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Old 29-03-2015, 05:10 PM   #1181
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And pantheists.... Who believe god exists in all things. Like a force of nature.
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Old 29-03-2015, 05:43 PM   #1182
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It doesn't matter 'which' god.

I would say everyone here is atheistic in some way. You believe in the Christian god? Then your an atheist when it come the every other one.

You believe gods a force of nature? Then your an atheist to the idea of a 'personal god.'

Where all atheists when it comes to the gods we don't beileve in. Me. I just go one god further....
"A religion without a Goddess is half atheistic." -Unknown
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Old 29-03-2015, 06:25 PM   #1183
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and you can cross bread a few of these together for taste. .
That would be deicide.

You must give me the recipe.
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Old 29-03-2015, 06:35 PM   #1184
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not true for me. I don't doubt that there are many spiritual beings in existence.
Do you consider these spiritual beings as being different a aspects of but still comprising and being part of the divine - as the Egyptian Neters?

Or do you regard them as separate beings vibrating on a higher plane but still a plane below the divine?

Just curious.
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Old 29-03-2015, 06:55 PM   #1185
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Do you consider these spiritual beings as being different a aspects of but still comprising and being part of the divine - as the Egyptian Neters?

Or do you regard them as separate beings vibrating on a higher plane but still a plane below the divine?

Just curious.
both. some are emanations of the Most High, and some are distinct beings, creations of the Most High.
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Old 29-03-2015, 06:56 PM   #1186
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john 6:40 "For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
But it talks about raising up, not resurrected to have another bash at it.

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consider that the book of genesis is jewish rather than gnostic.
I have.

But consider that the Jews were not the first people (according to archeology) and this is not the first text on point and that it is based on earlier texts by different societies.

For example, there are huge parallels between Genesis and the Egyptian creation myth.

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they knew good, bc they knew the Creator:

ps 107:1 "Give thanks to the LORD, for he is good; his love endures forever."
No, they did not have gnosis of god. They had blind obedience. Genesis is very clear that gnosis only came after eating from the tree of knowledge.

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gods, in scripture, means judges. as I said before, when the Creator said, "the man has become like one of us", it was with a sense of sadness and compassion.

eden was paradise, not sure why anyone would consider that a prison.
Ignorance is bliss.

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they actually had a choice given to them once the tree of knowledge was prohibited by the Creator: to eat or not to eat.

fleshly desire was innate. the serpent brought doubt: He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
It is a choice between liberation and servitude. But a choice between the two is not freedom.

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if they were programmed zombies, the Creator wouldn't have had to prohibit the tree of knowledge.
So when government imposes regulations this makes you free?

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again, adam and eve had the ability to choose before they met that old serpent. keep in mind, the Creator allowed all of this to proceed, which means the Creator allowed the serpent into eden.
Why?

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it's not a problem for me either. "in all things G-d works for the good of those who love Him."
Then he is not omnibenevolent?

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this is from tolkien's cosmogony of middle earth: "The Universe still operates according to the design declared in the Music, and the flaws within it come from the discords of Melkor, which have been part of it since its beginning. Nevertheless, Ilúvatar [the Creator] insisted that these faults would but bring forth new and greater things in the Music's achievement."
I don't know a lot about Tolkien. I do find it interesting that he refers to music which of course is symbolic for (or another function of) harmony.

Plato's harmony of the spheres is also important for the workings of the Universe - particularly its astrological implications.

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how is that?
He acknowledges that evil runs against the concept an all powerful all loving go that intervenes.

He doesn't manage to answer the question though. He just says it cannot be understood.
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Old 29-03-2015, 06:56 PM   #1187
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"A religion without a Goddess is half atheistic." -Unknown
the Creator would have both feminine and masculine attributes.
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Old 29-03-2015, 06:57 PM   #1188
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both. some are emanations of the Most High, and some are distinct beings, creations of the Most High.
Fair enough.

Nice answer!
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Old 29-03-2015, 07:07 PM   #1189
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The creator would have both feminine and masculine attributes?..... Who doesn't.
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Love is natural, Hate is taught....
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Old 29-03-2015, 07:28 PM   #1190
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The creator would have both feminine and masculine attributes?..... Who doesn't.
Absolutely.

Another very compelling reason why the monotheisms are man made. The ruling classes sought to remove the right side (feminine) of the brain to gain control.
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Old 29-03-2015, 07:35 PM   #1191
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And pantheists.... Who believe god exists in all things. Like a force of nature.
Yes but that is not a description of if you believe in god/gods or not, its how you perceive the nature of what god is and how it exists...

We also have Panentheism which means God is of a separate source..
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Old 29-03-2015, 08:33 PM   #1192
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But it talks about raising up, not resurrected to have another bash at it.
I won't post this entire passage bc of it's length:

the resurrection body

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...58&version=NLT

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I have.

But consider that the Jews were not the first people (according to archeology) and this is not the first text on point and that it is based on earlier texts by different societies.

For example, there are huge parallels between Genesis and the Egyptian creation myth.
I've thought about this point since yesterday, and I'll say that there is a deeper, spiritual meaning to "martyrs for Jesus" apart from the literal meaning. however, all meaning would be analogous.

as an aside, sometimes I get caught up in the 'back and forth' of a debate and pigeonhole myself.

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No, they did not have gnosis of god. They had blind obedience. Genesis is very clear that gnosis only came after eating from the tree of knowledge.
"And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil." knowing good and evil. G-d is good. adam and eve knew G-d, therefore, they knew good.

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Ignorance is bliss.
I think that depends on what one is ignorant of.

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It is a choice between liberation and servitude. But a choice between the two is not freedom.
servitude to the Most High is liberation. it is our true purpose.

"you, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. but do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love."

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So when government imposes regulations this makes you free?
depends on the regulation.

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Why?
we were meant to choose. we are meant to mature from seeds into trees, and become contributors to the great song.

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Then he is not omnibenevolent?
I'd say that the greater good is to allow freedom of choice. consider that fire burns but also purifies. if fire were made so that it didn't burn it also wouldn't purify.

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I don't know a lot about Tolkien. I do find it interesting that he refers to music which of course is symbolic for (or another function of) harmony.

Plato's harmony of the spheres is also important for the workings of the Universe - particularly its astrological implications.
agreed.

eru illuvator was tolkien's version of the Creator within the middle earth cosmogony. eru created through song, and created lesser beings who also created (sub-created) through song. melkor was the first of those beings to sing disharmoniously. eru allowed it bc it only made the song that much more beautiful; bitter sweet. so, even disharmony couldn't ultimately disrupt the great song of eru, it only furthered eru's purpose despite melkor's wishes.

this relates to what tolkien called the "eucatastrophe", the sudden plot twist in a 'fairy story' that provided a happy ending. tolkien called the birth of Yeshua the eucatastrophe of history, and the resurrection of Yeshua the eucatastrophe of the gospel itself. even the serpent's disharmony worked toward the great song.

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He acknowledges that evil runs against the concept an all powerful all loving go that intervenes.

He doesn't manage to answer the question though. He just says it cannot be understood.
I don't see that he's saying that. lewis is saying that his concept of justice wasn't to be found in reality, so where did he get his concept of justice? this is similar to plato's theory of forms.

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These Forms are the essences of various objects: they are that without which a thing would not be the kind of thing it is. For example, there are countless tables in the world but the Form of tableness is at the core; it is the essence of all of them.[14] Plato's Socrates held that the world of Forms is transcendent to our own world (the world of substances) and also is the essential basis of reality. Super-ordinate to matter, Forms are the most pure of all things. Furthermore, he believed that true knowledge/intelligence is the ability to grasp the world of Forms with one's mind.[15]
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Old 29-03-2015, 08:35 PM   #1193
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Fair enough.

Nice answer!
thanks pal.
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Old 29-03-2015, 08:38 PM   #1194
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The creator would have both feminine and masculine attributes?..... Who doesn't.
this relates to plato's theory of forms. the form or root of masculinity and femininity is the Creator.

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Absolutely.

Another very compelling reason why the monotheisms are man made. The ruling classes sought to remove the right side (feminine) of the brain to gain control.
I think it's deeper than that. men have attempted to usurp the throne.
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Old 29-03-2015, 10:36 PM   #1195
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My feeling is the universe is a living body of God and we are all apart of it... as souls we travel and evolve.. learning, growing, becoming more concious..

The universe is very concious, which is why our conciousness is here.. how we were created is something our small brains could not even fathom even if we were shown or told..

Time is something we experience as our brains work that way... bet it is not real and really everything happens at once... (as the closest i can explain in our understanding)

God head is not a deity, has no way of identifying it as its to vast big and deep for us, but deities are things it manifests that we can relate to and recognise.. and God head speaks to us through these Deities, ones that already exists and ones we create..

I am undecided yet if we are completely of that god conciousness... and maybe evolving to the point we become at one with it again... or if we are created to form new God heads and each one of us are progressions of this..

That is my own personal view on God.
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Old 31-03-2015, 01:38 AM   #1196
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God isn't a guy with a beard sitting on a cloud. God is the most powerful force in the universe.
My mate has a dog, Beano, and when he see's a ball, nothin will stop him getting that ball, nothing, not my mate, or me, or a wall, not even God.

i prayed to God to stop Beano getting the balls, but Beano still got the balls and so i give that point, as evidence, that Beano is more a powerful force than God.
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