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Old 23-10-2008, 02:01 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by tom bombadil View Post
Send in a cheque for the full amount unsigned. Tell them to cancel the summons. When the cheque comes back, wait a few weeks and send it in again, this time signed not using your signature.

Fuck-em up this way untill you have the full amount or know what to do.


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Don't do that.
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Old 23-10-2008, 02:22 PM   #22
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This would be a delay tactic. It would show in the first instance that you want to pay. It is always up to you what you do in any situation. The main point would be just how you take action against those that are doing this because they can and not because it is the right thing to do. If you respond with like then you are doing what cames natraly.

It would get the case dropped and in the meantime give you space.

It is as simple as saying the cheque is in the post.



If you dont know what to do or are lost and in the dumps then you must do something. If you sit on your hands and do as they wish then you are just another 'dumb' sucker (forgive me on that one). But if you fight the good fight and do all that you can, then you have tried.

I am all for the Freeman ideal, but that is when I am on top. Not when I am in a corner (as you are). Make a desition today. Are you going to let them have their day in court or are you going to have yours?



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Old 23-10-2008, 03:45 PM   #23
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What is a council tax?
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Old 23-10-2008, 03:59 PM   #24
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What is a council tax?
Do you guys pay like a general state tax?

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Old 23-10-2008, 04:11 PM   #25
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Maybe you could ask for proof of the notice letters and if they cant provide proof they have been sent then maintain in court that you never received them. Otherwise you might want to screw the lot and go for the freeman approach.
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Old 23-10-2008, 04:28 PM   #26
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What is a council tax?
Tax collected by the local council based on the market value of the property you live in (whether or not you own it) and payable on each adult living in the property, with some discount for bulk

It's been rising very fast and in great amounts in recent years. For example, I live in a one bedroom flat and the council tax is over £900 a year

Given that the minimum wage in the UK equals £12,500, you can see what a large proportion of Tax this actually is, on top of Income Tax, Value Added Tax and all other sorts of levies one has to pay... Road Tax, TV Licence etc etc
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Old 23-10-2008, 05:39 PM   #27
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Well I have just spoken to my Mother (who also works in Law) and she has told me that you need to go, and that the Judge will laugh it out because you're not in arrears, you just pay it late. And coincidently, so does my Mum! Apparently she gets these letters all the time. She pays hers (ours) a week late EVERY month and has done since as far back as she can remember, because of the date she gets paid.

So if everything you've said is indeed the truth, and you can provide proof you DO pay it EVERY month, albeit late because of pay day, then you have nothing to worry about. Just go this time and explain the situation, then you should be fine from then on even if you get future letters...

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Old 23-10-2008, 06:09 PM   #28
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Hi truthseeker These councils really are a law unto themselves and seem to revel in sending out summons after 'late' payments...it happened to me once and I am sure I did not receive two letters, I thought they had to send out a reminder and a red lettered final reminder?...I tried reasoning with them but they said they could not cancel it so an appearance would seem like the only option to plead your case...give these online UK solicitors a go

http://uk-law.justanswer.com/?r=gala...FQWR1QodqSLuxw
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Old 23-10-2008, 09:51 PM   #29
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Every year for the past three I've recieved a check from the council for over payment of council tax.

Very soon I will be refusing to contract with them any more! We have to starve the machine that seeks to enslave and destyroy us!

Become a freeman and all this shite goes away!
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Old 23-10-2008, 09:55 PM   #30
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Ahhh the joys of being on benefits
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Old 23-10-2008, 10:23 PM   #31
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Every year for the past three I've recieved a check from the council for over payment of council tax.

Very soon I will be refusing to contract with them any more! We have to starve the machine that seeks to enslave and destyroy us!

Become a freeman and all this shite goes away!
you have a few weeks, try emailing the folks at thinkfree.ca , detailing your problem, they may be able to help you double-cross the council into a loophole....

either way, watch some of their vids and maybe you'll come across the info you need, they have some very useful info on court proceedings...
p.s. Dondaz - do you know of any uk based freeman links / societies? am very probably going to take the plunge soon and want to do some final checking... how is it working out for you?
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Old 24-10-2008, 10:01 AM   #32
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Well I have just spoken to my Mother (who also works in Law) and she has told me that you need to go, and that the Judge will laugh it out because you're not in arrears, you just pay it late. And coincidently, so does my Mum! Apparently she gets these letters all the time. She pays hers (ours) a week late EVERY month and has done since as far back as she can remember, because of the date she gets paid.

So if everything you've said is indeed the truth, and you can provide proof you DO pay it EVERY month, albeit late because of pay day, then you have nothing to worry about. Just go this time and explain the situation, then you should be fine from then on even if you get future letters...
Thanks for the info Mace, my flat mate and i sat down last night and actually worked out what we should have paid to date by installments which equals £1023.37, we have actually paid £1031.11 and they have admitted that is the amount they have cashed.

So in actual fact they OWE us £7.74.

Due to the fact I was on hold waiting to speak to someone for just under an hour in total yesterday (which i have to make back) and I didn't get a lunch break (talking onthe phone to very unhelpful people at the council) and will have to take a days unpaid leave to attend the hearing.

Is there any action we can take against the council?

1. We owe them nothing
2. They owe us £7.74
3. I have to take a day's unpaid leave
4. I have to work an extra hour
5. Not to mention the stress of all of this

Any people know if we can put a case against the council? I really hope we can they are going to regret doing this to me. Can we demand they pay the £7.74 within a very short frame of time follwed up with emails stating if they dont we will take legal action?
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Old 24-10-2008, 11:13 AM   #33
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Default Make your council pay!!!

I just had a call from the 4th person at Harrow Council and explained that they are in debt to us, she still wouldn't waive the summons cost of £125, so i have penned this email to send tothem.

If there are any legal professionals or anyone who has done something similar please can you give me your feedback before i send this over to them? Email below.

Dear Fern Silverio,

It seems we have been summoned to court for NON-PAYMENT of COUNCIL TAX, although the council tax office has admitted Harrow Council have cashed £1031.11 of our money to date. This was confirmed by Ushma Elder on 23.10.08.

The amount we are due to have paid to date for the year APR-2008 - MAR-2009, paying by 6 installments of £146.00, together with the first initial payment of £148.37 equates to £1024.37.

As I mentioned above and had confirmed by Ushma Elder and Sarah Parker we have paid and Harrow Council have cashed £1031.11 of our money. Which results in Harrow Council being in debt to MY NAME IN CAPITALS & FLATMATE NAME.

I am sending this email as a reminder that you owe MY NAME IN CAPITALS & FLATMATE NAME £6.74, failure to pay this money to either MY NAME IN CAPITALS or FLATMATE NAME within 48 hours will result in legal action being taken against the council. You will not be sent another reminder and have 6 hours to reply to this email.

If the summons cost is not erased and we have to attend court, a claim against Harrow Council will be made for one days unpaid leave, as well as an extra hour I am due to make back, and the logistical costs of travel to court and from court for both MY NAME IN CAPITALS & FLATMATE NAME.

I look forward to hearing from you.
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Old 24-10-2008, 11:48 AM   #34
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Thanks for the info Mace, my flat mate and i sat down last night and actually worked out what we should have paid to date by installments which equals £1023.37, we have actually paid £1031.11 and they have admitted that is the amount they have cashed.

So in actual fact they OWE us £7.74.

Due to the fact I was on hold waiting to speak to someone for just under an hour in total yesterday (which i have to make back) and I didn't get a lunch break (talking onthe phone to very unhelpful people at the council) and will have to take a days unpaid leave to attend the hearing.

Is there any action we can take against the council?

1. We owe them nothing
2. They owe us £7.74
3. I have to take a day's unpaid leave
4. I have to work an extra hour
5. Not to mention the stress of all of this

Any people know if we can put a case against the council? I really hope we can they are going to regret doing this to me. Can we demand they pay the £7.74 within a very short frame of time follwed up with emails stating if they dont we will take legal action?

Hi truthseeker I think the 'problem' is (this will be their defence) that they received the payments late and not as 'agreed' in the first letter that was sent to you thus do not waste too much of your time and cause yourself unnecessary stress fighting a cause that you might not win.... I think you should get advise (CAB, ring solicitor or online) work out what your case is and go to court and state it....
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Last edited by diamond dogs; 24-10-2008 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 27-10-2008, 03:49 PM   #35
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Default COUNCILS OPERATING AS PRIVATE for PROFIT

I am going to document this on this thread as i get more information, so if anyone has a council trying the same thing when in actual fact they owe you money, try this, obviously it's trial and error for me but hopefully I'll get to a conclusion which can be used there after.

I didn't send the email i wanted to above as I wasn't sure that I could legally do it.

So I spoke with the helpful guys at tpuc.org who suggested I wirte the council a letter mentioning that The Local Government Finance Act 1992 which you quote, contravenes the Treason and Felony Act 1848, and therefore renders the 1992 Finance Act invalid.

Email is copied below:

Dear Fern Silverio,

The Local Government Finance Act 1992 which you quote, contravenes the Treason and Felony Act 1848, and therefore renders the 1992 Finance Act invalid.

Also to the above it seems we have been summoned to court for NON-PAYMENT of COUNCIL TAX, although the council tax office has admitted Harrow Council have cashed £1031.11 of our money to date. This was confirmed by Ushma Elder on 23.10.08.

The amount we are due to have paid to date for the year APR-2008 - MAR-2009, paying by 6 instalments of £146.00, together with the first initial payment of £148.37 equates to £1024.37.

As I mentioned above and confirmed by Ushma Elder and Sarah Parker we have paid and Harrow Council have cashed £1031.11 of our money. Which results in Harrow Council being in debt to MY NAME & FLATMATE NAME by £6.74.


I look forward to hearing from you.


I got this response:

Dear Mr MY NAME

Thank you for your recent email, the contents of which have been noted.

Contrary to your statement that the Local Government Finance Act is invalid, I can assure you that this is incorrect, if it was invalid the Magistrate's Court would not approve any summons applications.

Please be advised that your bill dated 13/03/08 clearly stipulated your payments were due on the 1st of each consecutive month and you could have ensured that your payments were always received on time by setting up a Direct Debit.

Furthermore, the full charge is actually due on the 1st of April of any given financial year but for ease of payment an instalment plan of 10 months is offered to resident's on the condition that it is adhered to.
Failure to make payment in accordance with the payment plan results in your right to pay by instalments being revoked and a summons being issued.

As your May instalment was not received by 19/05/08 a 1st reminder notice was issued and when your August instalment was not received by 21/08/08 a 2nd reminder notice was issued. Each notice forewarned of the consequences of further late payment and so when your payments fell into arrears again the next natural recovery notice to be sent was a summons.

I can confirm that the summons has been issued correctly in accordance with Council Tax legislation and will not be withdrawn nor the costs removed.

You now have 2 payment options, please chose one of the following and confirm by return email and I will set it up for you.

1/ Pay the remaining balance of £556.26 before the court date to avoid a Liability Order being obtained.


2/ Pay the remaining balance of £556.26 over 3 months from 01/11/08 to 01/11/08, payments will be approximately £236.00 per month.

I await your reply.

Yours sincerely



Ms H Randhawa
Court & Insolvency Officer


So i spoke to the Tpuc guys who told me they dont get magistrates to send out summons, they rent a room in a court house to give themselves validity, but in fact the council do issue the summons, which is illegal.
They told me to ask for the bill signed by the drawer or CEO under his full commercial liability and penalties of perjury, and that you accept his offer of full and final settlement of this debt, and that upon receipt of this bill will make full payment.

So I have now sent them the below and am awaiting reply.

Dear Ms H Randhawa,

Thank you for your swift response in this matter.

If I receive the bill signed by the drawer or the CEO under his/her full commercial liability and penalties of perjury, I will accept the offer of full and final settlement of this debt and upon receipt of this bill will make full payment.

I look forward to your reply.


Will keep this updated so if anyone else experiences the same or similar we truthseekers can stand against the failing system and slowly the PEOPLE WILL WIN.
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Old 27-10-2008, 07:39 PM   #36
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what a coincidence I received a demand for non payment myself on Sat and when I called them to find out what it was all about they also said they’d sent 2 previous letters which I didn’t receive and apparently since they have proof of posting that’s enough for the courts. What a load of shit
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Old 27-10-2008, 08:01 PM   #37
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I received a letter for non payment of council tax this morning with a court date for next month. My boyfriend came out of work at the beginning of the month because his work didn't pay him his overtime & bonus last month & we were financially screwed so had missed 2 payments of Council Tax. We have unfortuantely had to start claiming Housing & Council Tax benefits.

I telephoned the Council & asked how did they think I was going to be able to pay over £600 in one lump sum when they have on the system that we are currently waiting for our benefits & that we are not receiving any Jobseekers Allowance at the moment due to my partner walking out of his work so we have to wait 6 weeks for it. The woman on the phone started speaking down to me & also said that I had been sent reminders, which I have not received!!
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Old 28-10-2008, 03:11 AM   #38
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Anyone got any ideas what i should do?

Hello
Sorry to hear about your plight but it really is very coomon. All the councils use an automated system and if the due dates are missed a computer will in due course generate a summons.
The good thing is you are in the right because you have been paying and presumably have the reciepts.
Go to court on the day and show the reciepts and what will happen is the council barrister will withdraw the summons. 9 times out of 10.
The problem is they may insist on the costs being levied.
No county court judge will rule against you provided you are up to date and have the proof.

Dont forget - continue to pay the monthly payments as normal even this month to prove to the court you are still on form.

PS:
I dont agree with my colleagues about citizens advice centres.
In London they are total shit. Manned by unemployed solicitors who havent a clue and in any case you have to queue up and they have quotas so only the first 8 people get seen.
You dont need them anyway, explain to the council barrister in court and i am sure they will be reasonable.
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Old 28-10-2008, 08:52 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by john white View Post
Tax collected by the local council based on the market value of the property you live in (whether or not you own it) and payable on each adult living in the property, with some discount for bulk

It's been rising very fast and in great amounts in recent years. For example, I live in a one bedroom flat and the council tax is over £900 a year

Given that the minimum wage in the UK equals £12,500, you can see what a large proportion of Tax this actually is, on top of Income Tax, Value Added Tax and all other sorts of levies one has to pay... Road Tax, TV Licence etc etc
That is ridiculous.
Here in the USA u only have to pay property tax if u own the property.
God that is awful.
I cannot even imagine what it would be like having to pay that.
If someone lives in a big apt building and everyone has to pay this council tax that is the same amount....that is high way robbery!

If u dont own a property, but just rent, you should not have to pay a tax.

Once again this shows that the UK is the homeland of fascism with the USA right behind it.

thanks
for answering my question.

-
M
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Old 28-10-2008, 09:02 AM   #40
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Have any of you tried the office of fair trading? I serisouly think this is a good avenue to follow, your local council is a monopoly, all be it a state sanctioned one, but they still can't abuse that position.

The oft are good people, there to look out for you the consumer.
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