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Old 07-01-2017, 06:07 PM   #21
the mighty zhiba
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What if a mischievous elf stole the tape and put an ACDC tape in there (presuming that he had one [presuming the mischievous elf was a 'he']), when the 'scientist' listened he would hear 'Thunderstruck.'

Doesn't mean that ACDC were in the forest!

What if that is where my ACDC tape went!

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Old 07-01-2017, 06:07 PM   #22
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Noise does not necessarily relate to only sound. Hence the need to make the question specifically about sound.
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Old 07-01-2017, 06:08 PM   #23
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Noise does not necessarily relate to only sound. Hence the need to make the question specifically about sound.
Sound or unsound reasoning?
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Old 07-01-2017, 06:09 PM   #24
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Then they would have collapsed the waveform prior.
The waveform that hasn't yet occurred, with a device planted by someone else. That is nonsense.

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Quantum entanglement suggests you wouldn't need to be at source.
That makes no sense either. The concept is that whilst there the sound occurs, when not there it does not. If it occurs when not there but listened to on a device that has no life or senses it disproves the claim.
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Old 07-01-2017, 06:11 PM   #25
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The waveform that hasn't yet occurred, with a device planted by someone else. That is nonsense.



That makes no sense either. The concept is that whilst there the sound occurs, when not there it does not. If it occurs when not there but listened to on a device that has no life or senses it disproves the claim.
Only if you view the universe in wholly objective terms. I do not.

If someone plays a tape of a tree falling in a forest, then I am hearing it not when the tree supposedly fell, but at the time of hearing the recording. I have no proof that the two events are related, only what I have been told.

.

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Old 07-01-2017, 06:12 PM   #26
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What if a mischievous elf stole the tape and put an ACDC tape in there (presuming that he had one [presuming the mischievous elf was a 'he']), when the 'scientist' listened he would hear 'Thunderstruck.'

Doesn't mean that ACDC were in the forest!

You are forgetting that Rock 'N' Roll ain't noise pollution
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Old 07-01-2017, 06:17 PM   #27
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Only if you view the universe in wholly objective terms. I do not.
I don't even know what you are talking about now. Explain thoroughly please. Objectivity uses evidence. If you are saying you use intuition based or other based methodology, by definition it is objective to your senses....whether accurate or not.
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Old 07-01-2017, 06:20 PM   #28
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Did you know that colour does not exist outside of mind?

Ahah!
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Old 07-01-2017, 06:21 PM   #29
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I don't even know what you are talking about now. Explain thoroughly please. Objectivity uses evidence. If you are saying you use intuition based or other based methodology, by definition it is objective to your senses....whether accurate or not.
I added to my last reply, so please read that.

Not intuition. I question reality, even basic reality. Evidence that is not witnessed first hand is somewhat in the realm of hearsay.
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Old 07-01-2017, 07:02 PM   #30
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Is this objectively loud or subjectively loud?

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Old 07-01-2017, 07:09 PM   #31
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Is this objectively loud or subjectively loud?

Objectively loud. However, you are subjectively loud.
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Old 07-01-2017, 07:19 PM   #32
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Objectively loud. However, you are subjectively loud.
LOL RIP headphones
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Old 07-01-2017, 07:45 PM   #33
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I added to my last reply, so please read that.

Not intuition. I question reality, even basic reality. Evidence that is not witnessed first hand is somewhat in the realm of hearsay.
Right, so you assume that the person taping is always lying because you hear a sound?? What if it's your mum
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Old 07-01-2017, 07:47 PM   #34
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Right, so you assume that the person taping is always lying because you hear a sound?? What if it's your mum
No assumption. Assumption would be to take it as evidence of proof without question.

Yeah, even my Mum, lol. Most days assumptions are ok though.

.

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Old 07-01-2017, 08:04 PM   #35
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No assumption. Assumption would be to take it as evidence of proof without question.

Yeah, even my Mum, lol. Most days assumptions are ok though.

.
The point stands. If a sound recorder picks up the sound it disproves the senses argument. Your counter argument is absurd.
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Old 07-01-2017, 08:14 PM   #36
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The point stands. If a sound recorder picks up the sound it disproves the senses argument. Your counter argument is absurd.
Since when has reality not been absurd?

A recorder is part of the apparatus of observing as done by an observer. It matters not that the senses are directly involved, it is the act of observing and the intent to observe. Perhaps even the expectation of the observer has some sway upon the outcome.

.

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Old 07-01-2017, 08:38 PM   #37
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Since when has reality not been absurd?

A recorder is part of the apparatus of observing as done by an observer. It matters not that the senses are directly involved, it is the act of observing and the intent to observe. Perhaps even the expectation of the observer has some sway upon the outcome.

.
There is no sound recorder Neo.
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Old 07-01-2017, 08:39 PM   #38
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Since when has reality not been absurd?
Never.

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A recorder is part of the apparatus of observing as done by an observer. It matters not that the senses are directly involved, it is the act of observing and the intent to observe. Perhaps even the expectation of the observer has some sway upon the outcome.

.
Applying a generic law to sound waves from a particle/wave quantum experiment does not make sense. The laws of physics are measurable, as are sound waves/pressure waves/impacts.

Things can be heard whether consciously or unconsciously, observed or unobserved, recorded or unrecorded.
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Old 07-01-2017, 08:46 PM   #39
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Never.



Applying a generic law to sound waves from a particle/wave quantum experiment does not make sense. The laws of physics are measurable, as are sound waves/pressure waves/impacts.

Things can be heard whether consciously or unconsciously, observed or unobserved, recorded or unrecorded.
I don't disagree with you on that. It's just the nature of reality itself that I may differ with you on. As Paddy pointed out earlier, "Sound does not exist in objective reality, it only exists in your mind". All of reality exists in your mind. The laws of physics exist in your mind. Your mind is quanta. Sound is quanta.
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Old 07-01-2017, 08:50 PM   #40
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The question should read "Does A Falling Tree Make A Sound?"

Without the correct wording the question doesn't make sense.

It's a trick question, nobody gets it because they're not awake!

Sound does not exist in objective reality, it only exists in your mind.

All that exists in reality is pressure waves going back and forth, at least in scientific understanding.
The question should really be "Does sound exist without an observer to hear it ?"

Obviously, cos sound is just vibration that has been decoded by an observer, then there can be no sound without an observer.

But if we change the question again to "Do vibrations exist without an observer ?" then we would have to say that we have no way of knowing. We could put a vibration-detector there to record the vibrations in our absence, but it's the same question again, "Do vibrations exist on the vibration-recorder if there is no observer ?" - Also "Does the sound-recorder exist if there is no observer ?"
It's the quantum physics dead cat in the box thing.
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