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Old 27-06-2011, 07:49 PM   #361
gladys
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well you've made an entire rant and failed to address my question. congratulations.
I have addressed your question. My post is self-evident.

Is that the best you can do?
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Old 27-06-2011, 08:37 PM   #362
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Ha ha ha ha.........are you seriously this ignorant?
Yes, he and the other shill beating on this dead horse of a post are seriously that ignorant and lacking in all common sense.

The very idea that the quality of our food has nothing to do with our health and physiology is utterly ludicrous and just plain stupid. It's as if we don't really need any vitamins, minerals, and trace elements to be healthy human beings and instead can live off of nothing but swamp water and cardboard. But if you do want to venture into the unknown and actually buy one of those things they call vegetables from a real actual grocery store, well shucks, go ahead and get the cheapest, pesticide-coated, genetically engineered piece of garbage they have on the shelf. Because after all, their authority figures, you know, those high stature men in their fancy suits and Italian wingtips, say its all safe and perfectly adequate.

Oh yeah, they want you to give statistics for everything because they have no understanding of common sense and the real world, instead relying on corporate big wigs and lobbyists to tell them the God's honest truth. LOL!!! Never mind that we can see with our own eyes the physiological and cognitive decline that besets people who consume the products these companies dish out. Never mind that the very companies and industries they are on here defending daily have been caught innumerable times defrauding the public and compromising public safety in lieu of the almighty dollar and political power. Never mind that these same guilty companies conspire with our political leaders to establish their executives as heads of the same govt agencies that are charged with protecting us from the very kind of predation and fraud that they are so keen on continuing.

No, it's not up to the drug companies and food companies to prove to us that their products are safe, it's supposed to be up to us to prove otherwise before they stick that needle in our arm. As if that idea wasn't ridiculous enough, we're supposed to make informed decisions when ingredients and information is intentionally withheld from us. They have no statistics, no test data, no studies, nothing to affirm what their Leaders say about the safety and efficacy of their toxic drugs and vaccines other than the words of those same Leaders. We just have to take their word for it because they wear white lab coats. One has to wonder, what Rule of Acquisition did that come from?

Maybe I have been wrong all along and this isn't Earth, it's the Ferengi home world and I'm supposed to be worshiping the Grand Negas.

.
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Old 27-06-2011, 08:57 PM   #363
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Yes, he and the other shill beating on this dead horse of a post are seriously that ignorant and lacking in all common sense.

The very idea that the quality of our food has nothing to do with our health and physiology is utterly ludicrous and just plain stupid. It's as if we don't really need any vitamins, minerals, and trace elements to be healthy human beings and instead can live off of nothing but swamp water and cardboard. But if you do want to venture into the unknown and actually buy one of those things they call vegetables from a real actual grocery store, well shucks, go ahead and get the cheapest, pesticide-coated, genetically engineered piece of garbage they have on the shelf. Because after all, their authority figures, you know, those high stature men in their fancy suits and Italian wingtips, say its all safe and perfectly adequate.

Oh yeah, they want you to give statistics for everything because they have no understanding of common sense and the real world, instead relying on corporate big wigs and lobbyists to tell them the God's honest truth. LOL!!! Never mind that we can see with our own eyes the physiological and cognitive decline that besets people who consume the products these companies dish out. Never mind that the very companies and industries they are on here defending daily have been caught innumerable times defrauding the public and compromising public safety in lieu of the almighty dollar and political power. Never mind that these same guilty companies conspire with our political leaders to establish their executives as heads of the same govt agencies that are charged with protecting us from the very kind of predation and fraud that they are so keen on continuing.

No, it's not up to the drug companies and food companies to prove to us that their products are safe, it's supposed to be up to us to prove otherwise before they stick that needle in our arm. As if that idea wasn't ridiculous enough, we're supposed to make informed decisions when ingredients and information is intentionally withheld from us. They have no statistics, no test data, no studies, nothing to affirm what their Leaders say about the safety and efficacy of their toxic drugs and vaccines other than the words of those same Leaders. We just have to take their word for it because they wear white lab coats. One has to wonder, what Rule of Acquisition did that come from?

Maybe I have been wrong all along and this isn't Earth, it's the Ferengi home world and I'm supposed to be worshiping the Grand Negas.

.
Well said.

Motlyhoo i love ya mate!

(btw, thanks for the vote of confidence on the bible-bashing 'the truth movements real agenda' thread).
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Old 27-06-2011, 09:22 PM   #364
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Motley I didn't say fruit and vegetables don't have and impact on the body, they do. Eating healthily is very important. You've done a bang up job of not understanding what I said, so I'll say it more explicitly

What effect do fruit and vegetables have on the immune system. Y'know, CD4, CD8, macrophages, immunoglobulins, that stuff?

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Originally Posted by motleyhoo View Post
Oh yeah, they want you to give statistics for everything because they have no understanding of common sense and the real world, instead relying on corporate big wigs and lobbyists to tell them the God's honest truth. LOL!!! Never mind that we can see with our own eyes the physiological and cognitive decline that besets people who consume the products these companies dish out. Never mind that the very companies and industries they are on here defending daily have been caught innumerable times defrauding the public and compromising public safety in lieu of the almighty dollar and political power.
Yeah, let's just toss science and evidence to the wind, what we should use is good ol' fashioned hokey 'common sense', that nebulous, non-existent entity that gives one carte blanche to say or do whatever they want. Let's just confuse correlation with causation, fall victim to confirmation bias and all that other shit, because the big world of science is too scary isn't it?

Quote:
No, it's not up to the drug companies and food companies to prove to us that their products are safe, it's supposed to be up to us to prove otherwise before they stick that needle in our arm. As if that idea wasn't ridiculous enough, we're supposed to make informed decisions when ingredients and information is intentionally withheld from us. They have no statistics, no test data, no studies, nothing to affirm what their Leaders say about the safety and efficacy of their toxic drugs and vaccines other than the words of those same Leaders. We just have to take their word for it because they wear white lab coats.
.
This is the same tired rant you've done a thousand times. When treatments are made, reasonable assessments are made to ensure they aren't harmful. You can't expect every possible combination of events to be tested for, it's impossible. If you give an average healthy person a vaccine, they will not react badly. They might get a bit of inflammation around the wound, maybe some muscle pain, but it won't be a severe reaction. There have been more studies than should be necessary to show that vaccination doesn't cause autism or anything like that. Once a treatment has been shown to be reasonably safe, it falls to those claiming they do harm to supply evidence.
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Originally Posted by 21_12_2012
Let's try throwing maths and science down the bog, this is the Icke forum.
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Old 27-06-2011, 09:50 PM   #365
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Motley I didn't say fruit and vegetables don't have and impact on the body, they do. Eating healthily is very important. You've done a bang up job of not understanding what I said, so I'll say it more explicitly

What effect do fruit and vegetables have on the immune system. Y'know, CD4, CD8, macrophages, immunoglobulins, that stuff?



Yeah, let's just toss science and evidence to the wind, what we should use is good ol' fashioned hokey 'common sense', that nebulous, non-existent entity that gives one carte blanche to say or do whatever they want. Let's just confuse correlation with causation, fall victim to confirmation bias and all that other shit, because the big world of science is too scary isn't it?



This is the same tired rant you've done a thousand times. When treatments are made, reasonable assessments are made to ensure they aren't harmful. You can't expect every possible combination of events to be tested for, it's impossible. If you give an average healthy person a vaccine, they will not react badly. They might get a bit of inflammation around the wound, maybe some muscle pain, but it won't be a severe reaction. There have been more studies than should be necessary to show that vaccination doesn't cause autism or anything like that. Once a treatment has been shown to be reasonably safe, it falls to those claiming they do harm to supply evidence.
Winegums, you're f*****g hilarious!

Ever tried 'stand up' with this routine????
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Old 27-06-2011, 10:08 PM   #366
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Ha ha ha ha.........are you seriously this ignorant?

Let me make one thing clear whinegums, not only did i survive cancer but i healed an irreparably (according to my oncologist) damaged thyroid gland and a seriously compromised immune system with alternative medicine and a healthy diet.

I went through the archaic "slash, burn and poison" (go figure) treatment only to end up with a fried thyroid gland and no spleen. As a result of which not only was i supposed to be on 'thyroxine' for life, but i am also supposed to have regular 'pneumovax' and 'swine flu' injections.

I have relied on nothing but alternative medicine and a healthy diet. My thyroid gland has been functioning healthily for over 25 yrs and the health of my immune system is such that i rarely catch cold and have never (to the best of my knowledge) had the 'flu.

It beggars the question what state my thyroid gland and my immune system would be in now had i relied on conventional medicine (and indeed my whole body for that matter).

AND i have been cancer free for over 25 yrs (even though i was told that a re-occurrence was highly likely).

Anyway......aren't you neglecting the "bicarb of soda and cancer" thread?
Please feel free to dissect my rant with your ridiculous, fractured logic, winegums.

I've got so much more to tell you
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Old 27-06-2011, 11:35 PM   #367
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The fluxuations in reubella are minor, and it may be that it's less communable than mumps, measles. I guess you'd have to ask an immunologist/virologist/epidemiologist. The tenfold increase in the other two, cannot be explained by such

Hmm, so going from 3922 cases of rubella in 1996 to just 12 cases last year is just a 'minor fluctuation' which doesn't flatly contradict your lower vaccination rate/ higher illness rate hypothesis?


the 'less comunable' explanation you offered also doesn't make sense,
if it is harder to transmit, why in pre-wakefield 1996, when vaccination levels were high, were there thousands of cases of rubella?
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Old 28-06-2011, 08:50 PM   #368
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Motley I didn't say fruit and vegetables don't have and impact on the body, they do. Eating healthily is very important. You've done a bang up job of not understanding what I said, so I'll say it more explicitly

What effect do fruit and vegetables have on the immune system. Y'know, CD4, CD8, macrophages, immunoglobulins, that stuff?



Yeah, let's just toss science and evidence to the wind, what we should use is good ol' fashioned hokey 'common sense', that nebulous, non-existent entity that gives one carte blanche to say or do whatever they want. Let's just confuse correlation with causation, fall victim to confirmation bias and all that other shit, because the big world of science is too scary isn't it?
You already tossed science and evidence to the wind when you chose to listen to your Gucci-shod masters instead of opening your mind and taking a good long look at what they're selling. The game they have played on you and yours has been going on since the first con man and sucker were born. Oh yeah, they seem to have statistics. On the other hand, they have been caught lying again and again, and over and over again their statistics have turned out to be falsified or doctored. They have some real slick looking marketing material, and they sure do look official-like draped in those name-embroidered lab coats and all. On the other hand, this is exactly the same game the snake oil salesmen have been using to hook suckers for thousands of years. We wouldn't want to think for ourselves or use any of that crazy common sense. Why, it's a whole lot easier to just hand all of our power over to someone else and let them do our thinking for us. Why, self-empowerment through intellectual curiosity, that's just nothing but nonsense.

Now, if you're actually serious about learning something new about the immune system, you can start by reading Dr. John Apsley's lecture on The Four Pillars. I've told you about this at least once before and obviously you didn't read up.

That should lead you to Dr. Gilbert Ling's theory of cell biology and how our cells exist in a colloidal state.

If you read carefully and with anything resembling an open mind, it should take you about 2 solid weeks to get through all the material. Yes, there is that much there, it's technical, hard to get through, but well worth it.

Putting those two things together should give you all you ever need to know about what, how, and why nutrients affect every cell in our body, including our immune systems, and where those nutrients come from. If that leads you to learn something about soil science, because it should, then you have made a successful journey.

The reason I responded to you the way I did was because your very question insinuated that you believe nutrition has no affect on the immune system, otherwise why ask a question like that other than to poke thorns at someone.

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This is the same tired rant you've done a thousand times. When treatments are made, reasonable assessments are made to ensure they aren't harmful. You can't expect every possible combination of events to be tested for, it's impossible. If you give an average healthy person a vaccine, they will not react badly. They might get a bit of inflammation around the wound, maybe some muscle pain, but it won't be a severe reaction. There have been more studies than should be necessary to show that vaccination doesn't cause autism or anything like that. Once a treatment has been shown to be reasonably safe, it falls to those claiming they do harm to supply evidence.
No, this is the same crock of crap that you shills and skeptics constantly squawk like rabid magpies when presented with real life and common sense. The FACT (you do know what a fact is??) remains that every major drug company has been caught red-handed and blatantly committing fraud, many of them multiple times per year and going back years. We're not talking about the kind of fraud here that results in your shoe coming untied. We're talking about thousands of deaths and thousands of people being permanently maimed as a result of the fraud and the pervasive cronyism that currently infects the way these companies do business and the complete breakdown of our oversight and public safety because of cronyism, the buying of media power, and downright criminality. Until these problems are corrected, until real people can be held accountable for their crimes, and until we can unhook the media from its incestuous relationship with drug company advertising dollars, these companies and their products cannot be trusted, nor can anything they say be trusted. You can dispute that and call it a "rant" until you are Blue in the face and it won't change these facts one iota. Or you can do what you always do and trivialize the problems as if they are uncommon and only hurt a few people, while siting unsubstantiated studies done by these same fraudulent corporations that no longer have any meaningful oversight. How many times do these companies have to lie, falsify data, and conceal information before you start to get it??? Exactly how many people have to die before it is no longer an acceptable risk? Please give us a number.

If you knew a particular restaurant had recurring food poisoning problems, and that many people had gotten sick or died, would you eat there? Then why would you line up to get your bloodstream injected with unknown, unlabeled chemicals from the same company that fraudulently put Vioxx on the market, which subsequently killed approximately 50,000 people (as estimated by the FDA), and knowing that the same people are still there, still in charge, and still doing business as usual? How many more examples like this do you need, because the record is filled with dozens and dozens of cases like Vioxx.

There's one of two possible truths going on. Either you're right and these companies can be trusted, because the things they have done are just minor structural problems and acceptable accidents, or there's what is really going on. How big of you to call such questioning a "rant".

.
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Old 28-06-2011, 10:50 PM   #369
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You already tossed science and evidence to the wind when you chose to listen to your Gucci-shod masters instead of opening your mind and taking a good long look at what they're selling. The game they have played on you and yours has been going on since the first con man and sucker were born. Oh yeah, they seem to have statistics. On the other hand, they have been caught lying again and again, and over and over again their statistics have turned out to be falsified or doctored. They have some real slick looking marketing material, and they sure do look official-like draped in those name-embroidered lab coats and all. On the other hand, this is exactly the same game the snake oil salesmen have been using to hook suckers for thousands of years. We wouldn't want to think for ourselves or use any of that crazy common sense. Why, it's a whole lot easier to just hand all of our power over to someone else and let them do our thinking for us. Why, self-empowerment through intellectual curiosity, that's just nothing but nonsense.
Thinking for yourself is key, but I don't think you're doing that. I think you're parroting a "them vs us" agenda.

Quote:
Now, if you're actually serious about learning something new about the immune system, you can start by reading Dr. John Apsley's lecture on The Four Pillars. I've told you about this at least once before and obviously you didn't read up.

That should lead you to Dr. Gilbert Ling's theory of cell biology and how our cells exist in a colloidal state.

If you read carefully and with anything resembling an open mind, it should take you about 2 solid weeks to get through all the material. Yes, there is that much there, it's technical, hard to get through, but well worth it.

Putting those two things together should give you all you ever need to know about what, how, and why nutrients affect every cell in our body, including our immune systems, and where those nutrients come from. If that leads you to learn something about soil science, because it should, then you have made a successful journey.
So, you talk about thinking independantly, then tell me to go read these two books.

Do you lack the intellectual fidelity to realise there are different people in mainstream medicine? That it's not just merck sales reps, but tens of thousands of biochemical researchers, doctors, etc? All working for different research groups and foundations?

What do you think is more likely - that two individuals are correct, or thousands of other scientists, and hundreds of thousands of research projects are?

Do you consider the biology community totally adverse to learning new things, and stoic in its stance? Do you think they'd ignore something paradigm-shifting out of some strange arrogance?

"Go read this book" is basically a logical fallacy unto itself. If you can't explain the theory, maybe you don't understand it?

Quote:
The reason I responded to you the way I did was because your very question insinuated that you believe nutrition has no affect on the immune system, otherwise why ask a question like that other than to poke thorns at someone.
I never said it had no effect, a poor diet can cause deficiency which can cause various problems, but you can't eat certain things to "super charge" your immune system (why would you even want to!?)

Quote:
No, this is the same crock of crap that you shills and skeptics constantly squawk like rabid magpies when presented with real life and common sense. The FACT (you do know what a fact is??) remains that every major drug company has been caught red-handed and blatantly committing fraud, many of them multiple times per year and going back years. We're not talking about the kind of fraud here that results in your shoe coming untied. We're talking about thousands of deaths and thousands of people being permanently maimed as a result of the fraud and the pervasive cronyism that currently infects the way these companies do business and the complete breakdown of our oversight and public safety because of cronyism, the buying of media power, and downright criminality. Until these problems are corrected, until real people can be held accountable for their crimes, and until we can unhook the media from its incestuous relationship with drug company advertising dollars, these companies and their products cannot be trusted, nor can anything they say be trusted. You can dispute that and call it a "rant" until you are Blue in the face and it won't change these facts one iota. Or you can do what you always do and trivialize the problems as if they are uncommon and only hurt a few people, while siting unsubstantiated studies done by these same fraudulent corporations that no longer have any meaningful oversight. How many times do these companies have to lie, falsify data, and conceal information before you start to get it??? Exactly how many people have to die before it is no longer an acceptable risk? Please give us a number.
Again, I advise you to learn a bit about how research is conducted. It isn't just things being spewed out of big pharma inc, there are so many different research groups with varied funding, aims, etc. Furthermore, just think about what you're suggesting - that thousands of researchers are voluntarily lying. And not the big wigs in the aforementioned gucci shoes, the research fellows on £40k a year. Do you have such little faith in humanity that you think so many would risk their careers, and allow their work to be misrepresented to the detriment of the health of humanity?

Quote:
If you knew a particular restaurant had recurring food poisoning problems, and that many people had gotten sick or died, would you eat there? Then why would you line up to get your bloodstream injected with unknown, unlabeled chemicals from the same company that fraudulently put Vioxx on the market, which subsequently killed approximately 50,000 people (as estimated by the FDA), and knowing that the same people are still there, still in charge, and still doing business as usual? How many more examples like this do you need, because the record is filled with dozens and dozens of cases like Vioxx.
The Vioxx thing was awful. Again, you seem to be under the mistaken belief that I will blindly accept whatever drug companies spit out. I've got a more nuanced opinion than that. If the research is verified independently, then it's fine.

Quote:
There's one of two possible truths going on. Either you're right and these companies can be trusted, because the things they have done are just minor structural problems and acceptable accidents, or there's what is really going on. How big of you to call such questioning a "rant".
.
There are big problems with how things are at the moment. Drug companies are profit-driven, and the easiest way to make profits is to do big marketing. There are problems with trial registration and bad data being buried.

However, we're not talking about that. We're talking about the immune system and your curious beliefs about it. As i've said, it's not just a venn diagram of "big pharma and all 'mainstream' researchers" in the circle and "independent free thinking gods" outside it. Plenty of people in legitimate mainstream research are critical of drugs companies.

So,

What effect do fruit and vegetables have on the immune system. Y'know, CD4, CD8, macrophages, immunoglobulins, that stuff?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21_12_2012
Let's try throwing maths and science down the bog, this is the Icke forum.
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Old 29-06-2011, 09:12 AM   #370
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Really? They have evidence that it was the MMR? They'd be the first (putting two and two together eh)



[citation needed]



You realise every single second of every day, your immune system is fighting millions of 'assaults'? Even babies are. The point of the vaccine is it's better to fight a scrap against a weakened virus and being prepared, than being steamrolled by its big brother.

We as humans need to go through the disease processes in order to build our immunity naturally and so be it if natural selection occursIn that case go to a proper Homeopathic Dr and by pass vaccines just as effective and actually better,even Prince Charles uses Homeopathy on his organic cattle.
Intramuscular is dangerous in itself and bloody painful.
it by-passes digestive processes and stays in tissues/body for years with added poisons of synthetic nature. It is a bombardment of a tiny body and it has even been said that vaccines don't work-end of-but sorry if i cannot recall where and who said it,it was the flu vaccines though. A 14yr old girl in the East Midlands died from a swine flu vaccine so don't tell me vaccines aren't dangerous...they put diseases into you.


If i survive a car crash without wearing a seatbelt, should everyone not bother?
Babies are being given poisons intramuscularly without their own consent..Government and it's agents cannot be trusted so why trust vaccines with so many lies.

My advice is not to have vaccines but to allow nature to take it's course because once you have had an infection such as these you are then immune as you have naturally built up your immunity
We tried that. People died, or become blind, infertile, etc. Natural selection-my son got the diseases he was vaccinated against when little so it made zilch difference and he didn't become blind after the diseases. It simply put is injecting diseases into little ones. Having had a one and only flu vaccine that made me dangerously ill back in the 80's several years later at an Immunology clinic for ME i had a series of three viral tests,this was six years after injection and guess what influenza virus was still in my system.


Please, explain what that has to do with the immune system. What do fresh foods do to it? What absolute measurements of immunity improve?[/QUOTE]

You said yourself good foods are important so as you already know why should i have to prove myself to a jerk like you who serves to belittle others.

Oh and my son had diseases he wasn't injected for so it makes one wonder exactly what is in vaccines except we all know these days as it is out there even on Wikipedia...the one he didn't have was triple MMR..thankfully my inner feelings with his allergies and infantile eczema made me question Dr and tell him i wasn't happy for them and it wasn't pushed.

Winegums what do you do for a living?

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Old 30-06-2011, 06:43 PM   #371
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You realise every single second of every day, your immune system is fighting millions of 'assaults'? Even babies are. The point of the vaccine is it's better to fight a scrap against a weakened virus and being prepared, than being steamrolled by its big brother.
But these assaults have to enter our bodies through a myriad of defense systems such as olfactory passages, gut, and GI Tract. Our bodies have already begun to fight them even before our immune systems are brought into action and long before they ever make it to our bloodstream. The very notion of a vaccine is to completely bypass all of these defenses and inject genetically engineered material, mostly made of primate or swine DNA, directly into the bloodstream. It takes a certain kind of naivete not to realize there is something potentially very dangerous with doing that, especially to infants, and especially when these same injections contain all manner of heavy metals and "preservatives".

If Hepatitis B is almost always communicated through sexual contact or using dirty needles, and there is virtually no history of children contracting this disease, then why on Earth do babies have to receive vaccinations for it within hours of birth? If you can answer that the way I know you will, and with a straight face then you are truly insane and insensitive.

You see, with you shills, it isn't really about public safety, it's about commanding your will over other people like they were your own personal goats to herd around and do with as you please. The kind of callousness it takes to do what you people do isn't mind-boggling once you accept the fact that there really are evil people in the world, some of them so vile as to be experimenting on infants of their own species.

.
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Old 30-06-2011, 07:05 PM   #372
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Thinking for yourself is key, but I don't think you're doing that. I think you're parroting a "them vs us" agenda.
The only person parroting here is you, because once again you have failed to come up with any defense against the breakdown that has occurred with respect to the FDA and oversight and the increasing amount of fraud and cronyism that is happening. You simply have no answer for it, and to say something like "Well, we all know there are problems, but the good outweighs the bad" is a disingenuous cop out.


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Originally Posted by winegums View Post
So, you talk about thinking independantly, then tell me to go read these two books.

Do you lack the intellectual fidelity to realise there are different people in mainstream medicine? That it's not just merck sales reps, but tens of thousands of biochemical researchers, doctors, etc? All working for different research groups and foundations?

What do you think is more likely - that two individuals are correct, or thousands of other scientists, and hundreds of thousands of research projects are?

Do you consider the biology community totally adverse to learning new things, and stoic in its stance? Do you think they'd ignore something paradigm-shifting out of some strange arrogance?

"Go read this book" is basically a logical fallacy unto itself. If you can't explain the theory, maybe you don't understand it?
So basically what you're saying is that you have no understanding of what compartmentalization is, or how it works within most corporations and institutions today to undermine the work that is being done by the people in the trenches. Or that dozens of FDA scientists have testified before congress over the last 15 years about how the politically appointed figure heads have undermined their work and gone against their recommendations time and time again and for political and opportunistic reasons.

You simply have no idea how business works today, how tight the work force is wrt the fear people have about losing their jobs, or how unempathetic corporate America has become.

Edit: By the way, the "two individuals" you speak of have compiled a vast work of research that is a culmination and correlation of work done by hundreds of other Doctors and researchers over decades of time. And since you seem so desperate to learn something about the Immune system, Dr. Apsley just happens to be one of the world's foremost researchers in Regenerative Medicine, of which the immune system is at the heart of. Gilbert Ling is likely one of the most intelligent Cell Biologists to ever walk the planet, like the Einstein of his field, and when he's gone it may be many years before we ever get another like him. That's why I presented you with their names specifically. There are a lot more out there.

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Originally Posted by winegums View Post
I never said it had no effect, a poor diet can cause deficiency which can cause various problems, but you can't eat certain things to "super charge" your immune system (why would you even want to!?)
LOL!!! Why would anyone want to boost their immune system? Seriously?

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Originally Posted by winegums View Post
Again, I advise you to learn a bit about how research is conducted. It isn't just things being spewed out of big pharma inc, there are so many different research groups with varied funding, aims, etc. Furthermore, just think about what you're suggesting - that thousands of researchers are voluntarily lying. And not the big wigs in the aforementioned gucci shoes, the research fellows on £40k a year. Do you have such little faith in humanity that you think so many would risk their careers, and allow their work to be misrepresented to the detriment of the health of humanity?
You're talking about a pie in the sky ideal that simply no longer exists. We live in a world where the FDA no longer does its own independent testing and instead leaves it up to the drug companies themselves (who have great pressure from Wall Street to produce) to produce white papers and trial data. At the same time, the major drug companies have lobbied to make the FDA fees so astronomically high that only the big corporations can even afford to go thru the process. This wasn't to increase safety it was to stifle competition.

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Originally Posted by winegums View Post
The Vioxx thing was awful. Again, you seem to be under the mistaken belief that I will blindly accept whatever drug companies spit out. I've got a more nuanced opinion than that. If the research is verified independently, then it's fine.

There are big problems with how things are at the moment. Drug companies are profit-driven, and the easiest way to make profits is to do big marketing. There are problems with trial registration and bad data being buried.

However, we're not talking about that. We're talking about the immune system and your curious beliefs about it. As i've said, it's not just a venn diagram of "big pharma and all 'mainstream' researchers" in the circle and "independent free thinking gods" outside it. Plenty of people in legitimate mainstream research are critical of drugs companies.
Yes we are talking about that. Maybe you need to go back to the original topic or start a new one. Vioxx, fraud, hiding data, cherry-picking trial subjects, cronyism, and a complete lack of accountability are exactly the problem. I ask you again, if you knew a drug company had been caught multiple times lying to the FDA, and as a result 1000s of people died on multiple occasions, would you line up to get your arm injected by their vaccines? If you said yes, then you are not right in the head. If you said no, then why do you want it forced onto tiny infants??
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Last edited by motleyhoo; 01-07-2011 at 07:00 PM.
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Old 02-07-2011, 02:48 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by motleyhoo View Post
But these assaults have to enter our bodies through a myriad of defense systems such as olfactory passages, gut, and GI Tract. Our bodies have already begun to fight them even before our immune systems are brought into action and long before they ever make it to our bloodstream.
What I'm saying is there are bugs in your blood, right now, that are being zapped. There are cells that are cancerous that are beign beaten down by the immune system. Yes you have extrinsic barriers like skin, mucous membranes, but that only stops some of the bacteria.

Quote:
If Hepatitis B is almost always communicated through sexual contact or using dirty needles, and there is virtually no history of children contracting this disease, then why on Earth do babies have to receive vaccinations for it within hours of birth? If you can answer that the way I know you will, and with a straight face then you are truly insane and insensitive.
Not too sure what you're expecting here. I'm not entirely aware of why Americans get all the vaccines they do, certainly chickenpox seems like a fairly mild virus you could just catch socially. It may be that the rate of hep b is high enough in america such that it's effective to vaccinate everyone at a young age, rather than address cases of hep b several years down the line.

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Originally Posted by motleyhoo View Post
The only person parroting here is you, because once again you have failed to come up with any defense against the breakdown that has occurred with respect to the FDA and oversight and the increasing amount of fraud and cronyism that is happening. You simply have no answer for it, and to say something like "Well, we all know there are problems, but the good outweighs the bad" is a disingenuous cop out.
So what should be done then? I take it in addition to your mastery of medicine and biochemistry you also know about macroeconomics and how to address these issues?


Quote:
So basically what you're saying is that you have no understanding of what compartmentalization is, or how it works within most corporations and institutions today to undermine the work that is being done by the people in the trenches. Or that dozens of FDA scientists have testified before congress over the last 15 years about how the politically appointed figure heads have undermined their work and gone against their recommendations time and time again and for political and opportunistic reasons.
Compartmentalisation has no bearing on research. We're not talking about teams of thousands, we're talking about teams stretchign into a dozen or so. Seriously, you should really go find out what and how research works. It's more than just watching scary videos on youtube and reading natural news.

Quote:
LOL!!! Why would anyone want to boost their immune system? Seriously?
So after reading all that stuff about your super smart immunology doctors you still don't know why this would be dangerous?

The immune system needs to stay in balance. An over-reaction to events, or over-presence of immune cells, is dangerous and causes auto-immune disorders. That is why the idea of 'boosting' your immune system is absurd.
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Originally Posted by 21_12_2012
Let's try throwing maths and science down the bog, this is the Icke forum.
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