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Old 02-05-2013, 02:43 PM   #41
zephiloyd
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Not propaganda.
Just truly awful science.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...ld-mmr-vaccine


Just another slimeball preying on the sick to line his own pockets.
Is that really the best you can do for "evidence"?
Guardian

How about interviews with the man himself, or don't you allow yourself to listen to him, because the MSM has told you that he is BAD
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:43 PM   #42
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So the options are remain healthy and live to a ripe old age by using the right vitamins and minerals, or get alzheimers/cancer/ or something else awful and die younger, I know what I would prefer. However, if you've allowed yourself to be poisoned, I suppose you have to defend your actions
but you have offered me no proof that i will die younger lol

just your opinion

and like i said i am in good health

and 99.99% of the population will die from something

Last edited by joho; 02-05-2013 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:45 PM   #43
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I'm not sure if I trust the Guardian as a reliable source myself...then again, that's what makes this issue rather intractable. Neither point of view respects or gives credence to the other's source material.

I personally find this quite compelling, though I daresay others will disagree:

30 Years of Secret Official Transcripts Show UK Government Experts Cover Up Vaccine Hazards To Sell More Vaccines And Harm Your Kids
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:49 PM   #44
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Neither the wiki link or Guardian were offering opinions though.


The Lancet withdrew his paper as fraudulent.
He was struck off the GMC for the same fraud and VERY questionable techniques that put children through painful tests they did not need.
He attempted to profit from his own falsified findings through the patent he sought.

Are you claiming that wiki and the guardian made those things up?
I don't understand?
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:50 PM   #45
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but you have offered me no proof that i will die younger lol

just your opinion

and like i said i am in good health

and 99.99% of the population will die from something
Many would argue that an early death is not the aim. And perhaps you and others are healthy in spite of immunisation (and thanks to the fact that the human immune system is so often robust and stubborn) rather than because of it.

Plenty of people who regularly drink aspartame-laden products remain healthy for decades too, in spite of aspartame's generally accepted toxicity.

Same goes for fluoride in the water.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:52 PM   #46
chuchichastli
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Originally Posted by faustus View Post
Neither the wiki link or Guardian were offering opinions though.


The Lancet withdrew his paper as fraudulent.
He was struck off the GMC for the same fraud and VERY questionable techniques that put children through painful tests they did not need.
He attempted to profit from his own falsified findings through the patent he sought.

Are you claiming that wiki and the guardian made those things up?
I don't understand?
To be really honest, I don't know. The only thing I do know is that I do not trust them very much.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:55 PM   #47
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but you have offered me no proof that i will die younger lol

just your opinion

and like i said i am in good health

and 99.99% of the population will die from something
That can't be proven, but why should you trust Big Pharma, when known eugenicists like Bill Gates sit at the top of the vaccination industry pretending not to be killing poor black kids, and there is this


and this

Aluminum in Vaccines Linked to Alzheimer’s Disease

http://www.sovereignindependentuk.co...imers-disease/

Last edited by zephiloyd; 02-05-2013 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:58 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by chuchichastli View Post
Many would argue that an early death is not the aim. And perhaps you and others are healthy in spite of immunisation (and thanks to the fact that the human immune system is so often robust and stubborn) rather than because of it.

Plenty of people who regularly drink aspartame-laden products remain healthy for decades too, in spite of aspartame's generally accepted toxicity.

Same goes for fluoride in the water.
if they want to kill us off there are far easier ways

i mean look at the man made flu for a start
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/man-mad...ry?id=15043553


they could just withhold oil that would kill off billions

there are a multitude of far more effective and quicker ways
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:00 PM   #49
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That can't be proven, but why should you trust Big Pharma, when known eugenicists like Bill Gates sit at the top of the vaccination industry pretending not to be killing poor black kids, and there is this

Vaccine pioneer admits adding cancer-causing virus to Vaccine - YouTube

and this

Aluminum in Vaccines Linked to Alzheimer’s Disease

http://www.sovereignindependentuk.co...imers-disease/
i do not trust them i look at the evidence i know to be true i am in good health and i have kids

so i have zero reason to believe that i am been killed off in that way or made sterile

Last edited by joho; 02-05-2013 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:00 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by faustus View Post
Neither the wiki link or Guardian were offering opinions though.


The Lancet withdrew his paper as fraudulent.
He was struck off the GMC for the same fraud and VERY questionable techniques that put children through painful tests they did not need.
He attempted to profit from his own falsified findings through the patent he sought.

Are you claiming that wiki and the guardian made those things up?
I don't understand?
You trust the Lancet

It is another criminal operation, engaged in covering up the truth in order to maintain the reputations of the "Big Pharma brainwashed" doctors
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:05 PM   #51
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So you're saying the entire General Medical Council, along with respected journals and other researchers who attempted and failed to reproduce the findings are all involved in a conspiracy to debunk this mans questionable findings that he based on 8 case studies?

And why? Because of Big Pharma and its profits?
His attempt to profit himself had nothing to do with it at all? A happy accident?
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:05 PM   #52
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i do not trust them i look at the evidence i know to be true i am in good health and i have kids
You've said that already. So you trust the MSM to tell you the truth about vaccines?

Should the parents of these kids have trusted the system?

47,500 paralysis cases after polio vaccine

http://therefusers.com/refusers-news.../#.UYKAKUqgibU

"The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic." - Joseph Stalin

Last edited by zephiloyd; 02-05-2013 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:06 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by joho View Post
if they want to kill us off there are far easier ways

i mean look at the man made flu for a start
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/man-mad...ry?id=15043553


they could just withhold oil that would kill off billions

there are a multitude of far more effective and quicker ways
Undoubtably true. Do you think it's possible, however, that vaccinations could have been engineered to interfere with DNA to make the body particularly vulnerable to a yet-to-come disease (who knows what scary name it will be given, croc flu? rhino flu?) which is to be released at a more opportune time? (Like the needle&jab equivalent of a Trojan Horse)

Or perhaps that they have been engineered to target certain racial types...?

I'm not saying I'm sure this is happening, although I do believe the ruling elite to be capable of such things, both scientifically and ethically.

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Old 02-05-2013, 03:08 PM   #54
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You trust the Lancet
Let me guess....

When it DID publish his "findings" it was a trusted and honourable publication?

Then when it discovered the fraud and retracted it for same, it magically become dishonourable and untrustworthy? Yes?
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:09 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by zephiloyd View Post
You've said that already. So you trust the MSM to tell you the truth about vaccines?

Should the parents of these kids have trusted the system?

47,500 paralysis cases after polio vaccine

http://therefusers.com/refusers-news.../#.UYKAKUqgibU

"The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic." - Joseph Stalin
again i TRUST THE EVIDENCE I KNOW TO BE TRUE not what msm or governments tell me

so why am i in good health and with kids?

either they made a exception in my case or your wrong

and while we are at it i have 7 brothers and they have all had vaccinations and they all have kids

Last edited by joho; 02-05-2013 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:11 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by faustus View Post
So you're saying the entire General Medical Council, along with respected journals and other researchers who attempted and failed to reproduce the findings are all involved in a conspiracy to debunk this mans questionable findings that he based on 8 case studies?

And why? Because of Big Pharma and its profits?
His attempt to profit himself had nothing to do with it at all? A happy accident?
I'm only saying I don't know; although I don't trust these sources to give me an accurate and balanced representation of the issue. The media can be and often is used as a tool to obfuscate and distort.

And lots of scientists are blissfully naive, focusing on the dot of their research to the detriment of their peripheral vision.

It's a dangerous combination.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:11 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by faustus View Post
So you're saying the entire General Medical Council, along with respected journals and other researchers who attempted and failed to reproduce the findings are all involved in a conspiracy to debunk this mans questionable findings that he based on 8 case studies?

And why? Because of Big Pharma and its profits?
His attempt to profit himself had nothing to do with it at all? A happy accident?
No they DID reproduce his findings, but yes a monumental criminal cover up.

http://www.naturalnews.com/033425_BM...Wakefield.html
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:15 PM   #58
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The media can be and often is used as a tool to obfuscate and distort.

And lots of scientists are blissfully naive, focusing on the dot of their research to the detriment of their peripheral vision.
I agree totally with both those statements.

But if we are to question the science involved, then there is MUCH to be questioned not just in Wakefield's methods and his so-called findings, but also his statements following his own work in which he contradicted his own findings.
And what about the issue of his financial motive to prove the link so he could profit from his patent?

If we are saying that this whole massive conspiracy involving Journals, the GMC and other researchers was profit driven - why can we not say the same about Wakefield.
And which is more believable in scope? One man trying to line his own pockets, or hundreds if not thousands working against him to line someone else's?
Occam's Razor anyone?

Last edited by faustus; 02-05-2013 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:18 PM   #59
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I agree totally with both those statements.

But if we are to question the science involved, then there is MUCH to be questioned not just in Wakefield's methods and his so-called findings, but also his statements following his own work in which he contradicted his own findings.
And what about the issue of his financial motive to prove the link so he could profit from his patent?

If we are saying that this whole massive conspiracy involving Journals, the GMC and other researchers was profit driven - why can we not say the same about Wakefield.
And which is more believable in scope? One man trying to line his own pockets, or hundreds if not thousands working against him to line someone else's?
Occam's Razor anyone?
have you listened to the man himself or read what he has had to say about it all?
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:20 PM   #60
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I agree totally with both those statements.

But if we are to question the science involved, then there is MUCH to be questioned not just in Wakefield's methods and his so-called findings, but also his statements following his own work in which he contradicted his own findings.
And what about the issue of his financial motive to prove the link so he could profit from his patent?

If we are saying that this whole massive conspiracy involving Journals, the GMC and other researchers was profit driven - why can we not say the same about Wakefield.
And which is more believable in scope? One man trying to line his own pockets, or hundreds if not thousands working against him to line someone else's?
Occam's Razor anyone?
Oh yes, I'm wary about Wakefield too: I didn't intend to give the impression I was necessarily defending him.

The situation merely highlights some of the important questions about vaccinations, the murky world of its research and funding, and the less-than excellent journalistic standards of the corporate media that seem to be so staunchly attacking vaccination naysayers these days.

It makes me smell a rat. But I accept I'm a long, long way from the bottom of this...
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