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Old 13-04-2012, 01:26 PM   #1
britishnick
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Default 5 years not paying council tax

from http://www.newstruth.co.uk/council-t...-unlawful-tax/

Council Tax, Your First Port Of Call In Stopping This Unlawful Tax

OK, you have probably found this page because your back is against the wall regarding council tax and you do not know what to do. It is time to get off your big booty and learn how to deal with these bureaucrats who actually believe, in their common purpose minds, that they have the right to tax us for a roof over our heads!

Is the Council Tax legal? Yes it is as it an act of parliament Council Tax England And Wales contains the base law for England and Wales and for Scotland Council Tax Scotland on this.

Say no to council tax and get off of your arse and do something about it.

I have not paid this council tax for five years and I never intend to pay it despite their continual demands to pay it. It is legal to ask me for it as this tax is backed by statutes and acts. It is however unlawful to request payment when no contract exists or bill is issued for services. I question everything, I have always been like this and I make no apology for asking questions. Through questioning everything I have learned so much. I would not say that I am Freeman nor a Sovereign, I cannot describe myself to the powers that be, all I say to them is that I am not playing no more and that I am taking my ball home with me.

If you look at a Council Tax statement or invoice it will be threatening in manner and it will never mention the word bill. If you owe someone or a corporation any money for services rendered then they will always send a bill, you do not have to pay anyone or “thing” any monies unless presented with a bill.

So let us start at how to deal with the initial letter, the one that says you owe £1277 for year 2011-2012. What do I do?

Firstly I will write back to them and politely ask why they are demanding monies from me when I have no contract with them to provide any services.

I await their response which is normally blah blah blah under section blah of the blah act I must pay them what they ask. Oh fucking really says I! And so they get a letter back stating that there is no contract and that I do not recognise their statutes. This is nice, as it then gets handed to their legal department, this is where the fun starts!

Once the legal department writes back it is then amazing that respect is actually shown, they know that I am calling them out on their scam. A typical legal section letter will also contain threats of legal action, going to court and possible imprisonment. They can bluster all they wish with their threats, I have nothing to lose apart from maybe a wee bit of dignity. As such, I send a letter back to the legal department of conditional acceptance to the claim that they wish to make against me, this will contain many “upon proof” clauses, this means that they must rebut (ie answer) those “upon proofs” as an example some could be:

Upon proof that you have juridiction over me?

Upon proof that I am subject to statutes and acts?

Upon proof that I am liable to be taxed by a Local Authority.

The list is endless, but by using this route I have found that they back off pretty sharply.

If they do not back off then their next approach will be a final demand. Do not ignore this, write back to them with a copy of your conditional acceptance upon proof letter/notice. Keep copies of everything you send to them and always send registered post, check online using the tracking number and print the page as to who signed for any letter you sent.

Once all of this has happened then it is time to send them a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act 1998 in the UK. Any company or organisation in the UK and Ireland has a duty to protect the data that they have gathered on any person/subject/customer. They must hold an approved Data Protection Registration and be fit and proper people to gain such a registration. They must also have a Data Controller in place to oversee the policies and make sure that they adhere to the principles of the Data Protection Act 1998.

So, how do you do a SAR? It is quite simple to copmile a SAR, all you have to do is type one up or write a simple letter using a pen and paper (old fashioned way). I will show you a brief template but you MUST amend it or write your own in a unique fashion.

Making a Subject Access Request letter



(Insert own address)

(Insert date)



(Insert organisation address)



To the company secretary (if contact unknown),



Re: (insert name and current address)



I am writing to make a subject access request under the Data Protection Act 1998 for any personal information you hold about me (or include specific details about the information you require here).



(Insert any information you think the organisation will need to find your information and to confirm your identity. For example, your employer may need your payroll number, and a hospital may need your NHS number; other organisations may require a document bearing your signature for example your passport or your driving licence).



Please inform me, prior to processing this request, if you require a fee to be paid.



I will look forward to receiving this information within 40 days. If you have any queries or questions then please contact me on (insert phone number/email address).





Yours faithfully,





(Insert own name)

This must be sent by registered mail and signed for. They have forty days to complete the request in full and they may not charge more than £10 in the UK.

Once you receive the Subject Access Request, then it is time to play. Whatever they send you then challenge it all. It stops them

Try it and see what happens! I have linked to another article on this site regarding Liability Orders, hope it helps.
http://www.callmeacunt.co.uk/?p=93
http://www.newstruth.co.uk/what-is-a...eal-with-them/
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Last edited by britishnick; 13-04-2012 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 13-04-2012, 02:17 PM   #2
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And what happens if they finally get around to taking you to court? Isn't there a long history of the courts supporting the right to collect council tax against a person's will?

It seems to me like this plan basically consists of refusing to pay and hoping they don't get around to taking you to court, but with a bunch of extra work added in the form of writing various letters.
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Old 13-04-2012, 02:21 PM   #3
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Your own address goes on the right hand side
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Old 13-04-2012, 04:17 PM   #4
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If anyone was on Council tax benefit that would be an impossibility surely?
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Old 14-04-2012, 11:33 AM   #5
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Ich Dien, German for I serve, and the coat of arms ?

You really can't get the staff anymore can you ?
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Old 14-04-2012, 11:41 AM   #6
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britishnick, have YOU, YOU PERSONALLY tried this?

dont bring up balonie stories, unsourced, with no names and proof.

if you believe in this, do it yourself.
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Old 14-04-2012, 12:19 PM   #7
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Well, it's so nice to see that so many people support the overhanded oppression of gt agencies in creating laws and then imprisoning people for not adhering to their word.

In other countries where gvt overbearing power is applied to the people, it is called a dictatorship, but seemingly because we get to scribble on pieces of paper every four years that makes it all somewhat different.

The enforcement of law once again removes a persons liberty, despite the person causing no other harm - purely because they say they have the right.

They have the right to steal a mans life? which is effectively what they are doing - they are taking away five years of this mans life because he didn't abide to their word, and what is sadly laughable is that the larger proportion of posters so far feel that is right, the mark of a fair and equal society.

Perhaps if the act was ratified and people paid a proportionate amount decided through usage and application of service, that would be a fairer system to apply, but as it is the current system is massively flawed in favor of the system.

And that that system received support is sad given that people are suffering for the lack of support against it.

Many households in the UK can not afford council tax. Yet somewhere they have to find the money.

The system creates debt - it elicits a bill against the person, and where the person can not afford that bill, costs are added, bailiffs are charged with collection and the person extends to living in fear of the system that enforces his drive to debt - and beyond that imprisons the person for not paying a debt that was forced upon him.
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Old 14-04-2012, 01:40 PM   #8
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I have to ask why on earth would anybody believe submitting a Subject Access Request to a local authority will somehow stop them in their tracks?
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Old 14-04-2012, 02:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merlincove View Post
Well, it's so nice to see that so many people support the overhanded oppression of gt agencies in creating laws and then imprisoning people for not adhering to their word.
It's nice to see that:
(a) While you don't like council tax, you haven't actually said anything about OP's proposed method to avoid paying it.
(b) That you apparently support the freeloading of people who try to wriggle out of paying council tax.

Quote:
In other countries where gvt overbearing power is applied to the people, it is called a dictatorship, but seemingly because we get to scribble on pieces of paper every four years that makes it all somewhat different.
Er no. That is not what 'dictatorship' means. A dictatorship is where there is one supreme authority with the power to make law and control conduct through force. Scribbling on pieces of paper every four years as you put it is something that a considerable number of your ancestors fought and died to achieve and which a good many genuinely oppressed people in the world are still fighting for.

Quote:
The enforcement of law once again removes a persons liberty, despite the person causing no other harm - purely because they say they have the right.
Its odd that you say this and then go on to argue that council tax might be appropriate if it were in your view 'fairer' and 'ratified'. I think that the two are mutually exclusive. Either taxation is always wrong because to enforce taxation is to punish those how have caused no harm, or there is some way in which taxes can be sufficiently 'fair' that they can be enforced.

Quote:
They have the right to steal a mans life? which is effectively what they are doing - they are taking away five years of this mans life because he didn't abide to their word, and what is sadly laughable is that the larger proportion of posters so far feel that is right, the mark of a fair and equal society.
Has anyone ever served five years for avoiding council tax? And suppose that the majority of posters also reflect the majority of society at large. Does that not mean that, in a democratic society, council tax is fine, because it is supported by the majority.

Quote:
Perhaps if the act was ratified and people paid a proportionate amount decided through usage and application of service, that would be a fairer system to apply, but as it is the current system is massively flawed in favor of the system.
If you're proposing a revenue neutral change to the way council tax is worked out, which merely redistributes the tax burden based on some measure of usage, then the tax is exactly the same with respect to 'the system'. the burden is just spread out differently among people.
There are some inherent problems in trying to make council tax usage based. The first is that some usage is almost impossible to measure - road use for example, unless you would be happy with the local council tracking the movements of your car. Similarly, increasing the tax burden on those who 'use' police services would in my view be unfair, because those who call the police are likely to have just suffered some other loss, such as burglary. It hardly seems right to tax them more because they were victimized.

Quote:
And that that system received support is sad given that people are suffering for the lack of support against it.
There are people suffering for not paying council tax.
Quote:
Many households in the UK can not afford council tax. Yet somewhere they have to find the money.
The UK, more than many other countries provides an extensive social safety net. If you are genuine impoverished there are a whole variety of benefits you can claim, including council tax. If there are people who despite all this and through no fault of their own cannot pay, then I would say that it is sad that more people do not support a local income tax, in place of council tax.

Quote:
The system creates debt - it elicits a bill against the person, and where the person can not afford that bill, costs are added, bailiffs are charged with collection and the person extends to living in fear of the system that enforces his drive to debt - and beyond that imprisons the person for not paying a debt that was forced upon him.
Yes, collecting taxes by force is unpleasant, but how else can they be collected?
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Old 14-04-2012, 03:09 PM   #10
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just been announced that in ne lincs here 8000 people havnt paid it from 2011, they are concerned and asked why so many, the people responded saying they cant afford it and are spending it more on food and utilities ...

interesting radio broardcast...
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Old 14-04-2012, 03:40 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merlincove View Post
Well, it's so nice to see that so many people support the overhanded oppression of gt agencies in creating laws and then imprisoning people for not adhering to their word.

In other countries where gvt overbearing power is applied to the people, it is called a dictatorship, but seemingly because we get to scribble on pieces of paper every four years that makes it all somewhat different.

The enforcement of law once again removes a persons liberty, despite the person causing no other harm - purely because they say they have the right.

They have the right to steal a mans life? which is effectively what they are doing - they are taking away five years of this mans life because he didn't abide to their word, and what is sadly laughable is that the larger proportion of posters so far feel that is right, the mark of a fair and equal society.

Perhaps if the act was ratified and people paid a proportionate amount decided through usage and application of service, that would be a fairer system to apply, but as it is the current system is massively flawed in favor of the system.

And that that system received support is sad given that people are suffering for the lack of support against it.

Many households in the UK can not afford council tax. Yet somewhere they have to find the money.

The system creates debt - it elicits a bill against the person, and where the person can not afford that bill, costs are added, bailiffs are charged with collection and the person extends to living in fear of the system that enforces his drive to debt - and beyond that imprisons the person for not paying a debt that was forced upon him.
He has not been given 5 years in jail, as I understand it, but is merely claiming to have refused to pay his council tax bill for 5 years now.

I agree with you when you say that "the system creates debt," yes it does. Individuals add to that debt by way of their own desires and greed, but even without that, the system creates debt from nothing and for nothing, as you point out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bones View Post
just been announced that in ne lincs here 8000 people havnt paid it from 2011, they are concerned and asked why so many, the people responded saying they cant afford it and are spending it more on food and utilities ...

interesting radio broardcast...
If the UK government continues to steal money by way of tax on diesel and petrol, then this mass inability to pay council tax does not surprise me at all. It will, sooner or later, be inevitable on a much larger scale.
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Last edited by iq_145; 14-04-2012 at 03:42 PM. Reason: Added 'much larger'.
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Old 14-04-2012, 05:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
If you're proposing a revenue neutral change to the way council tax is worked out, which merely redistributes the tax burden based on some measure of usage, then the tax is exactly the same with respect to 'the system'. the burden is just spread out differently among people.
There are some inherent problems in trying to make council tax usage based. The first is that some usage is almost impossible to measure - road use for example, unless you would be happy with the local council tracking the movements of your car. Similarly, increasing the tax burden on those who 'use' police services would in my view be unfair, because those who call the police are likely to have just suffered some other loss, such as burglary. It hardly seems right to tax them more because they were victimized.
Also the burden if based on usage would fall on those who in all likelihood are least equipped to afford it - the sick and disabled and those with large families.
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Old 14-04-2012, 07:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aulus agerius View Post
It's nice to see that:
(a) While you don't like council tax, you haven't actually said anything about OP's proposed method to avoid paying it.
(b) That you apparently support the freeloading of people who try to wriggle out of paying council tax.
What i support is the ideal of people having a voice and being responsible for their own debts - to pay for what they use in a proportionate fashion, as i described in my last post

Quote:
Er no. That is not what 'dictatorship' means. A dictatorship is where there is one supreme authority with the power to make law and control conduct through force.
Just how the current system is structured then, yes?

The Gvt (the supreme authority) create Acts within law and then apply force through a system that they create to enforse those acts.

Quote:
Scribbling on pieces of paper every four years as you put it is something that a considerable number of your ancestors fought and died to achieve and which a good many genuinely oppressed people in the world are still fighting for.
And the Gvt make a mockerey of those rights that have been faught for by creating acts within law that oppress the very people they are in power to serve.
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Old 14-04-2012, 09:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merlincove View Post
What i support is the ideal of people having a voice and being responsible for their own debts - to pay for what they use in a proportionate fashion, as i described in my last post



Just how the current system is structured then, yes?

The Gvt (the supreme authority) create Acts within law and then apply force through a system that they create to enforse those acts.



And the Gvt make a mockerey of those rights that have been faught for by creating acts within law that oppress the very people they are in power to serve.
well said
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Old 14-04-2012, 10:08 PM   #15
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looking at your list, are they not all services? and since when did services become compulsory? also none of those services are worth the money where i live
If you can think of any sane way to make these services optional then I would love to hear it because that'd be damn incredible.

Honestly I'd totally be for Freemen opting out of police and fire protection, garbage collection, etc.

Scenarios like this, that's an ideal system, right?
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Old 14-04-2012, 10:13 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by firstworldproblems View Post
If you can think of any sane way to make these services optional then I would love to hear it because that'd be damn incredible.

Scenarios like this, that's an ideal system, right?
if i want to access a mobile phone service, i phone up/go to the shop/write a letter to the service provider expressing my desire to use their service, is this by your logic insane? or am i just damn incredible?

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Old 14-04-2012, 11:20 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by dontpushme View Post
if i want to access a mobile phone service, i phone up/go to the shop/write a letter to the service provider expressing my desire to use their service, is this by your logic insane? or am i just damn incredible?
With a mobile phone there is the element of forward knowledge of what your usage is likely to be.

Lets look for example at the fire brigade - there are a few options for financing such a service - first off a pay as you go sort of scenario - the expense would be prohibitive for most people - so if you cant afford it and firemen don't come out and put out the fire that was your house you put others houses or common areas at risk - a risk they too may not be able to afford to pay for in such a way.

You could ofc insure against fire - like the american health system - but that just feeds the unscrupulous insurance industry and you may never have a fire so you will have paid all that money for nothing and like with the above example there may be people who cannot afford the premiums.

Then there is the police - imagine the following example...


'Officer I would like to report a rape'

'Ok but I will have to warn you that each report costs £250 for the first consultation and then you can choose between our premier service which costs £500 per day with which you will get 3 assigned officers working on your case, a liason officer to keep you informed of whats happening and a telephone number to ring - a full rape kit will cost £1000 or our budget service which includes one officer spending an hour a day working on your case for £50, rape kit and support not included'

Or how about the nhs? we would see a similar thing as happens in america whereby patients who cannot cover the costs upfront are not treated.

Bin collections - what would there be to stop someone from just piling up rubbish and causing a health hazard to others?

All the services offered through the levying of council tax are services that ensure everyone receives a certain standard of service regardless of financial capability. Services which all of us access to some degree or other throughout our lives.

I am not saying that it is perfect or open not open to corruption - I am saying that I have not seen a viable alternative that offers the same service with as much equal access. I am all ears for suggestions though - particularly ones that dont rely on everyone suddenly becoming responsible respectful unselfish people.
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Old 14-04-2012, 11:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thoreau View Post
With a mobile phone there is the element of forward knowledge of what your usage is likely to be.

Lets look for example at the fire brigade - there are a few options for financing such a service - first off a pay as you go sort of scenario - the expense would be prohibitive for most people - so if you cant afford it and firemen don't come out and put out the fire that was your house you put others houses or common areas at risk - a risk they too may not be able to afford to pay for in such a way.

You could ofc insure against fire - like the american health system - but that just feeds the unscrupulous insurance industry and you may never have a fire so you will have paid all that money for nothing and like with the above example there may be people who cannot afford the premiums.

Then there is the police - imagine the following example...


'Officer I would like to report a rape'

'Ok but I will have to warn you that each report costs £250 for the first consultation and then you can choose between our premier service which costs £500 per day with which you will get 3 assigned officers working on your case, a liason officer to keep you informed of whats happening and a telephone number to ring - a full rape kit will cost £1000 or our budget service which includes one officer spending an hour a day working on your case for £50, rape kit and support not included'

Or how about the nhs? we would see a similar thing as happens in america whereby patients who cannot cover the costs upfront are not treated.

Bin collections - what would there be to stop someone from just piling up rubbish and causing a health hazard to others?

All the services offered through the levying of council tax are services that ensure everyone receives a certain standard of service regardless of financial capability. Services which all of us access to some degree or other throughout our lives.

I am not saying that it is perfect or open not open to corruption - I am saying that I have not seen a viable alternative that offers the same service with as much equal access. I am all ears for suggestions though - particularly ones that dont rely on everyone suddenly becoming responsible respectful unselfish people.
they are just excuses used to justify your belief system, human kind lasted a good few thousand years without 'dustbin men' , the 'nhs', the 'police', the 'fire service', and mobile phones for that matter. all of a sudden the human race can't exist without dustbin men? is this some kind of devolutionary regression of human dna that i missed out on?
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Old 14-04-2012, 11:36 PM   #19
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I'm guessing it would cost a few grand for a fire engine complete with crew and cutting equipment to attend a serious motor accident and to cut injured victims free. Maybe the fire crew should refuse to assist until the families of those trapped have stumped up the fee. Why should everyone else have to subsidise them? Or maybe we could just let them die? Why not?

Last edited by rumpelstilzchen; 14-04-2012 at 11:37 PM.
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Old 14-04-2012, 11:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dontpushme View Post
they are just excuses used to justify your belief system, human kind lasted a good few thousand years without 'dustbin men' , the 'nhs', the 'police', the 'fire service', and mobile phones for that matter. all of a sudden the human race can't exist without dustbin men? is this some kind of devolutionary regression of human dna that i missed out on?
I agree. The better off areas would continue to pay for bin collections and the chavs could continue to live in their own filth.

Last edited by rumpelstilzchen; 14-04-2012 at 11:44 PM.
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