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Old 25-03-2010, 12:14 AM   #21
himitsunomiko
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That's why they call the studies of the Vedas science
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Old 25-03-2010, 04:07 AM   #22
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its very nice post and i agree. But i wish to ask , how one can know his weak/strong atributes given by the energies at birth.
I for 1 am not very social person . I know that. But again i know very little. I think it would help in self knowing process to actually know what kind of + and - u have tendenties to.
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Old 25-03-2010, 12:55 PM   #23
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Eeee...in Western "psychological" astrology you could tell challenges and points of ease in a person's make up by angular aspects between planets, but "hard" aspects can actually be strengths when properly channeled while "soft" ones can hinder you by making you too content and lazy. Such would be the orthodox answers and I've found them quite true by observation.

If you're interested I recommend astro.com. Gives you simple to do free charts.

I guess this is another point of departure between WA and vedic astrology. WA uses "tight orbs" for these angular aspects while vedic is loose with them.

I don't know how to do vedic, so maybe himitsunomiko can reccomend a similar site for beginners. I'd be curious to look deeper.
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Old 25-03-2010, 08:08 PM   #24
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This is a very good website for making your chart and finding out about the planetary affects...

www.astrosage.com
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Old 25-03-2010, 09:36 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unusual_suspect View Post
I'm having a break from it!
I wondered where your blog went; I enjoyed it BTW.

I agree that it gets ridiculous with all the different ways to cast a horoscope. I have tried a few different ways, and I tend to think they all give valuable and for the most part accurate information. I'm kinda stuck on the geocentric because it is the way I learned astrology, but heliocentric just seems right and I have been more interested in it lately. There don't seem to be any good books out there about it though. I have however seen a few heliocentric ephemeris books.

Robert Tkoch says this about the heliocentric method:

Heliocentric is Sun-centered, heart-centered, soul-centered. Geocentric is body-centered, ego-centered, personality-centered. The helio chart shows a clear view of everything, while the geo chart gives merely the illusory perspective of the perishable, ignorant ego. Although it may be useful to know exactly what nonsense the ego thinks, its thinking is always ultimately wrong.
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Old 25-03-2010, 09:44 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by fishonwheels View Post
What bothers me about vedic astrology is it seems very fatalisitic, as if you're at complete mercy of the cosmos. But I know too little about it so I won't go on.
I agree, I had a vedic reading once and I didn't like it one bit

I made me feel like what the OP is warning us about.

I have heard this explained in connection with the ancient caste system in India. Basically your life is severely restricted by your class and therefore your life is set and very predictable.
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Old 31-03-2010, 01:49 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by himitsunomiko View Post
This is a very good website for making your chart and finding out about the planetary affects...

www.astrosage.com
bookmarked for further research.

http://wiretap.area.com/Gopher/Libra.../Occult/gauq.1

Gauquelins' finding a statistically significant relationship between birth astrology and professions.

Opinions?

Last edited by fishonwheels; 31-03-2010 at 01:53 AM.
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Old 14-04-2010, 04:02 AM   #28
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Great thread, Tin. I have always felt astrology was off for me because I am supposedly a Leo, but have never felt like one and don't show the usual characteristics. However, I have come to realize that it is because my spirit is beginning to take more control over my physical. And the aspects (or whatever they're called) in my chart that deal with spirituality and the occult, emotions, etc. fit me to a tee. So, I believe my spirit chose my time of birth with certain aspects that would enable me to transcend those "typical" Leo qualities.
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Old 14-04-2010, 01:50 PM   #29
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I changed my starsign from gemeni
to pisces a few weeks ago,

I feel much better now.
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Old 14-04-2010, 07:26 PM   #30
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I've posted this before, I think. Agreed, TM, that your sun sign does not completely define you. There are other planets and their relation to each other, as well as the effects of the planetary energies on you as a person. I would beg to differ in that although I do think astrology applies in this universal matrix, not in our total being, that we do feel emotional and psychic effects as well. The daily horoscope posted may or may not fit for you; it's based on zero degrees of the sun sign. If you were born under later degrees then it will apply less. However, as an astrologer who has studied my own chart and that of others deeply, there's much to learn to improve ourselves and understand others. There's a field called evolutionary astrology which has room for personal evolution. For example, Scorpio has 3 forms it manifests as: 1) the scorpion, controlling, competitive, sexual, intense, loyal. 2) The snake, beginning to become wise, move around obstacles, find fluidity. 3) The phoenix, as anyone ruled by Pluto is almost forced to die to their old selves and transform. That's the highest manifestation of Scorpio. It's a really interesting and enlightening field. The more you learn in fact, the less you are limited...Love, angel
Astrology is a very old method of self-fulfilling prophecy.
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Old 15-04-2010, 02:52 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by theoriginalmurph View Post
Astrology is a very old method of self-fulfilling prophecy.
It can be, but that is not always the case.
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Old 15-04-2010, 03:20 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by sh3lly View Post
It can be, but that is not always the case.
Yes it is. Read a horoscope, choose to believe it, and so fulfill it, and then, because it came true, the faith in it is reinforced in order to repeat the cycle. So, what is the exception?


EDIT: Without knowing anything about me other than my birthday, 18 Feb. 1979, what can you say of me that isn't some vague thing where I'm supposed to alter my perceptions to fit?

Last edited by theoriginalmurph; 15-04-2010 at 03:22 AM.
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Old 15-04-2010, 04:36 AM   #33
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Self-fulfilling prophecies are either based on fact or making obvious statements About fact.


Indeed, all the signs themselves are the same.

if you were to make a reading for all signs on a specific date, you're in reality just making a compartmentalized reading on the day itself, not the different signs.


understand how the signs themselves interlock with each other, and you will understand the reason for this system, they're just parts of a whole.


this tends to be why you can read any of the horoscopes, and most should be generally relevant to yourself, your specific star-sign is just what you are predisposed toward, but they're all useful.


They're based on symmetrical mathematical properties of the closest celestial bodies, and causally, this cannot be counted as irrelevant, because nothing that occurs now, yesterday, or tomorrow occurs WITHOUT these objects having maintained their symmetries and orbits since the beginning of the solar system, and continuing to do so.


they are accurate, we experience their effects in different ways, but the differing ways themselves reflect the overall flow of direction.
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Old 15-04-2010, 05:28 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j35p3r4d0 View Post
Self-fulfilling prophecies are either based on fact or making obvious statements About fact.


Indeed, all the signs themselves are the same.

if you were to make a reading for all signs on a specific date, you're in reality just making a compartmentalized reading on the day itself, not the different signs.


understand how the signs themselves interlock with each other, and you will understand the reason for this system, they're just parts of a whole.


this tends to be why you can read any of the horoscopes, and most should be generally relevant to yourself, your specific star-sign is just what you are predisposed toward, but they're all useful.


They're based on symmetrical mathematical properties of the closest celestial bodies, and causally, this cannot be counted as irrelevant, because nothing that occurs now, yesterday, or tomorrow occurs WITHOUT these objects having maintained their symmetries and orbits since the beginning of the solar system, and continuing to do so.


they are accurate, we experience their effects in different ways, but the differing ways themselves reflect the overall flow of direction.
So, what you're saying is, a person should twist and distort their perception to fit every horoscope in the paper, not just the one? Yeah, well, I'm still not convinced. I will say astrology provides for excellent methods of collaboration and timing things out over time and distances, but at any given time, I can pick any passage from any book at random, and it be as relevant as any horoscope. It's the power of suggestion, and it requires a certain amount of gullibility. Mysticism is great, but...
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Old 15-04-2010, 05:44 AM   #35
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So, what you're saying is, a person should twist and distort their perception to fit every horoscope in the paper, not just the one?
No, thats an assumption you've made based on your negative viewpoint.

What i was saying is that they are all relevant to you, because all they do is breakdown the perception of what is occurring causally that specific day (for instance), for each sign, in reference to their personal significance regarding those individual signs

this influences them all, and so they all reflect this mean status, slightly differently. The basis for this reflection is the overall situation celestially, which has been studied for thousands of years, so realistically any modern additions are just that, additions, upon a long standing cypher of referential significance.

You must think this is an effort to control you, and if so you're mistaken, it's just the harmony of spheres, and the symphony of the local universe. It's not some mystical thing, it's physically comprehensible.


Quote:
Yeah, well, I'm still not convinced.
Most likely because you wish to resist your acceptance of it due to some ideological basis.


Quote:
I will say astrology provides for excellent methods of collaboration and timing things out over time and distances, but at any given time, I can pick any passage from any book at random, and it be as relevant as any horoscope. It's the power of suggestion, and it requires a certain amount of gullibility.

indeed, picking any random event in your life as relevant to yourself would be just as plausible, simply because YOU perceive it. It's not suggestion, it's being observant perceptively.

edit: (lying, aka deception, and thus the concept of 'gullibility' is not a natural state of affairs for causal reality)

If you were to be Given something to perceive, it would be suggested TO you, but since you make these efforts of your own, through choice of your own viewpoint.... Who is making the suggestions? The world around you.

Mysticism IS great, Being perceptive is even better, and being so perceptive as to be able to personally verify what you see and experience is even better still, because truthfully no-one can do this for you, and you can not generally purvey this to anyone else anyway.


I understand your viewpoint, and i don't dismiss it, but it's not conclusive.

whereas stating that astrology "provides for excellent methods of collaboration and timing things out over time and distances" IS, so much so that it branches over your own acceptance of that fact.

It's all just referential particles, nothing is irrelevant to anything else.

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Old 15-04-2010, 05:54 AM   #36
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being able to apply a given situation to yourself can be hard, as not everything is readily interpretable, so this effort can in fact require skill of perception, and flexibility of reference.

You just need to be able to see WHY it is relevant to yourself, there's no twisting involved, you're just assuming fate will slap you upside the head with a block-lettered placard that states the obvious.

use your creativity.
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Old 15-04-2010, 05:59 AM   #37
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Horoscopes = BS.


Astrological Signs = Absolutely True.



People really are tied to their Sign, and personality traits are definitely accurate.

I don't even debate that with people. But I will gladly agree that horoscopes are bunk.
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Old 15-04-2010, 06:10 AM   #38
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if you're reading a star-sign based on accurately calculated horoscopes...


they're the same thing, You silly silly person.

star signs are the personality types DEFINED BY astrology, aka the basis of horoscopes./


Not worth debating, Not at all......
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Old 15-04-2010, 08:20 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by j35p3r4d0 View Post
...star signs are the personality types DEFINED BY astrology, aka the basis of horoscopes...
You said it yourself, DEFINED BY astrology, that is, totally arbitrary and subject to the whims of the astrologer who defines the astrology. On that basis, it is not empirical. Now, I don't think it is an attempt to control me, but I do find it is counter-intuitive. See, I don't dispute the validity of the astrology for those who believe in it, and I'll even go so far as to say astrology is far superior to the science of psychology when it comes to determining personality traits simply because of the fact that it has a more holistic approach to things, but it still relies upon certain pre-conceived notions and basic assumptions.

Of course, I'm probably being unfair debating this because ultimately, I have no desire to talk you out of your beliefs. Why do people argue, right? I wouldn't bother if I wasn't interested in learning about these things, no? I have good cause, as well. Honestly, I'm still waiting for a response about the specific date I mentioned earlier in this thread.

You're smart, I can tell, so perhaps you can see how I might be doing with this thread what I might be accusing others of doing with their horoscopes...
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Old 15-04-2010, 10:32 PM   #40
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I used to think astrology was bunk because nothing about "Leos" - my sign - seemed to fit me. It was only when I started looking at the aspects and other influences that it seemed to fit me accurately. Way accurately, actually. It's not something I'm going to argue about. You can't make someone believe something they don't want to or doesn't interest them. For me, it is not "self-fulfilling" because when I researched it, I could care less about it being true. I was actually ready to dismiss it, as I had because none of the information fit me. I was quite genuinely surprised when I found those areas tucked into the placements in my chart that seemed to truly define who I am in this incarnation. So I'm going to take it because it works for me.
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