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Old 09-03-2016, 01:07 AM   #1
jesus_lizard
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Cool Toxic Femininity?

This might end up in the controversial subjects forum, but here goes.
We hear a lot about toxic masculinity promoting violence, lack of responsibility and sexual impropriety, but can we talk about the other side?
What women are doing to perpetuate the use and abuse of themselves by not being responsible and conducting themselves as mature adults? Why do the likes of Kerry Katona, Katie Price and the Kardashians become role models when they have nothing positive to offer?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrit...ughter-6322759
Feminism and MRA are both opposames which seek to demonise half of the human race. David talks about 'divide and conquer' a lot in his books and seminars, it is a tool of the elite to drive a wedge in between people and destroy society. All the left wing, right wing, Jew/Muslim, black/white stuff we talk about, but the engineered 'Battle of the Sexes' is tough talk even on here.
It is understandable why so many men feel they are being used and are disposable, traditionally hazardous jobs and military action have been foisted onto men without question. But what about the roles forced onto women which are hazardous, such as child bearing and living with an abusive or self entitled partner who sees them as inhuman?
How does this play out when it it programmed into them to be weak, dainty and play the victim role?
How do breast and butt implants serve as 'collateral' to acquire wealth and favour above skills, intelligence and talent?
Do Disney have a master plan to Pink Princess program women so they cannot function as human beings? How does little toy soldier program work out for little boys, especially the ones in the USA with real guns? Do the toy manufactures do this on purpose to create victims/sacrifices? Or does religeon have a part to play? Is daddy's little girl just a pre pubescent prostitute, playing her role for favours from sugar daddy and competing sexually with her mother?
Can we put all this down to mind control and free ourselves from the roles and stereotypes we are bombarded with from birth? Is switching off the TV and radio and binning the newspapers and magazines enough to be able to bring up a generation of children who are true to themselves without becoming predator and prey, sex object, sugar daddy and baby, ATM machine, goods and chattels?
Can consumerism be blamed for the narcissistic attitude which locks people into the 3d world, or are some people born without conscience?
The most successful (spiritually, I mean, not financially, that's a trap) are those who are true to themselves and see no need to conform to social roles and expectations. They do not need to look upon themselves as typical men or women because they are themselves. No role playing, no games. The soul is neither male nor female, so it is happy to emminate qualities associated with either. Strength, bravery, compassion, creativity, empathy, resourcefulness are not gender specific. Why should we teach our kids that they are?

Was this girl a victim of toxic masculinity, toxic femininity or both?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...top-ex-7119157





Toxic Femiminity article from Honey Badger brigade

http://honeybadgerbrigade.com/2014/1...ic-femininity/

Another forum discussion at sufficient velocity
https://forums.sufficientvelocity.co...culinty.20207/

Please be respectful, I don't want this to descend into a rant or more ad hominem attacks and Cultural Marxist bogeymen, a nice discussion would be nice.


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Old 09-03-2016, 11:57 AM   #2
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Please be respectful, I don't want this to descend into a rant or more ad hominem attacks and Cultural Marxist bogeymen, a nice discussion would be nice.
i don't know how you can ask if society is being engineered down damaging paths through cultural subversion deliberately by powerful corporate forces without speaking about 'cultural marxism'

The engineering of society down damaging paths through cultural subversion IS cultural marxism! That's what it is!

Are men and women being deliberately destabilised to destroy the family so that parents can be replaced by an all powerful state enforced by a police surveillance state?

YES!
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Old 09-03-2016, 12:43 PM   #3
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i don't know how you can ask if society is being engineered down damaging paths through cultural subversion deliberately by powerful corporate forces without speaking about 'cultural marxism'

The engineering of society down damaging paths through cultural subversion IS cultural marxism! That's what it is!

Are men and women being deliberately destabilised to destroy the family so that parents can be replaced by an all powerful state enforced by a police surveillance state?

YES!
The reason is that it is NOT Cultural Marxism, because that in the form used by tin hatters does not even exist.

There are other reasons for this form of social engineering, and top of the list are religion and corporations. The artificial gender roles created by fundamentalist religions coupled with the need to profit and panda to the 'lowest common denominator' is a much more likely cause and effect that boring ad hominem old chestnut constantly churned out by the neo nazis.
If you truly believe this, and obviously you have had a few sips of the koolaid, you have fallen for the oldest trick in the book, that it is Right Wing vs Left Wing, and all the worlds ills can be put to right by embracing new misogyny and fascism. The Right are no more 'the good guys' than the left are.
In truth, there is no Right and Left, they are OPPOSAMES.

When you are all excercising you freedom by fucking lifelike robots, who is looking after your children?
Will all the mums have turned into fat lesbians sitting on the couch in front of TOWIE eating Pringles and drinking wine straight out the bottle? Won't this lead to them all becoming wards of the state?
Who is to blame for that?
Capitalism maybe?

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Old 09-03-2016, 12:48 PM   #4
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The term 'toxic masculinity' is completely new to me. I guess I swim in different internet waters.

I am aware of the extreme sides of Feminism and the extreme sides of the Men's Right Movement. What do I see? I see what I've been going on about since I joined this forum, and have been trying to wake people up to: Narcissism.

The everyday understanding of Narcissism is of a projected or created secondary self, in order to hide, subconsciously the vulnerable real self. What are these projected selves? They are archetypes of the strong/weak man and the archetypes of the strong/weak woman. They are masks to hide the real self, that actually feels in a dangerous insane world.

For men, there is the strong alpha male bodybuilder or patriarch, or the weak submissive provider. For women, there is the perfect mother madonna figure or matriarch, or the weak submissive succubus. If you fall outside these perspectives or archetypes, you fall outside the drama of life and are invisible.

You see, at the very core of human conflict and 'sides' is fear. Fear is what drives anger and rage, and it's that, that drives conflict. It is suppressed rage, due to a broken personality, a vulnerable emotional self that has been denied the love and security that life ought to have provided.

As I've said many times, love is the answer. But most importantly, love is only the beginning of a harsh journey of self-discovery, self-awakening.

Narcissists have bound up and closed off their heart, and look to others for the source of energy. So all that created drama and conflict, it only a way for people to feed off each other, because they have not learned to love, and have not been loved.

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Old 09-03-2016, 12:52 PM   #5
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The term 'toxic masculinity' is completely new to me. I guess I swim in different internet waters.

I am aware of the extreme sides of Feminism and the extreme sides of the Men's Right Movement. What do I see? I see what I've been going on about since I joined this forum, and have been trying to wake people up to: Narcissism.

The everyday understanding of Narcissism is of a projected or created secondary self, in order to hide, subconsciously the vulnerable real self. What are these projected selves? They are archetypes of the strong/weak man and the archetypes of the strong/weak woman. They are masks to hide the real self, that actually feels in a dangerous insane world.

For men, there is the strong alpha male bodybuilder or patriarch, or the weak submissive provider. For women, there is the perfect mother madonna figure or matriarch, or the weak submissive succubus. If you fall outside these perspectives or archetypes, you fall outside the drama of life and are invisible.

You see, at the very core of human conflict and 'sides' is fear. Fear is what drives anger and rage, and it's that, that drives conflict. It is suppressed rage, due to a broken personality, a vulnerable emotional self that has been denied the love and security that life ought to have provided.

As I've said many times, love is the answer. But most importantly, love is only the beginning of a harsh journey of self-discovery, self-awakening.

Narcissists have bound up and closed off their heart, and look to others for the source of energy. So all that created drama and conflict, it only a way for people to feed off each other, because they have not learned to love, and have not been loved.
Great answer, Paddy. The subject of narcissism needs a thread all of its own.
Social media has a lot to answer for, in bringing out the narcissist in people.
Facebook is narcissist central, so is Instagram - it's incredible that the term 'selfie' has entered modern English, and is even included in the Oxford Dictionary. Selfie = selfish.
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Old 09-03-2016, 12:59 PM   #6
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The reason is that it is NOT Cultural Marxism, because that in the form used by tin hatters does not even exist.

There are other reasons for this form of social engineering, and top of the list are religion and corporations. The artificial gender roles created by fundamentalist religions coupled with the need to profit and panda to the 'lowest common denominator' is a much more likely cause and effect that boring ad hominem old chestnut constantly churned out by the neo nazis.
If you truly believe this, and obviously you have had a few sips of the koolaid, you have fallen for the oldest trick in the book, that it is Right Wing vs Left Wing, and all the worlds ills can be put to right by embracing new misogyny and fascism. The Right are no more 'the good guys' than the left are.
In truth, there is no Right and Left, they are OPPOSAMES.

When you are all excercising you freedom by fucking lifelike robots, who is looking after your children?
Will all the mums have turned into fat lesbians sitting on the couch in front of TOWIE eating Pringles and drinking wine straight out the bottle? Won't this lead to them all becoming wards of the state?
Who is to blame for that?
Capitalism maybe?
once again you are only partly right

the left and the right of mainstream politics ARE both controlled by the corporate network. This is because the parties they fund and support into existence all support a powerful STATE whether they are 'right wing' or 'left wing' but that's because they are 'authoritarian' which is to mean they believe that people should be controlled by a powerful state

But there is also a libertarian left and libertarian right who believe that government should be reduced and power decentralised down to the people but the authoritarians most definately are using cultural subversion. First of all Marx was a close relative of the rothschild banking family who FUNDED marx

Secondly the banking network gave jobs to the marxist frankfurt school in the US. The banking fraternity who are behind the corporate network and the federal reserve have put vast amounts of money into controlling education in the US through tax exempt foundations. They gave jobs to the frankfurt school who had decided that the economic subversion of capitalist society was impossible and that it required cultural subversion instead

This agenda perfectly suited the bankers who have a vision to create a one world government which would be a state-socialist police state. They ARE subverting society and they are using marxist thought to achieve it. They are not true leftwingers because they do not seek to empower workers they seek to empower the state in order to enslave the workers under the state
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Old 09-03-2016, 01:00 PM   #7
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It's both male and female, not just females. For one thing, the popularity of the internet in the early 00s came about just after the rise of reality television, where people could be famous simply for having been famous. That became the norm, leading to what we have now.

In contrast with previous eras, the mainstream media of late has rarely let anyone of real substance rise to that kind of stardom. At the same time, there are loads of talented and intelligent people of note around, who are nothing like the vacuous figures paraded across social media, if you know where to find them. And it's good to bear in mind not every young person buys into the shallowness of what's on offer from celebrity world.

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Old 09-03-2016, 04:55 PM   #8
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We don't really help ourselves when it comes to this issue. I know many girls/women who purchase the same brand of make-up, shop in the same stores for clothes and attend the same nightclubs whilst drinking the same cocktail. I know there are ladies out there who 'aspire' to be like the women you have mentioned above. Your Kim Kardashian's are the perfect example of who they want women to be like; brainless and used as a sex object. Instead people like Kim fluff it with 'being creative' or 'being a businesswomen' when she is nothing of the sort, or at least her roots didn't begin purely.

As a woman who speaks to quite a few open-minded/aware men in the truth circle, I find myself having to stick up for females (it's hard, considering most of the stereotypes are true) but most of these men tar all women with the same brush - very frustrating. These men think that women only want them for their money, why's that? Because the music industry and the like are portraying women as nothing more than the physical body with absolutely nothing to offer bar nice red lips and wide hips.

Hopefully the above makes sense, I do not think it's a gender thing - both push blame on the other and it become a never-ending cycle of blame-game. I wish women (or the women around me) had more to them than make-up, a new 16 plate car and a holiday in Magaluf but it's becoming more scarce by the day..
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Old 09-03-2016, 05:52 PM   #9
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We don't really help ourselves when it comes to this issue. I know many girls/women who purchase the same brand of make-up, shop in the same stores for clothes and attend the same nightclubs whilst drinking the same cocktail. I know there are ladies out there who 'aspire' to be like the women you have mentioned above. Your Kim Kardashian's are the perfect example of who they want women to be like; brainless and used as a sex object. Instead people like Kim fluff it with 'being creative' or 'being a businesswomen' when she is nothing of the sort, or at least her roots didn't begin purely.

As a woman who speaks to quite a few open-minded/aware men in the truth circle, I find myself having to stick up for females (it's hard, considering most of the stereotypes are true) but most of these men tar all women with the same brush - very frustrating. These men think that women only want them for their money, why's that? Because the music industry and the like are portraying women as nothing more than the physical body with absolutely nothing to offer bar nice red lips and wide hips.

Hopefully the above makes sense, I do not think it's a gender thing - both push blame on the other and it become a never-ending cycle of blame-game. I wish women (or the women around me) had more to them than make-up, a new 16 plate car and a holiday in Magaluf but it's becoming more scarce by the day..
We're conditioned to see famous people as 'special', almost like royalty, and many people act accordingly because they don't have to then look at their own 'stuff'. Tied in with this, those in power know that one of the most natural instincts within people is to follow, and imitate, to be part of a crowd; whilst there's nothing wrong with doing that per se, the elite make sure we're given dodgy models to emulate.

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Old 09-03-2016, 07:12 PM   #10
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What are your thoughts on this article (by Matt Forney)

http://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/20...r-than-chimps/

Quote:
I have absolutely zero sympathy for women who are the victims of domestic violence, for a multitude of reasons. … If women have all the same rights and responsibilities as men, if denying privileges to someone because of the shape of their genitals is morally wrong, then that means there’s nothing wrong with bashing a woman’s face in — or, more accurately, it’s no more wrong than bashing a man’s face in.

Uh, there’s a lot wrong with bashing anyone’s face in, except in self-defense.

Then he argues – well, asserts – that women who are abused bring this abuse upon themselves. First, by deliberately choosing to be with abusers:

Women are masters of refusing to accept the consequences of their own behavior. Girls who habitually end up in relationships with abusive men do so because they are attracted to men who abuse them. … If you paid attention, you could have seen signs that your man was an abuser, but you ignored them because unconsciously, that’s what turns you on, what gets you wet.

And second, by egging them on:

I have no sympathy for most abused women because a great many of them deliberately incite their men into attacking them, if not by being physically abusive themselves, then by creating drama. Extreme cases of this are diagnosed as borderline personality disorder, but a great percentage of the normal female population engages in this behavior as a matter of course.

Still, despite this, and despite his own proud confession of abuse, Bardamu doesn’t advocate domestic violence explicitly – if only because it might get his readers arrested.

Despite all this, I do NOT recommend you start hitting the girls in your rotation, mainly because the risks are too great. For every one girl who’ll pounce on your dick after a good backhand, there are three more who’ll dial 911 without a second thought. I got lucky. But unless you exclusively fuck single moms, cougars and spinsters, you’ve likely had girls either try to physically hurt you or bait you into hitting them.

After a brief defense of corporal punishment for children, Bardamu suggests that similar “discipline” can help to keep girlfriends in line:

Slapping a girl across the face isn’t just about hurting her, it’s a kind of neg. It says, “I can crush you like an insect, but you aren’t worth the effort.” It’s a tacit acknowledgment that she’s weaker than you, beneath you, and if she crosses you again, you’ll put her in the hospital. You treat her like she’s a child throwing a temper tantrum, not an equal.

And then we come to the money quote:

Like I said already, you should NOT hit women, not unless you want to end up in jail. But the principle still stands. Women should be terrorized by their men; it’s the only thing that makes them behave better than chimps.

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Old 10-03-2016, 01:08 AM   #11
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I think this meme says it all.
Why the obsession with 'Bad Boys'?
This is social engineering at work, but it does not serve the 'Marxist' it serves the traditionalist viewpoint favoured by the religious right and the patriarchalist system.
The girl who seeks a 'Bad Boy' in tne mistaken beliief that he will be a fighter and protector, that she is taming 'the wild beast' (Disney, Beauty and the Beast programming) only makes her into the weak 'Damsel in distress' at the hands of an emotionally crippled animal who will 'be bad'. Toxic Masculinity is attracted to Toxic Femininity, like shit attracts flies. The helpless, weak minded, often drunk and irresponsible child woman is like putty in his hands.



Is prostitution the perfect solution?
Then everyone is happy!!

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Old 10-03-2016, 01:19 AM   #12
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There is a scary amount of truth in your post there!
I have known as friends several wimmin who match the tyep you mention, and the "shaven headed hard man" invariably turns out to be a woman beating type....ERM! That is precisely why these men are like the image they wish to project....

Some gal once asked me why " I dont look hard" - I was like do I need to look to fill your stereotype or what
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Old 10-03-2016, 01:27 AM   #13
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There is a scary amount of truth in your post there!
I have known as friends several wimmin who match the tyep you mention, and the "shaven headed hard man" invariably turns out to be a woman beating type....ERM! That is precisely why these men are like the image they wish to project....

Some gal once asked me why " I dont look hard" - I was like do I need to look to fill your stereotype or what
Stereotypes are an illness. If you feel the need to comply to what your culture, social class, family, political party, peer group, religion or the media has beaten and brainwashed into you, you are not fit to be a person.
Narcissism is a false self. It's hard to uphold the pretence of being something or someone you are not in order to fill what you consider to be your social role, you are afraid all the time that someone will break through the veneer and see the insanity underneath. That's the structure of a toxic relationship, constantly being on the defensive, aggressive and delusional. Narcissists love to attach themselves to weaker, more sensitive individuals who they can dominate and take their anger out on. They like their meat pre packaged thank you. Like this sorry excuse for a role model. Shame on her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsKdBeb5-GI

Getting beaten up by your 'Bad Boy' is some badge of honour, right?


EDIT: as a side note, I didn't know this, Romina Garcia is dead!! Over dose apparently, I wonder if her bad boys had anything to do with it?!!
http://thereporterz.com/romina-garci...roin-overdose/

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Old 10-03-2016, 07:44 AM   #14
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What are your thoughts on this article (by Matt Forney)

http://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/20...r-than-chimps/
Whoever wrote that piece comes over as an apologist for beating up women, gotta say; however much he dresses up his words.
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Old 10-03-2016, 11:04 AM   #15
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Whoever wrote that piece comes over as an apologist for beating up women, gotta say; however much he dresses up his words.
It's intereting tho that Karen Stranghan of Honey Badger radio agrees with him, and she as a woman is a fan favourite in the Men's Rights Movement.

http://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/20...ents-for-them/

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Old 10-03-2016, 11:16 AM   #16
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It's intereting tho that Karen Stranghan of Honey Badger radio agrees with him, and she as a woman is a fan favourite in the Men's Rights Movement.

http://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/20...ents-for-them/
She could have worded it with more tact, and a bit more thought. When people end up in toxic relationships, especially a cycle of them, they often are playing out a lot of negative subconscious baggage.

When I see these separate 'rights' groups for men and women, I think this plays into the separation. From what I seen from some of the MGTOW advocates who used to post on this forum, people who join those groups end up being even more alienated.
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Old 10-03-2016, 12:06 PM   #17
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All women seem to care about is their blooming hair and make up. Well, that's what the adverts would have us believe. I'm sure it's not true...right?
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Old 10-03-2016, 05:43 PM   #18
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All women seem to care about is their blooming hair and make up. Well, that's what the adverts would have us believe. I'm sure it's not true...right?
Of course it isn't true, but social conditioning has made it this way. Of course it serves the corporations, they look for niche markets then cater to it. There is a lot of shame based marketing, telling women they smell or have greasy hair or are ugly and men won't like them only serves to shift more products. We have got a dangerous blend now with the video bloggers like Zoella who pretend to be just teens making home videos, but really they are being paid millions by make up and cosmetic companies to plug their products.
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Old 11-03-2016, 01:43 AM   #19
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Jesus Lizard - "The artificial gender roles created by fundamentalist religions"


sorry but that's wrong. Don't derail this thread by making it a debate about the notion of gender being completely up for grabs.


In a family unit there is a strong reason for gender roles. Even if in a large tribal family there is as well. Sure there is some give n take but strong male & female identities/archetypes have existed in almost all societies. not just fundamentalist religon.
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Old 11-03-2016, 02:15 AM   #20
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Jesus Lizard - "The artificial gender roles created by fundamentalist religions"


sorry but that's wrong. Don't derail this thread by making it a debate about the notion of gender being completely up for grabs.


In a family unit there is a strong reason for gender roles. Even if in a large tribal family there is as well. Sure there is some give n take but strong male & female identities/archetypes have existed in almost all societies. not just fundamentalist religon.
Yes I understand what you're saying, but the idea of toxic stereotypes apply to both male stereotypes and female. Being a carer for children and cook and domesticated is not exclusively the role of females. You do not have to be a transgender man to be good at Mom stuff. Men should not have to berate themselves for taking responsibility, it isn't going to mean they wear a dress and call themselves Cilla. Are you looking for a Gay Agenda bogeyman where there isn't one? If you look to the Fundamentalists in both Islam and Christianity (and Judism) they have very strict and unbending expectations for male and female behaviour. Culture is built on rules and regulations, even those which oppress and damage, rather than benefiting society. Having harems etc, might be fun, but does it benefit the wimen you hoard for yourselves? Does it benefit males to be indoctrinated that it is their birthright under God to claim superiority? The men's rights movement appeals to a similar mindset, give or take belief in a higher being. A man who does not achieve 'alpha' status is condemned by his brethren as beta, or even worse a white knight or mangina. If you reduce people to stereotypes you are doing everyone a disservice, because sometimes the right man for the job is a woman, and the right woman for the job is a man.

Last edited by jesus_lizard; 11-03-2016 at 02:19 AM.
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