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Old 23-04-2011, 12:32 AM   #21
thoreau
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Originally Posted by yozhik View Post
So again you revert to using old eyes and building stinking piles?
Nah not at all.

I can see that it may appear that way but if I can manage to explain better I hope you will see what I am getting at... here goes...

If you can put aside for a second those that make the statutes for the purposes of my explanation only.

Statute came into force in order to change laws that were outdated. With fresh eyes and taking into account changing attitudes and technological advances.

From everything people have said here it is not the instruments of change that are neccesarily the problem more the arbitrary way in which they are made and implemented.
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Old 23-04-2011, 04:57 AM   #22
indolering
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Icke wrote about some of the ideas expressed in this thread back in 1994 in The Robots' Rebellion. I've chosen an excerpt which seems particularly relevant. The key, of course, is keeping control at the local level, never allowing the disastrous consolidation and centralization of power that we see today.



From chapter 16:

Politicians should be there to empower people. The key words are enable, allow and respect. To enable people to realize their full potential and follow their own instincts; to allow people to do whatever they wish and live in any way they choose as long as it does not cause harm to others; and to respect the rights of all people to control their own lives and make their own choices. The representative is a servant, not a dictator.

Modern politics has got the two mixed up. From these principles, communities will decide on a system of representation that suits them. There will be no imposition of rigid structures by national and international governments once the transformation is well under way. Communities will be in control. I see elected representation as only part of community action. With the new consciousness, cooperating will come naturally without the need for laws and regulations of the kind we have so many of today.

The world is drowning in laws and legislation because of the desire to control people and in response to the negative behavior of those disconnected from their true selves. Representation will evolve with rising consciousness and in reaction to the collapse of the old structures.

But, here are a few ideas which are likely to play some part in the new politics in the post-Brotherhood world:
I think we will see Neighborhood Councils representing groups of houses and streets. If someone is lonely or hungry or in any sort of need, it will be the role of the Neighborhood Council to take the necessary action. They will not ring Social Services because Social Services won’t exist in the way that it does today. Everything will be on a smaller, community scale.

The explosion in the Welfare State and Social Services has been a reaction to the collapse of community. Now that the Brotherhood elite have largely achieved that, they will seek to squeeze the welfare services. Neighborhood Councils will alert the people of their area as to what needs to be done and will sort it out themselves, whenever possible. You could set up a Neighborhood Council where you live, today. Through this, you could co-ordinate the care of the people in your area by the people in your area.

There is no need to wait for the crash. It is a tragedy that so many do not even know who lives in the flat next door, let alone at the end of the street. Centralization and the system of divide and rule, have brought this about. It is time to change this but it will not be easy. It will take commitment and there will be many people who fear participation because they have been programmed to believe that they are here to follow, not to lead.

But, these changes will happen because circumstances and awakening consciousness will demand them. The more we can de4ink from the system now and prepare the groundwork for community organization, the smoother the transition will be.

Neighborhood Councils will have a representative on the Community Council. How big an area these Community Councils will cover will be decided by the people involved, in consultation with other communities around them. I would see elected Community Councils working alongside community forums.

These forums would be open to everyone to present their views and suggestions for ways of improving the community. They would allow the knowledge and ingenuity of people to be given a hearing. Today, we have professional politicians making decisions about subjects they know little or nothing about. Those who are close to these subjects are never asked to speak in the debates or to offer their insight into problems which they work with every day.

Giving people that opportunity in the present system of centralized control is almost impossible because there are too many people involved. But, in a community situation, that would not be the case. Everything would take place on a human scale. Even now, under the present system, there is no reason why community forums could not be organized to give a platform for local views and action. Indeed, this is happening as awakening people follow their instincts.

The elected Community Council would attend these regular forums and listen to the people they represent. The councils would consist of people elected from right across society. Besides representatives from each neighborhood there would be the opportunity for all sections of society to have an elected spokesperson -food producers, shopkeepers, employees, environmental groups, young people, old people, and so on.

I would suggest a similar dual approach to economic organization. Elected representatives to a community economic cooperative would coordinate the day-to-day organization and development of the community economy while an economic forum would allow everyone to contribute to the discussions on economic matters.

People are much more enthusiastic and motivated when they know they have the opportunity to contribute and make a difference. You will be amazed at how many apparently insuperable problems can be solved once human ingenuity is harnessed to its full potential. The task for these community economies in the transition period will be to provide food, shelter, warmth and clothing for everyone and to do it in ways that are environmentally sustainable.

I would see the main roles of Regional Government to be the following: To support the communities in their efforts to be self-reliant in all essentials; to ensure that essentials which cannot be provided locally are provided from surpluses in other communities; to coordinate necessary trade between communities to the mutual benefit of both; to be a forum for communities to exchange information and experiences; to pass on details of new discoveries and technology which would benefit communities and add to their self reliance; to arbitrate in disagreements between communities; and to ensure that the actions of one community do not adversely affect another, either economically or environmentally.

The regional level will be particularly important in the transition period in organizing food distribution to the big urban areas which do not have enough food-growing land to feed themselves.

I do not believe the present national governments, as such, will be necessary, although groups of regions may choose to get together to support each other. The next level of representation after regional could be continental. These would be areas covered today by the European Community or the United States and Canada -that sort of size. I would see these as forums and coordinators, not governments.

This is very different from the present European Community model which is little more than an economic trading bloc with system-serving and centralizing motivations. The continental forum I am thinking of would be a meeting place where regional representatives could exchange ideas and discuss issues of mutual interest. This level would arbitrate on disagreements between regions, ensure that one region was not harming others economically and environmentally, and help to identify and direct the essentials of food, warmth, clothing and shelter to regions who were not yet self-reliant or who were struggling, temporarily, from the effects of natural disasters.

They would also coordinate relief operations in places where natural disasters had occurred, with expertise, transport and technology on permanent standby to be on the scene in the shortest possible time. This would be a kind of Global International Rescue which all communities and regions could call upon.

The other level of representation would be the World Forum. This is not the same as World Government. It would be a place where representatives from the continental forums would meet to discuss topics that affected the whole world. It would arbitrate in disagreements between continents and co-ordinate the provision of essentials which a continent was unable, at any stage, to provide for itself.

The World Forum would have no army at its disposal and, apart from powers to intervene to prevent environmental degradation that had global implications, it would have no other power to impose its decisions. All armies will be dismantled when the transformation of consciousness is well underway. I would also see the World Forum as a body that would represent the planet in formal interaction with other Universal Civilizations which are going to be openly visiting this planet and we theirs in the future just as we visit other countries today.

We desperately need forms of democracy that empower and involve all people. The present ‘democracies’ were created by the Brotherhood with built-in flaws to ensure they were only illusions of freedom:
“All these so called ‘People’s Rights’ can exist only in idea, an idea which can never be realized in practical lift. What is it to the proletariat labourer, bowed double over his heavy toil, crushed by his lot in lift, if talkers get the right to babble, journalists get the right to scribble any nonsense side by side with the good stuff? The proletariat has no other profit out of the constitution save only those pitiful crumbs which we fling them from our table in return for voting in favor of what we dictate, in favor of men we place in power...”
(Illuminati Protocol 3).
This devolution of economic and representative power to communities with support, but not control, from above has built-in environmental benefits. People, as a rule, do not wish to pollute their own neighborhood. National governments give permission for polluting factories to be imposed only on those communities where they don’t have to live themselves.

The main motivation of a national government is economic growth, not the wishes of one community. With decision-making transferred to community level, the incentives to reject polluting technology are far greater. If you are seeking to be self-reliant you are going to look after your environment as a first priority because that is your self-reliance. The link between a sustainable environment and a sustainable economy will be staring you in the face every day.

This structure is not a model for the future written in stone. I have only outlined a few ideas to illustrate some of the trends that are already quietly underway and which will come to the fore as the transition proceeds to challenge the Brotherhood nightmare of central control.

I expect the economics and representation of the future to be much more diverse than a single, set structure. In every community and region there will be variations on the theme of self-reliance in essentials and decision-making at the lowest level possible. There will be many difficulties and complications to overcome because these trends are faced with a world that has been geared and created to serve a very different system.

Communities and regions do not break down into neatly packaged units with the ideal ratio of farmland to people. We have appalling urban sprawls and it will be some time before anything like the ideas I have put forward will be reality world-wide. There will be a lot of chaos, hard work and learning from experience before that can happen. What we can do is make a start now and try to de-link ourselves as much from the system as we can.

It is worth noting again that the fewer material wants we have the less we need to work and earn to live. This frees more time for us to do what we really want to do. If we simplify our material lives we give ourselves choices which are denied us if we work, work, work to chase the material dream and its symbols of ‘success’.

We need to free ourselves from the so-called work ethic. This insists that, unless we are in paid employment all day, at least five days a week, we are lazy and work-shy. What rubbish. But what could be better for the system over the last two hundred years than for us to believe in the work ethic and its misguided morality?

With people rejecting this conditioning and giving themselves time and opportunity to use their full creativity, we will see such changes for the better; an explosion in the arts for a start. Music, in particular, has a fundamental role to play in using its vibrations to raise the frequency of the planet, although it can be used to do the opposite in the wrong hands. We are going to discover more notes and tones as the changes gather pace.

People think that the collapse of the present order will see us living in caves and tents for evermore. But the release of human creativity will lead us into a world of abundance. Being poor is not purity, it is poverty, and we will have the means to remove this cancer. Ours will be a world that celebrates and encourages beauty, style and excellence in all things. The idea, put forward by some, that living rough has some kind of spiritual street-cred is a delusion, I feel. The transformation is about balance while poverty is an obvious sign of imbalance within a society.
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Old 23-04-2011, 07:29 AM   #23
yozhik
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Originally Posted by thoreau View Post
Statute came into force in order to change laws that were outdated. With fresh eyes and taking into account changing attitudes and technological advances.
Problem being; I don't agree with your premise.

Sure, it's only my opinion, as is the premise you offer, your opinion.
But if we can't agree on the premise, the debate is in a bit of trouble.

I'm mindful, given the BLANK PAGE, that to go down opinionated paths is a recipe for this thread to go in the same direction as all the others.
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It [...] maintains that God, the State, and society are non-existent, that their promises are null and void, since they can be fulfilled only through man's subordination.


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Old 23-04-2011, 09:52 AM   #24
thoreau
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Originally Posted by yozhik View Post
Problem being; I don't agree with your premise.

Sure, it's only my opinion, as is the premise you offer, your opinion.
But if we can't agree on the premise, the debate is in a bit of trouble.

I'm mindful, given the BLANK PAGE, that to go down opinionated paths is a recipe for this thread to go in the same direction as all the others.
Taken on board
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Strong minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, weak minds discuss people - Socrates
No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams - Maya Mendoza
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Old 23-04-2011, 11:59 AM   #25
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Can someone answer me this;

I recently bought a book called 'freedom is more than just a seven letter word' by Veronica of the Chapman Family. I have skim read it and found the concepts to be interesting and enlightening.

My question would be has anyone else read it and would they recommend using the information presented when dealing with TPTB?
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Old 23-04-2011, 12:02 PM   #26
thoreau
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Can someone answer me this;

I recently bought a book called 'freedom is more than just a seven letter word' by Veronica of the Chapman Family. I have skim read it and found the concepts to be interesting and enlightening.

My question would be has anyone else read it and would they recommend using the information presented when dealing with TPTB?
I have read it - infact I have so many issues with it I am in the process of writing a rebuttal lol

If it reasonates with you then you will find a lot of discussion etc here about some its its premises and there are a lot of knowledgable people on both sides that can help you solidify your beliefs regarding its premise.

Whichever side of the wall you land on regards fmotl have fun discussing it
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Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you’ve imagined.HENRY DAVID THOREAU
Strong minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, weak minds discuss people - Socrates
No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams - Maya Mendoza
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Old 23-04-2011, 12:16 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by thoreau View Post
I have read it - infact I have so many issues with it I am in the process of writing a rebuttal lol

If it reasonates with you then you will find a lot of discussion etc here about some its its premises and there are a lot of knowledgable people on both sides that can help you solidify your beliefs regarding its premise.

Whichever side of the wall you land on regards fmotl have fun discussing it
Well I know little about the legal system so after reading that book it was like someone was presenting an alternative way of living your life outside the constrints of modern legalese. But when reading I did get that feeling if it seems too good to be true it probably is, so you may well be justified in writing a rebuttal.
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