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Old 10-04-2011, 02:57 AM   #21
shinobishaw1982
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Smile Skeptical

Despite that I am glad that you have found your center (as far as your mind has perceived) I am skeptical of people who proclaim to be 'enlighted' simply because anyone that is truly enlightened does not limit their growth to any absolute.

In otherwords enlightement is a proccess of growth and degrees and what is enlighted to one being is not to another. This is then where one must be careful to not fall into self-deception based upon a few victories.

Enlightenment is a progressive continuous proccess, I have also achieved higher states of Consciousness both in manifest and unmanifest nature yet I don't agree I have attained the light completely.

Attaining the light in its totality would be something that is so profound that there would be no words to describe it.

But I am happy that you're happy.

Last edited by shinobishaw1982; 10-04-2011 at 02:58 AM.
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:06 AM   #22
wisdom_vessel
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Originally Posted by verndewd View Post
without I you have disassociative disorder and that counts in either realm. without I there is no I am without I am you arent.

The difference is that when a collective associate says I the entire collective is present in the representation.

The point is to align to the infinite so that when you say I you feel the resonance through out infinity.
It doesn't matter what 'I' (the vehicle)says or how 'I' say it... The semantics of it is pointless... "there is no feeling resonance throughout infinity"... This would imply 'feeling' and emotion... Awakening is not a sensation, it is a reality... The point is that 'I' am not an entity experiencing reality.. There is just NOW... period. the observer... period
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:26 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by wisdom_vessel View Post
It doesn't matter what 'I' (the vehicle)says or how 'I' say it... The semantics of it is pointless... "there is no feeling resonance throughout infinity"... This would imply 'feeling' and emotion... Awakening is not a sensation, it is a reality... The point is that 'I' am not an entity experiencing reality.. There is just NOW... period. the observer... period
testy are we?

resonance is vibration and nothing more. I am is the pinnacle of being the alpha and the omega of existence. How you twist that to to imply emotion is ridiculous. I is an inescapable manifestation. And the now is infinite. it always has been and will be.

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Old 10-04-2011, 03:48 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by verndewd View Post
testy are we?

resonance is vibration and nothing more. I am is the pinnacle of being the alpha and the omega of existence. How you twist that to to imply emotion is ridiculous. I is an inescapable manifestation. And the now is infinite. it always has been and will be.
Again I have no interest in semantics... Words are just pointers to the ultimate truth... I did not say 'now' is not infinite. I have been using the word ever-present throughout this thread.
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:56 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by shinobishaw1982 View Post
Despite that I am glad that you have found your center (as far as your mind has perceived) I am skeptical of people who proclaim to be 'enlighted' simply because anyone that is truly enlightened does not limit their growth to any absolute.

In otherwords enlightement is a proccess of growth and degrees and what is enlighted to one being is not to another. This is then where one must be careful to not fall into self-deception based upon a few victories.

Enlightenment is a progressive continuous proccess, I have also achieved higher states of Consciousness both in manifest and unmanifest nature yet I don't agree I have attained the light completely.

Attaining the light in its totality would be something that is so profound that there would be no words to describe it.

But I am happy that you're happy.
There are no words to describe it, u are right... It is impossible for me to describe this experience... infinity can't be fathomed... Language is however able to lead the consciousness to the awakened state...
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:06 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by wisdom_vessel View Post
Again I have no interest in semantics... Words are just pointers to the ultimate truth... I did not say 'now' is not infinite. I have been using the word ever-present throughout this thread.
for a person aligned to the universe you certainly get confused easilly.

I said the now is infinite not judging either way. You have had a point of clarity in your life, its not the end its the beginning of an entirely new process Of redefining everything in your perception . so you just walked through the door, beyond it is a lot of hard work, if anything gets easy from this point its simply seeing energy in everything; transmution being into what you have seen can be incredibly difficult as exemplified by your assumption in this reply.

Youre not alone dewd, everyone who walked through the door has to work hard on transforming the internal.
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:06 AM   #27
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I think you are all trying to be too clever with the word "EGO"

ive read many books from the 70s onwards about the ego, and theres realy no big idea on what the ego is, the books where writen by supposed great spychiatrist and profesors, but they didnt mean any thing, most say the ego is personality thats about all realy.

and now you are all talking a load of shit about ego, that dont make any sense or even come close to those books i read about ego and they where all friigin shit books.
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:09 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by rakkoo View Post
I think you are all trying to be too clever with the word "EGO"

ive read many books from the 70s onwards about the ego, and theres realy no big idea on what the ego is, the books where writen by supposed great spychiatrist and profesors, but they didnt mean any thing, most say the ego is personality thats about all realy.

and now you are all talking a load of shit about ego, that dont make any sense or even come close to those books i read about ego and they where all friigin shit books.
For the 1843 short story, see Egotism; or, The Bosom-Serpent.

"In order to kill the demon of egotism (Madāsura) who had attacked him, Gaṇeśa Vighnarāja throws his lotus at him. Unable to bear the fragrance of the divine flower, the demon surrenders to Gaṇeśa."Egotism is 'characterized by an exaggerated estimate of one's intellect, ability, importance, appearance, wit, or other valued personal characteristics'[1] - is the drive to maintain and enhance favorable views of oneself.

'In egotism we find the person filled with an overweening sense of the importance and qualities of his personality...the things of the "Me"'[2]. Egotism means placing oneself at the center of one's world with no concern for others, including those loved or considered as "close", in any other terms except those set by the "egotist".


maybe it could be said that the ego and the infinite I are completely seperate ideas.
Ego being the reversal of infinite I which is I am. huh, interesting point I have made.

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Old 10-04-2011, 04:12 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by rakkoo View Post
I think you are all trying to be too clever with the word "EGO"

ive read many books from the 70s onwards about the ego, and theres realy no big idea on what the ego is, the books where writen by supposed great spychiatrist and profesors, but they didnt mean any thing, most say the ego is personality thats about all realy.

and now you are all talking a load of shit about ego, that dont make any sense or even come close to those books i read about ego and they where all friigin shit books.
You are referring to Freud's: ego, super ego, id.. this differs from the ego in the spiritual context..

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Old 10-04-2011, 04:41 AM   #30
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There for i ego
to be ego or not to be ego

i am ego

i am selfish to the core.

its all about me "ego"

here W ego again.

hugo we go he go allgo FUCK OFF.
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Old 10-04-2011, 09:42 AM   #31
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbnumba1 View Post
You are right that the world is in a very discordant state right now.
However, if you were to look at the cycles of history as a song, we would be
in the dissonant chord (quite a tense chord on its own) which then resolves
into to harmony
.
I hope you are right.

Quote:
What if there was no George Washington, wheres the proof?

There is more than one could expect in terms of historical records of a
person who lived so long ago. Nearly all historical scholars will agree that
there was a man named Jesus from Galilee.

The Bible is not just a religious book, it is also a historical document.
About Jesus,I will only reccomend you watch the film 'Zeitgeist'which explain some unpalatable truths about christianity.

Quote:
Where is your compassion for plant life??

Plants are just as alive as you and I, they grow towards the lights and
reach for water and other nourishment. Even broccoli screams when you
take it from the ground.
Vegetables are meant to be eaten,that is their purpose in creation,they have no nervous system,therefore they do not feel pain.There is no diet which causes zero harm,its about causing as little harm as possible.

My argument is that when a person is 'awakened' they feel boundless love,compassion,empathy for everyone.If its just an altered state and a sense of euphoria whats the use of it?

And good luck to the OP,who wrote:

Quote:
there's no fear, hate etc. just love, super reactivity to what is happening around me and love.... whatever I do is for the higher purpose
A sure sign something great is happening,thank you.
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Old 10-04-2011, 10:02 AM   #32
energi
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Originally Posted by wisdom_vessel View Post
It doesn't matter what 'I' (the vehicle)says or how 'I' say it... The semantics of it is pointless... "there is no feeling resonance throughout infinity"... This would imply 'feeling' and emotion... Awakening is not a sensation, it is a reality... The point is that 'I' am not an entity experiencing reality.. There is just NOW... period. the observer... period
Grab a hammer. Smash your finger(s). What happens? Can you feel anything at all if there's no fingers - or any hammer - to begin with?
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Old 10-04-2011, 10:04 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by verndewd View Post
for a person aligned to the universe you certainly get confused easilly.

I said the now is infinite not judging either way. You have had a point of clarity in your life, its not the end its the beginning of an entirely new process of redefining everything in your perception . So you just walked through the door, beyond it is a lot of hard work, if anything gets easy from this point its simply seeing energy in everything; transmution being into what you have seen can be incredibly difficult as exemplified by your assumption in this reply.

Youre not alone dewd, everyone who walked through the door has to work hard on transforming the internal.
+1000
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Old 10-04-2011, 10:25 AM   #34
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Quote:
Most people,
when critisized for being egocentric
Only find clever means
Of hiding it from others.
After a while
They fool even themselves.
They then take secret egocentric delight
In imagining themselves egoless.
Now, with me it is different!
I am truly egoless.
Like a lonely orphan marooned nowhere.
In my very exultant shout "I am egoless"
I lose my ego.
My ego remains
But it no longer belongs to me.
Quote:
Most people hate egotists.
They remind them of themselves.
I love egotists.
They remind me of me.
- Unknown
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Old 11-04-2011, 08:34 PM   #35
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the journey through the abyss of the egoic mind illusions is an important part indeed! i think this is what most people have to go through before the real awakening!


a question for the enlightened ones: could hints of paranoia and other so-called "mental disorders" be an expression for the ego rebelling against its annihilation, against the often overlooked fact that you are not the center of the universe?
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Old 11-04-2011, 08:41 PM   #36
verndewd
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Originally Posted by hierophant View Post
the journey through the abyss of the egoic mind illusions is an important part indeed! i think this is what most people have to go through before the real awakening!


a question for the enlightened ones: could hints of paranoia and other so-called "mental disorders" be an expression for the ego rebelling against its annihilation, against the often overlooked fact that you are not the center of the universe?
yeah
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:16 PM   #37
zsymon
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"A question for the enlightened ones?"..

Who here thinks he is enlightened, and why do you think that?

And if such person exists on this forum, what is your definition
of enlightenment?

For me, enlightenment simply means understanding. If you know
how a car engine works, then you are enlightened about the car
engine. If you suddenly get an idea for a painting, then you are
enlightened about a creative idea. If you suddenly understand
a spiritual lesson, then you are enlightened about that lesson.

Enlightenment simply means understanding something specific, I
don't see how enlightenment can be a spiritual state of existence.
Everyone has their own unique path, there is no absolute truth,
so how could enlightenment like that possibly exist?

Enlightenment presumes you've achieved absolute truth, but if
absolute truth doesn't exist, since everyone has their own truth,
then I don't see how enlightenment is anything more than just
another religious dogma, just like ascension and karma and sin,
fabricated to keep people in line and have them waste their time
achieving some non existent state of spiritual elevation over the
others on Earth, a search to make them feel superior over others
instead of fulfilling their purpose and walking their intended path
in the service of nature and mankind.

And how would anyone achieve this enlightenment? The human
mind uses a fraction of its capacity, its form is completely DNA
degenerated, or more accurately, stagnated.. Are you going to
read books to get enlightened, are you going to live in a buddhist
monastary, are you going to mess around with kundalini or with
kaballah or astral projection to get enlightened?

No man, enlightenment as a state of being elevated over others
does not exist in any form.

We don't need to become more than we are, we just need to go
back to who we really are, we just need to remember who we
are and what we can do.. break through the veil of amnesia and
awake from your spiritual, mental and emotional stasis. We don't
need to rise above others, we are all equal, we just need to get
back to being who we really are.

All these concepts about ascension, escaping the cycle of rebirth,
reaching enlightenment, cleansing your karma.. it is just fabricated
religious dogmas from India and other asian countries.. to keep us
stagnated spiritually and follow the paths of large groups, instead
of following your own unique path and listening to your own heart.

In the West they used the concepts of sin and hell and damnation
to keep people in line, fill them with guilt and shame and fear and
have them blame themselves for their suffering, and prevent them
from ever following what their heart told them, walking their own
path. Anyone following their own spiritual path was condemned
as a witch, tortured for days and then burned alive.

In the East they used the concepts of karma and ascension and
enlightenment for the same purpose, karma to get people stagnated
in feelings of guilt and shame and self-blame, ascension to get them
on a path that leads to nowhere, trying to escape the cycle of rebirth
even though the only way for a soul to learn is incarnation, meaning
no soul in existence will ever stop incarnating.. and enlightenment
to get people the desire to feel elevated above others through the
pulling of the ego energies.

This ego contest is often seen on this forum.. people think their truth
is absolute, and anyone who dares to disagree is in for a childish text
fight.

Someone writes something they strongly disagree with but that makes
a lot of sense, many people resonating with it, getting people to think:
"If that were true, it would mean I'm not very enlightened." So they'll
feel threatened and rain down insults and judgements and attacks to
try and defend their dented ego.. venting their anger about the doubt
that rose within themselves about their own beliefs, beliefs which they
though to be the absolute truth.

That's why there are so many conflicts here, so many insults flying
around. People read something that contradicts their beliefs, they will
feel threatened by it and write some nasty ass post to elevate their
ego again.

It's the same concept as a world of warcraft player getting killed by
another player, and then logging in to his alt and killing that player
over and over. All this conflict on this forum, just like on games, is
a pure ego fest.

One damaged ego fighting another damaged ego trying to restore its
ego back to what it was before.. and if that doesn't work, the conflict
escalates and the threat is locked or put in rants.

Enlightenment and ascension, they are just fabricated concepts to
appeal to your ego and draw you onto a path that leads to nowhere,
to a path where you seek to elevate yourself above others.. a path
that leads to nothing but conflict when it comes in contact with any
person that disagrees with your assumed absolute truth.

If I offend anyone with this post, then that just proves my point.

I don't understand how smart people, who rightfully see religion as
a control mechanism, fall into religious traps like karma, ascension
and enlightenment, like sin, stories about the law of attraction or
any other religious fabrication that's been served as spiritual truth.

Last edited by zsymon; 11-04-2011 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:56 PM   #38
hierophant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zsymon View Post
"A question for the enlightened ones?"..

Who here thinks he is enlightened, and why do you think that?

And if such person exists on this forum, what is your definition
of enlightenment?

For me, enlightenment simply means understanding. If you know
how a car engine works, then you are enlightened about the car
engine. If you suddenly get an idea for a painting, then you are
enlightened about a creative idea. If you suddenly understand
a spiritual lesson, then you are enlightened about that lesson.

Enlightenment simply means understanding something specific, I
don't see how enlightenment can be a spiritual state of existence.
Everyone has their own unique path, there is no absolute truth,
so how could enlightenment like that possibly exist?

Enlightenment presumes you've achieved absolute truth, but if
absolute truth doesn't exist, since everyone has their own truth,
then I don't see how enlightenment is anything more than just
another religious dogma, just like ascension and karma and sin,
fabricated to keep people in line and have them waste their time
achieving some non existent state of spiritual elevation over the
others on Earth, a search to make them feel superior over others
instead of fulfilling their purpose and walking their intended path
in the service of nature and mankind.

And how would anyone achieve this enlightenment? The human
mind uses a fraction of its capacity, its form is completely DNA
degenerated, or more accurately, stagnated.. Are you going to
read books to get enlightened, are you going to live in a buddhist
monastary, are you going to mess around with kundalini or with
kaballah or astral projection to get enlightened?

No man, enlightenment as a state of being elevated over others
does not exist in any form.

We don't need to become more than we are, we just need to go
back to who we really are, we just need to remember who we
are and what we can do.. break through the veil of amnesia and
awake from your spiritual, mental and emotional stasis. We don't
need to rise above others, we are all equal, we just need to get
back to being who we really are.

All these concepts about ascension, escaping the cycle of rebirth,
reaching enlightenment, cleansing your karma.. it is just fabricated
religious dogmas from India and other asian countries.. to keep us
stagnated spiritually and follow the paths of large groups, instead
of following your own unique path and listening to your own heart.

In the West they used the concepts of sin and hell and damnation
to keep people in line, fill them with guilt and shame and fear and
have them blame themselves for their suffering, and prevent them
from ever following what their heart told them, walking their own
path. Anyone following their own spiritual path was condemned
as a witch, tortured for days and then burned alive.

In the East they used the concepts of karma and ascension and
enlightenment for the same purpose, karma to get people stagnated
in feelings of guilt and shame and self-blame, ascension to get them
on a path that leads to nowhere, trying to escape the cycle of rebirth
even though the only way for a soul to learn is incarnation, meaning
no soul in existence will ever stop incarnating.. and enlightenment
to get people the desire to feel elevated above others through the
pulling of the ego energies.
well put, especially the last passage. the wheel never stops... but don't we awaken to the truth in every life, at least in moments of contemplative immersion or total devotion? i don't see a use in breaking out no more either. all you gotta do is to reconnect, to devote yourself to god's "lila". life purpose lived 100%!

with "the enlightened ones" i was referring to the op who claims to have achieved a state of consciousness like that.

for my ego, the darkest part of the awakening process was the feeling of inferiority i had from time to time, my mind going like i have lost grip and need to learn to play the game again while - in my perception - everyone else around me has figured it out intuitively.
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Old 12-04-2011, 04:29 AM   #39
ftil
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Quote:
Zsymon wrote:

"A question for the enlightened ones?"..

Who here thinks he is enlightened, and why do you think that?

And if such person exists on this forum, what is your definition
of enlightenment?

For me, enlightenment simply means understanding. If you know
how a car engine works, then you are enlightened about the car
engine. If you suddenly get an idea for a painting, then you are
enlightened about a creative idea. If you suddenly understand
a spiritual lesson, then you are enlightened about that lesson.

Enlightenment simply means understanding something specific, I
don't see how enlightenment can be a spiritual state of existence.
Everyone has their own unique path, there is no absolute truth,
so how could enlightenment like that possibly exist?

Enlightenment presumes you've achieved absolute truth, but if
absolute truth doesn't exist, since everyone has their own truth,
then I don't see how enlightenment is anything more than just
another religious dogma, just like ascension and karma and sin,
fabricated to keep people in line and have them waste their time
achieving some non existent state of spiritual elevation over the
others on Earth, a search to make them feel superior over others
instead of fulfilling their purpose and walking their intended path
in the service of nature and mankind.

And how would anyone achieve this enlightenment? The human
mind uses a fraction of its capacity, its form is completely DNA
degenerated, or more accurately, stagnated.. Are you going to
read books to get enlightened, are you going to live in a buddhist
monastary, are you going to mess around with kundalini or with
kaballah or astral projection to get enlightened?

No man, enlightenment as a state of being elevated over others
does not exist in any form.

We don't need to become more than we are, we just need to go
back to who we really are, we just need to remember who we
are and what we can do.. break through the veil of amnesia and
awake from your spiritual, mental and emotional stasis. We don't
need to rise above others, we are all equal, we just need to get
back to being who we really are.

All these concepts about ascension, escaping the cycle of rebirth,
reaching enlightenment, cleansing your karma.. it is just fabricated
religious dogmas from India and other asian countries.. to keep us
stagnated spiritually and follow the paths of large groups, instead
of following your own unique path and listening to your own heart.

In the West they used the concepts of sin and hell and damnation
to keep people in line, fill them with guilt and shame and fear and
have them blame themselves for their suffering, and prevent them
from ever following what their heart told them, walking their own
path. Anyone following their own spiritual path was condemned
as a witch, tortured for days and then burned alive.

In the East they used the concepts of karma and ascension and
enlightenment for the same purpose, karma to get people stagnated
in feelings of guilt and shame and self-blame, ascension to get them
on a path that leads to nowhere, trying to escape the cycle of rebirth
even though the only way for a soul to learn is incarnation, meaning
no soul in existence will ever stop incarnating.. and enlightenment
to get people the desire to feel elevated above others through the
pulling of the ego energies.

This ego contest is often seen on this forum.. people think their truth
is absolute, and anyone who dares to disagree is in for a childish text
fight.

Someone writes something they strongly disagree with but that makes
a lot of sense, many people resonating with it, getting people to think:
"If that were true, it would mean I'm not very enlightened." So they'll
feel threatened and rain down insults and judgements and attacks to
try and defend their dented ego.. venting their anger about the doubt
that rose within themselves about their own beliefs, beliefs which they
though to be the absolute truth.

That's why there are so many conflicts here, so many insults flying
around. People read something that contradicts their beliefs, they will
feel threatened by it and write some nasty ass post to elevate their
ego again.

It's the same concept as a world of warcraft player getting killed by
another player, and then logging in to his alt and killing that player
over and over. All this conflict on this forum, just like on games, is
a pure ego fest.

One damaged ego fighting another damaged ego trying to restore its
ego back to what it was before.. and if that doesn't work, the conflict
escalates and the threat is locked or put in rants.

Enlightenment and ascension, they are just fabricated concepts to
appeal to your ego and draw you onto a path that leads to nowhere,
to a path where you seek to elevate yourself above others.. a path
that leads to nothing but conflict when it comes in contact with any
person that disagrees with your assumed absolute truth.

If I offend anyone with this post, then that just proves my point.

I don't understand how smart people, who rightfully see religion as
a control mechanism, fall into religious traps like karma, ascension
and enlightenment, like sin, stories about the law of attraction or
any other religious fabrication that's been served as spiritual truth.


Thank you Zsymon for your post. You have a gift. You express yourself with such simplicity and ease. It is a pleasure to read. I wish I could do the same but I was born to talk!

It is interesting again to see how our roads are different and how we both have arrived to the same conclusion. I agree that enlightenment or ascension is another dogma. But it is a very smart way to keep people busy looking for something that can’t be attained. I view any dogma whether Eastern or Western as a way to keep us away from our feelings and intuition, therefore, from our inner guidance. The more people are detached from their feelings, the more they look outside of themselves for the answers, filling their minds with the promise of enlightenment. But if people can stop, get honest with themselves, and ask why they look for enlightenment they may discover that their lives are meaningless and empty and their hearts are hungry. I have seen many people who used spirituality as a form of addiction. But addiction can only work for a certain period of time and the feelings have to break through.

I agree that there is not absolute truth. People may have endless discussion whether the absolute truth exist or not but those discussions lead nowhere. But it provides a false sense of connection with people and a false sense of self importance. But how people can develop deeper connections with others, if they are detached from the core of who they are. I see it as a smart way to control us and keep us in misery. And the more unhappy people are, the more they control or fight with each other, and the more they look for any remedy to stop their pain, accepting any dogma or belief.
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Old 12-04-2011, 05:43 AM   #40
poorbutterfly
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Good thread. For me, alignment with the universe is being in the constant state of love and bliss which is cosmic truth (Higher Conciousness), everything else is cosmic ignorance/ fear (Lower Conciousness).
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