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Old 04-07-2009, 10:28 AM   #1
michael christopher
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Default Prove Jesus existed.

Here is your chance to offer actual evidence as to the existence of Jesus Christ.

The Bible is not evidence of his existence.

Care to get started, anyone?

BTW, I will not respond to fallacious arguments such as "If you weren't alive 2000 years ago, how can you say he didn't exist?"

The burden of proof is not on me. I am not the one making the claim that Jesus existed in spite of virtually no credible evidence.

Provide me actual testimonies of people who lived at the time that can be VERIFIED as AUTHENTIC DOCUMENTS, although I suppose that can be hard in this day and age when the Catholic Church has fabricated so many documents, many of them included in the New Testament. Still, I'll take whatever evidence I can get, as long as it's actual evidence, and not just some BS fallacy designed to trick people into believing in something they really should have no intellectual reason to believe in. So no mind-fucks. No mind-games. I know that's asking for a lot in a post about Jesus, but I'll see what I can get (I expect to be disappointed, I hope I'm wrong).
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:41 AM   #2
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This post reminds me of the professor in the 70s - can't remember his name - who challenged the Christian religion to prove that theirs is not the God of War.

No one did.

And the wars go on.
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:43 AM   #3
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I don't really care if he did or not but anyone that turns water into wine is sound in my book

But why does he upset you so much? You're constantly bitching about it in various threads.

I am sure having reading many of your previous posts you're a believer in reptilians, alien dna, ascension, alternative dimensional realities and all that new age kind of fluff.

How about you apply the same logic your asking of the other religious types to your own personal belief system? Where's your proof?
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:50 AM   #4
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I don't really care if he did or not but anyone that turns water into wine is sound in my book

But why does he upset you so much? You're constantly bitching about it in various threads.

I am sure having reading many of your previous posts you're a believer in reptilians, alien dna, ascension, alternative dimensional realities and all that new age kind of fluff.

How about you apply the same logic your asking of the other religious types to your own personal belief system? Where's your proof?
Well...

- I don't believe in physical reptilians or aliens until I see them
- Dunno about alien DNA until I have some evidence, which none exists
- ascension only happens on a personal level
- alternative dimensional realities exist according to scientists, so it's not fluff

Jesus doesn't upset me. People lying about Jesus do upset me. I guess I shouldn't let it bother me that people go around proclaiming something that they have never even bothered to research themselves is an inescapable fact, and the only method through which to reach heaven (and it's obvious when you talk to anyone who believes in Jesus that they have done very little actual research).

It is a disgusting lie to go around telling everyone if they don't believe what you believe they are going to go to hell, when in fact the very person spreading the lie has NO evidence him/herself that Jesus was ever even a real person.

So I'm saying to these hate-spreaders, go ahead and prove that Christ was real. If you really want to threaten people with hell and damnation, could you first please prove your credibility?
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:11 AM   #5
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You can't prove what didn't exist, no matter how hard you try. Faith is the word used to cover up such a blatant lie. With faith in place you can literally beLIEve anything!
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:13 AM   #6
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I think you're way over generalising here and using loaded language. Of the christians I know none of them "go around telling everyone if they don't believe what [they] believe they are going to go to hell", nor are they "hate-spreaders".

The complete opposite infact - loving, kind, generous, well meaning, helpful...

Maybe you're confusing the fundamentalists and power mongers who hijack such religions for there own nefarious ends rather than the believers. They are your real enemies rather than the followers who you're having a poke at.

All religions (IMO) are just a form of control or politics by the back door. The same for the new age religion which I have a sneeky suspicion, you are an advocate of.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:13 AM   #7
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You can't prove what didn't exist, no matter how hard you try. Faith is the word used to cover up such a blatant lie. With faith in place you can literally beLIEve anything!
No, you can't prove something that didn't exist, but it's certainly fun to watch people try.

I am still open-minded however. If I were to see a number of extra-Biblical accounts of Jesus' existence, which I already know through personal research most likely do not exist, then perhaps I might be convinced.

In fact I don't even know what proof could be offered. There is no evidence nor reason to believe in Jesus Christ outside of personal insecurity.

Maybe I'll get some shroud of Turin posts, or a demonstrably forged document relating to some experience someone supposedly had with Jesus 2000 years ago that predates the Catholic Church.

I doubt many of the pro-Jesus people will actually even go so far as to offer shaky evidence, since I doubt any evidence will be offered at all.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:17 AM   #8
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I think you're way over generalising here and using loaded language. Of the christians I know none of them "go around telling everyone if they don't believe what [they] believe they are going to go to hell", nor are they "hate-spreaders".

The complete opposite infact - loving, kind, generous, well meaning, helpful...

Maybe you're confusing the fundamentalists and power mongers who hijack such religions for there own nefarious ends rather than the believers. They are your real enemies rather than the followers who you're having a poke at.

All religions (IMO) are just a form of control or politics by the back door. The same for the new age religion which I have a sneeky suspicion, you are an advocate of.
I am not an advocate of the "new age religion" but if you wish to continue to throw things like that into your responses to me, you should certainly feel free to do so, as they reveal the way your mind works for everyone else here.

I belong to no dogma or religion or way of beliefs and most "new age" people would take issue with many of the truths I have come to understand.

Also I am not overgeneralizing at all. If you are a Christian, part of your belief is that Jesus Christ is the only method through which "salvation" can be achieved. This is a dangerous lie to go around telling the insecure and ignorant, as it makes them your slaves if you are a Christian sheep-herder, of which there appear to be quite a few on this forum.

"Love" is not true love when you're subtly or overtly threatened with torment for denying it. The "love" espoused by Jesus worshipers is love that was corralled out of them with threats of eternal damnation, and they spread these malicious ideas through their constant unfounded lies about Jesus being a real person. If you can't even prove Jesus was a real person, why go around telling people he is the only path to salvation?

In fact, eyepod, you seem to have a problem with this post, which you could very easily ignore.

Is it so bad for me to ask for proof of Jesus existence when so many people on this board tell me I'll go to hell if I don't believe in him?

I'm sorry, I'm just making this post based on my own thoughts and observations. If you have a problem with that, there are a million other threads to go bother people for not believing in Jesus in.

It's very simple, really. If someone can make a claim that Jesus was a real human being, then I can ask them to prove it, which I am doing right now. If you can't understand how that works, then maybe you need to re-evaluate how you come to conclusions.

EDIT: It's quite clear to me that your argument in this thread is a distortion. Unless you have some proof to offer as to the existence of Jesus Christ, eyepod, what is the point in your response aside from to attack my credibility while ignoring the validity of my question?

"It's so easy to see through..."
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:35 AM   #9
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they reveal the way your mind works for everyone else here
I love internet psychologists and their ability to diagnose people remotely based on some text on a internet forum

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Originally Posted by michael christopher View Post
In fact, eyepod, you seem to have a problem with this post, which you could very easily ignore.
I don't have a problem with it. I suppose it's partly an over spill from the Zeitgeist thread. Like I mentioned in that thread - there must be at least 4 billion+ religious people on earth, many of them, even non-christians believe in the Jesus thing. Why are you and Z seeking to alienate this group of people - wouldn't they be much more useful on your side? Your not going to get them sideing with you by trying to convince them their religion is a lie. I don't think the main stream religious people are your enemy.

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Is it so bad for me to ask for proof of Jesus existence when so many people on this board tell me I'll go to hell if I don't believe in him?
No nothing wrong with that. But you can apply the exact same logic to your own beliefs. You're believing certain people as faith without evidence, the same way christains are...

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I'm sorry, I'm just making this post based on my own thoughts and observations. If you have a problem with that, there are a million other threads to go bother people for not believing in Jesus in.
I live in a free-ish country still. I'll post my opinions where I like thank you

But I will shut-up now and leave your thread alone, I am sure the sycophants will be out in force to confirm your theories...That's what you're looking for?

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Old 04-07-2009, 11:38 AM   #10
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The only proof that is real proof is that which you experience yourself...

Can you 'prove' to me that Elvis Presley existed...

Sure there are a lot of songs that are said to be sung by 'Elvis Presley' but that isn't proof (given the perspective you have given on what proof is), sure you can take me to a grave and point to the words on the gravestone and say "see he's buried here" but that still isn't proof (given your definition) of his existence. And so on...

The problem here is that you are asking other people to try and change you and your opinions instead of searching for your own 'proofs' (not just for the existence of Jesus) yourself. Try it sometime.... AND maybe let others do the same(?)

PD.

Of course you could just be baiting for a long drawn out argument enabling you to troll to your hearts content. It wouldn't be the first time that it has happened in this part of the forum.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:42 AM   #11
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This post reminds me of the professor in the 70s - can't remember his name - who challenged the Christian religion to prove that theirs is not the God of War.

No one did.

And the wars go on.
Witches contend it's Jupiter.
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Old 04-07-2009, 03:08 PM   #12
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I love internet psychologists and their ability to diagnose people remotely based on some text on a internet forum
Yes, it's very easy when you read hundreds of their posts.

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I don't have a problem with it. I suppose it's partly an over spill from the Zeitgeist thread. Like I mentioned in that thread - there must be at least 4 billion+ religious people on earth, many of them, even non-christians believe in the Jesus thing. Why are you and Z seeking to alienate this group of people - wouldn't they be much more useful on your side? Your not going to get them sideing with you by trying to convince them their religion is a lie. I don't think the main stream religious people are your enemy.
Yeah, but that's beside the point. I'm not trying to get along with anyone. I'm asking a question. Do you have an answer? If not, don't bother responding making silly claims about how I'm part of some vague new-age religion.

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No nothing wrong with that. But you can apply the exact same logic to your own beliefs. You're believing certain people as faith without evidence, the same way christains are...
I'm not believing anything, I'm asking for evidence. Don't get it twisted.

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I live in a free-ish country still. I'll post my opinions where I like thank you
Go ahead, but you make a fool of yourself sometimes.

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But I will shut-up now and leave your thread alone, I am sure the sycophants will be out in force to confirm your theories...That's what you're looking for?
There is no way to confirm my theory, because I can't prove a negative. However, I can ask for evidence as to whether or not Jesus existed.

So far the only two outcomes are:

a) I'll never know if a human being named Jesus existed who elaborate myths have been built around
b) I'll know he did exist, provided I see some actual evidence in this thread.

Once again, stop getting it twisted.
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Old 04-07-2009, 03:11 PM   #13
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The only proof that is real proof is that which you experience yourself...

Can you 'prove' to me that Elvis Presley existed...

Sure there are a lot of songs that are said to be sung by 'Elvis Presley' but that isn't proof (given the perspective you have given on what proof is), sure you can take me to a grave and point to the words on the gravestone and say "see he's buried here" but that still isn't proof (given your definition) of his existence. And so on...

The problem here is that you are asking other people to try and change you and your opinions instead of searching for your own 'proofs' (not just for the existence of Jesus) yourself. Try it sometime.... AND maybe let others do the same(?)

PD.

Of course you could just be baiting for a long drawn out argument enabling you to troll to your hearts content. It wouldn't be the first time that it has happened in this part of the forum.
I'm not baiting for anything, I rarely respond to anyone on this forum and don't start my own posts very often. Your implication is obvious the result of some kind of threat to your ego made by my post, since I'm simply asking for evidence that Jesus Christ was a real human being, since so many people make the claim that he was and then condemn others to burn in hell for not accepting Jesus in spite of the fact that they've not done the slightest bit of research into whether or not he existed.

Just some evidence, that's all I'm asking for.

Anyone else wanna give it a try?
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Old 04-07-2009, 03:11 PM   #14
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Witches contend it's Jupiter.
That's what I think. Iesous does mean "Son of Zeus" in Greek afterall.

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Old 04-07-2009, 06:27 PM   #15
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Prove Jesus existed
Proposterous request.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psychicdefender View Post
The only proof that is real proof is that which you experience yourself...

Can you 'prove' to me that Elvis Presley existed...

Sure there are a lot of songs that are said to be sung by 'Elvis Presley' but that isn't proof (given the perspective you have given on what proof is), sure you can take me to a grave and point to the words on the gravestone and say "see he's buried here" but that still isn't proof (given your definition) of his existence. And so on...

The problem here is that you are asking other people to try and change you and your opinions instead of searching for your own 'proofs'.
Agreed. Subjective experience is personal, and since theres no difference between the objective and subjective it has to be done on ones own.

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Originally Posted by michael christopher View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by psychicdefender View Post
The only proof that is real proof is that which you experience yourself...

Can you 'prove' to me that Elvis Presley existed...

Sure there are a lot of songs that are said to be sung by 'Elvis Presley' but that isn't proof (given the perspective you have given on what proof is), sure you can take me to a grave and point to the words on the gravestone and say "see he's buried here" but that still isn't proof (given your definition) of his existence. And so on...

The problem here is that you are asking other people to try and change you and your opinions instead of searching for your own 'proofs' (not just for the existence of Jesus) yourself. Try it sometime.... AND maybe let others do the same(?)

PD.

Of course you could just be baiting for a long drawn out argument enabling you to troll to your hearts content. It wouldn't be the first time that it has happened in this part of the forum.
I'm not baiting for anything, I rarely respond to anyone on this forum and don't start my own posts very often. Your implication is obvious the result of some kind of threat to your ego made by my post, since I'm simply asking for evidence that Jesus Christ was a real human being, since so many people make the claim that he was and then condemn others to burn in hell for not accepting Jesus in spite of the fact that they've not done the slightest bit of research into whether or not he existed.

Just some evidence, that's all I'm asking for.

Anyone else wanna give it a try?
I know you may label this as post pointless but then again, I'm not here looking for approval.

I cant say that he existed or not and quite frankly I dont care either way. The glaringly obvious point being missed here is that it's the teachings and not the teacher that matters -though granted, many of them have been so overgrown with misdirection its difficult for many to sort out truth from falsehood.

Regarding both your post above to "PD" and the thread question in general though, you may want to look at why you've asked this question in the first place. I could be wrong(as I dont know you personally -which going by your posts in unfortunate), but it very much seems to me that your own ego investment is "wanting to be right" which itself stems from a sense of insecurity.

Be careful, the "ego" by use of the mind can bury almost anything -especially our own motives.
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:38 PM   #16
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I can't prove anything ever BUT I believe he did. I have faith.It's a choice.

the kingdom of heaven = evolution of consciousness hell= resistance to any evolution.?????

The bible stories/miracles/parables are literal and/or allegorical and/or symbolic.

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Old 04-07-2009, 06:40 PM   #17
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Here is your chance to offer actual evidence as to the existence of Jesus Christ.

The Bible is not evidence of his existence.

Care to get started, anyone?

BTW, I will not respond to fallacious arguments such as "If you weren't alive 2000 years ago, how can you say he didn't exist?"

The burden of proof is not on me. I am not the one making the claim that Jesus existed in spite of virtually no credible evidence.

Provide me actual testimonies of people who lived at the time that can be VERIFIED as AUTHENTIC DOCUMENTS, although I suppose that can be hard in this day and age when the Catholic Church has fabricated so many documents, many of them included in the New Testament. Still, I'll take whatever evidence I can get, as long as it's actual evidence, and not just some BS fallacy designed to trick people into believing in something they really should have no intellectual reason to believe in. So no mind-fucks. No mind-games. I know that's asking for a lot in a post about Jesus, but I'll see what I can get (I expect to be disappointed, I hope I'm wrong).
I see it this way
we only have a few peoples words on it in a book .

same goes for America .

Ihave never seen America .
some say it is a country whilst I have never been out of Britain .

How do I know it exists ?

all the media/books/tv/ maps------------are only someone elses words and pictures ,

this doesnt prove to me it exists ---------however
if someone is willing to dragg the country of America to britain and just park it outside my front door i might believe it exists .

until then
America/Japan/russia/norway/ china and jesus

are not real !
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:49 PM   #18
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I think they found his spoon
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:51 PM   #19
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Proposterous request.
It's no more preposterous than claiming that Jesus did exist. Stop acting as though I have no right to ask such a question when the idea that Jesus was a real figure is jammed down my throat every day by the media and nearly every denizen of the country. I am well within my rights to ask people to provide evidence for their claims, particularly when they also have the arrogance to claim that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation.

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Agreed. Subjective experience is personal, and since theres no difference between the objective and subjective it has to be done on ones own.
You're being facetious. Neither the Bible nor Christians claim that Jesus' life on earth was a subjective experience. It is proclaimed to be an objective truth, hence my desire for evidence. Sorry.

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I know you may label this as post pointless but then again, I'm not here looking for approval.
Neither am I. I am looking for evidence pertaining to the existence of the Biblical Jesus Christ.

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I cant say that he existed or not and quite frankly I dont care either way. The glaringly obvious point being missed here is that it's the teachings and not the teacher that matters -though granted, many of them have been so overgrown with misdirection its difficult for many to sort out truth from falsehood.
I never took issue with the teachings of Jesus. I took issue with the idea that he was an actual person and not merely an archetypal symbol, and I also took issue with the thought deriving from this belief that faith in Jesus Christ is the only path to salvation. Such an astonishing claim to make considering no evidence even exists that Jesus Christ was a real person, don't you think? Yes, it's funny you proclaim me arrogant and egotistical for asking this question, but you are the one attacking me for asking it without even providing any sort of real answer.

Quote:
Regarding both your post above to "PD" and the thread question in general though, you may want to look at why you've asked this question in the first place. I could be wrong(as I dont know you personally -which going by your posts in unfortunate), but it very much seems to me that your own ego investment is "wanting to be right" which itself stems from a sense of insecurity.
I don't want to be right. I just want someone to give me the tiniest shred of evidence that Jesus Christ was a real person. So far, 17 replies and not one shred of evidence. I bet this will trend well.

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Be careful, the "ego" by use of the mind can bury almost anything -especially our own motives.
Take a look in the mirror, buddy.
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:52 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by psychicdefender View Post
The only proof that is real proof is that which you experience yourself...

Can you 'prove' to me that Elvis Presley existed...

Sure there are a lot of songs that are said to be sung by 'Elvis Presley' but that isn't proof (given the perspective you have given on what proof is), sure you can take me to a grave and point to the words on the gravestone and say "see he's buried here" but that still isn't proof (given your definition) of his existence. And so on...

The problem here is that you are asking other people to try and change you and your opinions instead of searching for your own 'proofs' (not just for the existence of Jesus) yourself. Try it sometime.... AND maybe let others do the same(?)

PD.

Of course you could just be baiting for a long drawn out argument enabling you to troll to your hearts content. It wouldn't be the first time that it has happened in this part of the forum.
It could be easily solved by changing the thread title to "Give evidence Jesus lived."

Last edited by supertzar; 04-07-2009 at 06:52 PM.
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