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Old 17-03-2010, 04:22 PM   #81
jakemaverick
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Iv'e known for about 2 years now,talking to people is taking action jake,you tell them what you know..........sow the seed,what they then choose to do with the info is up to them,as i have found it's usually nothing.

I have read your blog jake and i find it very disturbing that you were treated like that,i must say you seem to have beaten them,in the sense your still here they did'nt break you.

Cloning joe stack,good idea
but as i said in the blog, just talking makes you a target i.e. u will be gang raped, tortured, harrassed, prevented from working for a living, banned form having money of any kind----and my fucking family are illegal enemy combatants now! friends driven away lost contact with long time ago....still be held effectively in what is a prison!

certainly have beaten them.......and with the brain damage fraction of athe guy i used to be! no money nohope of ever having any agn means no life = no hope....

and before that i realised just talking doesn't actually achieve anything, action is required i.e. 'using the force'....it is a war and you're not going to win by being a pacifist....

only choice is fight or dnt fight. if u r not going to fight at least keep your head down until u are prep'd to do so....talking abt it now is at the very leats going to get u put on the 'list' and sooner or later you will get got....
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Old 17-03-2010, 04:51 PM   #82
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but as i said in the blog, just talking makes you a target i.e. u will be gang raped, tortured, harrassed, prevented from working for a living, banned form having money of any kind----and my fucking family are illegal enemy combatants now! friends driven away lost contact with long time ago....still be held effectively in what is a prison!

certainly have beaten them.......and with the brain damage fraction of athe guy i used to be! no money nohope of ever having any agn means no life = no hope....

and before that i realised just talking doesn't actually achieve anything, action is required i.e. 'using the force'....it is a war and you're not going to win by being a pacifist....

only choice is fight or dnt fight. if u r not going to fight at least keep your head down until u are prep'd to do so....talking abt it now is at the very leats going to get u put on the 'list' and sooner or later you will get got....
I'm really not worried,they already stole my DNA by stealth at the hospital,already on their datsbases,banned from commenting from the beeb,any many msn comment boards.

Still very much a pacifist myself but when push comes to shove i'm prepared to fight for my family and what i believe in,just like you are.
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Old 17-03-2010, 07:20 PM   #83
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I've sent a few of the links from here to a few friends. I sent one to a friend of mine who's a doctor in a hospital too, so i'm looking forward to his response and i'll let you all know what he says.
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Old 18-03-2010, 07:30 AM   #84
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I've sent a few of the links from here to a few friends. I sent one to a friend of mine who's a doctor in a hospital too, so i'm looking forward to his response and i'll let you all know what he says.
Good work,the more we can get the word out the more chance we have of beating this.Or at least getting some answers.C an you post up anything you get back?

I put my opt-out forms into the gp practice yesterday,their is definatley something not right about this,i tried to question the receptionist,iv'e known her many years from when she was schoolgirl,she went bright red and thats it now you have put the forms in thats the end of it,i asked about the staff training with the PCT,she repeated her answer,i could'nt get anything out of her at all.
Are these people being threatened with their jobs if they answer any of our questions....just a thought
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Old 18-03-2010, 05:33 PM   #85
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i got on to this abt six or seven yrs ago, and apparently GPs were being threatned with 'non renewal' of their contracts if they didn't cooperate with it.....stands to reason that receptionists are to!

twas also abt the time GPs were getting ridiculously high pay rises...i believe average is now over 100 grand a year???? i mean c'mon, most work less hours than nurses and spend 99% of their time at their desks......
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Old 18-03-2010, 07:24 PM   #86
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I haven't yet had a personal meeting with my G.P.. I will make sure I get in to see her soon. This is the email I sent to the Big Opt Out admin team. I am still waiting to hear back from them.


************************************************** ********
Hi.
I have four questions and two issues to put to you. I don't mean to rehash any stuff on your website, but I want to be sure that all my information is completely up to date. I'll start with the questions:

1. I understand that each local surgery will upload all their Summary Care Records en masse. I understand that even if you have opted out your S.C.R. will still be sent out from the surgery and only 'hidden' on the national database at a later date. Is this true?

2. Are there strict definitions about what a S.C.R. consists of or does each local surgery decide arbitrarily? I know there are some examples given about medication and allergies, but I haven't found anything that is crystal clear yet.

3. I am quite concerned that although medication may fall under Summary Care i'm sure it can, by deduction on most occasions, say a lot about Detailed Care. Do you agree with my analysis?

4. I understand that Detailed Care Records are due to be uploaded to regional databases. I am concerned about what they mean by 'regional'. I first thought that they were doing this on a Primary Care Trust level, but later found out that this wasn't the case. I am guessing that they might try to do something on a Strategic Health Authority level. Do you have any information on this issue? To me, it would seem a very small step from what they are setting up now to a full national database of D.C.R.'s. I find this very alarming.

I hope, and would be very grateful, if you can provide me with the answers I seek.




Here are the two issues I want to put to you:

1. I have found out that customer service agents from three different P.C.T.'s have lied, wittingly or unwittingly, to people that have rung their helpline for advice. The incidents are as follows.

(i) I personally phoned my P.C.T. and was told S.C.R.'s was something I could opt in and opt out of at any time I chose. I was told that this applied to both now and any time in the future. I was told exactly the same thing applied to D.C.R.'s.

(ii) Someone else claims that they were told 'detailed medical records stay with the GP and there is no need to opt out from this'. They were ringing up specifially about the future D.C.R. situation.

(iii) Someone else claims that they were told 'D.C.R.'s were part of the Summary Care Records, so opting out of the SCR is opting out of all'.

I am not kidding you. There were three of us discussing this issue on a thread and only three calls were made. Unless, I am incorrect in my knowledge, that is a 100% P.C.T. fail rate. I am genuinely stunned. Surely, this is strong grounds to halt the process if the public are being given woefully incorrect information?

Furthermore, not as serious but still of concern, someone trying to hand in their S.C.R. opt out form at their local surgery claims:

'I have been turned away twice now,on the first occasion the reception staff told me they are not allowed to accept the opt-out form untill the PCT say they can,the staff at my surgery advised me to bring it back after 16th march,as they would of had their training from the PCT by then.'

I am at a loss why they still didn't just take the form. The forms that are currently accepted at local surgeries across the land aren't processed the second they are handed in as far as I know.

2. I have had a good look at the General Medical Council website and found information of interest. I particularly want to highlight the following text:

'The GMC registers doctors to practise medicine in the UK. Our purpose is to protect, promote and maintain the health and safety of the public by ensuring proper standards in the practice of medicine.'
http://www.gmc-uk.org/about/index.asp


Doctors must:

'Treat patients as individuals and respect their dignity

Treat patients politely and considerately
Respect patients' right to confidentiality
http://www.gmc-uk.org/guidance/good_...f_a_doctor.asp'

I am of the opinion that if an English citizen challenges their G.P., while quoting this text, that the G.P. would have no choice but to agree not to release any of their data. I am of the opinion that this view should be communicated, albeit politely, as a legal threat. This is what I am considering myself. Do you concur with my view? If you do, then how about a good template letter for people to download and threaten, albeit politely, their G.P.'s with? I am very unimpressed with this whole affair. Time is running short and any legal routes need to start now. I look forward to hearing back from you.
Thanks.
Mr. Numnuts.
************************************************** ********

The world is truly fukked if it's left to people like me to step up to the plate!!!
I am yet to hear back from the Big Opt Out Team about my email. Furthermore, their 0845 number seems to be unmanned. They acknowledge it isn't manned permanently, but I have tried several times and no one has answered. I have left a message on their answerphone too. Hopefully, I will hear back from someone eventually. My guess is that they don't have much spare time, have lost a lot of hope and not had much communication to deal with.



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Originally Posted by illuminumnuts View Post
1. I understand that each local surgery will upload all their Summary Care Records en masse. I understand that even if you have opted out your S.C.R. will still be sent out from the surgery and only 'hidden' on the national database at a later date. Is this true?
By the way, I have found out that the answer to this question is a cast iron 'Yes'.



Quote:
Originally Posted by illuminumnuts View Post
4. I understand that Detailed Care Records are due to be uploaded to regional databases. I am concerned about what they mean by 'regional'. I first thought that they were doing this on a Primary Care Trust level, but later found out that this wasn't the case. I am guessing that they might try to do something on a Strategic Health Authority level. Do you have any information on this issue? To me, it would seem a very small step from what they are setting up now to a full national database of D.C.R.'s. I find this very alarming.
I hope to get the answer to this question soon. I have already made my own enquiries and am waiting to hear back from people.



Quote:
Originally Posted by illuminumnuts View Post
2. I have had a good look at the General Medical Council website and found information of interest. I particularly want to highlight the following text:

'The GMC registers doctors to practise medicine in the UK. Our purpose is to protect, promote and maintain the health and safety of the public by ensuring proper standards in the practice of medicine.'
http://www.gmc-uk.org/about/index.asp


Doctors must:

'Treat patients as individuals and respect their dignity

Treat patients politely and considerately
Respect patients' right to confidentiality
http://www.gmc-uk.org/guidance/good_...f_a_doctor.asp'

I am of the opinion that if an English citizen challenges their G.P., while quoting this text, that the G.P. would have no choice but to agree not to release any of their data. I am of the opinion that this view should be communicated, albeit politely, as a legal threat. This is what I am considering myself.
I spoke to one of the G.P.'s at my surgery at length today about this. His stance was that my Care Records 'belong' to the N.H.S.. I wouldn't have said 'belong' sounds right, regardless if it is or not, and am of the opinion that 'looks after' would be more appropriate. He said that he didn't have the power to stop them being uploaded to national and regional databases. Ok, I accept he is right and I don't want to be a pain in the arse to my local surgery, but I still believe that a G.P. is bound by G.M.C. guidance. Therefore, we have two competing power discourses at play. What would happen if many G.P. surgeries refused to comply? What could the N.H.S. do? Get Bliar to storm G.P. surgeries in a tank? I don't see that they could do anything. Time is running short and I would rather get this stopped at source than start legal action against the N.H.S.. Many G.P. surgeries might be on our side and bow down to legal threats, but the N.H.S. wouldn't shirk a legal case and I wonder if a legal case would halt the whole process anyway. Moreover, I would have to try and get legal aid for that. I don't have a problem actually going ahead with a County Court case against my G.P. surgery though. I'm going to do a bit of brief research on the N.H.S. and their powers over our Care Records and then make a final decision. I suspect that any core N.H.S. principles on confidentiality were composed before the information age took off and are completely irrelevant to this scenario. I don't see that doing nothing is an option. At least I can say I tried. Anyone else have any thoughts?



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Originally Posted by comma berenices View Post
I put my opt-out forms into the gp practice yesterday,their is definatley something not right about this,i tried to question the receptionist,iv'e known her many years from when she was schoolgirl,she went bright red and thats it now you have put the forms in thats the end of it,i asked about the staff training with the PCT,she repeated her answer,i could'nt get anything out of her at all.
Are these people being threatened with their jobs if they answer any of our questions....just a thought
Yes, I agree there is a lot of stick and carrot going on. I spoke to someone from the N.H.S. Care Records Service recently. More spin, half-truths and outright bullshit. Even the G.P. I spoke to today, though I believed him to be truthful, seemed to be trying to shirk all responsibility. 'Complain to your M.P'. he said. We are powerless' he said. It's always better to complain, but it isn't 'likely' to help now. I will still do this and would urge others that haven't to do so. The receptionist at my G.P. surgery who I rang today went to pains to explain that this was 'nothing to do with the surgery'. In my view, if they are participating in handing over your data to massive databases then it certainly has 'something to do with them'! I think our G.P.'s need to stand up for us en masse and we need to pressure them to do so.
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Old 18-03-2010, 08:48 PM   #87
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Hi all,

I am wondering if this would be such a smart idea? Please PM me if you would be kind enough. It isn't that I'm stupid or anything it is just if I was to fall ill that means I'm snookered and cannot have access to doctors or the hospital?

Thanks.
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Old 18-03-2010, 08:54 PM   #88
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Hi all,

I am wondering if this would be such a smart idea? Please PM me if you would be kind enough. It isn't that I'm stupid or anything it is just if I was to fall ill that means I'm snookered and cannot have access to doctors or the hospital?

Thanks.
Are you addressing me? If so, then just say what you have to say on the open forum. By the way, who told you that you wouldn't have access to doctors or a hospital? That sounds like a serious porky to me. Source please.
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Old 18-03-2010, 09:03 PM   #89
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DO NOT COMPLAIN TO YOUR MP ABOUT ANYTHING!

I tried that TWICE, never again.........first time i nearly got murdered, second time far worse!
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Old 18-03-2010, 09:11 PM   #90
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DO NOT COMPLAIN TO YOUR MP ABOUT ANYTHING!

I tried that TWICE, never again.........first time i nearly got murdered, second time far worse!
Look, how do you know that wasn't for something else? I concede that 'things' can happen to people on occasion, usually low grade harassment, but attempted murder for complaining to your M.P.? I don't think that the TPB would really care much about that. If you were indeed targeted, then it was probably for another aspect of your activities. What was the subject of the complaint to your M.P.?
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I'm a glorifed sheepon so don't mess. Thus spoke numnuts. Exposing 'morons' & shills since 2006.
With a critical mass of conscious, good-hearted people I care not who makes laws or prints money.
Are you selling out your own sons, daughters, nephews and nieces? Good job! Bellboy!

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Old 18-03-2010, 09:16 PM   #91
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Thats interesting about the MP. What I'm saying illuminumnuts is that maybe as the vast vast majority will not opt out they will create a kind of force to opt in for the future. I'm just speculating it as a risk mate.

Of course that might not happen, I am going to print this of and opt out tommorow.
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Old 18-03-2010, 09:27 PM   #92
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Thats interesting about the MP. What I'm saying illuminumnuts is that maybe as the vast vast majority will not opt out they will create a kind of force to opt in for the future. I'm just speculating it as a risk mate.

Of course that might not happen, I am going to print this of and opt out tommorow.
I think that the 'vast, vast majority' is an exaggeration. Furthermore, if people understood exactly what was happening the majority would opt out in my view. If the PTB really thought no one cared they would have included opt out forms with the literature that was sent out. When I spoke to a G.P. at my local surgery he told me a fair few people were opting out so far. What that meant as a percentage I don't know. What you do is your decision. This isn't some pointless new law we have to follow or a new tax we have to pay. This is about extremely personal data. I know damn well this will be deliberately misused and prone to other fiascos. Furthermore, within a few years the regional Detailed Care Records regional database will be shunted on to the ready made national database. This is a point of principle and not with my data thank you!
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I'm a glorifed sheepon so don't mess. Thus spoke numnuts. Exposing 'morons' & shills since 2006.
With a critical mass of conscious, good-hearted people I care not who makes laws or prints money.
Are you selling out your own sons, daughters, nephews and nieces? Good job! Bellboy!

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Old 18-03-2010, 09:31 PM   #93
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Oh really the gp said that? I must be wrong then.
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Old 18-03-2010, 09:32 PM   #94
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DO NOT COMPLAIN TO YOUR MP ABOUT ANYTHING!

I tried that TWICE, never again.........first time i nearly got murdered, second time far worse!
I'm shocked to hear that Jake ...I'm not making fun of you as it's no laughing matter but what is far worse than 'nearly murdered'? Murdered?

I wrote to my useless MP and accused him of treason and sedition and consequently received a strongly worded letter in reply ...still he has proved himself as useless as I said and couldn't run a bath let alone hire a hitman. I don't write to him anymore or phone the police or complain. I'm even considering not signing petitions anymore ...why are we petitioning? 'requesting' ...we should be making demands surely.
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Old 18-03-2010, 09:38 PM   #95
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Oh really the gp said that? I must be wrong then.
It's semantics I suppose. He might have meant 10%-15% are opting out so far as an educated guess. What did you mean by 'vast, vast majority'? That would mean at least 95% to me.
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Old 19-03-2010, 04:34 AM   #96
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I'm shocked to hear that Jake ...I'm not making fun of you as it's no laughing matter but what is far worse than 'nearly murdered'? Murdered?

I wrote to my useless MP and accused him of treason and sedition and consequently received a strongly worded letter in reply ...still he has proved himself as useless as I said and couldn't run a bath let alone hire a hitman. I don't write to him anymore or phone the police or complain. I'm even considering not signing petitions anymore ...why are we petitioning? 'requesting' ...we should be making demands surely.
all in the sig.....i did/ said a lot less to him than you did! caborn was teh first allegedly, dug pigthe second....(became my MP allegedly after i was made homeless and had to doss dwn with family)

i dnt sleep anymore, henc ebeing 05:30 .....i'm with u now, thry hve to torture me agn to make me spek to them...

but if i was still campaigning i wd be thinkingFOI request for numbers opting out? how much spent on advertising what they are doing? etc......
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Old 19-03-2010, 02:49 PM   #97
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It seems things aren't quite as clear cut as the G.P. at my local surgery told me, though I don't doubt his integrity. I'm not one to blindly trust someone because they are a G.P., but I have known him for a long time. This article gives more weight to my view about challenging my G.P. surgery through the County Court system. I am going to contact the British Medical Association, the union of doctors, and try to chat to someone on my side. Hopefully they can do a press release to their members urging them not to fight court threats from their patients and to welcome them. If enough people do this we can win. The G.P. surgeries will be halted from uploading Summary Care Records en masse to the national database. Just one person sending a letter to one surgery is enough for now. Eventually, the PTB will naturally tell the affected surgeries to remove the people that opted out at source and upload the rest, but it gives us more publicity and time to challenge the Detailed Care Records system that will next be rolled out. Moreover, those that have opted out of S.C.R.'s will have truly opted out. That is what opting out should mean! I will wait until Monday to see if I hear back from The Big Opt Out team and if I don't I will knock up my own preliminary court letter and post it on this thread. I will welcome any feedback before I send my one off. I am happy for the final version to be used as a template and sent viral. Sorry power control freaks, but not with my data you don't! Now fukk off!


************************************************** ********
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...hnologysection

Michael Cross The Guardian, Thursday 6 July 2006
Patients, not the state, own medical records, says GP

The world's largest IT project is building an electronic health record for every NHS patient in England. No one seems to know who will own it. An historic fudge that served in the days of paper records seems unlikely to hold when patients view their own records on the world wide web - and government and business seek to tap the unprecedented knowledge base created.

Guardian Technology's Free Our Data campaign does not advocate free access to health records - quite the opposite. But the policy we propose is based on the campaign's central principle, that citizens rather than government bodies should own data created on our behalf.

Professor Mike Pringle, a healthcare informatics expert and a leading clinician advising the NHS IT programme, says the question of who owns an electronic medical record has always been a bone of contention. In the days when records were on paper, he says, a rule of thumb was that the secretary of state for health owns the paper; the GP the ink; and the patient the information. In the computer era, he says, the picture can be confused by ownership of equipment. However, "I support the view that the information in the record is owned by the patient, but others borrow it for legitimate purposes of patient care."

Arrangements for such borrowing are the subject of controversy - one reason, according to the NHS, why the electronic care records programme is running two years late. All parties agree that patients should give consent before their records are shared. The main argument is whether the NHS can presume patients gave implicit consent by signing up with a GP, or whether they should have to "opt in" to the system. The Department of Health favours the first; concerned doctors, led by the British Medical Association's general practice committee, the second. The dispute will have to be settled before tests begin of a system to share summary health records across the network.

The NHS is preparing a national information campaign to inform patients about shared records. One way to build confidence would be to emphasise that patients own their data and have a right to view it and correct it, as well as decide who should see it.

Under the Data Protection Act, patients have a right to view their records. However, the NHS makes only a half-hearted attempt to publicise this right and GPs are allowed to charge patients up to £50 for the privilege. Dr Richard Fitton, a GP who routinely allows patients to see their electronic records, says the government should state outright that patients own their data. "If you pay me through taxes to produce a record I think that philosophically these records belong to you. If you want me to publish them on the web, or give you a complete copy, that's fine." Fitton dismisses as rubbish the idea that patients should be spared clinical details. "If you're dying of cancer, you want to see everything."
************************************************** ********
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I'm a glorifed sheepon so don't mess. Thus spoke numnuts. Exposing 'morons' & shills since 2006.
With a critical mass of conscious, good-hearted people I care not who makes laws or prints money.
Are you selling out your own sons, daughters, nephews and nieces? Good job! Bellboy!

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Old 19-03-2010, 05:17 PM   #98
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Good work,the more we can get the word out the more chance we have of beating this.Or at least getting some answers.C an you post up anything you get back?

I put my opt-out forms into the gp practice yesterday,their is definatley something not right about this,i tried to question the receptionist,iv'e known her many years from when she was schoolgirl,she went bright red and thats it now you have put the forms in thats the end of it,i asked about the staff training with the PCT,she repeated her answer,i could'nt get anything out of her at all.
Are these people being threatened with their jobs if they answer any of our questions....just a thought
Hi, sorry i'm not ignoring you, i'm just still waiting for his email. I'll definitely post his response though no worries.
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Old 20-03-2010, 06:39 PM   #99
hey_jude
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all in the sig.....i did/ said a lot less to him than you did! caborn was teh first allegedly, dug pigthe second....(became my MP allegedly after i was made homeless and had to doss dwn with family)

i dnt sleep anymore, henc ebeing 05:30 .....i'm with u now, thry hve to torture me agn to make me spek to them...

but if i was still campaigning i wd be thinkingFOI request for numbers opting out? how much spent on advertising what they are doing? etc......
Excellent idea ...I'm on it
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Old 20-03-2010, 07:13 PM   #100
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Excellent idea ...I'm on it
good man!!!
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