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Old 06-08-2008, 06:07 PM   #41
element
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So.... will this cheap crossbow suffice for now, to learn with, until I can afford a 'better' one.
It seems/feels pretty powerful to my untrained senses. I guess I need to get out and try to get a few rabbitts and the like to find out for sure (I know hunting with a crossbow is illegal. I won't tell if you don't ).
And .... thank you for the information as well the itinerant shrubber. I am on a severely limited budget and this is the one I have for now, so I will have to do. Next I am saving up for a decent knife, then a couple of cast iron pans... then .....
Or just practice non-violence. Or stick to ignorance.

Your choice.
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Old 06-08-2008, 07:40 PM   #42
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So.... will this cheap crossbow suffice for now, to learn with, until I can afford a 'better' one.
It seems/feels pretty powerful to my untrained senses. I guess I need to get out and try to get a few rabbitts and the like to find out for sure (I know hunting with a crossbow is illegal. I won't tell if you don't ).
And .... thank you for the information as well the itinerant shrubber. I am on a severely limited budget and this is the one I have for now, so I will have to do. Next I am saving up for a decent knife, then a couple of cast iron pans... then .....
It looks alright to me.As I've said,I've had pheasents with a pistol xbow and I could of got rabbits too so that one will easily do the job. You can catch rabbits with a bola if you're skilled enough. It's all about skill in hunting rather than the what you use.
How much is that in pounds or are you getting it from the states?

I can help you with a decent knife. I've bought loads of knives in my time and I've yet to find a knife to better this one at ten times the price.http://www.survivalschool.co.uk/acat..._and_Saws.html (bottom of the page) Get the carbon steel one.
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Old 06-08-2008, 08:10 PM   #43
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Or just practice non-violence. Or stick to ignorance.

Your choice.
That's right, it's my choice.
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Old 06-08-2008, 08:20 PM   #44
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It looks alright to me.As I've said,I've had pheasents with a pistol xbow and I could of got rabbits too so that one will easily do the job. You can catch rabbits with a bola if you're skilled enough. It's all about skill in hunting rather than the what you use.
How much is that in pounds or are you getting it from the states?

I can help you with a decent knife. I've bought loads of knives in my time and I've yet to find a knife to better this one at ten times the price.http://www.survivalschool.co.uk/acat..._and_Saws.html (bottom of the page) Get the carbon steel one.
Nice one man ... thank you very much for the knife link, I can afford that that's brilliant. The crossbow + a pack of 6 hunting bolts came to just over £130 from the states ..... I have the bow and bolts already .... I shot one bolt into some bushes, what seemed like miles away and it went straight through them and dissapeared about twice the distance away, I never did find it.

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Old 06-08-2008, 08:23 PM   #45
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It looks alright to me.As I've said,I've had pheasents with a pistol xbow and I could of got rabbits too so that one will easily do the job. You can catch rabbits with a bola if you're skilled enough. It's all about skill in hunting rather than the what you use.
How much is that in pounds or are you getting it from the states?

I can help you with a decent knife. I've bought loads of knives in my time and I've yet to find a knife to better this one at ten times the price.http://www.survivalschool.co.uk/acat..._and_Saws.html (bottom of the page) Get the carbon steel one.
It may look alright now for you, but I can only grasp at the consequences you will face later on. We attract what we are, and if you are killing stuff consciously without any reason to do so, or protect yourself, you're in for a bad ride.
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Old 06-08-2008, 08:27 PM   #46
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I have killed nothing yet, I am mearley trying to prepare for what I think is comming and that includes being able to provide (amongst other things) food for my family.
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Old 06-08-2008, 08:39 PM   #47
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I have killed nothing yet, I am mearley trying to prepare for what I think is comming and that includes being able to provide (amongst other things) food for my family.
I know, that wasn't toward you was it? I do not really understand this 'preparation'. What do you think will happen, will you be safe?

If shit is coming at us and we die, who gives a damn? It's part of this universe, disasters are bound to happen. I think a garden with some veggies/fruits/nuts is more useful and contains more stuff you need, and get a goat for the milk? Easier then a cow. Oh of course...!..... in a war this will be stolen, but hey your bow or gun won't be safe either. I can already see shit happening, people will only be brainwashed and use weapons themself in bad situations.

I can understand people hunt in the most bitter moments of time, but to practice kill animals is very lame, and people won't be getting away with it. lol, first sending peaceful energy to them, lure them to you and then kill? Abusing of energy, that's what it is. Some may love the native way, hopefully those will incarnate as african zulus or something. (not an insult)

(this is generally speaken None!)

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Old 06-08-2008, 08:57 PM   #48
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I know, that wasn't toward you was it? I do not really understand this 'preparation'. What do you think will happen, will you be safe?

If shit is coming at us and we die, who gives a damn? It's part of this universe, disasters are bound to happen. I think a garden with some veggies/fruits/nuts is more useful and contains more stuff you need, and get a goat for the milk? Easier then a cow. Oh of course...!..... in a war this will be stolen, but hey your bow or gun won't be safe either. I can already see shit happening, people will only be brainwashed and use weapons themself in bad situations.

I can understand people hunt in the most bitter moments of time, but to practice kill animals is very lame, and people won't be getting away with it. lol, first sending peaceful energy to them, lure them to you and then kill? Abusing of energy, that's what it is. Some may love the native way, hopefully those will incarnate as african zulus or something. (not an insult)

(this is generally speaken None!)
No it wasn't aimed at me, but I chose to reply to it anyway.
What I will kill, I will eat. What I kill will be a wild animal, not a farmed animal that has lived (in a great many instances) a miserable life.
I eat meat.
I am not a bad person.
I eat meat.
I am prepared to kill and prepare this meat myself.
I am not a bad person.
I will not take the easy option of eating shrink wrapped meat that it is difficult to link to a living breathing animal and has led at best an un-natural life and at worst has been factory farmed in a living hell, then slaughtered and dipped in sodium metabisulphite or phosphate to preserve it.
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:57 AM   #49
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..... I have the bow and bolts already .... I shot one bolt into some bushes, what seemed like miles away and it went straight through them and dissapeared about twice the distance away, I never did find it.
Targets Butts.

http://www.quicksarchery.co.uk/super...hp?category=59

I'm not recommending Quicks, just showing target butts.

I use a Superbutt type on a stand.
The superbutts can be left outside - the 'straw' ones cannot,
they will rot, and mice love to live in them.

Also the superbutts are easy to repair.
You dismantle, move the damaged layers to the top & bottom
of the butt, leaving good solid layers in the middle. re-assemble.

My crossbow puts a 17" bolt through a 14" butt, at 20 metres,
so that several inches stick out of the back.
The bolt has to be pushed back through the butt
so that the vane end can be grasped and pulled out.

If you hit somebody with a crossbow bolt,
it will probably go right through them!
So please, please, please use a target and butt
and make sure that there is a backstop
i.e. wall, or solid object behind the target,
or a lot of secured open space i.e. 150 metres
of private - nobody else can get in - space.
Safety curtains don't stop all arrows or bolts.
I use two curtains behind my targets, and still
get my shed - 1" thick solid planking - not feather edge
timber shed, hit occasionally.
From 30 metres, my crossbow will go through both
safety curtains and just stick through the 1" planking
2 metres behind the curtains.
The 70 lb bow penetrates the planks by about 2"
with wooden 125 grain field tipped arrows.
Misfires happen to everybody now and then!

Please think safety.
It is cheaper to damage your arrows/bolts
which can be repaired or replaced, than
to get involved with a coroners court!
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Old 07-08-2008, 10:25 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by element View Post
I know, that wasn't toward you was it? I do not really understand this 'preparation'. What do you think will happen, will you be safe?

If shit is coming at us and we die, who gives a damn? It's part of this universe, disasters are bound to happen. I think a garden with some veggies/fruits/nuts is more useful and contains more stuff you need, and get a goat for the milk? Easier then a cow. Oh of course...!..... in a war this will be stolen, but hey your bow or gun won't be safe either. I can already see shit happening, people will only be brainwashed and use weapons themself in bad situations.

I can understand people hunt in the most bitter moments of time, but to practice kill animals is very lame, and people won't be getting away with it. lol, first sending peaceful energy to them, lure them to you and then kill? Abusing of energy, that's what it is. Some may love the native way, hopefully those will incarnate as african zulus or something. (not an insult)

(this is generally speaken None!)
Guess what-we're all made of meat. We're a walking meal for something. One day you will die,something will kill you,probably on a microbial level and then you will be eaten.
In order for something to live,something has to die,even if it's a carrot. When I dispatch an animal,I do so in a manner that I hope I will die-quickly and relatively painlessly. I can only hope that whatever kills me is as merciful.


none - How easy was it to order from the states? There's loads of hunting and outdoor gear that I'd love from the states but I'm not sure about tax and what-not. That xbow would be about 250-300 quid over here so you managed to get a decent bow for a bargain. I thought you'd payed 150 for it over here. I want some of that action!
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Old 07-08-2008, 03:55 PM   #51
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Guess what-we're all made of meat. We're a walking meal for something. One day you will die,something will kill you,probably on a microbial level and then you will be eaten.
In order for something to live,something has to die,even if it's a carrot. When I dispatch an animal,I do so in a manner that I hope I will die-quickly and relatively painlessly. I can only hope that whatever kills me is as merciful.
I don't care if I will die really. You seem to have a very darwinian approach, while there is no need for it. Do you live alone in the desert or what? Comparing plants to animals is useless, as there is a vast difference in awareness. We are meant for plant food, otherwise you would have claws or short intestines. Don't kill that which is unnessesary to kill. There is no reason to kill, stop dreaming away with old fashioned stories.
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:09 PM   #52
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none - How easy was it to order from the states? There's loads of hunting and outdoor gear that I'd love from the states but I'm not sure about tax and what-not. That xbow would be about 250-300 quid over here so you managed to get a decent bow for a bargain. I thought you'd payed 150 for it over here. I want some of that action!
The wife got it for me (from the kids) for fathers day this year .... she bought it from the site I linked to in my post above and it took about 9 days to arrive. customs and excise didn't slap any charges on it. I have had a lot of stuff from the states (mainly CDs and band t-shirts and customs slap a charge on about 75% of it, but the crossbow came through no problem, so it cost about £130.
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Old 07-08-2008, 10:41 PM   #53
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Do forgive me if it has already been mentioned.

Having a gun in the UK is not hard to achive.

You could still join a club and quite easily own a monster of a killing machine.

If you had a problem with pests on your farm/small holding or field or woods that you own now, then you can take the thing home.

Therefore, if you wished you could have a gun at home in time for the tits-up scenario. I am not poo-pooing those that want to have a cross-bow, but I would prefer a gun if I had a choice.

A means to make your own rounds is easily attainable and as long as you have enough spare shot and stuff at home, then why not go for the gun?


Tom.
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Old 08-08-2008, 06:04 AM   #54
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Do forgive me if it has already been mentioned.

Having a gun in the UK is not hard to achive.

You could still join a club and quite easily own a monster of a killing machine.

If you had a problem with pests on your farm/small holding or field or woods that you own now, then you can take the thing home.

Therefore, if you wished you could have a gun at home in time for the tits-up scenario. I am not poo-pooing those that want to have a cross-bow, but I would prefer a gun if I had a choice.

A means to make your own rounds is easily attainable and as long as you have enough spare shot and stuff at home, then why not go for the gun?


Tom.
It is if you have a criminal record for violence.

If you have a licenced gun and the TPTB decide that it's time to tighten the screw, they will just take that gun away from you.

Last edited by none; 08-08-2008 at 06:40 AM.
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Old 08-08-2008, 08:47 AM   #55
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I don't care if I will die really. You seem to have a very darwinian approach, while there is no need for it. Do you live alone in the desert or what? Comparing plants to animals is useless, as there is a vast difference in awareness. We are meant for plant food, otherwise you would have claws or short intestines. Don't kill that which is unnessesary to kill. There is no reason to kill, stop dreaming away with old fashioned stories.
It doesnt matter if you do care about dieing.

Please explain what you would of personally worn for clothing after the last ice-age and where you would of got the essential fats from and why you as a westener are wiser than than our ancestors and all the other cultures on the planet who have eaten meat for the last 2.5 million years?
What are our canines for?-those same canines that other meat eating simians have?
We are omnivores.Our dental structure proves this. If we were herbivores we would have herbivorous teeth and the digestive tract to go with it.

How do you know how aware a vegetable is? Are you god?

It's thought by some that plants can also feel pain and anticipate damage http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...6213525AAZt1Kv
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagdish...Plant_research

What will you be eating now? Carrots that have lived a full and wholesome carroty life and have died a natural death? Or are your principles actually based one whether something is cute and furry becouse you are turning away from an aspect of life that doesnt fit in with your cozy view of how you think the world should be?

If you dont agree with meat eating (and I hope you're not wearing leather and drinking milk or wine) why are you in a discusion about hunting? We're not going to change our mind,especially if you cant come up with any rationale as to why we shouldnt eat meat.
When theres no more Sainsburys or health food shops,I'll be thinking of you as you tuck into your turnip and potato soup. How much of your body weight will you lose during a cold british winter before you start salivating at the smell of spit-roast pork I wonder.

If you dont agree with meat eating,you should make a thread about it using coherent arguments against it instead of spamming a hunting discussion with facile and ill-informed emotive comments.
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Old 08-08-2008, 10:41 AM   #56
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It doesnt matter if you do care about dieing.

Please explain what you would of personally worn for clothing after the last ice-age and where you would of got the essential fats from and why you as a westener are wiser than than our ancestors and all the other cultures on the planet who have eaten meat for the last 2.5 million years?
FFS, I always said if we had no other chance, then yes we can kill. But in these times there is no more need for it. Are you blind? Don't kill if it's unnessesary.

Quote:
What are our canines for?-those same canines that other meat eating simians have?
We are omnivores.Our dental structure proves this. If we were herbivores we would have herbivorous teeth and the digestive tract to go with it.
Long intestines, no claws. We can't eat it raw, it needs to be cleaned and cooked, and still it's much bacteria. Simians, lol. Here's another brainwashed evolutionist it seems?

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How do you know how aware a vegetable is? Are you god?
That's not my point. I'm saying animals have higher awareness. This can be easily seen, they are further developed. Do they want you to kill them? Look in their eyes, and say it again. That said, taking fruits do not kill trees, and vegetables are our foods, you want to let them rot away in vain?

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f you dont agree with meat eating (and I hope you're not wearing leather and drinking milk or wine) why are you in a discusion about hunting? We're not going to change our mind,especially if you cant come up with any rationale as to why we shouldnt eat meat.
When theres no more Sainsburys or health food shops,I'll be thinking of you as you tuck into your turnip and potato soup. How much of your body weight will you lose during a cold british winter before you start salivating at the smell of spit-roast pork I wonder.

If you dont agree with meat eating,you should make a thread about it using coherent arguments against it instead of spamming a hunting discussion with facile and ill-informed emotive comments.
I can post anywhere I like. I started here to point out it's lame to hunt animals for practice. It's fine if we are in the biggest trouble. You fail to see that, I said it before. These times it's not needed anymore. Got a brain error? If I have to repeat myself because you can't read, then maybe you bloodsucker should be ignored.
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Old 08-08-2008, 11:20 AM   #57
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FFS, I always said if we had no other chance, then yes we can kill. But in these times there is no more need for it. Are you blind? Don't kill if it's unnessesary.
It's neccesary to practice for when the time comes to hunt our own food.It's also better to hunt your own food than rely on farm animals that havnt had a life.


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Long intestines, no claws. We can't eat it raw, it needs to be cleaned and cooked, and still it's much bacteria. Simians, lol. Here's another brainwashed evolutionist it seems?
No claws and no teeth to cope with a purely vegetarian diet. Look at a deers teeth and then compare it with ours. Now compare a bears teeth with ours. Notice the similarities? We have a omnivorous anatomy.
We can eat raw meat.It's only recently that farmed meat has become so polluted that it's now necessary to cook it.
What does "simians LOL" mean? What was the point you were making there?

First you say we can eat meat if necessary but then say we're not designed for it. If we werent designed for it,we couldnt eat it . Try eating a load of grass and see how you get on. It'll make you sick becouse you're not meant to eat it. Eat meat and you'll be fine,THEREFORE we are designed to eat it. -QED

We dont have claws but we do have opposable thumbs and a highly developed brain of which a diet of meat is responsible for.


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That's not my point. I'm saying animals have higher awareness. This can be easily seen, they are further developed.
How can it be seen? By your personal perception of it?

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Do they want you to kill them? Look in their eyes, and say it again.
No they dont want us to kill them becouse they have a survival instinct thats in place to ensure the continuation of the species. I dont want to be eaten either but I will one day and so will you.How convinient for you that carrots dont have eyes for you to gaze into.

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That said, taking fruits do not kill trees, and vegetables are our foods, you want to let them rot away in vain?
By rotting away it means microbes will break it down and turn it into food for other organisms.Nothing is wasted. What about the links I posted? You're still killing something that may or may not have a conscience of sorts. Who are you to decide what is OK to kill and what isnt?


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I can post anywhere I like. I started here to point out it's lame to hunt animals for practice. It's fine if we are in the biggest trouble. You fail to see that, I said it before. These times it's not needed anymore. Got a brain error? If I have to repeat myself because you can't read, then maybe you bloodsucker should be ignored.
This thread is in the SURVIVAL section so we are discusing survival via hunting and the practice thereof. Making fire with a flint and steel isnt needed in these times either but one day those skills may be needed again so thats also discussed on this board. This is what the survival forum is for-preparation and practice for future survival;for when we are in "the biggest trouble". Do you see?
Please dont repeat yourself. Your personal oppinions on what should and shouldnt be killed is irrelevant to this topic and the fact that you have to resort to personal insults regarding my brain capacity,my literacy skills and calling me a "bloodsucker" illustrates exactly how much thought and reason you've put into your opinions.
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Old 08-08-2008, 11:41 AM   #58
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No claws and no teeth to cope with a purely vegetarian diet. Look at a deers teeth and then compare it with ours. Now compare a bears teeth with ours. Notice the similarities? We have a omnivorous anatomy.
We can eat raw meat.It's only recently that farmed meat has become so polluted that it's now necessary to cook it.
What does "simians LOL" mean? What was the point you were making there?
http://k43.pbase.com/g6/08/700508/2/...2.IjM0zShD.jpg
http://files.turbosquid.com/Preview/...4.jpgLarge.jpg

You eat raw meat? Good luck with it.

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First you say we can eat meat if necessary but then say we're not designed for it. If we werent designed for it,we couldnt eat it . Try eating a load of grass and see how you get on. It'll make you sick becouse you're not meant to eat it. Eat meat and you'll be fine,THEREFORE we are designed to eat it. -QED
I say we can eat meat when there is no other food available. When there is however, there is no reason to kill animals for food. Why don't you understand? I have to repeat myself over and over again it seems. So I can't eat grass, so I should eat meat??? More crap. Much logic you have.

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We dont have claws but we do have opposable thumbs and a highly developed brain of which a diet of meat is responsible for.
Hahah nice bullshitting here.

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How can it be seen? By your personal perception of it?
Why do you think there are so many varieties in species? Matter, plant, animal. Next thing you're saying a bacteria is the same as you in awareness!

Quote:
No they dont want us to kill them becouse they have a survival instinct thats in place to ensure the continuation of the species. I dont want to be eaten either but I will one day and so will you.How convinient for you that carrots dont have eyes for you to gaze into.
Good for you. Keep being obsessed with survival while forgetting your humility. Killing when it's not nessesary, what a hero you are.


Quote:
This thread is in the SURVIVAL section so we are discusing survival via hunting and the practice thereof. Making fire with a flint and steel isnt needed in these times either but one day those skills may be needed again so thats also discussed on this board. This is what the survival forum is for-preparation and practice for future survival;for when we are in "the biggest trouble". Do you see?
Please dont repeat yourself. Your personal oppinions on what should and shouldnt be killed is irrelevant to this topic and the fact that you have to resort to personal insults regarding my brain capacity,my literacy skills and calling me a "bloodsucker" illustrates exactly how much thought and reason you've put into your opinions.
Making a fire or killing an animal without reason. I suppose it's the same for you. I understand ''when you are in the biggest trouble''. But practice on something else, rather then kill now if it's not needed. I have to repeat myself, because your to stupid to read. If you feel insulted then that is so because your own inability to read. And yes, you are literally a bloodsucker. That's not insulting, but truth.

Last edited by element; 08-08-2008 at 11:45 AM.
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Old 08-08-2008, 01:11 PM   #59
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[QUOTE=element;450748]http://k43.pbase.com/g6/08/700508/2/...2.IjM0zShD.jpg
http://files.turbosquid.com/Preview/...4.jpgLarge.jpg

Quote:
You eat raw meat? Good luck with it.
Err...no...

Quote:
I say we can eat meat when there is no other food available. When there is however, there is no reason to kill animals for food. Why don't you understand? I have to repeat myself over and over again it seems. So I can't eat grass, so I should eat meat??? More crap. Much logic you have.
Becouse as I have already explained,we need to practice so that we are able to hunt when it IS necessary for survival. Hence this discussion in the survival thread.
There is no reason to kill carrots for food either but plants like animals are part of the food chain so I am merely being part of that chain instead of imagining myself to be somehow morally superior to it like you do.




Quote:
Hahah nice bullshitting here.
Right... I guess you know more than all those anthropologists too.


Quote:
Why do you think there are so many varieties in species?
Evolution?

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Matter, plant, animal. Next thing you're saying a bacteria is the same as you in awareness!
I wouldnt know,I'm not a bacteria and who else besides you decided that the level of conciseness was a yardstick to decide what is eaten and what isnt?



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Good for you. Keep being obsessed with survival while forgetting your humility. Killing when it's not nessesary, what a hero you are.
And when you're starving and finally have to face up to killing an animal,how will you kill that bird for instance? Quickly and cleanly, or will your inexperience, due to your perverted sense of morality, cause it prolonged suffering?
According to you it's OK to cause suffering to animals when you really have to rather than to hunt and kill animals efficiently that would be hunted and killed by another creature eventually anyway and thereby taking your place in the natural order. Nice...

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Making a fire or killing an animal without reason. I suppose it's the same for you. I understand ''when you are in the biggest trouble''. But practice on something else, rather then kill now if it's not needed. I have to repeat myself, because your to stupid to read. If you feel insulted then that is so because your own inability to read. And yes, you are literally a bloodsucker. That's not insulting, but truth.

You're saying I literally suck the blood of animals? LOL You're not exactly a great advert for vegetarianism are you if thats the nearest that you can come to rational debate.
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Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live.
-
Adolf Hitler
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Old 08-08-2008, 01:33 PM   #60
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On the next big contract I do, I am going to save for a Barnett and an Excalibur. I need to try different bolts too. Then, I may try joining the local archery club and getting a Bow.
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