
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I would expect that natural "Leader" and "Follower" thing would come out fairly soon in people, would it not?

Some people will need others to lead them, maybe because they don't have the "natural" skills needed for a task, others will simply and naturally "Lead"...is this not the way of the human race AT BASE LEVEL ?
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