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Old 31-10-2014, 03:07 AM   #741
payt69
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Originally Posted by sucahyo View Post
Having similarity do not mean they are the same.
That's not what you said though. You said that stating that they are similar was 'complete bullshit'. Well you were wrong.. happens to the best of us.

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As side note, I met a lot of debunker claim to be supported by science, but surprisingly lack of scientific reference/evidence. They use play of word. When provided with real scientific evidence, they make excuse. I rarely see debunker accept the scientific reference as it is.

So for chemtrails believer out there, study the science, not the geoengineering one, but the contrails cirrus one. Do not avoid science, learn it! You will find that science have a great concern for contrails and many theory circulating in chemtrails debunker group are wrong.
I can only agree with that. Good luck getting them to watch anything to do with science though. For one most chemtrail believers haven't got a clue what science actually is or how it works. And scientific explanations usually don't have spooky music or passionate people screaming at the sky, so they're too boring to watch/read.



Quote:
I think it is already clear from this quote:
"The high sulfur engine, representing most jet engines on modern commercial aircraft, produced a contrail that lasted through a larger range of temperatures and formed faster out of the engine."

If they add more sulfur, it is possible for trails to form at warmer termperature.


You talk as if the water that made contrails was made entirely from the fuel.
That wasn't the impression I intended to leave. Of course contrails are also made up water that's already present in the air, which has to be in a state of saturation or supersaturation for persistent contrails to form in the first place.

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Let me remind you that most of the water is not from the jet engine exhaust:
http://web.archive.org/web/201110171...u/science.html
"Persistent contrails are ice clouds, so they are mostly made of ice. They also are likely to contain aircraft exhaust products (including soot and dissolved gases like sulfur dioxide) , but they are overwhelmingly made from moisture condensed out of the surrounding air.

The water vapor from the engine is very very small compared to the water absorbed/robbed from its surrounding.
Yes we've been through that... we're going in circles. It's interesting research, and it'd be nice if someone came up with a solution. But it's not what the chemtrails topic is about. Calling pollution 'chemtrails' is moving the goalpost, and a way to try to validate a term that is otherwise nonsensical.


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Also the warming effect, how come people dare to think that contrails is as harmless as human breath?:
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-ar...ead.main?id=85
"The terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 was the aforementioned event, and it was likely to have excited meteorological researchers involved in contrail impact studies. The national airspace was shut down for three days, something that had not yet occurred since the jet age began in the 1960s and is not likely to occur ever again. Scientists took advantage of this unique three day period in history that lacked contrails. What they learned was shocking and is enough evidence to effectively silence any counterargument to their case.... “September 11 – 14, 2001 had the biggest diurnal temperature range of any three-day period in the past 30 years,” said Andrew M. Carleton1. Not in three decades had there been such a large temperature spread between the daytime highs and the nighttime lows.... This is evidence that contrails do alter the climate of the land they drift above."
Well the problem is that there's no consensus about that. Here's a quote from an article in Nature:

Two studies noted that when planes stopped flying on 11–14 September 2001, the average daily temperature range in the United States rose markedly, exceeding the three-day periods before and after by an average of 1.8 °C. The unusual size of the shift, says David Travis of the University of Wisconsin–Whitewater, who led both of the earlier studies, implied that an absence of contrails gave the temperature range a significant boost. But that idea, he says, was "more like a hypothesis" than a firm conclusion.

Research led by Gang Hong, an atmospheric scientist at Texas A&M University in College Station, now suggests that this hypothesis is wrong3. Examining patterns of cloud cover and temperature in early September at US weather stations from 1971 to 2001, Hong and his colleagues found that thicker, low clouds are the dominant influence on temperature extremes, whereas high clouds such as contrails have a minor effect at most. They add that the 2001 temperature swings seem to be within the range of natural variability over those decades.

Hong's work doesn't prove that the contrails have no effect on temperature, just that they are unlikely to have a major role, says Ulrich Schumann, director of the Institute of Atmospheric Physics at the German Aerospace Center in Oberpfaffenhofen, near Munich.

But that contrail effect, Schumann cautions, has been exaggerated in public discussions because the events of 2001 were so shocking. "Some not very good scientific arguments were misused," he says


In this study: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...8GL036108/full

he concludes:

[11] We conclude that the increase of the diurnal temperature range over the United States during the three-day grounding period of 11–14 September 2001 cannot be attributed to the absence of contrails. While missing contrails may have affected the DTR, their impact is probably too small to detect with a statistical significance. The variations in high cloud cover, including contrails and contrail-induced cirrus clouds, contribute weakly to the changes in the diurnal temperature range, which is governed primarily by lower altitude clouds, winds, and humidity.

So while I think we should look into the effect of contrails on weather and climate, I think we should be careful to draw conclusions too hastily.

Last edited by payt69; 31-10-2014 at 03:18 AM.
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Old 31-10-2014, 11:41 PM   #742
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Have a lot of similarity = similar. Have a lot of dissimilarity, have some similarity = not similar.

But the question still remain, why denier think contrails is harmless?

It is good to see you learning. It is very rare for a denier to use reference.

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Examining patterns of cloud cover and temperature in early September at US weather stations from 1971 to 2001, Hong and his colleagues found that thicker, low clouds are the dominant influence on temperature extremes, whereas high clouds such as contrails have a minor effect at most. They add that the 2001 temperature swings seem to be within the range of natural variability over those decades.
Now that is interesting, because I have personally witness many times the trails eliminate low clouds .
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Last edited by sucahyo; 31-10-2014 at 11:42 PM.
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Old 01-11-2014, 04:58 AM   #743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sucahyo View Post
Have a lot of similarity = similar. Have a lot of dissimilarity, have some similarity = not similar.

But the question still remain, why denier think contrails is harmless?
You and your deniers.. lol.. They must be haunting your dreams

Personally I see no reason to think they're harmful. They've been around for as long as I live, and we get quite a few contrails up there. Still the weather around here remains typically Dutch, and no big influence is noticable.

As far as science.. well the debate is still going on.

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It is good to see you learning. It is very rare for a denier to use reference.
That's kind fo Ironic, since when it comes to 'chemtrails', the only ones I ever see making use of any credible references at all are skeptics. But then you're not a regular chemtrail pusher

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Now that is interesting, because I have personally witness many times the trails eliminate low clouds .
Trails eliminiating low clouds? Just the other day we had a situation in which there were several layers of clouds happening at the same time. The upper layer consisted of some cirrus and persisting contrails, while the lower was just some cumulus clouds, about 40% overcast I think.

They seem to coexist just fine. I don't see how that upper layer could be doing anything to 'rob' the lower layer of it's H2O. Contrails use whatever is available on a local level in air thats saturated or supersaturated anyway, but not from whatever clouds may be happening miles below.
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Old 03-11-2014, 12:24 AM   #744
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I wish I have time lapse camera to record how trails eliminate potential rain. I hope everyone can observe personally too. They may co exist in a photo, but you should see which one will dominate few minutes later. So, most of dozens of trails photo rarely show nimbus (the lowest clouds).

My continuous warning against people who try to bust clouds with cloud buster / orgonite is to never bust the nimbus and make sure to convert the cirrus into nimbus.

Something like this:


The above picture is an example of my effort trying to clean the sky from cirrus. Sorry for the bad quality. The sky is intially full of patterned clouds. After I put the device on top of the ground, the cirrus start to clear up. A thick trails "coincindentally" showed up / passed right at the center of the hole. After the cirrus clearing up, the lone trails become clearly visible. the trails last for few minutes. Then after that the nimbus start to showed up. The town do not receive rain for a few months at that time, and it was supposed to be a rainy season, a good thing that rain was fall down few hours later.

I do not know what reason that the trails choose that spot when it can choose to pass anywhere else. That trails became the only trails in the sky when the patterned cirrus cleared up.


Bellow is a good example of denier that do not realize science actually deny their statement, Mick West, owner of Metabunk and contrailscience.
http://www.thetruthdenied.com/news/2...ease-be-aware/

He claim that: "The large amount of aerosols in the exhaust does change the properties of contrails, but it is not required."

In that article you will see how he twist word.

I have post many link indicating that the aerosol play a great role in contrails creation. You can see for yourself how the denier repeatedly denying (pretent to forget?) the science.
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Old 24-11-2014, 02:16 PM   #745
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Thought I would share some decent pictures with everyone, taken a few moments ago at Scotch Corner which is the highest point on the Vale of York.







This is interesting, as I was taking this one what seemed to be an air burst showed itself, which persisted for over fifteen minutes, it was not a lens flare, it was in the sky itself.



Holiday inn at Scotch Corner, these trails are running exactly North/South.

Nearby is the Durham Tees Valley airport, which did not produce any trails within this collection.

Last edited by the apprentice; 24-11-2014 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 24-11-2014, 02:38 PM   #746
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A nice example of a sun-dog. You're right, it was in the sky and not a lens flare.

Sun-dogs sometimes have rainbow colours spreading from one side, but your photo doesn't show any.

Thanks for posting.

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Old 24-11-2014, 02:58 PM   #747
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Originally Posted by thermion View Post
A nice example of a sun-dog. You're right, it was in the sky and not a lens flare.

Sun-dogs sometimes have rainbow colours spreading from one side, but your photo doesn't show any.

Thanks for posting.

thermion
Here you go, the colours were amazing and ran along the trail itself.

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Old 04-12-2014, 05:51 AM   #748
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Lots of chemtrails here in Seattle the last several days

Good vid here of chemtrails in Maryland:

Chemtrail WeatherShare -- 11/30/14 -- Joppa, Maryland

http://youtu.be/cU063FQydGs?list=UU-...lTNOx5UzGFkVDQ

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Old 08-12-2014, 09:54 PM   #749
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Chemtrail WeatherShare #2 -- 12/07/14 -- Las Vegas, Nevada


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKv7...lTNOx5UzGFkVDQ



Weather share #2
Check this article out:
C-130 aircraft caught dropping massive ‘raindrop shaped fibers’ onto populace, lab tests confirm “metals”


https://www.intellihub.com/c-130-air...ed-experiment/
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Old 05-02-2015, 07:32 AM   #750
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Forbiddenknowledgetv has videos showing chemtrails are coal ash. google

The videos say the billionaries who want to get rid of the coal ash waste think people are bugs and need to be sprayed with heavy metal pesticides.

The bible talks about swarms of locusts covering the earth, some speculate the chemtrails are the locusts. Not sure.

People are people, some may be covered in more soot than others.

I have met good people covered with soot, and bad people who were not covered with soot.

There are good billionaires and bad billionaires.

Solar electric, cars and plants that run on water, are answers, so is individual responsibility.

Things improve as each individual improves in their own consciousness.

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Old 05-02-2015, 09:03 AM   #751
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This coal ash chemtrails story has emerged recently it seems. But wouldn't coal ash screw up jet engines like the volcanic ash that grounded all planes over Europe a few years ago? It wouldn't need to be dense as most of the volcanic ash wasn't dense.

If it's dispersed all over the atmosphere at cruising height it will inevitably be sucked into the engines. Even if it is released above or below cruising height atmospheric mixing means it will inevitably be present at that altitude.

That strongly suggests it will leave tell-tail signs or even damage in the engines after months or years of engine ingestion. And no one has spotted this yet?

Seems unlikely, unless someone here who works or knows someone who works on jet-engine maintenance can explain...

thermion

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Old 07-02-2015, 10:38 AM   #752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by super glue View Post
Thought I would share some decent pictures with everyone, taken a few moments ago at Scotch Corner which is the highest point on the Vale of York.







This is interesting, as I was taking this one what seemed to be an air burst showed itself, which persisted for over fifteen minutes, it was not a lens flare, it was in the sky itself.



Holiday inn at Scotch Corner, these trails are running exactly North/South.

Nearby is the Durham Tees Valley airport, which did not produce any trails within this collection.
dude i was driving from doncaster to scotland last year via scotch corner, and saw one of the phoney chem clouds in the shape of a swastika, no shit.
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Old 02-03-2015, 02:01 PM   #753
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Tyumen Russia

02.03.2015


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Old 03-03-2015, 03:47 PM   #754
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dude i was driving from doncaster to scotland last year via scotch corner, and saw one of the phoney chem clouds in the shape of a swastika, no shit.
Pity you never snapped that one, it would have gone well in the library of trails which is building up today.
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Old 12-04-2015, 10:59 AM   #755
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Talk about in your face....Pulled this pic of Loftus Road off today's bbcsport website....

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Old 09-05-2015, 05:33 PM   #756
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Hello you,
since there is a free research group here in Germany . Here is the following result :
Frightening results

The results of the individual samples are strikingly similar. They have all been documented and could be compared with other samples from North America and Europe:

• Barium
• aluminum
• Titan
• Magnesium and
• ethylene dibromide (dibromoethane)

According to these studies are the essential components of chemtrails.

Barium salts have been used in various wars

During Desert Storm aerosols barium aircraft were sprayed over Libya with the aim of making the people sick and weak.

One Bariumvergiftung follow flu and colds

Bariumvergiftung has a worse dimensions on the organism, as poisoning by lead, because barium attacks the lungs. If the Srühnebel sold in large quantities over an area, so a lot of flu symptoms, to pneumonia are registered in the affected population within a few days. Barium salts are therefore considered to be very harmful.

Aluminium is traded as a cause dementia and Alzheimer

Aluminium, however caused extreme neurological disorders such as dementia, uncontrollable spasms, Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. These disorders can occur if the population is exposed over a longer period of an aluminum load.

Neurotoxins from the air

In the US or dibromoethane EDB was banned many years ago as components of fuels for automobiles and airplanes. Nevertheless, it can be found in samples of chemtrail residues repeatedly. Frequently, it is also used as a main component of insecticides. Through breathing, the neurotoxin is taken up and enriched view of the body. Dibromoethane is highly carcinogenic. It is classified as highly toxic.

Contaminated drinking water

The minimal size of the particles, it is possible that these toxic substances are inhaled not only unnoticed, but also on the soil into groundwater and thus also get into our drinking water. The toxins can be deposited in the soil and groundwater. In areas where strong chemtrailing was observed a significant deterioration in the water quality and, consequently, a striking exposure of plants was observed
The health problems are increasing

In recent years, the lung dysfunction recorded the cause of death in the United States a sharp increase: from an initial one-eighth are now already a quarter of the citizens affected. Other anomalies were observed that could also be attributable to the effects of chemtrails. These include dried blood cells that have been revived under the influence of certain bacteria or viruses. Clifford Carnicom has scientific papers on these subjects. If you are interested, you can visit his website.

Go with closed eyes through the world

Several independent journalists and researchers examined the possibility that any sinister motives could be hidden behind it. In this context, the following questions arose:

• Why do not recognize citizens the changes in the sky?
• Why the politicians are not prompted to take action against this mass poisoning?
• Why are health and environmental authorities fight it, to take the problem seriously chemtrails?
• Why do not support politicians concerned citizens?

The military in Germany confirmed the existence of chemtrails

In September 2007, the ZDF reported critically on the emergence of chemtrails. A meteorologist told of the formation of strange clouds which he had seen in the sky. These clouds could be formed quickly and without the necessary climatic conditions. These strange Cloudscape can be seen today in the daily weather reports. So recently a high above all Germany was even described - the sky was cloudy but strong everywhere. HIGH represents a not actually that the sky is not cloudy ...?
Here the link : http://www.zentrum-der-gesundheit.de...lation-ia.html
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Old 09-06-2015, 03:03 AM   #757
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Excellent post, beatrix.

Thank you for this valuable information. I have bookmarked it for reference.

I hope you'll stay and become part of this forum.

Love to you....
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Old 10-06-2015, 01:43 PM   #758
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Spray day here in Birmingham(UK) today. I counted 6 individual trails as I stepped out my front door and even more on my journey.

I feel like screaming at people to LOOK UP!
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Old 11-06-2015, 10:49 AM   #759
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google OPERATION INDIGO SKYFOLD . Whistleblower accounts of chemtrail spraying.
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Old 17-08-2015, 10:25 AM   #760
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warning!!! massive chemtrailing today!!
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