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Old 17-12-2015, 06:48 PM   #21
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This is a man who 'publically' stated (because he didn't realise he was being filmed) that he would NEVER harm the bankers or banking system if he came to power. He has sold his soul to the dark side and (some could say handily) his first born died - a requisite of gaining power with these creatures. Look at who in politics or power have agreed to sacrifice to the evil... it starts to be a long list. The recent revelations of his activites with a pig's head are not surprising; these people are tested for manipulability from an early age; what will they do to gain power? Anything? Yes? You're in mate.... but not in the Club. He has had to be coerced a couple of times to do 'what is right' for the dark side, so maybe deeply buried within is a human soul that is in conflict (unlike Bliar who is just a corrupt, evil shell of a human being). Is it reachable? Probably only on his deathbed when he realises how much he's fucked the world up.
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Old 17-12-2015, 06:52 PM   #22
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What is so good about loving those who you like? That's easy. Even David Cameron can do that... damn, even Hitler could do that. That's no big deal. But loving your enemies... that is an awakened mind.
Where did I say "those I like?" Wrong I said those hurting.
Ahh so now your more awakened than us. OK.
I have forgiven all my enemies a long time ago stop preaching..
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Old 17-12-2015, 06:56 PM   #23
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We turn the public against him - or, better yet, we turn the public for us. We don't need to convert him. That would be the highest ideal, but it's not necessary, or even possible. But it's possible to remove him from power and to make sure his ilk do not regain power, and the only way we do that is to expose him to the wider public such that they no longer support his kind. Fact of the matter is that, right now, a lot of people like him and support him! Imagine that! It's not like he is a dictator ruling over us with an iron fist. He's there because he has (enough) public support. The question then becomes how do we remove that support and gain support for ourselves? And the answer is to become saints. The public recognise good human beings, and they'll support them, but they won't support someone who says one thing and does the other... they won't support people who say 'Cameron is bad' and then use violent means to get their own way. That's hypocritical. If we want to show that we are better then we need to be better. And the ultimate in better is to have the humility and the understanding to love our enemies. If you can pull that off then you can gain a lot of support and sympathy.
All these globalist types have something in common, they try to trick the general public into believing that they hold the moral authority. They don't! In fact I don't believe that they have a single moral fibre between them.

So, this is their weak spot, this is where we attack them. This is where humanity will join together. But as you say, we must be moral and ethical ourselves, otherwise we are just another bunch of hypocrites talking shite.

Now, does this mean to say that we turn a blind eye to all the pain and suffering these people have caused? Can we hold the moral high ground whilst we attack them? Can we fight the good fight without sinking down towards the sewer?
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Old 17-12-2015, 07:02 PM   #24
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All these globalist types have something in common, they try to trick the general public into believing that they hold the moral authority. They don't! In fact I don't believe that they have a single moral fibre between them.

So, this is their weak spot, this is where we attack them. This is where humanity will join together. But as you say, we must be moral and ethical ourselves, otherwise we are just another bunch of hypocrites talking shite.

Now, does this mean to say that we turn a blind eye to all the pain and suffering these people have caused? Can we hold the moral high ground whilst we attack them? Can we fight the good fight without sinking down towards the sewer?
Of course we can, but whether we will or not, and whether we can learn over time to do so, i'm not sure. If you look back at Gandhi, he managed to convince Indians to be beaten brutally without fighting back. That was impressive. Same with MLK. So the potential is there, but right now some people don't even agree with being non-violent, let alone willing to put it into practice.

Turning a blind eye? No. Justice should be served.

Technically, we don't need to attack them. Yes we highlight their wrong-doings, but we don't judge or condemn them, just their actions. This will help the wider public to see that not only do we talk of a better, peaceful world, but even when confronted with people who have done us immense harm, we are willing to walk our talk. What greater message could we send that we are for real?

I don't personally think i'd sink towards the sewer - certainly i'd make mistakes, but I am infected by these ideas. I love them, I am passionate about them, I believe in them, because i've experienced and witnessed the power of them. And I think when others experience that potency then they too will be just as infected.
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Old 17-12-2015, 07:11 PM   #25
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Loving someone like that doesn't mean they're above being punished for what they do, no different from any criminal.

Metaphor: You can love the divine spark in a lion, but go among a pride of lions and see if they don't tear you to pieces.
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Old 17-12-2015, 07:13 PM   #26
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Of course we can, but whether we will or not, and whether we can learn over time to do so, i'm not sure. If you look back at Gandhi, he managed to convince Indians to be beaten brutally without fighting back. That was impressive. Same with MLK. So the potential is there, but right now some people don't even agree with being non-violent, let alone willing to put it into practice.

Turning a blind eye? No. Justice should be served.

Technically, we don't need to attack them. Yes we highlight their wrong-doings, but we don't judge or condemn them, just their actions. This will help the wider public to see that not only do we talk of a better, peaceful world, but even when confronted with people who have done us immense harm, we are willing to walk our talk. What greater message could we send that we are for real?

I don't personally think i'd sink towards the sewer - certainly i'd make mistakes, but I am infected by these ideas. I love them, I am passionate about them, I believe in them, because i've experienced and witnessed the power of them. And I think when others experience that potency then they too will be just as infected.
I don't disagree with you.

And using the word 'attack' wasn't my greatest moment on the DIF either..

But I still have an issue with you claiming that Cameron has the best interests of humanity at heart, he doesn't. In fact he would like to see us all as wage, debt slaves in a cashless society, coerced and shackled to the banking criminal elite, forced to eat shit, vaccinated to death etc, etc, etc...

Can you at least admit that you got that part wrong?
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Old 17-12-2015, 07:17 PM   #27
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I don't disagree with you.

And using the word 'attack' wasn't my greatest moment on the DIF either..

But I still have an issue with you claiming that Cameron has the best interests of humanity at heart, he doesn't. In fact he would like to see us all as wage, debt slaves in a cashless society, coerced and shackled to the banking criminal elite, forced to eat shit, vaccinated to death etc, etc, etc...

Can you at least admit that you got that part wrong?
I've just being addressing that point elsewhere, so excuse my copying and pasting a response...

The point of seeing him as beautiful is that it makes it infinitely easier to maintain a peaceful, respectful position if we regard him in a positive light. Btw, this is my position for all human beings. It would be very, very hard for me to maintain a peaceful, respectful attitude towards him (and thus stand a better chance of being heard and considered) if I regard him as a lying, murdering scumbag.

Basically, my position is that, if we wish to influence people, then we must have their respect and, if possible, friendship. That requires that we see the very best in people, focusing on the good that they do, and over-looking (where reasonable) their wrong-doings. This is wise for all human relationships.
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Old 17-12-2015, 07:26 PM   #28
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I doubt even Samantha Cameron loves him anymore, for all the threads on DI, this is the most insane.
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Old 17-12-2015, 07:28 PM   #29
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I've just being addressing that point elsewhere, so excuse my copying and pasting a response...

The point of seeing him as beautiful is that it makes it infinitely easier to maintain a peaceful, respectful position if we regard him in a positive light. Btw, this is my position for all human beings. It would be very, very hard for me to maintain a peaceful, respectful attitude towards him (and thus stand a better chance of being heard and considered) if I regard him as a lying, murdering scumbag.

Basically, my position is that, if we wish to influence people, then we must have their respect and, if possible, friendship. That requires that we see the very best in people, focusing on the good that they do, and over-looking (where reasonable) their wrong-doings. This is wise for all human relationships.
So that's a no then? You can't admit that you were wrong on this point.

Yes you can see him as beautiful if you like, and it's not without merit IMO..

But that's not what I was asking.

Has he really got the best interests of humanity at heart?

Btw, to overcome a problem, we have to understand it perfectly.. Right?

So if someone is a murderous, lying scumbag, then we need to see and tell it as it is.. Right?

But we can do all this without hate in our hearts, right?
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Old 17-12-2015, 07:39 PM   #30
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So that's a no then? You can't admit that you were wrong on this point.

Yes you can see him as beautiful if you like, and it's not without merit IMO..

But that's not what I was asking.

Has he really got the best interests of humanity at heart?

Btw, to overcome a problem, we have to understand it perfectly.. Right?

So if someone is a murderous, lying scumbag, then we need to see and tell it as it is.. Right?

But we can do all this without hate in our hearts, right?
I spent many hours crafting that article (as I do all my writing), so no, i'm not going to admit to being wrong on something that i've given a lot of thought to. Now, if you present an argument that changes my mind, then so be it. But as of yet you haven't, and I can't fake what I think. I've qualified my view, so if you disagree that is fine, but I believe what I believe. However, it should be understood that I don't actually believe that David Cameron has the best interests of humanity at heart, but then that passage is there to reflect the attitude that I am endorsing, in the same way that i'd say to a thieving, violent, raping drug addict 'you're a good guy, bud'. Why? Because my concern is in being effective, and telling a thieving, violent, raping drug addict (of which i've met a few) that they are scum simply is not helpful at all.
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Old 17-12-2015, 07:59 PM   #31
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I've just being addressing that point

Basically, my position is that, if we wish to influence people, then we must have their respect and, if possible, friendship. That requires that we see the very best in people, focusing on the good that they do, and over-looking (where reasonable) their wrong-doings. This is wise for all human relationships.

Good luck with your position when dealing with psychopaths

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Old 17-12-2015, 08:14 PM   #32
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I spent many hours crafting that article (as I do all my writing), so no, i'm not going to admit to being wrong on something that i've given a lot of thought to. Now, if you present an argument that changes my mind, then so be it. But as of yet you haven't, and I can't fake what I think. I've qualified my view, so if you disagree that is fine, but I believe what I believe. However, it should be understood that I don't actually believe that David Cameron has the best interests of humanity at heart, but then that passage is there to reflect the attitude that I am endorsing, in the same way that i'd say to a thieving, violent, raping drug addict 'you're a good guy, bud'. Why? Because my concern is in being effective, and telling a thieving, violent, raping drug addict (of which i've met a few) that they are scum simply is not helpful at all.

So now you have moved the goal posts, that he hasn't got the best interests of humanity at heart, it's just that you said that to make a point.. So in actual fact, you lied to make a point.

But what attitude are you endorsing? One of appeasement? If you tell us that he has the best intentions for humanity, then you should mean it, otherwise figure out a better way to make your point. You talk of being effective. Look at the reaction you've had on here!

And the difference between Cameron and a drug addict is that the drug addict is there because they want help, that's a big difference as well. Its easy to love a "sinner" if they are looking for redemption.. Cameron doesn't want your help, he'd fucking drop you in a heartbeat.

And you failed to answer my questions.. Do we need to see a problem, to understand a problem perfectly, to then have a chance of overcoming it, or not?

Because unless you tell it as it is, that's called appeasement in my book.

And that NEVER helped no one, no how, no when.
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Old 17-12-2015, 08:21 PM   #33
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So now you have moved the goal posts, that he hasn't got the best interests of humanity at heart, it's just that you said that to make a point.. So in actual fact, you lied to make a point.

But what attitude are you endorsing? One of appeasement? If you tell us that he has the best intentions for humanity, then you should mean it, otherwise figure out a better way to make your point. You talk of being effective. Look at the reaction you've had on here!

And the difference between Cameron and a drug addict is that the drug addict is there because they want help, that's a big difference as well. Its easy to love a "sinner" if they are looking for redemption.. Cameron doesn't want your help, he'd fucking drop you in a heartbeat.

And you failed to answer my questions.. Do we need to see a problem, to understand a problem perfectly, to then have a chance of overcoming it, or not?

Because unless you tell it as it is, that's called appeasement in my book.

And that NEVER helped no one, no how, no when.
That opening paragraph is me expressing my position. The rest of the article is me explaining my position. There's no lie involved.

Yes, I talk of being effective, but that comes from experience, i.e. having these discussions. I can't just flip a switch and 'be effective'. I've got to learn how to be. And, talking of reactions, sweet Jesus, this is nothing compared to the response i've got elsewhere. Man, this is NOTHING.

And, yes, we need to see a problem as well as possible, and understand it as well as possible, if we are to solve it.
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Old 17-12-2015, 08:22 PM   #34
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Good luck with your position when dealing with psychopaths

Psychopaths need to be in treatment. End of.
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Old 17-12-2015, 08:33 PM   #35
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That opening paragraph is me expressing my position. The rest of the article is me explaining my position. There's no lie involved.

Yes, I talk of being effective, but that comes from experience, i.e. having these discussions. I can't just flip a switch and 'be effective'. I've got to learn how to be. And, talking of reactions, sweet Jesus, this is nothing compared to the response i've got elsewhere. Man, this is NOTHING.

And, yes, we need to see a problem as well as possible, and understand it as well as possible, if we are to solve it.
You were expressing your position.... Yes, and your posistion was that David Cameron has the best interests of humanity in mind....which is a lie.

I don't doubt your intention Mind. For what its worth, I think they are noble in fact. But by your own words you have a lot to learn. We all do, but I know when to admit when I was wrong.

Anyway, you didn't answer the most important question. Do we need to tell "it" as it really is, or do we appease wrongdoers?
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Old 17-12-2015, 08:36 PM   #36
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Psychopaths need to be in treatment. End of.
There is no cure and when they are all in top positions your are pretty well stuffed.
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Old 17-12-2015, 08:41 PM   #37
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Psychopaths need to be in treatment. End of.

Good luck with that too

So when would a psychopath seek treatment, before or after the damage is done?



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Old 17-12-2015, 08:44 PM   #38
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Has anyone actually tried to treat psychopathy?

I thought that they only just recognised it as a "thing" a few years back!
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Old 17-12-2015, 08:47 PM   #39
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You were expressing your position.... Yes, and your posistion was that David Cameron has the best interests of humanity in mind....which is a lie.

I don't doubt your intention Mind. For what its worth, I think they are noble in fact. But by your own words you have a lot to learn. We all do, but I know when to admit when I was wrong.

Anyway, you didn't answer the most important question. Do we need to tell "it" as it really is, or do we appease wrongdoers?
But I don't think that I was wrong. I can admit that I haven't explained my point sufficiently well enough for it to be understood, but as I understood the point to be, I still agree with it.

As for your question. I know you are intelligent enough to know that you've offered up a quite false dichotomy. It's not one or the other. If I don't tell an addict that he is a raping, thieving, lying scumbag it doesn't mean I am appeasing his raping, thieving, lying and scumbaggery... does it? However, nowhere have I said that we shouldn't tell it as it really is. I think i've made this point, but I absolutely believing in exposing injustices wherever they might be, but I also believe that it needs to be done in a productive, helpful manner.
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Old 17-12-2015, 08:49 PM   #40
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Good luck with that too

So when would a psychopath seek treatment, before or after the damage is done?



That's not really got anything to do with me or this discussion. And, it seems like a very complex question. But a good one, and deserving of a thread if you wish to start one. I'd definitely contribute to that.
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