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Old 12-04-2011, 06:28 AM   #41
janedoe
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Originally Posted by wisdom_vessel View Post
I had a series of glimpses, sometimes oneness for a whole day prior to the permanence 'I' am currently experiencing... . Adyashanti calls this on and off awakening: unabiding. randomly a day after i read the book oneness by John Greven.. A massive shift took place and there was just Awareness watching awareness. I don't label the objects around me. I just see now lol. basically my experience of the world has altered. In fact "Experience" has altered because there now is no more 'me'. Just 'being'
First, let me say that I am happy for you truly to feel thus as you do. Who is Adashanti? Is it a person, philosophy etc?

If it is any of the above them I am guessing it was perhaps a catalyst to this which you are experiencing and sharing here with us?

What is the difference would you deem this between the glimpses some have and are having as opposed to the permanence if it is permanent this state you are in? Sometimes glimpses feel like they may stay yet... How is this different? If it goes away though you will be ok. I dislike saying that. Hopefully it is irrelevant ok.

Also in this state, what about practical things such as employment etc. I mean for a funny yet plausible example say you work at a supermarket, Tescos maybe and you are having this and how do you function? Seriously, how do you now function in the day to day?


Thank you and know you and all here all have my utmost respect okay.
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Old 12-04-2011, 07:28 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by janedoe View Post
First, let me say that I am happy for you truly to feel thus as you do. Who is Adashanti? Is it a person, philosophy etc?

If it is any of the above them I am guessing it was perhaps a catalyst to this which you are experiencing and sharing here with us?

What is the difference would you deem this between the glimpses some have and are having as opposed to the permanence if it is permanent this state you are in? Sometimes glimpses feel like they may stay yet... How is this different? If it goes away though you will be ok. I dislike saying that. Hopefully it is irrelevant ok.

Also in this state, what about practical things such as employment etc. I mean for a funny yet plausible example say you work at a supermarket, Tescos maybe and you are having this and how do you function? Seriously, how do you now function in the day to day?


Thank you and know you and all here all have my utmost respect okay.
Adyashanti is an enlightened teacher...

It really doesn't matter what your occupation is, how rich you are etc. I study graphic design for example. Everything I do, whether it requires me to think, draw, talk, etc. is all secondary. The primary, natural focus is always the NOW. Universal intelligence runs life in other words. There is no such thing as past and future. It's logical that the present moment only exists and time is an illusion. If I have "future" tasks, I would plan them perhaps. But this process happens in the present and my focus would be on the planning...
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Old 12-04-2011, 07:53 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by wisdom_vessel View Post
Adyashanti is an enlightened teacher...

It really doesn't matter what your occupation is, how rich you are etc. I study graphic design for example. Everything I do, whether it requires me to think, draw, talk, etc. is all secondary. The primary, natural focus is always the NOW. Universal intelligence runs life in other words. There is no such thing as past and future. It's logical that the present moment only exists and time is an illusion. If I have "future" tasks, I would plan them perhaps. But this process happens in the present and my focus would be on the planning...
How did you meet Adyashanti? Is he of relevance to the rest of us? His teachings? Or did it just do it for yourself in particular? Would you consider him the "way" for us? As he seems to have been for yourself?

As for occupation, riches etc that wasn't really what I meant. I know or think so that any at any time regardless of circumstance etc. anyone has it in them to see and or be at a level of peace of that which you describe.

Again, lets say you work at tesco. You have this experience, how would the day to day go?

Do you have a family? If so what has there reaction been to your state of being now? Was your state gradual.. or overnight?

Also what would you contribute to your awakening? Diet, Adyashanti, etc..? What if any recommendations would you have to achieve this state?
Finally, how are you sure or not if this is a permanent state or a glimpse or rather a good long feel of it?

Again, I ask with respect and genuine curiosity for my own sake and hopefully someone else who wants to know.

Last edited by janedoe; 12-04-2011 at 08:09 AM. Reason: to ask more questions
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Old 12-04-2011, 08:37 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by ftil View Post
Thank you Zsymon for your post. You have a gift. You express yourself with such simplicity and ease. It is a pleasure to read. I wish I could do the same but I was born to talk!

It is interesting again to see how our roads are different and how we both have arrived to the same conclusion. I agree that enlightenment or ascension is another dogma. But it is a very smart way to keep people busy looking for something that can’t be attained. I view any dogma whether Eastern or Western as a way to keep us away from our feelings and intuition, therefore, from our inner guidance. The more people are detached from their feelings, the more they look outside of themselves for the answers, filling their minds with the promise of enlightenment. But if people can stop, get honest with themselves, and ask why they look for enlightenment they may discover that their lives are meaningless and empty and their hearts are hungry. I have seen many people who used spirituality as a form of addiction. But addiction can only work for a certain period of time and the feelings have to break through.

I agree that there is not absolute truth. People may have endless discussion whether the absolute truth exist or not but those discussions lead nowhere. But it provides a false sense of connection with people and a false sense of self importance. But how people can develop deeper connections with others, if they are detached from the core of who they are. I see it as a smart way to control us and keep us in misery. And the more unhappy people are, the more they control or fight with each other, and the more they look for any remedy to stop their pain, accepting any dogma or belief.
+1

Couldn't have said it better.

I believe there are no such things as enlightened teachers. In spirituality
there are no teachers, only friends and mentors who support you in your
own individual quest for your truth.

Every person I saw on the internet calling themselves enlightened teachers,
mostly from India, had the same Hindu/Buddhism dogmatic belief system
they told would lead people to enlightenment. They even go as far as to
say it's impossible to awaken spiritually without an Indian guru.. and the
ones that don't ask money directly, have their pupils act as maids for
the ashram.

They have this hierarchy often, levels that an initiate can climb to learn
more "knowledge" and gain greater prestige within the group. There was
this women who had spent ten years in an ashram without ever reaching
past the first level.. all she ever did was clean the dishes and pull weed.

These Buddhist monks and Indian gurus are all charlatans. My father once
told me he didn't like the Dalai Lama.. I asked him why not, in my ignorance
I said he seems to represent the religion that is closest to the truth, which
isn't true at all of course, Buddhism completely destroyed the teachings of
Buddha and replaced it with dogma and lies.. just like Christianity did with
Jesus.

But my father, who is not spiritual but has a freaky ability to gauge people's
true personality in a few moments time, he just instantly knows if someone
is good news or bad news, and he's not even aware of it. So me and my
friends used what abilities we could pool together to investigate the Dalai
Lama, also searched about him on the internet, and we found our that he
is involved in some very shady business, both physical and spiritual, and
when we looked at his soul, it was black as pitch.

His soul noticed us spying on him and just laughed at us.. and not in a good
way.. more like in a nightmare on elm street way. So yeah, the Dalai Lama
is a dark soul, no doubt about it. It surprised me, but it shouldn't have at
all, since Buddhism is just another control mechanism, one that befouls the
name of the great Buddha, who was just like Jesus, a Light oracle. Almost
nothing in Buddhism has anything to do with what Buddha said, and many
of the words they put in Buddha's mouth, he never uttered. Just like with
Jesus.

The problem is that we western people have confused Asian religion with
spirituality. All those concepts we think are spiritual truths, are just Asian
religious dogma. The only truths you find in religous scriptures, if you've
got the experience to recognize them, is knowledge about the darkness,
about the invaders.

Religion teaches us nothing about love and the Light, but if you have the
experience to recognize the bigger picture behind the words, you can find
a lot of information about the darkness in the religous books and scriptures.
For example the story of Lucifer having been an archangel, disobeyed the
rules and cast down into hellish astral realms, is probably literally the truth.
But you have to have experience with archangels, to know that archangels
are not benevolent beings, they are beautiful creatures, but they are just
as deceptive and brutal as demons.. just one of many astral factions.

Archangels are seen as benevolent in spiritual communities.. but why? The
knowledge about archangels we have comes from a religion.. and a religion
is a control mechanism to fill people with lies and block their spiritual path..
so isn't it obvious that many of these widely accepted ideas are false?

The greatest error spiritual people made, is confusing religion with spirituality.
They took ideas from all religions, mushed them together and call it spirituality,
and after a while people started accepting all those religious dogmas as truth,
and don't even know anymore all they're believing in is religious dogma. Even
though they often despise religion, they believe in religious dogmas just cuz
the religious ideas were called spiritual.

Find a group of people who despise religion, take a bunch of religious dogmas
and mush them together into a packet and call it spiritual, and they will believe
everything you say, completely unable to recognize they are believing in the
same religious dogmas they despise.

Ascension, enlightenment, karma, sin, escaping the cycle of rebirth, blaming
yourself for your suffering, they're all religous dogmas.. they are not spiritual
concepts. Enlightenment is not a spiritual concept, it is purely religious, and
in my view, all these religious dogmas are lies to stop people from awakening.

We live on a planet that is spiritually healed and liberated, but on its surface
the darkness still rules, and has been ruling for 90.000 years.. do you really
think they would allow the truth to be available to the public? Do you really
think they would create entire belief systems based on the truth?

The more knowledge of the truth you have, the harder it gets for others to
manipulate you.. so why on Earth would they make the truth so available?
The answer is, they didn't.. 99.99% of all spiritual books are disinformation,
and everything that is religous is designed to prevent individual awakening.

Last edited by zsymon; 12-04-2011 at 09:09 AM.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:38 AM   #45
janedoe
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Dalai Lama, Mother Teresa, etc, same SHIT to me. Literally.

Last edited by janedoe; 12-04-2011 at 09:42 AM. Reason: to emphasize the blatant disregard for their roles and their peers
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:42 AM   #46
wisdom_vessel
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Originally Posted by janedoe View Post
How did you meet Adyashanti? Is he of relevance to the rest of us? His teachings? Or did it just do it for yourself in particular? Would you consider him the "way" for us? As he seems to have been for yourself?

As for occupation, riches etc that wasn't really what I meant. I know or think so that any at any time regardless of circumstance etc. anyone has it in them to see and or be at a level of peace of that which you describe.

Again, lets say you work at tesco. You have this experience, how would the day to day go?

Do you have a family? If so what has there reaction been to your state of being now? Was your state gradual.. or overnight?

Also what would you contribute to your awakening? Diet, Adyashanti, etc..? What if any recommendations would you have to achieve this state?
Finally, how are you sure or not if this is a permanent state or a glimpse or rather a good long feel of it?

Again, I ask with respect and genuine curiosity for my own sake and hopefully someone else who wants to know.
I've never met Adyashanti, just read he's literature in relation to awakening. What's Tesco? A supermarket? I'm from South Africa...

I do have a family. My parents seem happy with the way I interact with them since the shift occurred, I am more eager to help around etc. They say I'm happier and more hyper. U must understand that what is manifested in the awakened state is brilliant. Synchronicities start happening and so on. Basically my vehicle functions at it's optimum... I can't emphasise enough about the amount of gratitude i have for the constant presence I am in. Note I use the terms 'I' and 'me' out of necessity, since language requires me to use these terms in everyday life but in actuality there is no 'me' or 'I'.

Sorry if it takes me long to reply, I just go home from college.
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Old 12-04-2011, 07:44 PM   #47
janedoe
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Originally Posted by wisdom_vessel View Post
I've never met Adyashanti, just read he's literature in relation to awakening. What's Tesco? A supermarket? I'm from South Africa...

I do have a family. My parents seem happy with the way I interact with them since the shift occurred, I am more eager to help around etc. They say I'm happier and more hyper. U must understand that what is manifested in the awakened state is brilliant. Synchronicities start happening and so on. Basically my vehicle functions at it's optimum... I can't emphasise enough about the amount of gratitude i have for the constant presence I am in. Note I use the terms 'I' and 'me' out of necessity, since language requires me to use these terms in everyday life but in actuality there is no 'me' or 'I'.

Sorry if it takes me long to reply, I just go home from college.
Thank you for replying and no worries at all on the time of your reply. We all have lives to live.

Yes, Tescos is a supermarket, I just used it as an example ( not the best) to try and understand on some level how your day to day interactions go now in your present state. Which you have explained above very well.

I am delighted for you and for your family.
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Old 12-04-2011, 08:59 PM   #48
wisdom_vessel
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Originally Posted by zsymon View Post
+1

Couldn't have said it better.

I believe there are no such things as enlightened teachers. In spirituality
there are no teachers, only friends and mentors who support you in your
own individual quest for your truth.

Every person I saw on the internet calling themselves enlightened teachers,
mostly from India, had the same Hindu/Buddhism dogmatic belief system
they told would lead people to enlightenment. They even go as far as to
say it's impossible to awaken spiritually without an Indian guru.. and the
ones that don't ask money directly, have their pupils act as maids for
the ashram.

They have this hierarchy often, levels that an initiate can climb to learn
more "knowledge" and gain greater prestige within the group. There was
this women who had spent ten years in an ashram without ever reaching
past the first level.. all she ever did was clean the dishes and pull weed.

These Buddhist monks and Indian gurus are all charlatans. My father once
told me he didn't like the Dalai Lama.. I asked him why not, in my ignorance
I said he seems to represent the religion that is closest to the truth, which
isn't true at all of course, Buddhism completely destroyed the teachings of
Buddha and replaced it with dogma and lies.. just like Christianity did with
Jesus.

But my father, who is not spiritual but has a freaky ability to gauge people's
true personality in a few moments time, he just instantly knows if someone
is good news or bad news, and he's not even aware of it. So me and my
friends used what abilities we could pool together to investigate the Dalai
Lama, also searched about him on the internet, and we found our that he
is involved in some very shady business, both physical and spiritual, and
when we looked at his soul, it was black as pitch.

His soul noticed us spying on him and just laughed at us.. and not in a good
way.. more like in a nightmare on elm street way. So yeah, the Dalai Lama
is a dark soul, no doubt about it. It surprised me, but it shouldn't have at
all, since Buddhism is just another control mechanism, one that befouls the
name of the great Buddha, who was just like Jesus, a Light oracle. Almost
nothing in Buddhism has anything to do with what Buddha said, and many
of the words they put in Buddha's mouth, he never uttered. Just like with
Jesus.

The problem is that we western people have confused Asian religion with
spirituality. All those concepts we think are spiritual truths, are just Asian
religious dogma. The only truths you find in religous scriptures, if you've
got the experience to recognize them, is knowledge about the darkness,
about the invaders.

Religion teaches us nothing about love and the Light, but if you have the
experience to recognize the bigger picture behind the words, you can find
a lot of information about the darkness in the religous books and scriptures.
For example the story of Lucifer having been an archangel, disobeyed the
rules and cast down into hellish astral realms, is probably literally the truth.
But you have to have experience with archangels, to know that archangels
are not benevolent beings, they are beautiful creatures, but they are just
as deceptive and brutal as demons.. just one of many astral factions.

Archangels are seen as benevolent in spiritual communities.. but why? The
knowledge about archangels we have comes from a religion.. and a religion
is a control mechanism to fill people with lies and block their spiritual path..
so isn't it obvious that many of these widely accepted ideas are false?

The greatest error spiritual people made, is confusing religion with spirituality.
They took ideas from all religions, mushed them together and call it spirituality,
and after a while people started accepting all those religious dogmas as truth,
and don't even know anymore all they're believing in is religious dogma. Even
though they often despise religion, they believe in religious dogmas just cuz
the religious ideas were called spiritual.

Find a group of people who despise religion, take a bunch of religious dogmas
and mush them together into a packet and call it spiritual, and they will believe
everything you say, completely unable to recognize they are believing in the
same religious dogmas they despise.

Ascension, enlightenment, karma, sin, escaping the cycle of rebirth, blaming
yourself for your suffering, they're all religous dogmas.. they are not spiritual
concepts. Enlightenment is not a spiritual concept, it is purely religious, and
in my view, all these religious dogmas are lies to stop people from awakening.

We live on a planet that is spiritually healed and liberated, but on its surface
the darkness still rules, and has been ruling for 90.000 years.. do you really
think they would allow the truth to be available to the public? Do you really
think they would create entire belief systems based on the truth?

The more knowledge of the truth you have, the harder it gets for others to
manipulate you.. so why on Earth would they make the truth so available?
The answer is, they didn't.. 99.99% of all spiritual books are disinformation,
and everything that is religous is designed to prevent individual awakening.
You have a distorted view of enlightenment. Enlightenment or awakening cannot be conceptualised and it is the utter antithesis of dogma my friend. I am aware of people in Ashrams living under Gurus and the hierarchical rest. This is not what I know as truth however. The non-dualistic truth I have come about transcends everything of religious nature. The Spirituality i have aligned with is far from what you think Zsymon. You seem to generalize largely, all the stories of enlightenment you have come across you seem to take as infallible... The fact is that true spirituality dissolves all ideology, beliefs, ideas, concepts, past, future... And whats left s aesthetic, pristine beauty that we'll call presence or universal intelligence.

This eternal presence of which I speak is something u already have it's in front of u. People treat enlightenment as a superhuman accomplishment. This is so far from the truth... We are just so conditioned and entrapped in form and a synthetic system, to break free. It's your prerogative to say enlightenment is a lie or whatever... but I a have no incentive to deceive and this experience is authentic.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:00 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by janedoe View Post
Thank you for replying and no worries at all on the time of your reply. We all have lives to live.

Yes, Tescos is a supermarket, I just used it as an example ( not the best) to try and understand on some level how your day to day interactions go now in your present state. Which you have explained above very well.

I am delighted for you and for your family.
You are welcome. And thanx
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:06 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by wisdom_vessel View Post
You have a distorted view of enlightenment. Enlightenment or awakening cannot be conceptualised and it is the utter antithesis of dogma my friend. I am aware of people in Ashrams living under Gurus and the hierarchical rest. This is not what I know as truth however. The non-dualistic truth I have come about transcends everything of religious nature. The Spirituality i have aligned with is far from what you think Zsymon. You seem to generalize largely, all the stories of enlightenment you have come across you seem to take as infallible... The fact is that true spirituality dissolves all ideology, beliefs, ideas, concepts, past, future... And whats left s aesthetic, pristine beauty that we'll call presence or universal intelligence.

This eternal presence of which I speak is something u already have it's in front of u. People treat enlightenment as a superhuman accomplishment. This is so far from the truth... We are just so conditioned and entrapped in form and a synthetic system, to break free. It's your prerogative to say enlightenment is a lie or whatever... but I a have no incentive to deceive and this experience is authentic.
I agree.
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:32 PM   #51
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Anyone can make up their own definition of enlightenment though, I am
talking about the real concept of enlightenment, and it is religious, not
spiritual.

We can give our own definition to anything we want, but what I'm talking
about is the original meaning of these concepts like karma and ascension
and enlightenment, as religious dogmas.

The term enlightenment comes from religion, not spirituality. You can give
it your own definition, but then it isn't really enlightenment anymore, then
it is what you made of it.. something else.

I just want to clarify that the terms you're using to describe what you feel
is the truth, are religious.

And technically if you give the term enlightenment your own definition, it
can't be called enlightenment anymore, then it becomes something else,
something you can name any way you want.

These terms, enlightenment and ascension and karma, have strict religious
descriptions. If you change those descriptions you can't really call it by the
same name anymore, because karma is what religion said what it is, it's not
what you say it is. You didn't invent the concept of karma, religion did, they
made up the name and the description.

That's why there's so much confusion when people talk about these religious
concepts, they all give their own meaning to it and then call it spiritual. You
will just end up with chaotic debates like that.

If two people talk about a chair, and one person thinks a chair is a bed, then
they aren't going to understand eachother. If you speak about enlightenment
and you give it your own definition, and someone else gives it his own as well
then there's only confusion.

That's why when we speak about enlightenment, we should use the true
meaning of the word, the meaning created by the religion that fabricated
the concept of enlightenment.

If you say enlightenment transcends religion, that makes no sense at all,
since enlightenment is a religious concept, it is not a spiritual concept. If
you believe in some elevation over others like enlightenment, but it's not
the same definition as enlightenment as a religious dogma, then why would
you call it enlightenment?

Enlightenment is what it is, it has a description you can read in asian religion,
just like karma and sin and ascension.. they all have set definitions and set
descriptions.. if you go change those descriptions, it's pointless to still call
it by its religious name.. because what you're describing is not enlightenment,
it's something you came up with.

Your description of enlightenment as a concept is probably more spiritually
accurate than the real religious definition of enlightenment, but you can not
really call it enlightenment anymore, you turned it into something else and
therefor should give it another name, otherwise there will only be confusion.

Basically, if you're making a beef hamburger, and you use chicken to make it,
you can't call it a beef hamburger anymore. I think that expressed more clearly
what I'm trying to say.

A beef hamburger is made with beef, just like enlightenment is what religion
says it is, if you change its description, then it isn't enlightenment anymore.

If you take the concept of the seven mortal sins, and you add two more sins,
then you can't call that concept the seven mortal sins anymore.

You can create any description you want about karma, but if that description
doesn't match the way religion describes it, then it isn't karma anymore. You
can call it karma, but it isn't karma, it's something you created. If you call
your version of karma, karma, people are not going to understand what you
mean if you enter a debate. Karma is karma, it's a religious dogma with a
set description, if you change that description then it isn't karma anymore,
because religion is what fabricated the concept of karma, not you.

Kind of like a patent. A patent on an invention describes the invention the
way it was registered during patenting. If you change the invention, then
it doesn't fall under that patent anymore and you have to make a new one,
a new patent.. in karma's case, another name to describe your version of
karma.. maybe call it karmo or karmi.. I don't know.

I'm having trouble explaining this, I hope I'm getting the message through.

Karma means you are punished in this life for the bad deeds of your past
life. When you say: it means something else, then it isn't karma anymore
what you're describing, because karma is karma is karma, the way religion
described it, it's nothing else except the way religion described it.

This is exactly why we need to find our own truth in our heart, and not
use religious concepts and serve them up as spiritual truths.. that only
creates confusion. If you tell someone karma is this and that, and what
you say is different than what religion says, then what you're describing
is not karma.

You can't say the religious description of karma is wrong, because it was
religion that fabricated that description, there are no facts about karma,
there is only a concept religion came up with and called it karma.

We need to forget about all these concepts and find our own truth.. as long
as we keep messing around with the thousands of different descriptions that
spiritual people give to these religious concepts, we are going nowhere.

One buy says karma is that, another one says it's that, another one has
yet another description? What is the point in all this? Karma is what it is, a
fabricated religious concept to keep people locked in shame, guilt and self
blame.. that's the conclusion you reach when you read about karma in the
religious description.. it's only real description.

We need to forget about enlightenment, karma, sin, ascension and all those
religious dogmas, stop making up our own descriptions about them, and just
focus on finding the truth inside ourselves. As long as we're messing with
all these descriptions, arguing over who's description is the truth and who's
is not the truth, we are getting nowhere.

These concepts are how religion fabricated them, not how you describe them.
Calling your own descriptions by the same name as the religious ones, is very
much pointless, and leads to completely pointless debates and arguments.

There is no truth about karma or enlightenment or ascension.. these concepts
are all just made up by religions to keep people from walking their own path
and seeking their own truth inside themselves. Isn't it obvious that religions
are control mechanisms? Why would you believe anything these religions have
to say about the Universe? If religions are control mechanisms, which they
obviously are, then why would you believe in the concept of karma?

Enlightenment doesn't transcend religion, it IS religion.

The spiritual community will only start making progress if they stop believing
in all these religious concepts, if they stop serving them up as spiritual truth,
trying to make people forget that they are religious dogmas, nothing else.

Last edited by zsymon; 12-04-2011 at 10:57 PM.
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:36 PM   #52
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wisdom_vessel wrote:

You have a distorted view of enlightenment. Enlightenment or awakening cannot be conceptualised and it is the utter antithesis of dogma my friend. I am aware of people in Ashrams living under Gurus and the hierarchical rest. This is not what I know as truth however. The non-dualistic truth I have come about transcends everything of religious nature. The Spirituality i have aligned with is far from what you think Zsymon. You seem to generalize largely, all the stories of enlightenment you have come across you seem to take as infallible... The fact is that true spirituality dissolves all ideology, beliefs, ideas, concepts, past, future... And whats left s aesthetic, pristine beauty that we'll call presence or universal intelligence.

This eternal presence of which I speak is something u already have it's in front of u. People treat enlightenment as a superhuman accomplishment. This is so far from the truth... We are just so conditioned and entrapped in form and a synthetic system, to break free. It's your prerogative to say enlightenment is a lie or whatever... but I a have no incentive to deceive and this experience is authentic.
Zsymon doen’t have a distorted view of enlightenment. He is talking about much deeper experience that you do. I had experience similar to yours more than 10 years ago. I still can’t put in words and even if I try it doesn’t depict my experience as words are so limited. I would say it was bliss, connection with universe and deep understanding. I have never used drugs but I felt so high. But this description is not even close to my experience. I didn’t read any spiritual books at that time. It came without being influenced by any teachings. After 4 days it was gone and I have never experienced it since then. But I started to read spiritual teaching, trying to understand what happed to me. I wanted to find the key how to access that experience and have it for the rest of my life. The closet explanation I have found in Raja Yoga. According to Raja Yoga, I accessed spiritual mind. But this explanation is not good enough.
But you will have a different understanding and perspective about enlightemmt 10 years later and you will never forget the feelings as I didn’t.
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:42 PM   #53
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Zsymon wrote:

We need to forget about enlightenment, karma, sin, ascension and all those
religious dogmas, stop making up our own descriptions about them, and just
focus on finding the truth inside ourselves. As long as we're messing with
all these descriptions, arguing over who's description is the truth and who's
is not the truth, we are getting nowhere.
I posted my response before reading yours. You said exactly what I was doing. I couldn’t understand what happened to me so that I started reading many spiritual teachings. But it led me nowhere as I was constantly seeking the correct explanation and the magic key to access that experience. We have this need to name everything we experience. It is like as if labeling gave us a deeper understanding and some guidance. But it also gives us a sense of a false security. I am wondering if I will have that experience again since I have stopped reading spiritual books and got rid of many false beliefs. And perhaps, it is a key.
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Old 13-04-2011, 01:16 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by wisdom_vessel View Post
I am self realized, awakened or what ever you wish to call it. These are just words... And there is no (I) that's self realized. This is the paradox. I have transcended all objects (physical and mental) and all that's left is the observer. I can stop thinking for ever if i wish... Even though I am using the word 'I' to explain this, there really is no 'I', just the eternal now... The ego has been transcended and all that the observer ('I') can possibly do is be grateful for this eternal presence. I have been in this state for the past 4 days. Emotions are controlled easily, there's no fear, hate etc. just love, super reactivity to what is happening around me and love.... whatever I do is for the higher purpose... Ego is not evil. U must realise this to transcend it. It dissolves... NOW is truly the key... The gratitude i feel for being awake is immense...
In my experience this happens when we finally learn to quiet the mind from the chatter, stop the emotional reactions that come from the reptilian brain and live in the moment.

It's something each person can choose for themselves. Honestly I don't see it as anything but a choice. I am not transcended or "above" anyone. I have lived this way for quite a few years.

The thing is unless a person controls their vibrational level also it can be a bad thing where people are almost in a void, feeling nothing. It needs to be happening along with a constant feeling of love, compassion and gratefullness. Almost all of what we react to in a negative way we will see from a different point of view when this happens. If we choose to react it will be from the place of compassion or inner expression.

For those who want this I suggest the place to begin is to listen to other people, REALLY listen. Don't think just listen. Then apply it your reading of things like this, stop the chatter in your head as you read. Wait until you are done reading to decide what you think of a post. Gradually your mind will begin to learn to STOP when you want it to. At that point I was taught to stare at a candle flame for 5 minutes (set a timer far enough away that it won't startle you) with a clear mind and every time words came into my head make a mark on a piece of paper with a pencil. When you can do this for the 5 minutes it's time to begin clearing your mind all the time unless you decide to think or have reason to (like when driving).

When I began learning this years ago I could not stop thinking in words for more than 30 seconds. Now for the most part it's just how I am. It brings a great deal of peace with it, added intuition and oddly enough added creativity.
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Old 13-04-2011, 02:12 AM   #55
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ufochick wrote:

In my experience this happens when we finally learn to quiet the mind from the chatter, stop the emotional reactions that come from the reptilian brain and live in the moment.

It's something each person can choose for themselves. Honestly I don't see it as anything but a choice. I am not transcended or "above" anyone. I have lived this way for quite a few years.

The thing is unless a person controls their vibrational level also it can be a bad thing where people are almost in a void, feeling nothing. It needs to be happening along with a constant feeling of love, compassion and gratefullness. Almost all of what we react to in a negative way we will see from a different point of view when this happens. If we choose to react it will be from the place of compassion or inner expression.

For those who want this I suggest the place to begin is to listen to other people, REALLY listen. Don't think just listen. Then apply it your reading of things like this, stop the chatter in your head as you read. Wait until you are done reading to decide what you think of a post. Gradually your mind will begin to learn to STOP when you want it to. At that point I was taught to stare at a candle flame for 5 minutes (set a timer far enough away that it won't startle you) with a clear mind and every time words came into my head make a mark on a piece of paper with a pencil. When you can do this for the 5 minutes it's time to begin clearing your mind all the time unless you decide to think or have reason to (like when driving).

When I began learning this years ago I could not stop thinking in words for more than 30 seconds. Now for the most part it's just how I am. It brings a great deal of peace with it, added intuition and oddly enough added creativity.

Everybody has to find own way. There is no a magical solution. I do understand OP because I experienced that. It is a bliss that those who experienced it want to have it. Perhaps, it is a natural state of being that has been lost. I don’t know but I would like to know. I agree that love, compassion and gratefulness is a key and it can only be archived if our hearts are opened. We have a long way to go seeing how people control and fight with each other. My way or highway is a motto for so many.
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Old 13-04-2011, 03:45 PM   #56
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Everybody has to find own way.
absolutely! i'm not sure about either version of "enlightenment" presented here. statistically seen, the experience of oneness should sound good because there were and are many people who described this, from buddha over chinese masters and the sufis to meister eckhart...



@ wisdom_vessel:

do you still "organize" your life? what about relationships to other people? are there still thoughts trying to bring you back to a life in limitation? aren't you still attached to material forms?
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Old 14-04-2011, 06:46 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by hierophant View Post
absolutely! i'm not sure about either version of "enlightenment" presented here. statistically seen, the experience of oneness should sound good because there were and are many people who described this, from buddha over chinese masters and the sufis to meister eckhart...



@ wisdom_vessel:

do you still "organize" your life? what about relationships to other people? are there still thoughts trying to bring you back to a life in limitation? aren't you still attached to material forms?
I organize "stuff" but not life. The future events as I've mentioned before are secondary to the present moment, which is life itself. Relationships as social constructs that need maintaining are also secondary. Everything falls into place when you are aligned with the now. It's almost like I'm on autopilot
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Old 14-04-2011, 07:47 PM   #58
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I organize "stuff" but not life. The future events as I've mentioned before are secondary to the present moment, which is life itself. Relationships as social constructs that need maintaining are also secondary. Everything falls into place when you are aligned with the now. It's almost like I'm on autopilot
Sounds very similiar to partial-possession. Tho you might say I'm very wrong and don't understand.. which is probably true.

Do you still eat, breathe, sleep and go to the toilet?

Last edited by manmade; 14-04-2011 at 07:48 PM.
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Old 14-04-2011, 08:28 PM   #59
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Sounds very similiar to partial-possession. Tho you might say I'm very wrong and don't understand.. which is probably true.

Do you still eat, breathe, sleep and go to the toilet?
lol... There is no free will. And yes I am possessed. By life.. The way I explain it might sound weird but to me the flow is all sane... Nothing can be more natural than this. There's no separate entity possessing me. I am. period... The way I breath was extremely weird at one stage but it's normal now. It almost stopped in fact... I eat, and sleep yes.

Edit: O yes.. and I shit as well.

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Old 14-04-2011, 08:32 PM   #60
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lol... There is no free will. And yes I am possessed. By life.. The way I explain it might sound weird but to me the flow is all sane... Nothing can be more natural than this. There's no separate entity possessing me. I am. period... The way I breath was extremely weird at one stage but it's normal now. It almost stopped in fact... I eat, and sleep yes.
No freewill? How does that work?... I'm all ears
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