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Old 19-08-2015, 10:45 PM   #41
h2pogo
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Originally Posted by blackyblue View Post
Disagree.

This is nothing like English football hooligans going abroad and twiddling their repulsive belly buttons while chanting "God save our queen".

This was happening in a London exhibition centre.
You are not having it rubbed in your face, and are not forced to go.

It is more like you and a few mates having a drink in your own home and forgetting to close your window when a few passing Muslims hear you crack a joke about one of their idols, so they come and knock on your door and threaten you with violence, or either that start crying.

The only reason that Muslims cant take the piss out of Christians, is because Christians only have Jesus as an idol.

Muslims cannot take the piss out of Jesus, because they to Believe in Isa.
But if Christians had an idol that Muslims did not believe in, you can bet your life they would rip the piss.
The point you dont seem to get when one group think they are above the other and can tell the others what to do and insult them there will never be peace..

the bit in bold exemplifies your knowlage...google the word respect
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Old 19-08-2015, 10:53 PM   #42
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Default Circus Zion ...

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Originally Posted by muhammad bear View Post

There is almost a fear of offending Islam. Whether that is as a result of the constant threat of religious violence that is always just simmering below the surface, or be it a desire to conform to political correctness, I have no idea. But it is becoming a well entrenched cultural meme.

Even Chunky, who is often very direct in his condemnation of religion and religious violence felt it necessary to add a qualifier to the end of his post. That his condemnation isn't solely aimed at Muslims. I am not aware of Chunky offering the same sentiments when it comes to offending Christianity. But I could be wrong on that.

This fear of offending Muslims or succumbing to intimidation has to stop.
There is also the angle to it, that you do not want to join the elite planned circus Zion next performance ... personally I have more emphasis on this aspect, than to see exhibit comics in a art gallery that address issues which I know will annoy a minority which already have been heavily stigmatized since 2001 and where again the Bosnia massacre should be mentioned because the course took place in Europe for a very short time ago ...we are now at the point where there are a number European cities with weekly scheduled anti-Muslim demonstrations...

On this basis, then the picture do changes a little bit ...


Quote:
And Sharia is a bad idea. Any legal system that results in the stoning to death of a woman who has been raped, and therefore committed adultery, is a bad idea.
Indeed I am right behind you with this ...

Quote:
But even assuming it is all engineered, even this does not in any way restrict the right to free speech.
Agreed, but for me it does change some of what I want to say with this free speech...

In fact, it makes me to express what I now utters ... so it works the opposite for me...I believe

but it is also a bit of a paradox because there are actually many elements that are extremely reprehensible ... and probably results in a lack of reformation, after all it is the youngest branch on the tree ...
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Last edited by dr steam; 20-08-2015 at 12:13 AM.
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Old 20-08-2015, 01:48 AM   #43
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The point you dont seem to get when one group think they are above the other and can tell the others what to do and insult them there will never be peace..

the bit in bold exemplifies your knowlage...google the word respect
Muhammad

Speaks to Gabriel, believes himself a prophet, starts preaching, has no success, then just when he thought he had failed, he gets accepted in Medina, and finally gets a following.

Then, what does he do when he gets a following?

623, The Caravan raids = steels from Meccans in order to finance himself and his new cult

623, invades Al Kudr = stealing 500 Camels, and keeping one 5th of the financial gains to himself, while sharing the rest with his converts

624 Battle of Badr = Lead Medina into Mecca and slaughtered the Meccan army while murdering all key opponents to prophet positions

624 Invasion of Sawiq = Abu Sufyan raids al Uraid (suburb of Madinah), then flees
Muhammad sends men after him (bringing back some sawiq, a type of flour)

624 Expulsion of Banu Qaynuqa = Kicks the Jews out of Madina

624 Invasion of Dhi Amr = Muhammad sends 450 men after the Banu Talabah and Banu Muharib tribes
Tribe members flee into mountains

ect ect ect

For the next 10 years its just a whole list of assassinations, attacks, theift, ect


Yeah, this really deserves respect
Why should it be disrespectful to mock this?

And why should anyone care if someone finds this being mocked, disrespectful?
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Old 20-08-2015, 08:13 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by blackyblue View Post
Muhammad

Speaks to Gabriel, believes himself a prophet, starts preaching, has no success, then just when he thought he had failed, he gets accepted in Medina, and finally gets a following.

Then, what does he do when he gets a following?

623, The Caravan raids = steels from Meccans in order to finance himself and his new cult

623, invades Al Kudr = stealing 500 Camels, and keeping one 5th of the financial gains to himself, while sharing the rest with his converts

624 Battle of Badr = Lead Medina into Mecca and slaughtered the Meccan army while murdering all key opponents to prophet positions

624 Invasion of Sawiq = Abu Sufyan raids al Uraid (suburb of Madinah), then flees
Muhammad sends men after him (bringing back some sawiq, a type of flour)

624 Expulsion of Banu Qaynuqa = Kicks the Jews out of Madina

624 Invasion of Dhi Amr = Muhammad sends 450 men after the Banu Talabah and Banu Muharib tribes
Tribe members flee into mountains

ect ect ect

For the next 10 years its just a whole list of assassinations, attacks, theift, ect


Yeah, this really deserves respect
Why should it be disrespectful to mock this?

And why should anyone care if someone finds this being mocked, disrespectful?
And thats the whole truth
I liked the medina coinstitution , goes to show you are unable to put anything into context, your support of Turkey killing the kurds proves this, when there is hatred and superiority in your heart all you will see is evil.,like all nationalist state cults.
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Old 20-08-2015, 08:19 AM   #45
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If Mohammed has a message, it's get off your arse and get what you want by any means possible(while avoiding getting caught if those means are illegal). Him and Thatcher on the same side, eh? Who'd a thunk it?

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Old 20-08-2015, 11:33 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by h2pogo View Post
And thats the whole truth
I liked the medina coinstitution , goes to show you are unable to put anything into context, your support of Turkey killing the kurds proves this, when there is hatred and superiority in your heart all you will see is evil.,like all nationalist state cults.
Like i said, Kurds are rebels of "the Ottoman empire".
They refuse to accept defeat.

They have no exclusive rights to an empire, and while Muslims did have an empire that stretched deep inside europe and allied itself with Germany, they were quite happy to ally themselves with Nazi genociders, and Kurds themselves were quite happy to genocide 275,000 Syrians and 102,000 delusional Christians.

Coincidentally, this is exactly what Muhhamad would instruct them to do.


(So while it looks barbaric 8000 muslims getting genocided in Bosnia and those evil mean turks attacking the Kurds, the Kurds given enough power, want to "rule you" aswell. They are not freedom fighters like you seem to think....they are following the protocols of a "notorious" warlord)

So while i can equate with how impressionable young men could be attracted to Muhammad, a man capable of delivering quick riches and easy answers, his idolness would and should be that of a "warlord" than a "prophet", because ultimately, he was more evil than good. He was a radical extremist, a mass murderer, and he was greedy.
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Last edited by blackyblue; 20-08-2015 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 20-08-2015, 01:33 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by h2pogo View Post
When people dont have respect and deliberatley wind each over up there is always a threat of violence..This antimuslim group are certainly deliberatley winding up..
You seem to be saying that violence is justified in this case?

I'll repeat my previous question as it went unanswered. Do you think restricting free speech is the best solution to preventing violence?

Aren't there laws in place against violence already?

They don't seem to be working.

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Originally Posted by h2pogo View Post
Are anti jew groups even allowed in uk? Isnt such a thing actaully more extremist than the average musilm sect? not many muslims are whabbis you know..
If you want to play that card then both Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller were denied entry into the UK. For what they might say.

They have never incited violence.

Their only sin seems to be having been critical of one religion.

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Originally Posted by h2pogo View Post
And you think it is ok to wind up muslims but not gays?
I never said that.

But let me clarify for you. I personally, have no reason to criticize gays over their lifestyle. But I did say, if someone wishes too they should be free to do so, though I would find their logic absurd.

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Originally Posted by h2pogo View Post
Here in ireland there was a threat of violence towards no gay marriage campaigners..And marriage imposes lifestyle on children , that was the main argument.
They are free to make that argument. I disagree with it. But they are not free to threaten violence against people who only want to celebrate their love for each other.

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Originally Posted by h2pogo View Post
And btw how is your free speech affected by this?
I think I've answered it.

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Originally Posted by h2pogo View Post
All i can say is it seems a very deliberate provocation well cooridinated with the authorities to divide and rule..isnt that obvious?
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Originally Posted by dr steam View Post
There is also the angle to it, that you do not want to join the elite planned circus Zion next performance ... personally I have more emphasis on this aspect, than to see exhibit comics in a art gallery that address issues which I know will annoy a minority which already have been heavily stigmatized since 2001 and where again the Bosnia massacre should be mentioned because the course took place in Europe for a very short time ago ...we are now at the point where there are a number European cities with weekly scheduled anti-Muslim demonstrations...
There certainly is another angle to this.

I certainly accept that a lot of this is engineered. By way of example, Al Qaeda was (and probably still is) the CIA code word for the Mujahideen fighting in Afghanistan against the Russians.

Brzezinski was fundamental in setting up Al Qaeda too. He was also Obama's political advisor in his first election campaign.

Take 9/11. That certainly wasn't carried out by Muslims living in a cave. There were certainly elements of the US government involved and maybe Saudi and maybe Israel.

But the point is that it wasn't Bin Laden.

So I get that aspect.

But this manipulation of Islam is done for two purposes. One, to get us to give up our rights under the virtually non-existent threat of terrorism. To quote Benjamin Franklin "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither." The second, as has been pointed out, is divide and conquer. There may be other goals, but I'll stick with two.

Now, I agree that we do not want to cooperate with this.

Therefore, by giving up our right of free speech we would certainly be cooperating with the first purpose. To reiterate, the right to free speech means that ALL speech should be protected. So the answer to globalists desire to have us give up our freedoms is to exercise them more. And that means tolerating the more controversial speech.

This doesn't mean people can't speak out against ideas they find offensive. I would encourage them to do so in fact. But let's have a conversation about it as opposed to rioting and looting.

People these days seem more outraged by the offense to a religion rather than the threat of violence to quash free speech. Somehow I don't think that they have their priorities right.

The second is more complicated but the answer is still more free speech.

Take ISIS as an example. There are literally thousand of Westerners leaving their countries to go and fight for ISIS. We never saw this with Al Qaeda. Why not?

The reason is that Al Qaeda did not want to establish a Caliphate. ISIS does. That should, at the very least, tell you that ISIS is acting in accordance with Islamic doctrine notwithstanding it is being managed by the CIA.

First I would ask the question, where are the moderate Muslims speaking out against this. All I hear is that I'm wrong and I am misunderstanding Islam by pointing out the warrant for this is found in Islamic texts. The so called moderates are more concerned with correcting my misunderstanding rather than that of ISIS, the religious authorities in the Middle East and the thousands of young men and women going to join ISIS. Anyone else see a problem with that?

Now it may well be that many moderates are afraid to speak out against this. I can understand why. It is much more risky for them to speak out against it than it is for me. They will be regarded as an apostate whereas I am just an ignorant Kafir that misunderstands Islam.

That is one reason we need to have this discussion. By remaining silent, we isolate and disempower the moderate voices.

Another reason is that a strategy of divide and conquer relies on emphasizing differences. In Islam it is defamatory to criticize Islam, even if the criticism is true. So by taking away our rights to criticize Islam the law makers are reinforcing the hegemony of Islamic supremicism.

Islam is to rule over other laws and must not be criticized.

Thereby emphasizing the differences as part of a divide and conquer strategy.

Finally, tyrants have always quashed free speech when they take a country over. They are trying to get us to give up our rights to make us safer against terrorists. But once they get the grid in place they will switch it and use it against us.

We are already seeing this strategy in the US. The Left is now trying to run the ridiculous narrative that Libertarians, gun owners and Constitutionalists are aiding and supporting Al Qaeda.

Cartoons have always been a very powerful way to break down the dominant paradigm. Political satire has been a staple of editorial hit pieces against bad ideas. There is nothing wrong with ridiculing ideas through cartoons. And there should not be any exceptions.

The advantage of a cartoon is that it will appeal to someone who does not have the patience to read a long editorial or academic article.

When I posted that Motoon (above) I went out of my way to find one of the less offensive ones and one that, to me, actually had a clever satirical message. I am sure it was still offensive to some.

But that wasn't my intent.

My intentions were too underline how ridiculous it is to take offense at a clever piece of satire that illustrates that societies the disempower women are destined to remain in the dark ages.

Had I been in the UK for the exhibit I would have been out there showing my support.


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Originally Posted by dr steam View Post
Agreed, but for me it does change some of what I want to say with this free speech...
That's absolutely fine. It is up to the individual how they wish to exercise this right.

All I am saying is that had you wished to say something more controversial you should be free to do so.

If you want to deny the Holocaust for example. I have no problem with that. I would disagree, but that is my right.

The only time I would support a repression of free speech is on private property. A Mosque, for example, would be entirely within its rights not to allow entry to me and my unwelcome views. I support their right to do so.

But this right to censor does not extend to a public forum.

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Originally Posted by dr steam View Post
In fact, it makes me to express what I now utters ... so it works the opposite for me...I believe
But that is the whole point.

We are having this discussion.

You and I may not entirely agree on this issue. But I respect your views, I am not offended by the fact that you disagree with me. I welcome it in fact, and I would like to learn more about your arguments. I could be wrong in my views and I won't know unless I listen to your arguments.

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Originally Posted by dr steam View Post
but it is also a bit of a paradox because there are actually many elements that are extremely reprehensible ... and probably results in a lack of reformation, after all it is the youngest branch on the tree ...
I agree.

It would be very difficult to reform.

It is the final revelation and it is the perfect book dictated word for word by Allah through the angel Gabriel.

The inventors of the narrative were very clever too. Muhammad had no sons so there cannot be any future prophets to contradict the story.

But we still need to have the discussion.

Last edited by muhammad bear; 20-08-2015 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 20-08-2015, 01:57 PM   #48
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Do the cartoons qualify as 'Incitement to ethnic or racial hatred' and therefore would be restricted under the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006?

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Old 20-08-2015, 02:02 PM   #49
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Do the cartoons qualify as 'Incitement to ethnic or racial hatred' and therefore would be restricted under the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006?
Have Christians threatened the maker of "Life Of Brian" with threats of violence or death?

p.s
When i use the term Christian, i mean christian by denomination.
Christianity in reality is well and truelly dead....So it seems that even Christians of denomination are quite willing to watch life of Brian and have a good laugh, and make it a best seller.
How then can Christian peoples by denomination be considered prejudice, when they also rip the shite out of themselves?

If Muslims want to pull out ethnic, religious or racial hatred cards, and you support this.
Then you must also support the likes of Logos, when he decides to pull out that card, otherwise what we are witnessing, is the worst case of prejudice you could possibally imagine
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Old 20-08-2015, 03:07 PM   #50
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For me it comes down to motivation.

Nobody gave a toss about cartoons depicting Mohammed until people realised that these cartoons were seriously pissing the Muslims off.

It's very childish. Images depicting their Prophet annoy the hell out of them....I suggest leaving them (the Muslims) alone and not antagonising them.

Of course we have a right to say whatever we want, but do we need to exercise that right (in this case) for it to exist?

From The Life of Brian..

Quote:
Matthias: Look, I don't think it should be a sin, just for saying "Jehovah".
[Everyone gasps]

Jewish Official: You're only making it worse for yourself!

Matthias: Making it worse? How can it be worse? Jehovah! Jehovah! Jehovah!

Jewish Official: I'm warning you! If you say "Jehovah" one more time (gets hit with rock) RIGHT! Who did that? Come on, who did it?

Stoners: She did! She did! (suddenly speaking as men) He! He did! He!

Jewish Official: Was it you?

Stoner: Yes.

Jewish Official: Right...

Stoner: Well you did say "Jehovah."

[Crowd throws rocks at the stoner]

Jewish Official: STOP IT! STOP IT! STOP IT RIGHT NOW! STOP IT! All right, no one is to stone _anyone_ until I blow this whistle. Even... and I want to make this absolutely clear... even if they do say, "Jehovah."

[Crowd stones the Jewish Official to death]
Oh, and many of the Pythons did receive death threats when the film came out in 1979...

Last edited by oneriver; 20-08-2015 at 03:10 PM.
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Old 20-08-2015, 09:51 PM   #51
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a gallery full of mohammhed cartoons?
what on earth for, except to stir up shit.
no good can come of such blatant provocation.
for shame.
If you can be provoked by an exhibition you had the freedom to ignore then I don't think you're mentally suited to life in the west.

We now have a voluntarily part sharia compliant society.
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Old 20-08-2015, 09:53 PM   #52
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Isnt Islamists chopping heads off in the name of Islam making a bigger mockery of their religion than anyone else?
No actually, you'd know this if you studies Islam from authentic sources.

Its not the wonderful enlightened humanitarian ideology you think it is, its the morality of the medieval Arabian desert.
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Old 21-08-2015, 10:47 AM   #53
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Have Christians threatened the maker of "Life Of Brian" with threats of violence or death?

p.s
When i use the term Christian, i mean christian by denomination.
Christianity in reality is well and truelly dead....So it seems that even Christians of denomination are quite willing to watch life of Brian and have a good laugh, and make it a best seller.
How then can Christian peoples by denomination be considered prejudice, when they also rip the shite out of themselves?

If Muslims want to pull out ethnic, religious or racial hatred cards, and you support this.
Then you must also support the likes of Logos, when he decides to pull out that card, otherwise what we are witnessing, is the worst case of prejudice you could possibally imagine
The thing is, life of Brian isn't about Christianity at all. It's about some bloke who lived the same time as Jesus.

He happened to have been born on the same day, down the road from him. And he went to see his sermon on the mount. At no point in the film is Jesus insulted of mistreated.

Brian (spoiler alert.) may of ended up getting crucified. But in reality, that was a common enough death back in the day.

What 'life of brian' is about, is the foolishness of blind worship. There where load of 'messiah's' back in the day. But Jesus, being the frontrunner, is the only one that has risen to the prominence he has.

The 'life of brian' is about not putting blind faith in others. Not letting other people tell you what to do. And, I suspect, a much more dangerous message to the church then 'having a go' a Christ....
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Old 28-08-2015, 08:34 AM   #54
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Insulting Jews, Antisemitism.
Insulting Homosexuals, Homophobia.
Insulting Blacks, Racism.
Insulting Muslims, Freedom of Expression...

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Atheism
The belief there was once absolutely nothing. And nothing happened to the nothing until the nothing magically exploded (for no reason), creating everything and everywhere. Then a bunch of the exploded everything magically rearranged itself (for no reason whatsoever), into self-replicating bits which eventually turned into dinosaurs.

And they mock your beliefs.
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Old 28-08-2015, 10:56 PM   #55
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Unhappy halloween,christmas and easter

The hijacked holidays do that every year in the US not to mention the movies.
I would not join the mockeries in any case. Just do not go there.
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Old 28-08-2015, 11:13 PM   #56
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The hijacked holidays do that every year in the US not to mention the movies.
I would not join the mockeries in any case. Just do not go there.
Welcome back monay.
I enjoy your posts
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Old 29-08-2015, 12:24 AM   #57
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Welcome back monay.
I enjoy your posts
twilight_sparkle,

Thank you. I enjoy your posts as well. I got lost in Chinese history.

I seriously do encounter guff from various sides about religion. They want to fight so it is better not to give them that.

My last encounter was with a puffed up Hindu. He was trying everything he knew to get to me and I just did not give him the energy to strike. I felt like a cobra after twenty minutes. Then his friend drove up and he left.

There is spiritual energy to this. Never let them get to you like sword fighting.
Stay on guard but never over commit.
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