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Old 12-02-2009, 09:33 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by hell operator View Post
...i WILL find a way to get out of this and i WILL succeed because what I'M doing is right.....hefty words delivered with some kind of emotive volume technique...cue trained seal audience who suddenly clap all at the same time...

What are we witnessing here? What does the volume of the words mean? Why is everybody clapping?
He's a English man who has took the time' to dig deep and find out THE WAY WE ARE ALL BEING CONNED. and has the balls to get-up on stage and tell people about it... and that' in my book deserves admiration. We aint as Stiff' as you lot in Hong Kong. SSTFU
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Old 12-02-2009, 10:50 AM   #22
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Thanks to John Harris (and Dondaz) I now realise that I am the change that I believe in.

I think we still need our heroes , someone to focus on so that we can unite as we make our stand for what is right and good.

John Harris is my kind of hero

I vote for this to be a prominent sticky , please give this brilliant info the exposure it deserves!
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Old 12-02-2009, 10:52 AM   #23
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Yeh..excellent stuff, they're trying to cram us all into a box (a false paradigm) but they will never be able to put the lid on it!! because they have underestimated by a long shot how many people will wake up to the NWO/corporate takeover of our liberties.

A few pics here just for a giggle..



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Old 12-02-2009, 10:56 AM   #24
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Cool something to watch tonight - cheers Dondaz!
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:00 AM   #25
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Sounds like more patriot mythology to me.
Some people where just made to keep taking the blue pill.
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:52 AM   #26
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So anyway the million dollar question is..how are we going to un-register ourselfs or nullify the corporate powers seemingly given to them by us through being registered? Sacrifice the 'person' as John puts it.

Last edited by Firewand; 12-02-2009 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 12-02-2009, 12:24 PM   #27
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Sounds like more patriot mythology to me.
... and how's that working for you?

Your post sounds like more disinfo bullshit to me ... and if you ask, thats working great for me


.
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It [...] maintains that God, the State, and society are non-existent, that their promises are null and void, since they can be fulfilled only through man's subordination.


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Old 12-02-2009, 01:41 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by yozhik View Post
... and how's that working for you?

Your post sounds like more disinfo bullshit to me ... and if you ask, thats working great for me


.
Im sorry but its just like the IRS stuff in america and people claiming you can declare yourself sovereign.
You cant, you just go to jail.

I just want to save people the trouble of believing this stuff because it will do them no good and possibly even get them into legal trouble.
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Old 12-02-2009, 02:08 PM   #29
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Im sorry but its just like the IRS stuff in america and people claiming you can declare yourself sovereign.
You cant, you just go to jail.

I just want to save people the trouble of believing this stuff because it will do them no good and possibly even get them into legal trouble.
mate, you are clearly not informed enough on these things to form an opinion. What stuff is it you want people not to believe? State what isn't true, put forward your case and it will be open for debate, then you may have a point. What is it that you don't believe about 'this stuff' as you put it?

Don't take this as a put down, it's not. I'm confident 'this stuff' is real and true and willing to debate on the issues. Bring them forth!

Thanks!

Quote:
So anyway the million dollar question is..how are we going to un-register ourselfs or nullify the corporate powers seemingly given to them by us through being registered? Sacrifice the 'person' as John puts it.
Winston Shrout talks about 'not' burying/destroying your bond in one of his vids. I can't find the link right now, but I would suggest this is how to de-value that bond and thus making the BC of no value. I've not looked into this much but I'll dig out the details and start a thread on it in the Freeman section. Lest someone knows how to do this already and posts it here!
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Last edited by dondaz; 12-02-2009 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 12-02-2009, 02:25 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by whatistruth View Post
Im sorry but its just like the IRS stuff in america and people claiming you can declare yourself sovereign.
You cant, you just go to jail.

I just want to save people the trouble of believing this stuff because it will do them no good and possibly even get them into legal trouble.
HUGE difference between "legal trouble" and "lawful trouble".
Please, do some research to comprehend the significant difference.

Let me ask you a hypothetical question;
If a company, registered with the SEC, operating and trading for profit, publishes it's copyrighted, commercially available, company policy; are you obligated to follow and obey the rules, regulations and penalties laid out in the policy documents of that company?

The truth lies in your answer.

Peace and respect.


.
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Anarchism stands for liberation of the human mind from the dominion of religion; the liberation of the human body from the dominion of property; liberation from shackles and restraint of government. It stands for social order based on the free grouping of individuals.
It [...] maintains that God, the State, and society are non-existent, that their promises are null and void, since they can be fulfilled only through man's subordination.


- Emma Goldman

Last edited by yozhik; 12-02-2009 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 12-02-2009, 02:27 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by dondaz View Post
Winston Shrout talks about 'not' burying/destroying your bond in one of his vids. I can't find the link right now, but I would suggest this is how to de-value that bond and thus making the BC of no value. I've not looked into this much but I'll dig out the details and start a thread on it in the Freeman section. Lest someone knows how to do this already and posts it here!
I've also read of the option to "collapse the trust".
More research is required on this ...


.
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Anarchism stands for liberation of the human mind from the dominion of religion; the liberation of the human body from the dominion of property; liberation from shackles and restraint of government. It stands for social order based on the free grouping of individuals.
It [...] maintains that God, the State, and society are non-existent, that their promises are null and void, since they can be fulfilled only through man's subordination.


- Emma Goldman
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Old 12-02-2009, 02:36 PM   #32
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Im sorry but its just like the IRS stuff in america and people claiming you can declare yourself sovereign.
You cant, you just go to jail.

I just want to save people the trouble of believing this stuff because it will do them no good and possibly even get them into legal trouble.
And you think we are not in a lot of trouble allready! we are all in a lot of trouble whether you believe in the freeman philosophy or not..soon it will be impossible to not break the ''law'' just by simply existing..so unless you intend to be boxed and chipped so to speak you are also going to be 'legally' in a lot of trouble!
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Old 12-02-2009, 03:15 PM   #33
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Absolute dynamite - well worth watching, it explains things very clearly.

Many thanks for posting.
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Old 12-02-2009, 06:53 PM   #34
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I've also read of the option to "collapse the trust".
More research is required on this ...
That's what it is, 'collapsing the trust'. Cheers Yoz. Apparently, there's a fews ways it can be done!

Quote:
Absolute dynamite - well worth watching, it explains things very clearly.
Doesn't it just. Tptb are not going to like this, but it's tough because it's out now and I'm going to burn it to dvd and get them passed around! A good idea if everyone did this too!
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Old 12-02-2009, 07:36 PM   #35
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Darryl84:
Quote:
Im having a problem finding a definition that states a person is not a human being though, and is only a character if the man or woman chooses to accept it.
Darryl, when you were born, you were not born a 'person', but as a 'human being'...that is your natural condition and sovereignty. Your parents may have decided prior to your birth what they were going to name you. So, Darryl (surname) applies to the human being. What does not apply to you as a human being is 'mister', 'master', or 'esquire', as these are titles of status. Human being is not a status, but a condition of existence.

When your parents named you, a common law (I believe) stated that you had to be registered, and so you are given a birth certificate, on which relevant details are applied that record details applicable to you as a human being. However, what the birth certificate does is to add 'status' to your condition as a human being, thus you then enter society as a 'person', where not only natural and common law prevail upon you, but also, societal statutes...which are quite distinct from natural and common law, because societal statutes are contractual agreements. For societal statutes to apply to you, you must first consent to subject yourself to them, and you can only do this as a 'person', not as a human being...certainly not just after birth, because you haven't learned to talk and reason things out yet. How do you know (just after birth) what is agreeable in the statements of a statute, and thus make a 'informed' consent to them? Obviously, you don't, can't know.

You cannot live in any form of society as a human being, you must be a 'person' to do that, and equally you must consent to the statutes of that society. Your parents, from your birth to an age when you begin to reason and understand, guide you on your behalf in the basic understandings of natural and common law, with sprinklings of societal statutes thrown in. Even they did (or do) not fully appreciate the distinctions between natural and common law and societal statutes, that the former are applicable to you as a human being, but that the latter is only applicable to you as a person.

I remember, just prior to leaving school, receiving my 'National Insurance Number' (NIN), perhaps it was the same for you? This meant that society deemed that I was of an age where I could represent myself as a 'person', and be reviewed by my peers on my actions, without any recourse to criticism of my parents. They could not be blamed for anything I did against society from thereon, but only be considered as a 'past' influence.

Why is there a distinction between 'human being' and 'person'? Simply because a human being exists in natural reality, whereas a person only exists as a concept in society, because society is itself a concept...an 'idea' of abiding (consenting) to certain principles. Society cannot act against a human being without breaking natural and common law, but it can act through statutes against the 'person', but it must fulfill common law to do this, because of the way it affixes the personage (ie, status) of 'person' to human being, otherwise it is illegal. This opens up many cans of worms of implications. This is my understanding of the situation. Members are free to correct me in my errors.

Best wishes
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Old 12-02-2009, 08:26 PM   #36
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Tptb are not going to like this, but it's tough because it's out now and I'm going to burn it to dvd and get them passed around! A good idea if everyone did this too!
FANTASTIC idea .... just been given 25 cdr's by a friend who didn't need them, and didn't think I would need them either .... but this is a great idea for them!!

Burning this onto each of them as I type .... into the post to some friends in the morning .... I'm also going to pop down to my local friends work office and strategically leave some in some pigeon holes!
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Old 12-02-2009, 09:27 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by arten View Post
What we wittnesed was a Man a Human Being who wants to break free from the very chains you rever.

What I witnessed was a guy with a one dimensional message delivered in almost a 'rah rah' style....complete with emotive call to arms type tones and the usual jokey jokes that any moron could understand...stupid jokes like (not that this was one of the jokes) stuff about 'the missus'...I mean this kind of 'lets all sit in a room and listen to someone blow off our steam and clap like monkeys when we hear a certain tone in his voice or when we hear the volume go up or when we hear stuff like "we're not gonna take it no more"...that kind of crap. He's obviously preaching to the converted...so it's like a big group grope love in let's allput our hands in each other's pockets and wakl down the street together united! It's rah rah stuff...it's kids stuff. Is he helping people to learn? I don't think so.
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Old 12-02-2009, 09:29 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by elysiumfire View Post
Darryl84:

Darryl, when you were born, you were not born a 'person', but as a 'human being'...that is your natural condition and sovereignty. Your parents may have decided prior to your birth what they were going to name you. So, Darryl (surname) applies to the human being. What does not apply to you as a human being is 'mister', 'master', or 'esquire', as these are titles of status. Human being is not a status, but a condition of existence.

When your parents named you, a common law (I believe) stated that you had to be registered, and so you are given a birth certificate, on which relevant details are applied that record details applicable to you as a human being. However, what the birth certificate does is to add 'status' to your condition as a human being, thus you then enter society as a 'person', where not only natural and common law prevail upon you, but also, societal statutes...which are quite distinct from natural and common law, because societal statutes are contractual agreements. For societal statutes to apply to you, you must first consent to subject yourself to them, and you can only do this as a 'person', not as a human being...certainly not just after birth, because you haven't learned to talk and reason things out yet. How do you know (just after birth) what is agreeable in the statements of a statute, and thus make a 'informed' consent to them? Obviously, you don't, can't know.

You cannot live in any form of society as a human being, you must be a 'person' to do that, and equally you must consent to the statutes of that society. Your parents, from your birth to an age when you begin to reason and understand, guide you on your behalf in the basic understandings of natural and common law, with sprinklings of societal statutes thrown in. Even they did (or do) not fully appreciate the distinctions between natural and common law and societal statutes, that the former are applicable to you as a human being, but that the latter is only applicable to you as a person.

I remember, just prior to leaving school, receiving my 'National Insurance Number' (NIN), perhaps it was the same for you? This meant that society deemed that I was of an age where I could represent myself as a 'person', and be reviewed by my peers on my actions, without any recourse to criticism of my parents. They could not be blamed for anything I did against society from thereon, but only be considered as a 'past' influence.

Why is there a distinction between 'human being' and 'person'? Simply because a human being exists in natural reality, whereas a person only exists as a concept in society, because society is itself a concept...an 'idea' of abiding (consenting) to certain principles. Society cannot act against a human being without breaking natural and common law, but it can act through statutes against the 'person', but it must fulfill common law to do this, because of the way it affixes the personage (ie, status) of 'person' to human being, otherwise it is illegal. This opens up many cans of worms of implications. This is my understanding of the situation. Members are free to correct me in my errors.

Best wishes

Thank you for taking time to present information. I understand the concepts of freeman-on-the-land, however, i am trying to find all the official sources that support those concepts. I.e, the specific laws in common and natural law that highlight the supra lawfully, because, as i understand the terminologies, a human being is still subject to common and natural law.
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:08 PM   #39
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Thanks to John and Dondaz this is great stuff!
I like John Harris' infectious and passionate speeches however I feel that he is not a naturally gifted communicator and the emotion behind his words clouds the issue a little. Thats not a knock John - we need you and I admire you for doing this.

Basically there is one central fact in what he is saying that is all powerful:
We are humans - men or women - not persons. We only assume the persona by consenting to do so.

He presents some other interesting facts about legalese and the corporate nature of the country and government too which is interesting, however these make the subject appear more complicated than needs be.

The issue that needs to be more clearly explained, developed and focused on here is the 'adoption' of the persona, and how it may or may not be enforced upon us. I bleieve that in theory - even though we have been given a statutory personality at birth - we can differentiate between ourselves as men or women and that persona at any given time, e.g......

Police officer: 'what is your name?'
Man or woman: 'The name of the person is blah blah, but that is not me I am a man/woman'

We can further disassociate ourselves with the person by not declaring our residence at a registered address - thereby not giving them a cross reference (this point is touched on by John).

I believe that this central tennet of his talk needs to be made easier for people to relate to day to day situations e.g. If I say to the tax man 'no I wont pay tax because I'm a man and not the person whom you are giving notice to pay' will I be locked up? Can they not touch me if I make this declaration? What beneficial rights in society could I possibly be rescinding?

I first heard about this through a brilliant post where man got off of paying a speeding fine here is the link to the actual correspondence:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...7#post17457187 I think this may be on tpuc website also.

Would this work if my house was being repossesed?
What wording should I use to refuse paying my council tax, make baliffs go away etc etc?

We need to hear some scenarios, read the legalese that we can fight them back with. I hear what you are saying Yohzik in your signature - we need to study the law in order to free ourselves from it, but the reality is (and how tptb mean't it to be) few of us have time to study it. We need people like John to disseminate - he does a great job - but we need more, facts, ammo, we need to be sure of how to conduct ourselves at the moment of enforcement/submission. Cos fo sho they trying to screw us!
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Old 13-02-2009, 12:15 AM   #40
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What I witnessed was a guy with a one dimensional message delivered in almost a 'rah rah' style....complete with emotive call to arms type tones and the usual jokey jokes that any moron could understand...stupid jokes like (not that this was one of the jokes) stuff about 'the missus'...I mean this kind of 'lets all sit in a room and listen to someone blow off our steam and clap like monkeys when we hear a certain tone in his voice or when we hear the volume go up or when we hear stuff like "we're not gonna take it no more"...that kind of crap. He's obviously preaching to the converted...so it's like a big group grope love in let's allput our hands in each other's pockets and wakl down the street together united! It's rah rah stuff...it's kids stuff. Is he helping people to learn? I don't think so.
Would you have taken him more seriously if he was wearing a tie?
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