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Old 18-06-2015, 12:15 PM   #41
twilight_sparkle
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they teach kids in school that self actualization through a career is the highest priority in a person's life in order to be fulfilled. so our purpose in life is to be a taxpayer. women liberated so they can become bricks in the wall. it's never about what the authorities say that it's about.
They do not teach kids to " self actualize" within the education system, if you knew what this meant and the origins in Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs you would see you were wrong.
Most people go to work simply to remain on the first and second rung of the ladder, food and shelter.
You have to get higher up the Pyramid to self actualize.
Children are taught in school to " work for the man" , be good little slaves and not question authority. Both male and female children are cogs in the machine built by capitalism.
The hyper authoritarianism of the patriarchy feeds this, it is by nature materialistic and has profane, not spiritual goals. Kids are expected to go into minimum wage jobs at Starbucks and McDonald's as a matter of course, no matter their long term goals. It will break their spirit just like their training throughout childhood has done.
A woman can either be in servitude within the microcosm of a patriarchist home, where she is declined basic human rights and security, or be at the mercy of a patriarchal macrocosm which is the goal for modern America. Both systems fail when she reaches the third rung of the ladder, more often the second one actually, freedom from fear.
You are confusing liberation for simply another form of slavery.


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Old 18-06-2015, 12:48 PM   #42
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I'm not saying there isn't literature on the subject, just that the quiverfull folks are few and far between and they're not in league with the new world order.
Yes they are, because as they extend their reach around America by interbreeding, members of their extended family will be installed into positions of prominence where they can influence the next generation , through propagandist home schooling programs, to support the Republicans and remove civil liberties from those they consider " infidels".
Josh Duggar was installed on the committee of Focus On The Family, for example and gained the support of Arkansas governor, Mike Huckabee. There is more of this poison spreading than you might think, and I'm not anti Christian, far from it, but I am against this stealth approach entrapping the citizens of the US into a theocratic nationalism which works against everyone's best interests except them at the top. I hope we don't get into this trap in my country. One of my worries about leaving Europe is us being forced into an alliance with the USA, the " special relationship" of the Blair/ Clinton days! But now in favour of the extreme right!
( Whereas they were the less extreme right)

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Old 18-06-2015, 02:38 PM   #43
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But now in favour of the extreme right!
( Whereas they were the less extreme right)
A bit OT. Politically there is no difference between the so called left and the so called right. We are just being sold different branding of the same poison.

Doesn't matter who gets elected. Innocent kids in Pakistan are still going to get blown to bits by drones.
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Old 18-06-2015, 03:33 PM   #44
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Cool kids blown to bits

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A bit OT. Politically there is no difference between the so called left and the so called right. We are just being sold different branding of the same poison.

Doesn't matter who gets elected. Innocent kids in Pakistan are still going to get blown to bits by drones.
MB,

I agree. It is just different branding of the same agenda. There is amazing subversion regarding reproduction. My big beef is that it is the children that are deprived in the long run.
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Old 18-06-2015, 05:23 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by twilight_sparkle View Post
They do not teach kids to " self actualize" within the education system, if you knew what this meant and the origins in Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs you would see you were wrong.
Most people go to work simply to remain on the first and second rung of the ladder, food and shelter.
You have to get higher up the Pyramid to self actualize.
Children are taught in school to " work for the man" , be good little slaves and not question authority. Both male and female children are cogs in the machine built by capitalism.
The hyper authoritarianism of the patriarchy feeds this, it is by nature materialistic and has profane, not spiritual goals. Kids are expected to go into minimum wage jobs at Starbucks and McDonald's as a matter of course, no matter their long term goals. It will break their spirit just like their training throughout childhood has done.
A woman can either be in servitude within the microcosm of a patriarchist home, where she is declined basic human rights and security, or be at the mercy of a patriarchal macrocosm which is the goal for modern America. Both systems fail when she reaches the third rung of the ladder, more often the second one actually, freedom from fear.
You are confusing liberation for simply another form of slavery.

maslow's hierarchy is actually what I was referring to. I learned about that in school. maslow had his priorities out of order. self regard leads to unhappiness. when we make others happy first, we will also be happy. of course the elite want us to pursue selfish endeavors. of course the elite want us to believe that fulfillment is found in work life, so we become productive tax payers.

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Yes they are, because as they extend their reach around America by interbreeding, members of their extended family will be installed into positions of prominence where they can influence the next generation , through propagandist home schooling programs, to support the Republicans and remove civil liberties from those they consider " infidels".
Josh Duggar was installed on the committee of Focus On The Family, for example and gained the support of Arkansas governor, Mike Huckabee. There is more of this poison spreading than you might think, and I'm not anti Christian, far from it, but I am against this stealth approach entrapping the citizens of the US into a theocratic nationalism which works against everyone's best interests except them at the top. I hope we don't get into this trap in my country. One of my worries about leaving Europe is us being forced into an alliance with the USA, the " special relationship" of the Blair/ Clinton days! But now in favour of the extreme right!
( Whereas they were the less extreme right)
as mb said, it's just a different packaging on the same product. but, the fact of matter is that the patriarchals or quiverfulls are a fringe group that make up a very, very small minority of people in the usa. it's not the boogie man you're making it out to be.
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Old 18-06-2015, 05:50 PM   #46
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A bit OT. Politically there is no difference between the so called left and the so called right. We are just being sold different branding of the same poison.

Doesn't matter who gets elected. Innocent kids in Pakistan are still going to get blown to bits by drones.
I completely agree with you, on principle, David has talked a lot about " opposames" - I personally think politics is like a mobius strip which either way you go you end up with the same thing. The problem is that the public and the electorate do not see things in these terms, it's all black and white with them not fifty shades of gray! The Democrats are seen as liberal and progressive, and allowed their side show freak black and female candidates, whereas the Republicans don't sugar coat their prejudice and wave their white male privilege like a flag. It's the same forces that control both of them.
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Old 18-06-2015, 06:04 PM   #47
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I completely agree with you, on principle, David has talked a lot about " opposames" - I personally think politics is like a mobius strip which either way you go you end up with the same thing. The problem is that the public and the electorate do not see things in these terms, it's all black and white with them not fifty shades of gray! The Democrats are seen as liberal and progressive, and allowed their side show freak black and female candidates, whereas the Republicans don't sugar coat their prejudice and wave their white male privilege like a flag. It's the same forces that control both of them.
You'll get no argument from me there.

Some people will actually vote for Hillary on the sole reason she is a woman. They have no idea about her policies, her role in Benghazi and her numerous lies - such as being shot at in Kosovo and being named after Edmund Hillary etc.

This should tell one all they need to know about the political process. Quite frankly, I don't want these people making decisions that may impact on me.
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Old 18-06-2015, 06:28 PM   #48
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You'll get no argument from me there.

Some people will actually vote for Hillary on the sole reason she is a woman. They have no idea about her policies, her role in Benghazi and her numerous lies - such as being shot at in Kosovo and being named after Edmund Hillary etc.

This should tell one all they need to know about the political process. Quite frankly, I don't want these people making decisions that may impact on me.
Just like people voted for Obama simply because he is black. Whatever they are they are glove puppets, because the elite will never reward anyone unless they are good little boys and girls and play by the book. The same male white privileged class that go through Yale and Harvard, join the Skull and Bones, the Bohemia Club and other high Masonic orders pull the strings, the difference is whether they do it in secret or out and proud. The Christian Patriarchy are alas, the latter.
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Old 18-06-2015, 06:31 PM   #49
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maslow's hierarchy is actually what I was referring to. I learned about that in school. maslow had his priorities out of order. self regard leads to unhappiness. when we make others happy first, we will also be happy.
Untrue. If it were a matter of life and death, all your high minded ideals would go out of the window and you'd kill and eat your best friend.
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Old 18-06-2015, 06:39 PM   #50
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Just like people voted for Obama simply because he is black. Whatever they are they are glove puppets, because the elite will never reward anyone unless they are good little boys and girls and play by the book. The same male white privileged class that go through Yale and Harvard, join the Skull and Bones, the Bohemia Club and other high Masonic orders pull the strings, the difference is whether they do it in secret or out and proud. The Christian Patriarchy are alas, the latter.
I know very little about the Christian Patriarchy. I read your link and I am sure what you have said about them is correct.

Do you see them as being an influence at all on the next election?

The reason I don't is that (assuming Hillary is favored) they will just select a Republican that is so unpalatable to the Dems and the independent voters that they will either not vote or vote for Hillary.

That, and the huge number of Democrat voting illegals, will annul any Christian Right influence.

Regarding Skull and Bones, interesting the Bush and Carey contested an election!!!

My view for what it is worth anyway.
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Old 18-06-2015, 06:48 PM   #51
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I know very little about the Christian Patriarchy. I read your link and I am sure what you have said about them is correct.

Do you see them as being an influence at all on the next election?

The reason I don't is that (assuming Hillary is favored) they will just select a Republican that is so unpalatable to the Dems and the independent voters that they will either not vote or vote for Hillary.

That, and the huge number of Democrat voting illegals, will annul any Christian Right influence.

Regarding Skull and Bones, interesting the Bush and Carey contested an election!!!

My view for what it is worth anyway.
I am English, so I'm observing this from afar and probably not nearly as clued up about American politics as I should be. I personally see Hillary Clinton as the favorite, because she is a woman but for no other reason. I could see homosexuals, transsexuals, native Americans, you name it being trotted out as democrat candidates just to prove how " progressive" they are. But once these " progressive" values anger enough people to cause a landslide in the other direction, the Christian Patriarchists will have won. They will make liberalism preposterous by legalizing pedophilia, bestiality, promoting drug abuse, late term abortion, hard core gay porn, incest marriage between humans and robots, you name it to cause moral decline and social anarchy, then sit back and wait for the public to protest. The " liberals" will be the enemy then for " turning against God", so the elite will very publicly turn against them. It's "divide and conquer" in action.

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Old 18-06-2015, 06:51 PM   #52
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Untrue. If it were a matter of life and death, all your high minded ideals would go out of the window and you'd kill and eat your best friend.
that's not true, and you really can't say what I'd do in such a circumstance. in reality, people have given up their lives for the lives of their loved ones. it happens.
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Old 18-06-2015, 06:55 PM   #53
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I am English, so I'm observing this from afar and probably not nearly as clued up about American politics as I should be.
that explains it. I live in the states btw.
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Old 18-06-2015, 07:00 PM   #54
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that explains it. I live in the states btw.
And you're a middle class, white, male?

To address your otter point, evangelicals in the UK, not so much the CofE or the Catholic church, but most of the charismatic Pentecostal churches, the JWs and the Brethren produce very little literature of their own, nor media, instead spreading magazines and tracts which originate within the big US corporate evangelical entities such as Trinity and CBN, Benny Hinn ministries, Kenneth Copland ministries, Chick Tracts, Christianity Today etc. It's easy to see American ideas leeching into the British consciousness, even the wacko ones. I don't mind jelly and peanut butter, but you can keep your doom prophets for yourself!

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Old 18-06-2015, 07:36 PM   #55
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It seems I am on second level on Maslow's pyramid scheme. But IMHO there are 7-level Maslow pyramid.
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Old 18-06-2015, 07:46 PM   #56
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And you're a middle class, white, male?
sorry, not going to be revealing personal details like that here.
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Old 18-06-2015, 07:54 PM   #57
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It seems I am on second level on Maslow's pyramid scheme. But IMHO there are 7-level Maslow pyramid.
The problem with Maslow's Hierarchy is that it generalizes.

It assumes that everyone has the same value scale. People's preferences are not the same.

I might go to a war torn region to rescue my wife. Therefore, love would rank higher than safety on that scale (that is, it is a need I would desire to satisfy before safety). Also consider an adrenaline junky may not rank safety that high etc.

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Old 18-06-2015, 08:02 PM   #58
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Untrue. If it were a matter of life and death, all your high minded ideals would go out of the window and you'd kill and eat your best friend.
Unfair. I do believe most people would eat their best friends, but Logos wouldn't...unless maybe they had died of natural causes
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Old 18-06-2015, 08:22 PM   #59
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Unfair. I do believe most people would eat their best friends, but Logos wouldn't...unless maybe they had died of natural causes
During the Holodomor - the forced starvation of the Ukrainians by the Russians - as a response to cannibalism the Communists placed adverts in the local media discouraging cannibalism.

A much more humane response than giving the Ukrainians any of the tons of stock piled food.
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Old 18-06-2015, 08:31 PM   #60
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Unfair. I do believe most people would eat their best friends, but Logos wouldn't...unless maybe they had died of natural causes
thanks friend.

...see what I did there.
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