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Old 31-12-2011, 03:52 PM   #1
hayed joe
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Default Detective Inspector Lie Detector

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Police have begun using lie detector tests on suspected sex offenders in a trial which could be widened.

Hertfordshire Police said it had been using polygraphs, which monitor heart rate, brain activity, sweating and blood pressure, during questioning.

The trial involved tests on 25 "low-level" suspects ahead of any charges being brought, the force said.

The Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo) said the tests were not a "single solution to solving crimes".

Hertfordshire Police said polygraph testing had been used to "speed up the risk assessment process".

"The testing is undertaken ahead of any charges being brought and involves specialist officers from the constabulary's paedophile unit working with an expert who conducts the test on first-time suspected offenders who have volunteered to co-operate with police," the force said in a statement.

"Evidence elicited during the examinations is not admissible at court."

Det Ch Insp Glen Channer, head of the force's child protection unit, added: "The polygraph testing provides us with an additional tool and has cut down investigative time significantly, leading to a more efficient process, often helping to identify additional offences."

A further 12-month trial is expected to start in April, the force says.

Acpo, which represents chief police officers in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, said its Homicide Working Group advised police on the use of polygraph techniques.

"Polygraph techniques are complex and are by no means a single solution to solving crimes, potentially offering in certain circumstances an additional tool to structured interrogation," a spokeswoman said.

“If they polygraph six people and they get five truthful results and one deceptive, they can home in on that person”

Bruce Burgess
Formerly of the British Polygraph Association
"These initial trials are in their very early stages and we will follow their progress, working with chief officers across the country to provide further guidance if necessary.

"Whether these techniques are adopted elsewhere in the country is a matter for individual chief constables."

The results of lie detector tests are considered too unreliable for use in criminal trials.

Bruce Burgess, a former chairman of the British Polygraph Association, said lie detectors were considered to be a useful "investigative tool" in the US, even though they produced evidence that was "very difficult to get into court" and were unlikely ever to be used as "a guilty or innocent tool".

He said offering polygraph tests to a number of suspects could provide a degree of insight if, for example, somebody refused to take the test.

"If they polygraph six people and they get five truthful results and one deceptive, they can home in on that person and cut down on a lot of police work. That's the way it's used in America," he added.

Although the Hertfordshire pilot looked at the use of lie detectors to aid decisions over whether or not to charge suspects, a three-year pilot study in the East and West Midlands could lead to the compulsory testing of convicted sex offenders.

The Ministry of Justice has been overseeing the project, aimed at testing sex offenders as part of their probation conditions when they are freed from prison.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16371043

Right if this is only used as a tool and not relied on. If this is only to be used on solving complicated sex offences. (As opposed to taking DNA and other processes the police have been happy with before) And if it means prisons will be free of people who were innocent, then you can let this thread die a death.

But isn't this part of the technological fascism we've been warned about?
Do you trust your local copper to use lie detection as a last resort when all their intelligence and intuition fails them? ()
They say in the report that it isn't the be all and end all of policing. But will any of the forces chomping at the bit to get the green light pay any attention to the warnings? If the forces were instructed to fit someone up, then couldn't the results be tampered with?

And they release this news on New Year's Eve when hopefully everyone will be too merry and uncaring to give a toss about it. Is this another degree to raise the temperature they want to boil us in?

(And sorry about the thread title, the rhyme was too powerful to resist)
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Old 31-12-2011, 04:36 PM   #2
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There is no such thing as a lie detector. A polygraph test does not and cannot show if someone is lying. All the research shows that they simply do not work. They are carried out by scam artists. Because they do not work, polygraphs ruin lives through false positive and false negative results.

I've actually had a polygraph test myself for an American company I worked for a while ago. I lied. Did they spot my lies? DId they shite!
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Old 31-12-2011, 04:39 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by lumpy View Post
There is no such thing as a lie detector. A polygraph test does not and cannot show if someone is lying. All the research shows that they simply do not work. They are carried out by scam artists. Because they do not work, polygraphs ruin lives through false positive and false negative results.

I've actually had a polygraph test myself for an American company I worked for a while ago. I lied. Did they spot my lies? DId they shite!
Coming soon to a pisspoor constabulary near you soon then...
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Old 31-12-2011, 06:05 PM   #4
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I wonder if they will roll out the use of these to police officers who are accused of lying , but then again when someone says an officer is lying , the plee normally falls on deaf ears .

If this is the case that this technology is going to be used , would it not be better to use it in a court of law where the results could be shown on a screen to the whole court ?

I'm sure if they are so confident of this tech they should be using it to clear innocent people and convict lying corrupt police officers and witnesses .
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Old 31-12-2011, 06:08 PM   #5
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its a headmash I reckon....not reliable....

they will roll this out for all sort of things i bet...

just use your imagination...

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Old 31-12-2011, 06:09 PM   #6
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im fast beginning to wonder if they just like winding folk up and playing mind games....
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Old 31-12-2011, 06:26 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by hayed joe View Post
Coming soon to a pisspoor constabulary near you soon then...
I expect a lot of investment in this area in the near future. Imagine little hand held devices with instant voice pattern analysis, plod will love it.
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Old 31-12-2011, 06:30 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by nwonow View Post
I expect a lot of investment in this area in the near future. Imagine little hand held devices with instant voice pattern analysis, plod will love it.
See the thing is, they should have told the police that 2000AD actually had strong satire elements. Although yes, the first thing I thought of when I heard this was the "Birdie" devices from Judge Dredd.
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Old 31-12-2011, 07:59 PM   #9
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Contentious things are always introduced on sex offenders first just so that it will be difficult for someone to question the ultimate motives behind the introduction of such technology.

Sex offenders first, suspected tax evaders, people who may commit a hate crime in the future, someone who could be an enemy of the state, how far into the future, doesn't matter, it's all for our protection. To keep us all safe and secure.
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Last edited by rhydra; 31-12-2011 at 08:00 PM.
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Old 31-12-2011, 08:24 PM   #10
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I understand they've been using similar junk science (voice stress analysis) for benefits claims for a few years now.

I think there's an agenda to make this shit more acceptable so taht they can be used to convict people who they want to convict even if there is no reliable evidence, on the basis of "no smoke without fire".

"Our expert says the polygraph shows the accused was lying, members of the jury. I rest my case."
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Old 01-01-2012, 12:24 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lumpy View Post
There is no such thing as a lie detector. A polygraph test does not and cannot show if someone is lying. All the research shows that they simply do not work. They are carried out by scam artists. Because they do not work, polygraphs ruin lives through false positive and false negative results.

I've actually had a polygraph test myself for an American company I worked for a while ago. I lied. Did they spot my lies? DId they shite!
I am totally unable to believe they do not have the technology to create
(if they haven't already) an unbeatable 100% accurate machine to discern the truth.

Think about what technology is out there and come back to that question.

Can you imagine such a machine and the power of it to solve crimes that have lain unsolved for decades?

Can you imagine it being used to question politicians and candidates?

Machine operator: Did you know that there were absolutely no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?

Dubya: Well, eh, um what do you mean by mass destruction

Machine operator: How comfortable were you that your brother Marvin Buush was chief of security for the twin towers

Dubya: Marvin who?
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Old 01-01-2012, 01:29 AM   #12
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It's going to get like Jeremy Kyle
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