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Old 02-06-2016, 01:42 AM   #1281
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Don't see how that means Charlotte's Web doesn't work until it's proven in trials. That's plainly a fallacy. Your entire ontological framework is busted. If it is working in people today before trials then it will work tomorrow when the trials are done. No difference due to the trials lol! It's just the government will look stupid/evil for not allowing trials already.
Why would you assume it works when there is no good evidence it does?.

People take much more readily to stories than they do to statistics. It's more tangible to them, to hear of some person who was in a complete mess with their illness, and then took one simple miracle drug/treatment, then was perfectly all right after. It seems when there are two or more stories (anecdotal evidence) then it doesn't need something to be common. Unfortunately people see the 2 out of 2, and get the impression of a high success rate. The many hundreds, thousands or millions of people who didn't get well don't usually tell their side of the story, and aren't taken into account. Nor are many other factors either. It's kind of sad, because numbers tell the actual truth. You can't learn much about medicine from individual cases, it's all about people in general. Greater numbers give more accuracy. But because people don't understand maths so well, they don't respect it. The ZioPharm Phase I trial in a small group of patients looked good and then it crashed in a larger Phase II study and this is the same for many drugs.

Even if a drug is shown to work via trials it's extremely rare it will work for 100% of patients and even in those it does work for then the efficacy may be small when compared to what's already approved.

Here is a good poster showing why we need trial data http://www.viralytics.com/wp-content...R-CALM-ext.pdf If the doctors hadn't have done pre and post injection biopsies then most would assume the drug (Coxsackievirus A21) isn't working. However in those patients that are progressing then the reasons are because of the lake of immune cell infiltration and in patient 12-010 a huge upregulation (increase) of PDL-1.
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Why is it that the loudest critics of ''Big Pharma'' are Big Placebo?
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Old 02-06-2016, 01:59 AM   #1282
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But if you can't get the data because the gov doesn't allow it then that is the problem. It's not somehow the medicine's fault. I want trials too. You act like I don't because I'm not going to extraordinary lengths to raise funding. That's a fallacy too. It's a totally unreasonable demand. It's like you are reading from the Playbook of Fallacies (Dirty Tricks in Argumentation And How To Use Them.)
No government is stopping anything. There are plenty of countries that these trials could be conducted in

In the next few (up to 2) years trials using high THC, equal ratios of THC:CBD and high CBD for chronic pain will be undertaken by Clear-UK


So if people really wanted to show the oil worked then they would file the proper paperwork and then get the ball rolling.
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Why is it that the loudest critics of ''Big Pharma'' are Big Placebo?

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Old 02-06-2016, 02:00 AM   #1283
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Why would you assume it works when there is no good evidence it does?.

People take much more readily to stories than they do to statistics. It's more tangible to them, to hear of some person who was in a complete mess with their illness, and then took one simple miracle drug/treatment, then was perfectly all right after. It seems when there are two or more stories (anecdotal evidence) then it doesn't need something to be common. Unfortunately people see the 2 out of 2, and get the impression of a high success rate. The many hundreds, thousands or millions of people who didn't get well don't usually tell their side of the story, and aren't taken into account. Nor are many other factors either. It's kind of sad, because numbers tell the actual truth. You can't learn much about medicine from individual cases, it's all about people in general. Greater numbers give more accuracy. But because people don't understand maths so well, they don't respect it. The ZioPharm Phase I trial in a small group of patients looked good and then it crashed in a larger Phase II study and this is the same for many drugs.

Even if a drug is shown to work via trials it's extremely rare it will work for 100% of patients and even in those it does work for then the efficacy may be small when compared to what's already approved.

Here is a good poster showing why we need trial data http://www.viralytics.com/wp-content...R-CALM-ext.pdf If the doctors hadn't have done pre and post injection biopsies then most would assume the drug (Coxsackievirus A21) isn't working. However in those patients that are progressing then the reasons are because of the lake of immune cell infiltration and in patient 12-010 a huge upregulation (increase) of PDL-1.
Because it's working for so many people. You are a fool to discount everyone who is having success with RSO. The true statistics would show this. Why are you harping on why we need trials when I have said repeatedly...we need trials. It's almost like you are trying to insinuate a strawman fallacy that I don't think research is crucial? I'm calling for it more than you. You think "it won't happen" because "there is not much promise." That's ignorant and you would get embarrassed in front of the top researchers saying that.

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Old 03-06-2016, 09:42 AM   #1284
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No government is stopping anything. There are plenty of countries that these trials could be conducted in

In the next few (up to 2) years trials using high THC, equal ratios of THC:CBD and high CBD for chronic pain will be undertaken by Clear-UK


So if people really wanted to show the oil worked then they would file the proper paperwork and then get the ball rolling.
You can't respond to the reports I posted detailing exactly how Cannabis sativa research is suppressed. You only repeat your weak opinion. I'm glad research is beginning in the UK but there should be a mountain of human research by now. You can file all you want but unless for some reason you are the lucky one or two or three in the whole world you are damned to research purgatory. I don't think these companies would even exist if not for the medical marijuana movement. We are the ones who have brought pressure on the lawmakers. We changed the climate from one of "absolutely not" to "we'll see what we can do." We "show the oil works" by making it for our patients and getting results. You act like that isn't a legitimate mode of existence on this planet. I think trials are needed. Many, many of them. I don't base my perception of reality on what the governments of the world deem fit or unfit for clinical trials. I'm making a prediction RSO will be shown to be effective. That is based on cannabinoid action in pre-clinical models of human cancers and the many apparent successes people are having with RSO. You've never met patients and caregivers with patients whose tumors pulled a disappearing act with RSO. I have.

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Old 06-06-2016, 04:11 AM   #1285
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Because it's working for so many people. You are a fool to discount everyone who is having success with RSO. The true statistics would show this. Why are you harping on why we need trials when I have said repeatedly...we need trials. It's almost like you are trying to insinuate a strawman fallacy that I don't think research is crucial? I'm calling for it more than you. You think "it won't happen" because "there is not much promise." That's ignorant and you would get embarrassed in front of the top researchers saying that.
One major problem is the accumulation of positive anecdotes that can turn people into true believers (those that accept that just because something once seemed to work for someone then it will work for everyone, everywhere, every time!), even when the evidence says otherwise. The reasons why we believe these anecdotes, despite the science and evidence otherwise, have been detailed at length in other posts on a certain site https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org...is-not-enough/ Leaving some of the obvious issues aside https://forum.davidicke.com/showpost...postcount=1002 another problem is that anecdotes are usually not complete. They often cover only the period of the improvement, and anything happening after the publication of the anecdote is not included. The case of Sharon Kelly http://www.cureyourowncancer.org/the...nabis-oil.html springs to mind



If you take into account all the websites, Youtube video's, social media, forums and so on then it may appear to be working for so many people. However all these have yet to be translated to case reports in the literature. I'm not a fool to discount everyone who is having apparent success with RSO/FECO it's just I want actual evidence to show it. So if hundreds of case reports and a number of case series where added to the literature showing something then I wouldn't discount these. As for reliable statistics then these can only come from well designed and conducted Phase I-III trials and enough positive case reports/case series could be grounds to possibly get some trials funded.
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Why is it that the loudest critics of ''Big Pharma'' are Big Placebo?

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Old 06-06-2016, 07:46 AM   #1286
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"Possibly get some trials funded..." How dismissive and blasé. You're a joke, dumb. For some reason you go to extraordinary lengths all over the web attempting to make Cannabis sativa look less amazing than it is. Patients routinely keep their use from their doctor's knowledge. Many doctors refuse to treat Cannabis-using patients even if they are licensed by the state. Others merely disapprove or take a neutral stance. The cool doctor is the exception.

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Old 06-06-2016, 09:25 AM   #1287
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Because it's working for so many people. You are a fool to discount everyone who is having success with RSO. The true statistics would show this. Why are you harping on why we need trials when I have said repeatedly...we need trials. It's almost like you are trying to insinuate a strawman fallacy that I don't think research is crucial? I'm calling for it more than you. You think "it won't happen" because "there is not much promise." That's ignorant and you would get embarrassed in front of the top researchers saying that.
The truth is the research has already been done, 40 years ago ! The US government has known for 40 years about the tremendous health benefits of medical Cannabis. Not only from Cancer(but that is the golden one) but from a whole host of other ailments and diseases. The research won't happen overtly because it has been done covertly. And TPTSNB will look like total scumbags to a phenomenal amount of people.

Cannabis alone could and probably would bring the control system down if the truth was made a matter of public record, same goes for Industrial hemp, with over 25k uses ! No need to be slaughtering our forests the very lungs of the planet.

But the Rockefeller medical mafia will fight tooth and nail to keep it out of sight, playing for time and hoping to dumb folks down over time.

It's not going to work.

Cannabis/Hemp is a divine gift that has always been the case, nothing will change that.
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Old 06-06-2016, 11:35 AM   #1288
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The truth is the research has already been done, 40 years ago ! The US government has known for 40 years about the tremendous health benefits of medical Cannabis. Not only from Cancer(but that is the golden one) but from a whole host of other ailments and diseases. The research won't happen overtly because it has been done covertly. And TPTSNB will look like total scumbags to a phenomenal amount of people.

Cannabis alone could and probably would bring the control system down if the truth was made a matter of public record, same goes for Industrial hemp, with over 25k uses ! No need to be slaughtering our forests the very lungs of the planet.

But the Rockefeller medical mafia will fight tooth and nail to keep it out of sight, playing for time and hoping to dumb folks down over time.

It's not going to work.

Cannabis/Hemp is a divine gift that has always been the case, nothing will change that.

I blame the government primarily. How can there be an extraordinarily safe and promising agent in clinical models of cancer that gets shelved when it comes to meaningful academic research on humans? It's insane. The companies would have loved to be able to market Cannabis medicine as they did before prohibition.

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Old 06-06-2016, 04:13 PM   #1289
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Yes, they have screwed up so bad with it that when people find out in the mainstream(I am sure this will occur) the backlash will be vicious. All that suffering, for what ?

Greedy bastards.
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Old 08-06-2016, 12:38 AM   #1290
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I blame the government primarily. How can there be an extraordinarily safe and promising agent in clinical models of cancer that gets shelved when it comes to meaningful academic research on humans? It's insane. The companies would have loved to be able to market Cannabis medicine as they did before prohibition.
Maybe you can cite some of the preclinical (in vivo) studies that show something more that just a growth delay?.
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Why is it that the loudest critics of ''Big Pharma'' are Big Placebo?

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Old 08-06-2016, 12:53 AM   #1291
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The truth is the research has already been done, 40 years ago ! The US government has known for 40 years about the tremendous health benefits of medical Cannabis. Not only from Cancer(but that is the golden one) but from a whole host of other ailments and diseases. The research won't happen overtly because it has been done covertly. And TPTSNB will look like total scumbags to a phenomenal amount of people.

Cannabis alone could and probably would bring the control system down if the truth was made a matter of public record, same goes for Industrial hemp, with over 25k uses ! No need to be slaughtering our forests the very lungs of the planet.

But the Rockefeller medical mafia will fight tooth and nail to keep it out of sight, playing for time and hoping to dumb folks down over time.

It's not going to work.

Cannabis/Hemp is a divine gift that has always been the case, nothing will change that.
Don't be taken in by memes such as these



Dealing with the picture on the left then this states 60 grams is enough to cure a disease "such as cancer". Each syringe is stated to hold 10 grams. The amount pictured is stated to be enough to treat cancer. There are seven syringes, equalling 70 grams. Whoever made this image can't even count. Recommended by whom?. "Dis-ease" - that's not how words work, unless http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/20...he-difference/ As for the 60 or 70 grams of cannabis oil which they claim is enough to treat one patient - of which cancer in particular and at what stage of the illness?. Over what time frame?. What are the response rates?. What are the 1, 5 and 10 year survivals?.

As for the text on the right. Then here is the study they cite http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/conte....full.pdf+html which was done in mice in the 70s and didn't show the cures they claim. I love how they say the study was then classified but an FOI request many years later somehow declassified it. They also make a number of other claims which aren't backed up by any good evidence either.

Dr. Abrams MD states: "Internet testimonials abound from patients claiming to have cured their cancer by using highly concentrated oil extractions of cannabis, enriched for THC, CBD, or both. These reports have generated an interest in some patients to forego conventional cancer therapies and to treat their cancer with cannabis oil alone. This is a distressing situation, especially when faced with a patient with a potentially curable malignancy who chooses to go down this alternative pathway. As yet, there have been no clinical trials investigating highly concentrated cannabis products as anticancer agents, so patients must be reminded that what is observed in the test tube or animal models does not necessarily translate into benefit in humans." http://www.cancernetwork.com/oncolog...ology-practice
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Why is it that the loudest critics of ''Big Pharma'' are Big Placebo?

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Old 08-06-2016, 01:52 AM   #1292
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Maybe you can cite some of the studies that show something more that just a growth delay?.
Hey, slowing tumor growth is a big deal. Guzman mentioned some of his mice became tumor-free. Don't have the time to look it up right now.

Edit: (decreased tumor size - very easy to find) http://herb.com/guzman.pdf

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Table 2 | Tumours that are sensitive to cannabinoid-induced growth inhibition
Tumour type Experimental system Effect Receptor References
Lung carcinoma In vivo (mouse); Decreased tumour size; N.D. 29
in vitro cell-growth inhibition
Glioma In vivo (mouse, rat); Decreased tumour size; CB1, CB2 50,51,53,85
in vitro apoptosis
Thyroid epithelioma In vivo (mouse); Decreased tumour size; CB1 60
in vitro cell-cycle arrest
Lymphoma/leukaemia In vivo (mouse); Decreased tumour size; CB2 96
in vitro apoptosis
Skin carcinoma In vivo (mouse); Decreased tumour size; CB1, CB2 61
in vitro apoptosis
Uterus carcinoma In vitro Cell-growth inhibition N.D. 97,98
Breast carcinoma In vitro Cell-cycle arrest CB1 57–59
Prostate carcinoma In vitro Apoptosis CB1? 54,59,99
Neuroblastoma In vitro Apoptosis VR1 51,73

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Old 08-06-2016, 10:11 PM   #1293
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Maybe you can cite some of the preclinical studies that show something more that just a growth delay?.
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Lol, what's up?

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Old 10-06-2016, 07:23 PM   #1294
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I have to say, I'm convinced by the cannabis argument. Especially when you speak to people who've successfully used it. Keep up the good work, guys. Nothing to lose really.

If you're gonna die, you're gonna die. You'd have to be pretty psychopathic to deny people the opportunity to try a non-toxic alternative.
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Old 10-06-2016, 07:44 PM   #1295
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Lol, what's up?
Nothing. I haven't had time to read some of the citations in the PDF yet as I've been doing other things
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Why is it that the loudest critics of ''Big Pharma'' are Big Placebo?

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Old 10-06-2016, 07:49 PM   #1296
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Nothing. I haven't had time to read some of the citations in the PDF yet
It always takes you a looong time to get around to it when you are wrong. I'm always ready. It's just bam! bam! bam!
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Old 10-06-2016, 07:53 PM   #1297
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I have to say, I'm convinced by the cannabis argument. Especially when you speak to people who've successfully used it. Keep up the good work, guys. Nothing to lose really.

If you're gonna die, you're gonna die. You'd have to be pretty psychopathic to deny people the opportunity to try a non-toxic alternative.
How many times does it need to be said that the plural of anecdote isn't data https://forum.davidicke.com/showpost...postcount=1002 https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org...is-not-enough/

Nobody is denying anyone the opportunity to try this. However there are genuine trials out there that have the potential to help terminal patients. There are better ''alternatives'' too https://forum.davidicke.com/showpost...&postcount=978 http://mbvax.com/index.php/mbvax-results/ http://www.pvanuden.com/2014/03/immu...erhaps_21.html
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Old 10-06-2016, 07:57 PM   #1298
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How many times does it need to be said that the plural of anecdote isn't data https://forum.davidicke.com/showpost...postcount=1002 https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org...is-not-enough/

Nobody is denying anyone the opportunity to try this. However there are genuine trials out there that have the potential to help terminal patients. There are better ''alternatives'' too https://forum.davidicke.com/showpost...&postcount=978 http://mbvax.com/index.php/mbvax-results/ http://www.pvanuden.com/2014/03/immu...erhaps_21.html
That's so tired. Just don't say it any more. The anecdotes are supported by pre-clinical research as has been shown.
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Old 10-06-2016, 08:03 PM   #1299
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Whatever, Dumb. I don't buy your counter-argument. You think I can't read? I've perused this thread.

Sometimes the truth is right there. You don't need clinical trials for everything. If something works, it works. Regardless of what technical language you use to dismiss it.

Keep repeating yourself. That's your prerogative. But you're not convincing me. And you're not convincing the people it's helped.

If you're reading this and thinking of trying this therapy, go for it. And try the other alternatives as well. Definitely better than poisoning yourself with chemo or radiation. I mean, do you really want to live for another ten years with a thickened pericardium that goes tamponade and causes effusion to build up in your lungs; that scars your heart and other organs? Because these are the risks you take when you try some conventional methods.

I sincerely hope you live a long and happy life.

Take care.

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Old 10-06-2016, 08:07 PM   #1300
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Whatever, Dumb. I don't buy your counter-argument. You think I can't read? I've perused this thread.

Sometimes the truth is right there. You don't need clinical trials for everything. If something works, it works. Regardless of what technical language you use to dismiss it.

Keep repeating yourself. That's your prerogative. But you're not convincing me. And you're not convincing the people it's helped.

If you're reading this and thinking of trying this therapy, go for it. And try the other alternatives as well. Definitely better than poisoning yourself with chemo or radiation. I mean, do you really want to live for another ten years with a thickened pericardium that goes tamponade and causes effusion to build up in your lungs; that scars your heart and other organs? Because these are the risks you take when you try some conventional methods.

I sincerely hope you live a long and happy life.

Take care.
Well said. I love it!
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