How does it all work? The Occult, Esoteric

[monk59]

Without explaining all yet, it is a difficult subject, i wish to say i don't want to debate with those that believe in astrology, you may be right or wrong, please note that i bring forward for debate intentional astrology being "Electional Astrology", thus a different subject!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electional_astrology

I would submit that hermetic astrologers use sunset previous, midnight, and sunrise in calcalations at location, they keep you guessing over day start at location regarding latitude and longitude, Truthspoon has noted some masons, we will start there, but please note there is yet a lot to explain.

I will start next with "The House of the Temple" some think it is the most powerful lodge in the world, so i will investigate special dates regarding this next....

Link below, i'll be back soon:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_the_Temple

[monk59]

The rule of using parans are that they are day marked.

The cornerstone of House of the Temple was laid on October 18th 1911, it was completed on same date in 1915, so i will only show astronomy picture for 1911, as 1915 would show same alignments. At midnight day start at location it will show Sirius rising along horizon in the East.

The Ground breaking ceremony happened on May 31st 1911, in Washington DC, this time ancient greek day marker was used at location being sunset previous to date, as Sun set along horizon in West, so did Sirius, this is intentional aligning by astronomy, very like the ancient egyptians.

So May 31st 1911 becomes sunset on 30th May, please remember that the House of the Temple is modeled after the Tomb of Mausolus, and Albert Pike is buried there.

Astronomy graphs below:-

http://2012forum.com/forum/download/...3508&mode=view

You would be staggered if you knew how much of the history of the world was aligned the same way!

I must catch up on another thread about W.W.1., i'll be back in a few days.

[monk59]

I thought i would write just a little more before a pause, Truthspoon has identified Sirius in strange religious beliefs....there is just one other star that is used in hermetic philosophy.

The Egyptians valued Sirius as Isis, but male attribute is also used, being Osiris, which is the Constellation of Orion, the center of which is the Belt of Orion, the centre of Belt of Orion is Alnilam, thus through the ages it as been used as a symbol for Osiris in secret religion:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion's_Belt

Obviously in dates i have given regarding 11th September, i have said they cant align to Sirius, this doesn't happen anywhere, but perhaps i could align them to Alnilam= Osiris ha ha!

[monk59]

I'm not ready yet to explain Meiji Constitution in Tokyo, however second diagram below shows sunrise, egyptian day marker on 4th July 1776, in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania locked on to latitude, it shows the Sun rising along horizon in East with ALNILAM=Osiris.

This is U.S. location and date for U.S. Declaration of Independence:-

http://2012forum.com/forum/download/...3834&mode=view

[monk59]

To fully explain secret society symbolism of 11th September 2001, it is probably best if we explain first the symbolism of the "British Mandate", which is the heart of the matter.

Sir Herbert Samuel was the first commissioner and commander in chief of the Palestine Administration, to get agreement it was crucial that he was unbiased.

Sir Herbert Samuel was Jewish, which is at the heart of the conflict today, the ripples are never ending!

He took office without "Oath of Office" which isn't legal on 1st July 1920 in Jerusalem, thus only acting in that capacity, however it is an important date, and was intentionally marked at start of day by secret societies.

On this date they used "Egyptian day marker", being sunrise at location, Alnilam=Osiris also rose at location of Jerusalem with the Sun.

Sir Herbert Samuel took his "Oath of Office" thus making the "British Mandate" legal on 11th September 1922!

On 11th September 1922, midnight day marker was chosen in symbolism, which is "modern day start" in Jerusalem, where Alnilam=Osiris was rising along horizon in the East.

Information link below:-

http://2012forum.com/forum/download/...7151&mode=view

Astronomy graphs below showing horizon in East at sunrise and midnight on dates :-

http://2012forum.com/forum/download/...6308&mode=view

[rapunzel]

Originally Posted by Truthspoon

I wonder why Sirius is so important to the Eygptians and Freemasons. Some say because we come from there or there are aliens there but could it it just be because it's the brigtest star in the sky and the brighest heavenly object after The Moon and Venus.

That's a rather strange question from someone who claims to be interested in ancient Egypt. You know the answer - the heliacal rising of Sirius preceded the Inundation, without which Egypt would not have existed, therefore it became an important star, apart from being the brightest object in the sky, bar Venus and Moon.

[rapunzel]

Originally Posted by monk59

Hi Rapunsel,

You missed what i'm saying 11th September is only a symbolic date, religion is only about belief, i can't say that Sirius rose with the Sun when the Egyptian Calendar was formed, nor can any astronomer, however our belief system thinks it!

We are in awe of it and in belief by most religions can be used for unsavioury reasons by a few, they can be powerful, i'm not having an attitude of patronizing or condescending, few follow this type of esoteric...i understand that!

I'm not trying to make you idiots, i'm sure that you and Oz93666 are very brainy, i need your comments, you are not idiots but we all have our Expertise, mine is beliefs and astronomy related, please always try to stick a pin in me, it has value for others who don't post but listen!

Astrology is a belief, it goes back over 2,000 years in current form, i'm sorry if you are Christian or Muslim but religion has been infiltrated by a few that are very powerful in world scene, not nice, but all religion is about belief!

Your comments were inticipated Rapunzel, obviously the Coptic Calendar date of 11th September for Sirius rising with the Sun at any location doesn't happen now ANYWHERE, but astronomers can't find location for original Egyptian Calendar, there are many reasons for this that i will deal with in time, but belief matters to show!

We are now showing 11th September as only symbolic of Sirius rising with the Sun, however there are three options that matter that esoteric hermetic astrologers use in belief!

Obviously thousands of years ago 11th September wasn't a place on Earth where Sirius rose with the Sun, it isn't now! But the Coptic date for New Year is prone symbolically to at least five thousand years, this is belief!

So it comes to a muddle to value it other than in symbolic means, but the Coptic calendar is joined to Axial Precession and Gregorian Leap year, 11th September is joined to this , link below:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_precession

Next i will show you what that means!

Apologies for my late reply but I have been in hospital for some weeks and still feeling not quite right.

What I really want to say about 11 September is that the connection is not to the heliacal rising of Sirius but to the Egyptian New Years Day. They should always have been on the same day but because the Egyptian Civil Calendar was not long enough every 4 years the heliacal rising and New Years Day would separate by one day and the New Year would slowly slip around the calendar for 1460 years until once again it coincided with the Heliacal rising.

Without going into complicated issues about calendars, much of which I don't understand, it happened that when the Coptic calendar was fixed New Years Day was falling on 11 September and was separated from the Heliacal rising by over a month.

Therefore I contend that 11 September has no connection with Sirius because there was no connection with Sirius, symbolic or not, when that date was chosen as the Coptic New Year.

It's a complicated situation and I've probably given a piss poor explanation but that's all I'm capable of right now.

Cheers

[pepsi78]

Originally Posted by tenton

This is well worth investigaton if like me, you are looking for answers.

A safe and simple process of learning and practice towards the esoteric worlds.

At the top of the Occult there is god (the elohim) or Satan call it what you want. So the Elohim are at the top of the occult, the occult is the underworld, the hidden world and so on.

So you find god at the top, the as you come down the latter you find other entities and the scum bags god put incharge, besides the other beings in the flesh these are "the men of god" and beneath them the humans.


So it's a pyramidal structure
GOD>>>>HIS SPIRIT SERVANTS>>>>>MEN OF GOD>>>>>>HUMAN

It's not worth studiing, it is only worth to know about the occult so you know how to defend against them. You are better off with nature and practicing natural things, like natural spirituality. The only reason I would study it is for learning about them and how to prevent them from touching you.

God is a criminal, the Elohim are the protagonists in genesis "Let us make man in our image" The name Elohim apears in the genesis, meaning gods.

But they translated it "god" meaning one god, a LIE These gods created humans or man to be more specific. It is clear the translation serves one purpose to make belief that god is one god and not many gods, since the old gods had a bad reputation they had to fix that and hide under the vise of this one god, they also made god the source off all things, now god was the creator of everything (another lie) so they also posed as the creator

They created the occult science and society for those to train into it and become servants of the Elohim gods.

When the Elohim opened up their moulths garbage came out of it, and man was born a beast just like them, and like all beasts man rebeled against them.

These gods lied to man, and made the occult for only those who would serve them directly while the others would remain blind. They created the royal class or bloodliners to have occult knowlege and power over others.

They lied not once but many times, they killed, raped these spirits represent planet Saturn and the Saturnial overlord.

You should only get into the occult to get to know about them how to defend against them, how do they operate "not to practice the occult"

You will become evil like them....

The occult includes rituals, invocation of spirits, it is not sourcing where you are your own master and you don't call on anyone to do what you need.

Nature spirituality is different from the occult one. By practicing occult spirituality you become a vampire, an evil man just like god is.

[iamwhoam]

Originally Posted by rapunzel

Apologies for my late reply but I have been in hospital for some weeks and still feeling not quite right.

What I really want to say about 11 September is that the connection is not to the heliacal rising of Sirius but to the Egyptian New Years Day. They should always have been on the same day but because the Egyptian Civil Calendar was not long enough every 4 years the heliacal rising and New Years Day would separate by one day and the New Year would slowly slip around the calendar for 1460 years until once again it coincided with the Heliacal rising.

Without going into complicated issues about calendars, much of which I don't understand, it happened that when the Coptic calendar was fixed New Years Day was falling on 11 September and was separated from the Heliacal rising by over a month.

Therefore I contend that 11 September has no connection with Sirius because there was no connection with Sirius, symbolic or not, when that date was chosen as the Coptic New Year.

It's a complicated situation and I've probably given a piss poor explanation but that's all I'm capable of right now.

Cheers

First of all, I'm sorry to hear you arent feeling well. I hope you get better very soon.

Second, this is a theory about the significance of September 11 in the eyes of high level occultists, Freemasons, etc. I have explained it at length in other posts if you really want to know, but I do not think you do. Nobody is going to come to us and give conclusive proof that September 11 is currently the New Year's day of occultists. Therefore, we have to put forth strong circumstantial evidence, of which there is more than enough, relating the Egyptian calendar to Sirius to the Coptic Calendar to modern-day occultism. Once that evidence is accepted, the honest observer should see that this theory fits in with the wider world of conspiracy facts, and that strengthens the case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coptic_calendar:

"The Coptic calendar, also called the Alexandrian calendar, is used by the Coptic Orthodox Church and still used in Egypt. This calendar is based on the ancient Egyptian calendar."

From http://www.copticchurch.net/easter.html :

"The Feast of Neyrouz marks the first day of the Coptic Calendar known as the Year of the Martyrs "ANO MARTYRUM, A.M." Its celebration falls on the 1st day of the month named Tut, the first month of the Coptic year, which usually coincides with the 11th day of September."
...
"Historically, ancient Egyptians initially used a civil calendar based on a solar year that consisted of 365 days only, without making any adjustment for the additional quarter of a day each year. However, in the mean time, they knew an astronomical calendar which is based on an astronomical concept namely the heliacal rising of a bright star called Sirius "Canis Major, the Dog Star" at the dawn of the eastern horizon. The day on which the heliacal rising of Sirius occurs marks the first day of the year. Sirius or Spdt in ancient Egyptian is characterized by high luminosity and is a member of the constellation Canis Major. It lies about 8.6 light years from earth. The first day coincides with the arrival of the highest point of river Nile flood at Memphis, south west of Cairo, the capital of Egypt during the early dynastic period of the old kingdom."

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sothis :

"Sothis is the name of a star that the Egyptians considered unusually significant. The star is not explicitly identified, but there are enough clues for modern scholars to be almost unanimous in identifying Sothis as Sirius.
"Plutarch states that The soul of Isis is called Dog by the Greeks
Sothis was identified with Isis in many Egyptian texts
The Greeks called Sirius the Dog"

Please note that I put this next quote here to show that some people, like certain astrologers, clearly identify Isis and Sirius with the ancient Egyptian calendar. It should not be any kind of leap, therefore, to say that modern occultists do something very similar.

From http://www.mirrorofisis.freeyellow.com/id63.html :

"Sirius: The Sacred Star of Isis
The Star of the New Year

"The Beautiful Star of Isis now called Sirius, but anciently called Sothis by the Greeks and Sopdet by the Egyptians, was considered to open the way for the Nile flood, which brought life and fertility back to the land of Egypt. About five thousand years ago the heliacal rising of Sirius occurred on the Summer Solstice which falls on June 21st. This means that Sirius rose just ahead of the Sun and was visible again for a few brief moments after a 70 day absence from the skies of Egypt.

"As the bright Star of Isis shone briefly before mingling Her light with Her Divine Grandfather, Ra, the God of the Sun, great joy and reverence spread throughout Egypt, for the arrival of the Nile Star meant salvation and life for all in the land. It was thought that the tears of Isis brought the Nile floods as Isis mourned and wept for Her beloved Husband, Osiris/Asar/Usir, who was, in a religious sense, considered to be the first Pharaoh or King of Egypt. In the old story it is said that Osiris was betrayed and murdered by His Brother, the ancient Egyptian 'Evil One.'"

[truthspoon]

Originally Posted by rapunzel

That's a rather strange question from someone who claims to be interested in ancient Egypt. You know the answer - the heliacal rising of Sirius preceded the Inundation, without which Egypt would not have existed, therefore it became an important star, apart from being the brightest object in the sky, bar Venus and Moon.

Thanks. My personal focus of attention was the book of Coming Forth by Day. The Sirius thing was just a blind spot which I thank you for correcting, but my personal interest in ancient egypt was more on the metaphysical aspect. You only see what you focus on, sometimes you miss the details, thankyou for answering my question.

Since you're here, what was the significance if any, of what we know as the constelation of Orion to the ancient Egyptians? Do you ascribe to the Graham Hancock theory that the pyramids were set out to mirror the three stars of Orion's belt. Additionally do you believe that the ventillation shafts had some other purpose, some researchers claim they channeled light from certain stars into the chambers or directed the Pharoah's soul to the correct celestial destination. I literally don't know and would be happy to hear your perspective. I suspect possibly that they were just literally air shafts.

[rapunzel]

Originally Posted by iamwhoam

First of all, I'm sorry to hear you arent feeling well. I hope you get better very soon.

Thanks but it's a slow process which is why I'm not here very often.

Second, this is a theory about the significance of September 11 in the eyes of high level occultists, Freemasons, etc. I have explained it at length in other posts if you really want to know, but I do not think you do.

I haven't read all your posts on other threads so I'm not sure how you are privy to the thoughts of 'high level occultists'. Who first said there was a significance to the date? Or did someone who believed in a conspiracy also wonder if there was an occult connection and this idea then grew legs?

Nobody is going to come to us and give conclusive proof that September 11 is currently the New Year's day of occultists.

I have never seen any evidence that it is or that occultists are in any way united with similar beliefs and correspondences.

Therefore, we have to put forth strong circumstantial evidence, of which there is more than enough, relating the Egyptian calendar to Sirius to the Coptic Calendar to modern-day occultism. Once that evidence is accepted, the honest observer should see that this theory fits in with the wider world of conspiracy facts, and that strengthens the case.[INDENT]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coptic_calendar:

This has nothing to do with 'honest observers'. Just because someone may disagree with you doesn't make them dishonest no matter how sincerely you believe in your theory.

I'd love to see the circumstantial evidence which seems in short supply at the moment.

"The Coptic calendar, also called the Alexandrian calendar, is used by the Coptic Orthodox Church and still used in Egypt. This calendar is based on the ancient Egyptian calendar."

It's not as simple as that. The Egyptians had four calendars; which one do you consider to be the 'ancient Egyptian calendar?

"The Feast of Neyrouz marks the first day of the Coptic Calendar known as the Year of the Martyrs "ANO MARTYRUM, A.M." Its celebration falls on the 1st day of the month named Tut, the first month of the Coptic year, which usually coincides with the 11th day of September."

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sothis :

"Sothis is the name of a star that the Egyptians considered unusually significant. The star is not explicitly identified, but there are enough clues for modern scholars to be almost unanimous in identifying Sothis as Sirius.
"Plutarch states that The soul of Isis is called Dog by the Greeks
Sothis was identified with Isis in many Egyptian texts
The Greeks called Sirius the Dog"

Please note that I put this next quote here to show that some people, like certain astrologers, clearly identify Isis and Sirius with the ancient Egyptian calendar. It should not be any kind of leap, therefore, to say that modern occultists do something very similar.

No one is arguing that Sirius is not connected with the Egyptian calendar and again I ask, which calendar? and exactly how is Sirius connected to the Coptic calendar?

From http://www.mirrorofisis.freeyellow.com/id63.html :

"Sirius: The Sacred Star of Isis
The Star of the New Year

"The Beautiful Star of Isis now called Sirius, but anciently called Sothis by the Greeks and Sopdet by the Egyptians, was considered to open the way for the Nile flood, which brought life and fertility back to the land of Egypt. About five thousand years ago the heliacal rising of Sirius occurred on the Summer Solstice which falls on June 21st. This means that Sirius rose just ahead of the Sun and was visible again for a few brief moments after a 70 day absence from the skies of Egypt.

"As the bright Star of Isis shone briefly before mingling Her light with Her Divine Grandfather, Ra, the God of the Sun, great joy and reverence spread throughout Egypt, for the arrival of the Nile Star meant salvation and life for all in the land. It was thought that the tears of Isis brought the Nile floods as Isis mourned and wept for Her beloved Husband, Osiris/Asar/Usir, who was, in a religious sense, considered to be the first Pharaoh or King of Egypt. In the old story it is said that Osiris was betrayed and murdered by His Brother, the ancient Egyptian 'Evil One.'"

Written by an astrologer I see and has rather a new agey and unhistorical feel. Never mind. This still doesn't get past the problem that the rising of Sirius on New Years Day occurred only once every 1460 years in Egypt.

Don't you think it more likely that if occultists were involved in 9/11 they would have chosen a date when Sirius rose heliacally in New York? I don't know what date that would be but no doubt someone could find out. If they were so keen to involve Sirius in their destruction then to my mind that is what they would have done.

[rapunzel]

Originally Posted by Truthspoon

Thanks. My personal focus of attention was the book of Coming Forth by Day. The Sirius thing was just a blind spot which I thank you for correcting, but my personal interest in ancient egypt was more on the metaphysical aspect. You only see what you focus on, sometimes you miss the details, thankyou for answering my question.

We all sometimes miss the details, none of us is perfect.

Since you're here, what was the significance if any, of what we know as the constelation of Orion to the ancient Egyptians? Do you ascribe to the Graham Hancock theory that the pyramids were set out to mirror the three stars of Orion's belt.

Hancock's theory may have been quite ingenious and at first glance appeared to have something going for it but as I understand it several astronomers have taken issue with his measurements and dates and even Hancock has had to back down somewhat and acknowledge that it is all symbolic.

So no, I don't believe in the Correlation Theory with Orion although the south eastern corners of the 3 pyramids align with the ancient city of Heliopolis which does seem to be deliberate.

Nor do I believe that the constellation of Orion had a great significance to the Egyptians. Known as Sahu we are not even sure if it contained the same stars as the current Orion. It's quite a fascinating subject since we don't know exactly when Osiris became connected with Sahu, and even more confusingly Horus, as in Horus the Elder, is a God who preceded Osiris in the mythology. Horus the son is a later God who became syncretised in the typically Egyptian manner. The idea that the Egyptians had a stellar religion which was later substituted by a solar religion does not hold water.

Additionally do you believe that the ventillation shafts had some other purpose, some researchers claim they channeled light from certain stars into the chambers or directed the Pharoah's soul to the correct celestial destination. I literally don't know and would be happy to hear your perspective. I suspect possibly that they were just literally air shafts.

No-one knows what these shafts were for and I hesitate to form an opinion with so little evidence. What is known is that including them in the construction of the pyramid make the work so much more complicated than it already was that they must have had some importance otherwise why bother to do all the extra work?

Why would the Pharaoh's soul need shafts to pass to the heavens? Was it not capable of penetrating sold objects? And why were these shafts not included in all the pyramids if this was the belief.?

Channelling the light of certain stars has the problem, which stars and which dates? The northern shafts point to the circumpolar stars and it seems impossible to focus on one of those stars at the same time as focusing on significant stars through the southern shafts. There is the added problem that the shafts are bent so without the judicious placing of mirror, of which there is no evidence, no light could penetrate.

Why would ventilation shafts be necessary for a dead body, particularly given the immense difficulties in constructing them and why do the shafts not go all the way to the outside from the queen's chamber and why are there doors in some of them?

The issue just raises more and more questions but hopefully someone will come up with a solution in the future. There will be an answer, the Egyptians didn't construct these shafts for no purpose but I'm not intuitive enough to even hazard a guess as to what the purpose is.

[iamwhoam]

Originally Posted by rapunzel

I haven't read all your posts on other threads so I'm not sure how you are privy to the thoughts of 'high level occultists'. Who first said there was a significance to the date? Or did someone who believed in a conspiracy also wonder if there was an occult connection and this idea then grew legs?

I am not privy to the thoughts of high level occultists. That was the very point I was making. We have to read the symbolism.

The occult connection is obvious if you study Freemasonry. The two towers, representing the oppositions of feminine/masculine, Yin/Yang, material/physical, right-brain/left-brain, etc. were destroyed and replaced by a building with sides shaped like up-and-down triangles to symbolize a hexagram, the symbol for the unification of these oppositions. The oppositions were united because 2001 was the dawning of a new age, the Age of Aquarius. It began 2000 years after the birth of Jesus, which coincided with the start of Pisces. Aquarius is the water-bearer and the monument to the towers is two fountains.

As I've already told you, a police dog named Sirius died in one of the towers. http://www.911memorial.org/blog/trib...officer-sirius Sirius is the dog star, and the number to called the police is 911. K-9 in English gematria is 11-9, or 911 backwards. The odds of a coincidence like this are slim. Plus, right next door to the World Trade Center complex is the Millenium Hilton Hotel, which is shaped like a black monolith in tribute to Kubirck's 2001: A Space Odyssey. This movie is named after the year of 911 and is about the alchemical process that unites the oppositions in the alchemical marriage of Shiva and Shakti, the god and goddess.

The goddess is the kundalini which rises from the base of the spine. When it reaches the crown chakra, enlightenment is achieved. This can be seen in the Statue of Liberty, a Freemasonic construction of a goddess holding the flame of enlightenment while wearing a seven-rayed (as in 7 chakras) crown.

The pentagon is another Masonic construction, designed by a Freemason under the guidance of a Masonic president. The five-pointed star fits inside a pentagon and is a Masonic symbol for Sirius. Construction of the Pentagon began on 9/11/1942.

George H.W. Bush announced the New World Order on 9/11/1990.

I have never seen any evidence that it is or that occultists are in any way united with similar beliefs and correspondences.

Me either.

This has nothing to do with 'honest observers'. Just because someone may disagree with you doesn't make them dishonest no matter how sincerely you believe in your theory.

The problem isnt that you disagree. It is that you are missing the point. It is not about the specifics of the Egyptian calendars. If one wanted to have a symbolic date for the celebration of Sirius, 911 more that fits the bill, and all the surrounding symbolism corroborates it.

It's not as simple as that. The Egyptians had four calendars; which one do you consider to be the 'ancient Egyptian calendar?

You are over-complicating to confuse the issue. A symbolic date is by design a simplification of history in order to observe or celebrate someone or something.

No one is arguing that Sirius is not connected with the Egyptian calendar and again I ask, which calendar? and exactly how is Sirius connected to the Coptic calendar?

You are missing the point. 911 is a symbolic day, and the closest version of the ancient Egyptian calendar that exists today is the Coptic Calendar, which begins on 9/11.

Written by an astrologer I see and has rather a new agey and unhistorical feel. Never mind. This still doesn't get past the problem that the rising of Sirius on New Years Day occurred only once every 1460 years in Egypt.

Don't you think it more likely that if occultists were involved in 9/11 they would have chosen a date when Sirius rose heliacally in New York? I don't know what date that would be but no doubt someone could find out. If they were so keen to involve Sirius in their destruction then to my mind that is what they would have done.

I made a point of saying that this was not an official source. I put it there to show that some people believe this, so it is entirely within the realm of possibility that the people who organized 911 did so on a specific date related to Sirius.

[rapunzel]

Originally Posted by iamwhoam

I am not privy to the thoughts of high level occultists. That was the very point I was making. We have to read the symbolism.

#

The problem with symbolism is that it can mean anything you want it to mean, even when the object has no symbolic meaning. A wavy line can be symbolic but sometimes it's just a wavy line.

The occult connection is obvious if you study Freemasonry. The two towers, representing the oppositions of feminine/masculine, Yin/Yang, material/physical, right-brain/left-brain, etc. were destroyed and replaced by a building with sides shaped like up-and-down triangles to symbolize a hexagram, the symbol for the unification of these oppositions.

You are assuming that the two towers had a symbolic meaning. Maybe they were just two towers. Unless you were present at the planning meetings you cannot possibly know. The same with the replacement. You have assumed it has a meaning. Have you spoken to the architects? What is their view?

Everything you claim is an assumption and what you have done is to put the cart before the horse. The correct way to do research is to collect a lot of seemingly disparate facts and see if there is a connection and you then draw a conclusion. You already have the conclusion and are hunting for facts to support that conclusion which must mean ignoring facts that do not fit, even though they may be relevant. You will always find your facts you require by working this way and you can prove almost anything to be true by being selective.

The oppositions were united because 2001 was the dawning of a new age, the Age of Aquarius. It began 2000 years after the birth of Jesus, which coincided with the start of Pisces. Aquarius is the water-bearer and the monument to the towers is two fountains.

Even astrologers cannot agree on the start or end dates of any of the Ages mostly because the Astrological Ages are an artificial construct which bear no relationship to what is happening in the skies. The sun does not physically move into the constellation of Aquarius until 2597 AD approx. You have chosen 2001 as your start date to fit in with your theory.

Fountains are frequently used as monuments because people like them and they are aesthetically pleasing. Nothing to do with Aquarius.

As I've already told you, a police dog named Sirius died in one of the towers. http://www.911memorial.org/blog/trib...officer-sirius

Are you saying that this dog was deliberately killed for symbolic reasons? Do you have proof of this or this this just another assumption? I understand the dog's post was at the North Tower so you are claiming that this was deliberate knowing that the dog would be sacrificed there, maybe even that the puppy was deliberately named Sirius far in advance of the plot being carried out. Personally I think this point is just laughable.

Sirius is the dog star, and the number to called the police is 911. K-9 in English gematria is 11-9, or 911 backwards. The odds of a coincidence like this are slim.

K9 is merely another way of writing 'canine'. 911 is certainly the police call number but so what? In English Gematria K9 is 66 according to www.gematrix.org

Plus, right next door to the World Trade Center complex is the Millenium Hilton Hotel, which is shaped like a black monolith in tribute to Kubirck's 2001: A Space Odyssey. This movie is named after the year of 911 and is about the alchemical process that unites the oppositions in the alchemical marriage of Shiva and Shakti, the god and goddess.

How do you know the shape of the hotel was a tribute? Your interpretation of the book/film is not mine. Are these more assumptions or do you have irrefutable proof?

The goddess is the kundalini which rises from the base of the spine. When it reaches the crown chakra, enlightenment is achieved. This can be seen in the Statue of Liberty, a Freemasonic construction of a goddess holding the flame of enlightenment while wearing a seven-rayed (as in 7 chakras) crown.

You seem to be mixing up different strands of the occult. Egyptian, Indian, Masonic. You seem to be picking your facts from quite a wide mix which makes it easier to support your prior conclusions.

The architect of the Statue of Liberty was a Mason but that does not make the Statue so. The 7 rayed star represents the 7 oceans and continents of the world for after all the French name of the Statue is 'Liberty enlightening the World'. It also represents the sun. You have interpreted the 7 spikes of the crown as 7 chakras because that suits your conclusion and not because there is any evidence to show the chakras are indicated. You are picking and choosing facts which is not good.

The pentagon is another Masonic construction, designed by a Freemason under the guidance of a Masonic president. The five-pointed star fits inside a pentagon and is a Masonic symbol for Sirius. Construction of the Pentagon began on 9/11/1942.

Evidence for what you are claiming? Actually I believe the year was 1941.

According to Masonic info I have read the Blazing Star is the Star of Bethlehem.

George H.W. Bush announced the New World Order on 9/11/1990

The so called New World Order was announced a number of times before this including by the Nato Secretary General on 24 Nov 1988 and Gorbachev on 7 Dec 1988. It has been mentioned on a number of different dates but by selecting one date and ignoring others you are choosing once again what facts you will consider.

The problem isnt that you disagree. It is that you are missing the point. It is not about the specifics of the Egyptian calendars. If one wanted to have a symbolic date for the celebration of Sirius, 911 more that fits the bill, and all the surrounding symbolism corroborates it.

I don't believe I am missing the point. But symbolism must have some connection with the object and I don't see it here. What connection does Sirius have to kundalini and Shakti? What connection is there between Sirius and the chakras? You must have a connection because why bother including them? The surrounding symbolism you allege is just a few cherry picked facts.

You are over-complicating to confuse the issue. A symbolic date is by design a simplification of history in order to observe or celebrate someone or something.

Why are the occultists celebrating Sirius and why are they using a Christian calendar with a link to Egypt? I am not trying to confuse the issue at all since it is already complicated enough with too many unanswered questions and I am trying to cut through some of the confusion.

[iamwhoam]

Originally Posted by rapunzel

#

The problem with symbolism is that it can mean anything you want it to mean, even when the object has no symbolic meaning. A wavy line can be symbolic but sometimes it's just a wavy line.

You are assuming that the two towers had a symbolic meaning. Maybe they were just two towers. Unless you were present at the planning meetings you cannot possibly know. The same with the replacement. You have assumed it has a meaning. Have you spoken to the architects? What is their view?

Everything you claim is an assumption and what you have done is to put the cart before the horse. The correct way to do research is to collect a lot of seemingly disparate facts and see if there is a connection and you then draw a conclusion. You already have the conclusion and are hunting for facts to support that conclusion which must mean ignoring facts that do not fit, even though they may be relevant. You will always find your facts you require by working this way and you can prove almost anything to be true by being selective.

Even astrologers cannot agree on the start or end dates of any of the Ages mostly because the Astrological Ages are an artificial construct which bear no relationship to what is happening in the skies. The sun does not physically move into the constellation of Aquarius until 2597 AD approx. You have chosen 2001 as your start date to fit in with your theory.

Fountains are frequently used as monuments because people like them and they are aesthetically pleasing. Nothing to do with Aquarius.

Are you saying that this dog was deliberately killed for symbolic reasons? Do you have proof of this or this this just another assumption? I understand the dog's post was at the North Tower so you are claiming that this was deliberate knowing that the dog would be sacrificed there, maybe even that the puppy was deliberately named Sirius far in advance of the plot being carried out. Personally I think this point is just laughable.

K9 is merely another way of writing 'canine'. 911 is certainly the police call number but so what? In English Gematria K9 is 66 according to www.gematrix.org

How do you know the shape of the hotel was a tribute? Your interpretation of the book/film is not mine. Are these more assumptions or do you have irrefutable proof?

You seem to be mixing up different strands of the occult. Egyptian, Indian, Masonic. You seem to be picking your facts from quite a wide mix which makes it easier to support your prior conclusions.

The architect of the Statue of Liberty was a Mason but that does not make the Statue so. The 7 rayed star represents the 7 oceans and continents of the world for after all the French name of the Statue is 'Liberty enlightening the World'. It also represents the sun. You have interpreted the 7 spikes of the crown as 7 chakras because that suits your conclusion and not because there is any evidence to show the chakras are indicated. You are picking and choosing facts which is not good.

Evidence for what you are claiming? Actually I believe the year was 1941.

According to Masonic info I have read the Blazing Star is the Star of Bethlehem.

The so called New World Order was announced a number of times before this including by the Nato Secretary General on 24 Nov 1988 and Gorbachev on 7 Dec 1988. It has been mentioned on a number of different dates but by selecting one date and ignoring others you are choosing once again what facts you will consider.

I don't believe I am missing the point. But symbolism must have some connection with the object and I don't see it here. What connection does Sirius have to kundalini and Shakti? What connection is there between Sirius and the chakras? You must have a connection because why bother including them? The surrounding symbolism you allege is just a few cherry picked facts.

Why are the occultists celebrating Sirius and why are they using a Christian calendar with a link to Egypt? I am not trying to confuse the issue at all since it is already complicated enough with too many unanswered questions and I am trying to cut through some of the confusion.

Wow. You win. I'm not going to argue against simpleton logic. We are in the realm of probability, not certainty. K is the eleventh letter of the alphabet. Once again, you are strongly asserting yourself in areas you are not fit to debate.

The star of Bethlehem is the star in the East, the Eastern Star, Sirius.

[truthspoon]

Originally Posted by rapunzel

Why would ventilation shafts be necessary for a dead body, particularly given the immense difficulties in constructing them and why do the shafts not go all the way to the outside from the queen's chamber and why are there doors in some of them?

I think the existence of air shafts in the great Pyramid indicate that the building was likely more for the use of a living person than a dead one.

Typically Egyptian dignitaries were buried in tombs and mastabas whose walls were richly painted with good things for them to populate the next life.

Why are all the greatest pyramids devoid of internal ornamentation typical of actual tombs of that time? Why also are the walls of the Pyramid of Unas covered with the Book of Coming forth by Day, which is actually a ritualistic set of instructions involved in initiations into the Egyptian mysteries.

Tombs were always covered with the things the Pharoah needed in the next life. Fruit, servants, cows, food. And also symbols of his power and his unity with the Gods of the Egyptian pantheon. The pyramid of Unas doesn't have this, it has monsters, pits, snakes and codes. It is not something for someone who has died, it is for someone who is very much alive.

[rapunzel]

Originally Posted by iamwhoam

Wow. You win.

This isn't about winning or losing. I thought it was meant to be an intelligent discussion but evidently I was wrong.

I'm not going to argue against simpleton logic.

there is no such thing as 'simpleton logic'. Logic is the science of reasoning as you well know and an idea or suggestion is either logical or it is not. The fact that you despise logic shows me a great deal about your way of thinking.

If on the other hand you think my arguments are illogical then say so and give examples.

We are in the realm of probability, not certainty.

Are you sure? I think you are misusing the word probability. What mathematical formula are you using in your search for the truth?

I believe we are in the realm of supposition, no more or no less.

K is the eleventh letter of the alphabet

And this means........? Canine in English Gematria is 276 which equals 6 and means nothing so this is ignored in favour of K9 which gives you a result. Sirius equals 570 = 3, again nothing so is ignored. This is cherry picking.

Once again, you are strongly asserting yourself in areas you are not fit to debate.

And what give you the authority to decide who is fit to debate anything? Such hubris! I wonder what it is which makes you think I know nothing about the areas you have been talking about. At least I know about the rules of research.

The star of Bethlehem is the star in the East, the Eastern Star, Sirius.

Some proof would be nice rather than just your bald assertion. What makes you think Sirius is the 'Eastern Star'? What was special about Sirius in the year the Magi decided to 'follow' it?

[iamwhoam]

Originally Posted by rapunzel

And this means........? Canine in English Gematria is 276 which equals 6 and means nothing so this is ignored in favour of K9 which gives you a result. Sirius equals 570 = 3, again nothing so is ignored. This is cherry picking.

And what give you the authority to decide who is fit to debate anything? Such hubris! I wonder what it is which makes you think I know nothing about the areas you have been talking about. At least I know about the rules of research.

Some proof would be nice rather than just your bald assertion. What makes you think Sirius is the 'Eastern Star'? What was special about Sirius in the year the Magi decided to 'follow' it?

From Albert Mackey's Lexicon of Freemasonry, pg. 452:

"Those brethren who delight to trace our astronomical symbols to the cradle of the science, Egypt, and to the Egyptian priests, its earliest cultivators, find in the seven stars depicted on the Master's carpet, a representation of the Pleaides, and in the blazing star an allusion to the dog-star, which the Egyptians called Anubis or the barker, because its rising warned them of the inundation of the Nile, which always quickly followed its appearance, and thus admonished them to retire from the lower grounds, just as the barking of a dog admonishes his master of approaching danger."

Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma:

"The Blazing Star in the centre is said to be '"an emblem of Divine Providence, and commemorative of the star which appeared to guide the wise men of the East to the place of our Saviour's nativity." - p. 14.

"To find in the BLAZING STAR of five points an allusion to the Divine Providence, is also fanciful ; and to make it commemorative of the Star that is said to have guided the Magi, is to give it a meaning comparatively modern. Originally it represented SIRIUS, or the Dog-star, the forerunner of the inundation of the Nile ; the God ANUBIS, companion of Isis in her search for the body of OSIRIS, her brother and husband... It became the sacred and potent sign or character of the Magi, the PENTALPHA, and is the significant emblem of Liberty and Freedom, blazing with a steady radiance amid the weltering elements of good and evil of Revolutions, and promising serene skies and fertile seasons to the nations, after the storms of change and tumult." - pg. 14-5.

"The Ancient Astronomers saw all the great Symbols of Masonry in the Stars. Sirius still glitters in our Lodges as the Blazing Star..." - p. 486.

"The Blazing Star in our Lodges, we have already said, represents Sirius..." - p. 506.

"Tradition also gives these Magi the title of "Kings;" because initiation into Magism constitutes a genuine royalty ; and because the grand art of the Magi is styled by all the Adepts "The Royal Art," or the Holy Realm or Empire, Sanctum Regnum.
"The Star which guided them is that same Blazing Star, the image whereof we find in all initiations. To the Alchemists it is the sign of the Quintessence ; to the Magists, the Grand Arcanum ; to the Kabalists, the Sacred Pentagram. The study of this Pentagram could not but lead the Magi to the knowledge of the New Name which was about to raise itself above all names, and cause all creatures capable of adoration to bend the knee." - p. 842.

From The Royal Arch of Enoch by 32nd Degree Freemason Robert W. Sullivan IV:

"While explaining solar Masonic symbolism this author also disposes with the notion that the planet Venus - Lucifer - has some import in Freemasonry; masonry incorporates cosmological symbolism but again this is either most likely referencing the sun or the star Sirius, the latter referred to as the “Blazing Star of Masonry”." - (Kindle Locations 845-848)

"Isis upon the death of Osiris became a widow; Freemasons are thereby known as widow’s sons." - (Kindle Locations 859-860)

"The Five Points of Fellowship form a pentagram, symbolized within Masonry as the Blazing Star which is the Egyptian Dog-Star Sirius, the brightest star in the nighttime sky - appearing in the east as the Eastern Star. Being the brightest star makes Sirius the “lone star”. The sun aside, the Blazing Star is often called the most important symbol within Masonry. The Blazing Star, Sirius, is symbolized by a five pointed star or pentagram within Masonry." - (Kindle Locations 1580-1586)

"Freemasonry as an institution is Isis, the mother of the Mysteries, from whose dark womb the Initiates are born in the mystery of the second or philosophical birth." - (Kindle Locations 1677-1678)

"...the Pagan Mysteries, they were gone from history by the fourth/fifth century. However, their language - symbolism - and its true meaning and explanation was kept hidden by secret esoteric groups or mystical societies down through the present age; the Gnostics (the name Gnostic means wisdom; they interpreted the Christian Mysteries according to pagan symbolism), the Cathers, the Knights Templar, the Jesuits, the Rosicrucians, the Illuminati, and, of course, Freemasonry." - (Kindle Locations 3267-3271)

"Christianity - one can easily argue - was a New Age religion for the Piscean Age (0 - 2012/2100 B.C.E) cultivated at the Council of Nicaea where Sol Invictus (Unconquered Sun) was transformed into the Christ Jesus - the Sol/Sun/Son of God. The New Testament contains numerous astrological symbolisms, elements of Doceticism (Christ as a spirit and not a physical person), and vestiges of the Pagan Mysteries. Jesus is the sun in the house of Pisces - God’s Sun for the Piscean Age." - (Kindle Locations 3301-3304)

"The three kings (identified as three by the gifts they present at Matthew 2:11) also refer to the stellar “three kings” or Drie Konings, the stars Alnitak, Alnilam, and Mintaka that comprise Orion’s Belt. On December 24th they align with the Eastern Star - Sirius as Isis the Virgin Mother - the brightest star in the nighttime sky to locate the spot of the sunrise (birth of the sun) on the horizon on December 25th, hence Sirius’ link to the sun. Sirius aligned with Orion - Isis with Osiris - within the Christian Mysterion would be transformed into the concept of three kings following the Eastern Star to locate the birth of God’s sun/son on December 25th." - (Kindle Locations 3613-3621)

"The Great Seal of the United States’ reverse embodies components of Masonic solar sovereignty: it is essentially a Masonic sundial. The seal’s reverse features a truncated Egyptian pyramid and suggest Masonry’s Egyptian origins..." - (Kindle Locations 8993-8994)

"On July 4th the sun heliacally rises with Sirius (beginning the “Dog Days” of summer) thereby Isis the Virgin Mother becomes united with her sun god Horus, or alternatively with Amun Ra/Re - whom she possessed his sacred and holy name, the symbolic Lost Word of a Master Mason." - (Kindle Locations 9027-9030)

"The Statue of Liberty was a gift from French Orient Freemasons to American Freemasons to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the birth of the first Masonic Republic: the United States of America." - (Kindle Locations 9575-9577)

"The first Basilica of St. Louis today is dwarfed by the Gateway Arch to the West, an actual Masonic Arch symbolic of the Templar Order (Knight of the Ninth Arch). The Gateway Arch contains Masonic cosmological symbolism. The cornerstone to the Gateway Arch was laid on February 12, 1963. Instead of an actual cornerstone being laid the first of the 142 steel sections as part of its foundation was set in place. The keystone was set in place on October 28, 1965 coinciding with the anniversary of the dedication of the Masonic Statue of Liberty in New York Harbor kabbalistically linking the Mississippi valley forever to the Clinton’s York Rite Knight Templary nuanced Empire State. The halfway point between February 12, 1963 and October 28, 1965 is June 21, 1964. June 21 is the date of the summer solstice when the sun reaches the keystone - its apex - within the House of Cancer as the sun travels along the northern “Royal Arch” of the Zodiac. The Gateway Arch to the West is in actuality a monument symbolic of the both the Royal Arch of Enoch and the Royal Arch of the Zodiac sitting in a city named St. Louis - Catholic King and Saint Louis IX conforming with the concept of divine monarch in Ramsay’s haute degree ideology. It is an example of hidden Masonic solar symbolism in the United States and echoes the symbolism of the modern day Adocentyn: the District of Columbia - the Masonic City of the Sun." - (Kindle Locations 10106-10117)

"The cabalistic Lost Word remains a reference to the secret, esoteric reference to the Eastern Star, Sirius, worshipped as Isis, who possessed the secret name of Amun Re/Ra and to the Five Points of Fellowship necessary to communicate the substitute word of Master Mason at the raising to the degree of Master Mason after the Real Word - recovered in the various Royal ceremonials - was lost. The symbol for the Order of the Eastern Star is a pentagram representative of Sirius." - (Kindle Locations 10971-10975)

"The Capital City is architecturally imbedded with the Egyptian hieroglyph for Sirius, which in Egyptian Mythology is a star associated with the virgin mother of the sun, Isis. The hieroglyph includes a dome, or benben - the sacred stone of Heliopolis where first rays of the rising sun fell. The benben is the Capitol Dome symbolic of the sun god Apollo and as a cabalistic New World Temple of Light, or democracy. The glyph also features an obelisk which took concrete form in the Washington Monument and a pentagram that would take shape as a broken pentagram - created by various street roundabouts - with the Executive Mansion or White House located at the bottom point." - (Kindle Locations 11018-11027)

"Just as the virgin goddess Isis - whose star is Sirius (Sothis) - aligns with Orion or Osiris via the Three Kings (Orion’s Belt) to birth the sun - Horus - at the winter solstice; Washington, D.C. becomes cabalistically aligned to Egyptian occult symbology of Sirius as the true mother of the sun; the sun being the ultimate symbol of Masonic light or wisdom which is alternatively brought before sunrise by Venus - the Son of the Morning - Lucifer... Note that earlier in this book the author stated that Freemasonry was not a Luciferian Doctrine; however, if one equates Luciferianism as an emblem of the sun - not Venus - and as a vehicle to pursue esoteric enlightenment then yes, Freemasonry is the pure doctrines of Lucifer." - (Kindle Locations 11126-11134)

"The House of the Temple: the Headquarters of The Supreme Council, 33°, Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, Southern Jurisdiction would come to rest thirteen blocks from the White House. The thirteen blocks represent the 13th degree of Rite of Perfection and the Scottish Rite Masonry: The Royal Arch of Enoch, thereby masking the United States Presidency as a Masonic symbol of Logos and investing the Presidency as a de-facto Masonic leader of the United States millennial Masonic Republic with the President as a kind of Joachimite Novus Dux." - (Kindle Locations 11186-11191).

[iamwhoam]

"The Millenium Hilton is a Hilton hotel in Lower Manhattan, New York City, located at the southeast corner of Fulton Street and Church Street. The hotel is adjacent to the World Trade Center site, where the new World Trade Center complex is being built." - From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millenium_Hilton

"[Kubrick] was born in the Bronx, but lived in Britain for most of his adult. Yet, he was strongly tied to New York City and had a strange premonition about it -- which tragically came true in the events of Sept. 11. Looming over ''2001,'' appearing at key points of the story, is a large black monolith, a mysterious, sleekly technological object seen both by the ape-man millions of years ago and also in 2001 on the moon, pointing its radio signal to the planet Jupiter, the object of the last voyage of the doomed astronauts in the film.
"In one of many eerie parallels to the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center, the image of the black monolith has reappeared -- literally -- at ground zero, in the form of proportionally similar black glass slab buildings that rise above the ruins of the twin towers." - From http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/30/we...-monolith.html

"The Millennium Hilton building is a high-rise black glass building which pays homage to Arthur C. Clarke's vision of the Monolith in "2001: A Space Odyssey'"- From http://excitingny.com/eastny_milleniumhilton.shtml[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by iamwhoam

The spine supposedly has 33 vertebrae:

The 2001 spacecraft looks a lot like a spine, and it is going to Saturn's gateway to higher consciousness.

Saturn is the crown chakra, the gateway to enlightenment.


In the book version of 2001, David Bowman travels to Saturn and finds a black monolith on Saturn's moon, Japetus. On page 194, referring to the monolith, Clarke says: "Call it the Star Gate," and Part 6 of the book is titled Through the Star Gate.

After entering the Star Gate, Bowman encounters a large red star with a white dwarf star revolving around it:

pg. 213: "The pod continued its slow rotation, to disclose an even stranger sight - a huge red sun, many times larger than the Moon as seen from Earth. Bowman could look straight into its face without discomfort; judging by its color, it was no hotter than a glowing coal.

pg. 214-5: "Above the burning horizon lifted something no larger than a star, but so brilliant that the eye could not bear to look upon it. A mere point of blue-white radiance, like an electric arc, was moving at unbelievable speed across the face of the great sun. It must be very close to its giant companion; for immediately below it, drawn upward by its gravitational pull, was a column of flame thousands of miles high. It was as if a tidal wave of fire was marching forever along the equator of this star, in vain pursuit of the searing apparition in its sky.
That pinpoint of incandescence must be a White Dwarf - one of those strange, fierce little stars, no larger than the Earth, yet containing a million times its mass."

Sirius is a binary star system consisting of Sirius A and its massively dense companion star, Sirius B.

[the apprentice]

Originally Posted by oz93666

Well why don't you tell us how it works.... I'm sure you must have learned a lot.

Its a slight of words, as well as hands that do not do their own dishes, and do someone elses at a whim without asking why.